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Webcams Watching The Classrooms?
embarcadero writes "Webcams will be tuned to watch over 500 classrooms in the Biloxi, Mississippi school district this year, according to a story in USA Today. The goal is to make classrooms safer, but there's a lot of speculation about how the recorded info could be used for or against teachers in disputes or teaching reviews. I can just see Mrs. Waters pointing towards the camera, 'If I don't catch you cheating on this spelling test, that camera will! Don't even think about it.'"
But privacy advocates, teachers' groups and others worry about putting classes under an all-day microscope. Some say cameras could be misused and interfere with teaching, and others fear that districts using them could become complacent about security.
.02
Cameras will do anything BUT interfere with teaching. There are two possible scenarios: a) teachers begin to ignore the cameras and carry on as always or hopefully b) they will realize that the cameras are 100% coverage of their daily teaching and can be used for/against them during review time. They would hopefully improve their teaching and in-class behavior. This could only lead to a better teaching experience IMHO.
How many people have been in class and had a teacher watched by an administration member only to watch a COMPLETELY different teacher come through? Exactly.
I guess districts could possibly become complacent. Do businesses that monitor their cameras become complacent? No, I am pretty sure that they use them effectively for their purpose. I guess ANYTHING is better than a sticker that reads "all visitors must report to the main office."
Just my worthless
No more smoking while the teacher is out!
The package said "Windows XP or better. Pentium Class Processor or better"... So I got a Mac with OS X
The teachers watch the kids...the principals watch the teachers...the superintendant watches the prinicpals...and the eye in the sky watches them all.
-B
Someone emailed me the other day and apparently I can view "High School Girls" in the changing rooms and showers having fun and splashing out. I tried to subscribe but my credit card was refused, which seems weird as it worked when I bought some Viagra off of a Nigerian prince.
Any other slashdotters managed to view these high school webcams?
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
We had cameras on our school buses that recorded to a VCR. Nobody cared, there was still fights on the bus, people would spit or otherwise vandalize the camera. Same thing will happen to these webcams. I will be suprized if they are not stolen and sold on ebay within the first month of classes.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
these are web-enabled with a password. Police can view them "in case of an emergency."
I assume that means that there isn't a general website where people can view the feeds.
Since the US mandates that children remain in school untill the age of 18, could this not be viewed as a move towards the monitoring of all citizens under 18 between the hours of 8am and 3pm? Just a thought
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
Most of the kids were bad, and so I tried turning the camera on them and told them I would show the tape to their parents. They complained to the principal, who made me stop, and he did not renew my teaching contract.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I know where this could surley have a benefit (not that I fully understand or agree with the implications of ``in class recording''). At my school, which is in England, a teacher is not allowed to be left alone with a pupil (male or female) for obvious reasons. This has gone to the extent such that certain offices have windows in odd places just to make sure it is easy to ``see in''.
The advantages of having a video camera in situations such as these are obviously very great. There is no longer the requirement for more than one teacher (or pupil) to be present. I know these one-on-one sessions certainly helped with my electronics a couple of years ago before they introduced these new rules. Hopefully they'll be able to benefit future students too!
Schools have been given, under U.S. law, the right to act in place of parents while children are in attendance. Sometimes they take it too far. The one group of citizens in the U.S. that has the least rights and is oppressed and discriminated against the most are children. When I was in high school I had a friend tell once she was asked to take a breathalizer at a gas station while refilling her car by a police officer. When she asked what she had done wrong the officer replied that it was night time, she was under age, and she was chewing gum. He said that was enough of a reason for him to force her to take a breathalizer.
Anyways, back on-topic. If your boss threatened to point cameras at you in your workplace and fire employees who he observed slacking wouldn't you be concerned? If your employer did so at least you would have the option of leaving due to privacy concerns, schoolchildren do not have this option.
I would also like to know how secure this system is. The article claims that the video can be viewed from any computer on the internet with proper authentication. There are serious security implications here, and schools have had notoriously lax security policies in the past.
Visualize the world of wine
This is exactly what I stand for. You don't trust me, I'm gone. Simple as that. And even in this economy I have done that.
