Slashdot Mirror


RFID Will Stop Terrorists?

W33dz writes "Retailers and manufacturers around the world are enamored with the new radio frequency identification, or RFID, devices. The problem? What about when a thief or the police want to find out what you have in your house? Oddly enough, according to a Wired magazine article, the United States' largest food companies and retailers will try to win Dept of Homeland Security approval for radio identification devices by portraying the technology as an essential tool for keeping the nation's food supply safe from terrorists. This will give them blanket immunity from all law suits related to the product."

13 of 365 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Article has wrong focus by corebreech · · Score: 2, Informative

    What you describe sounds an awful lot like WozNet.

    And that would be great, provided it wasn't corrupted too, that is, that governments weren't able to hijack the system and use it to track its citizens.

  2. Ron Paul R-Texas: seeing the light by paiute · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Wired article links to Texas Rep. Ron Paul, who is opposed to the RFID idea. Republican opposed to the wishes of big business? Who is this guy? I looked at his web site and read his latest speech:
    http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec 2003/cr07 1003.htm

    (sorry about the URL - seems a space gets put in between the 7 and the 1 in cr071003)

    Anyway, who does this guy think he is, calling the Bush gang empire-building big-gummit perpetuatin' neoconservatives?

    He better watch his back out of his rear-view mirror around the two shotguns and three rifles in his pickup truck rack, the terrorist-loving pinko.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  3. Re:RFIDS are not invincible by silas_moeckel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Funny most of the RFID chips I have seen are a simple serial number imprinted at manufacture. The device goes through a fiield gets charged up and emits that data as an rf pulse.

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
  4. Re:Article has wrong focus by kableh · · Score: 2, Informative

    Right, unless it involves "suspected terrorists", then you don't even need a warrent.

    Thanks for Ashcroft, asshat. You obviously vote Republican.

  5. RFID technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just because an RFID tag was within your house doesn't necessarily mean anyone else could read it. The tag and the reader must be properly oriented and the tag signal strength is dependent on the tag size and the readers' power. Getting the right orientation from outside someone's house seems tricky.

  6. Oh how wrong you are by zapp · · Score: 5, Informative

    RFID tags cannot be reporgrammed. and they do send out signals (on request from scanner).

    RFID tags have a very small amount of READ ONLY memory on board, which is used to store their unique ID. Furthermore, the devices to not have the functionality to write to the memory, even if it was writable. So you can be sure no one will ever buy a RFID reporgrammer on Ebay, well... maybe they will, but you can be sure it's a hoax and they got ripped off.

    Secondly, they DO send out the signal. barcodes need a clear direct line of site to a scanner to be recognized. RFID tags work in a much different manner. A scanner could be put in every light post in a city to monitor the RFID tags planted in tires, and track individual cars (or general traffic patterns). Worse, due to the nature of the technology a directional antanne could be used to read an RFID tag from large distances.

    In conclusion, your comment is crap.

    --
    no comment
  7. Fourth Amendment by missing000 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Finally, isn't it legal to observe people in public places? That is the very definition of public, a place where you cannot control being observed by others. The government might as well be looking at you if ten or twenty people you don't know personally are. I'm not saying that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide, or some other silly thing. I just think expecting privacy in public is unrealistic.

    Time for a law lesson!

    The Fourth Amendment:
    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    i.e. The government is expressly forbidden from domestic spying on citizens without probable cause citing specific persons locations and evidence.

    1. Re:Fourth Amendment by Knife_Edge · · Score: 2, Informative

      Time for a you're a dick lesson. There are exceptions to this, and one of them is if evidence of a crime is in plain view of a police officer. What, did you think it was illegal for cops to look at you while you are in a public place, that they have to get a warrant with your name on it first? That would make enforcing any laws at all nearly impossible!

      How is a system that tracks your movements through a public place any different than a police officer looking at you? I think if you are in public, you are in public, period.

      Listen, I also think the technology to make this a reality does not exist, so don't worry about it.

  8. Re:Great... You Want Chips With That? by Catbeller · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, they would work from your gut. The strength of the signal is not dependent on the chip, but rather the raw power of the exterior detector. The chip merely modulates the incoming signal before it "echoes" it. Using a powerful enough detector, they could probably track you from blocks away.

    Remember, these things are designed to be detectable in the bottom of a stack of pallets. Your gut ain't no problem.