Well, here's one more reason to consider homeschooling my kids. Or at least consider sending them to a private school where such devices can't (or are less likely to be) be eventually required by law.
I already have real reservations about confining my kids for six or more hours a day to a classroom filled only with people their own age, to suffer (mostly) uninspired teaching in regimented fashion, in exchange for dubious literacy. Now I have to worry about them being trained from their earliest years to accept a surveillance society, too.
I can't escape the feeling they could do vastly more productive and useful things with that time on their own. Spider Robinson wrote an excellent piece about this in today's Globe and Mail.
They tried this at my college, especially in the computer science labs since so much stuff was stolen.
Here's what happened - my roomie stole the actual camera and used it to monitor the hallway for police/RA's when we were drinking.
Obviously not a huge problem in high school (the use) but I'm sure some will get stolen.
Sig & Below
Yuck Fou
Having taught in difficult situations in the past, I'm all for cameras in the classroom. While a Peace Corps volunteer in 1999-2000 teaching in an agricultural school in Poland (Zespol Szkol Rolniczne w Czernichowie) I was frequently yelled at by the principal for kicking particular students out of class. If only they could have seen the difference the removal of one disruptive student can make in a classroom...
Some may argue that a teacher should be able to handle all students, but with 160 students to keep track of, one can't be both teacher and psychologist to all of them.
I think the presence of cameras will restrain those likely to cause disturbances in class, and will be a tremendous aid in dealing with those who don't belong in a traditional classroom setting. Of course this is from personal experience only. I have no idea what the academic literature says about the idea.
* Not to say that the three kids (from different classes) I frequently kicked out weren't bright - they just made it impossible to get through a lesson with the rest of the students. In some situations pragmatism needs to trump "no child left behind" - if it's a choice between one student not learning a lesson or 20+ not learning...
Get together a group of geeks who have a broad range of skills in electronic engineering and computer science. Give them each a few copies of Playboy, Hustler and the like as a sort of 'payment' for their duties. Then sit back as they concoct some sort of bypass device that can be hooked up to the camera. This device will play back a constant loop of say, maybe 10 seconds of footage. You might need Keanu Reeves to come into the classroom and look nonchalant to add to the effect. Now, whatever you do in the classroom, the grunts in the monitoring room will just see a class full of kids with their heads in the books, and a teacher that looks supsiciously like papier mache
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Of course, if you get caught, you can always moan about that terrible pain in all the diodes in your left side...
Oh, I agree.
The public school system can be as fascist as the educators wish and the administration will allow.
That is why this would be a great thing.
I actually took the extreme step of bringing a tape recorder to class in 8th grade, to document the laziness, stupidity, outright incompetence, churlish and childish attitude, and inappropriate language of one of my teachers. (
Or, rather, those were the things that it documented. I only brought it in to prove to my counselor, who had accused me of not "challenging myself", that I was in fact not being challenged by the class, and that the principal *should* approve my request to be skipped to the 11th grade, so I could enter college (post-secondary). In particular, the teacher's claim that you absolutely *had* to be moving at approximately 170,000 miles per hour, or a similarly ridiculous speed, to escape the pull of earth's gravity -- in a ROCKET. (confusing rocketry with ballistics). This was a science teacher.
I refused to agree with her -- simply refused, VERY politely, even resisting my normal urge to be smarmy, just told her that I thought she was wrong, but I respected her opinion, and left it at that.
For that, she sent me to The Office. And I had it all on tape.
Guess what? It's against school policy to admit any form of student record of an account except their own memory. They wouldn't even listen to the tape, even though I had thoughtfully fast-forwarded it to the pertinent section of tape, where we disagreed. 'They' being the counselor, the vice principal, or the principal. Since being sent to the office resulted in detention time from the vice-principal, and since the science teacher could give me a 0 for the day both in attendance and participation, it had very real consequences for me.
The point of this story?