  9. Answers by zurab · · Score: 4, Informative
    Most of what you describe is quite possible and feasible as well. Here are the answers:

    So, you are saying that it would work like this. I go to the store, and buy a pair of shoes with a credit card. The RFID in the shoes is scanned in order to bring up a price to charge my card. So conceivably there could be a database somewhere that matches my financial info, including my name and address, etc, to an RFID tag in my shoes. Presuming the government could get access to a database like this, they could track people with some kind of device that could read the RFID tags from a distance. Thereby tracking my movements with my shoes.


    They already have you beat on this one. Gov't can already access commercial databases without your consent when you purchase an airline ticket and get to the airport. This is a new color-coding system that they assign a color code to each passenger and to their "threat level".

    With each step in this process I have detailed, things become more and more implausible. Retail store having database records of purchases, likely, I am willing to believe. Government getting access to database, not too likely but possible with warrants or something.


    See above. If they do it to the airline industry, they can extend it to other industries as well. E.g. they can get your threat level before you enter a railroad station, public parade area, football game, concert, etc.

    Government having device that can read the tags from a distance great enough to use it to effectively track your movements, probably next to impossible. I doubt these things are detectable at a range that would make tracking people practical. If you are willing to believe the government has the resources to put the trackers everywhere, on every streetcorner, without anyone knowing or getting upset, for budgetary if not privacy reasons, well...


    They could equip FBI, local police, and maybe even security guards with such devices - I don't see a problem here. As far as privacy concerns - yes there are and will/would be a lot, but the attitude that you express doesn't help that. Even with the airline passengers color-coding system, where did these privacy concerns get? Almost nowhere with only one major admission that the gov't will not store your color-coded data for more than certain period of time.

    Another obvious problem is what happens if I resell my shoes, or donate them to charity, or any number of other things that could cause inaccurate information in the database.


    Charities that are accreditted as charitable organizations by the federal gov't could be required to report all RFID tags that they have received or transferred.

    Will these types of devices draw us closer to licensing products to you and not selling them? Could it be illegal to sell an object equipped with RFID because it contains someone's IP, plus you'd probably be supporting terrorists? That's a far-fetched, yet interesting thought.

    Finally, isn't it legal to observe people in public places? That is the very definition of public, a place where you cannot control being observed by others. The government might as well be looking at you if ten or twenty people you don't know personally are. I'm not saying that if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide, or some other silly thing. I just think expecting privacy in public is unrealistic.


    This has already been answered by others. Gov't cannot invade your privacy by tracking your every move and recording it without a probable cause, at least according to the U.S. Constitution anyway. But who's paying attention to that silly thing nowadays?
  10. Then sir, You are a fool. by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have a better handle on other countries governmental maneuvering then you realize.

    Example? the Britain banning all weaponry, incrementally, until the peoples rights to defend themselves are almost totally gone now. Or cameras on most every street corner, monitored by the police..

    I could go on, but since you choose to live in a fantasy world where the government is benign ( which is by definition contrary to reality ), I wont. That's why I chose couple rather simple examples.

    Perhaps after you have no rights or freedoms left, you might wake up and see what is happening.. But again, that will be a day late. Remember its incremental, and all designed to have the populace ( sheep ) gladly accepting each small step towards total control... as apparently you have.

    Though I do agree that many nations in the world don't have as many rights and freedoms we have here in my country, so you are already 1/2 way gone.. so you don't notice it as much when what is left is slowly taken away.

    That said, even ONE single right or freedom that is encroached in even the slightest amount, is wrong, and should be fought. Regardless of what country it is. Never grow complacent and accepting..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  11. Those cards are easy to outwit... by Akardam · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's as easy as one person volunteering to be the "blind". Then all you need to do is to know that person's phone number, and type it in. You'll notice that they never complain if you don't have your card - sure, go right ahead and type in your number.

    I am one of a group of about two dozen people who use one phone number on one of our number's card. That ought to be enough to make their data practically useless :)

  12. Re:Article has wrong focus by Ryosen · · Score: 2, Informative

    >> You obviously vote Republican.

    You obviously have no idea as to what the political position is of anyone in office. Democrats are just as "guilty" of poorly thought-out legistlation as Republicans. Members of both parties are given to rash, ill-advised, and hasty decisions made in the name of "National Security." A little education might be in order before you go making such blanket statements as the one above. I suggest you start here, here or here.

    And how you got modded as Informative and not as a Troll is beyond me. Makes me wish that I hadn't burned up my mod points yesterday.

    --

    Ryosen
    One man's "Troll, +1" is another man's "Insightful, +1".