If *they* were doing the recording, and were using it for purposes of review and resolving incidents between teachers and students, they could not avoid reviewing it. They couldn't just wish it away if they were making a policy of using the audiovideo. I mean, it's not that the principal or vice-principal were real assholes -- THEY would have removed any detention time and removed it from my record. If they would have been able to listen to the tape. But they couldn't -- the teachers evidently demanded this, either informally or via union, I don't know.
I mean, it seems like a small thing. But that kind of thing is happening to my little brother all over again, and the kind of frustration that causes -- on top of all of the OTHER things that schools do to screw you up -- can really make kids stop trying in school.
I find these cameras more welcome in a public school than I do in football stadiums or airports. As you so rightly pointed out, in school, we KNOW our rights are limited.
No, seriously. Forget for a moment about "big brother" fears. This sort of thing would be GREAT for the kids who were beat up for being nerdy (like me), fat, etc. You could just say to the teacher, "If you don't do something about (PERSON X) and (PERSON Y) picking on me, I'll just tell the Principal to review the tapes." Maybe that would help get some results.
A lot of kids (myself included) come away from the public school system with a REALLY negative attitude, since kids are basically allowed to beat the snot out of each other and no one does anything. The resulting perception is that authority figures are cold, ineffectual, and utterly apathetic. This might help alleviate that problem.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
remember that one?
The teacher points out a new surveillance camera designed to monitor the kids' bad behavior. The kids point out it could also monitor the teacher's bad teaching, and the teacher runs over to cover it with his jacket.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
In my high school, about twenty security cameras have gradually been implemented in places where it's likely a student might have something stolen -- outside lockers, in the library, in the parking lots. There are still major hallways uncovered (the kids who make out in the halls probably don't mind being taped, anyway). Tapes are 48 hours long and there isn't much of a retention policy because of storage issues.
But the issue that saves these from being destructive is that the monitor with the digital feed from the cameras is available to any interested student; it's in the office in a highly visible place. If we really didn't like the cameras being there (as, I suspect, these kids may not appreciate having cameras -everywhere-, although that seems an exaggeration), then the students would complain. Students who complain to parents who complain to school board members, or students who complain to student governments (to be honest, those aren't really effective until college) can have a significant impact on public policy.
The broad term for this kind of open access and full disclosure of monitoring is "transparency". Transparency, and the system of taxpayers who encourage accountability, will destroy this system if it is misused and will support it if it helps. Cool.
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
I have to admit my initial gut reaction was to be in favour of something like this. If you know teachers, especially in smaller grade inner city and underprivileged schools you'll have heard stories about how a couple of unrully students completely and consistently disrupt the class to the point that the education process almost grinds to a halt. The same parents that produce these little monsters refuse to do anything about it but freak out if someone else does.
So the teacher ends up in a no win situation where they can't really do anything substancial to prevent one or two kids for ruining it for everyone.
Add a camera and instantly - the teacher has an overwhelming argument supporting proper punishment or banishment for the out of control kids. So the psycho kids will get the punishment / attention they need and the other kids get an environment where they can actually learn.
But... you have to wonder what kind of effect it would have on a child to be effectively raised in a constantly monitored environment. If "Friend Computer" or "Big Brother" watches you your whole youth - how agressively are you going to champion your freedoms as an adult? Does America really need a whole generation of people raised to simply - passively - accept being monitored? Can you imagine how different you'd have turned out if you never got away with anything as a student?
There are some merits to the idea of monitoring classrooms. However, there are, if you really think about it very few circumstances that would apply to all classrooms at all times.
What about a program that allows cameras to be brought in on a temporary basis if there is reason to suspect that they are needed? Something like that, implemented correctly would probably cost less, be more effective and wouldn't create an atmosphere where children are raised in a state of constant intrusive monitoring.
Just my opinion, I'll admit I haven't let the idea sink in yet.
The same people that design prisons also design a lot of schools.
Kids in school really get the short end of the rights-stick. Remember how your parents always used to tell you that "school is your job?' well, let's look at it from a work-place sort of view:
They are forced to sit at desks. They can have their belongings searched, they have to ask to use the bathroom. They are constantly micromanaged. Imagine if you were subjected to the same things in your workplace. You'd quit in a second.
Adding cameras to schools is not going to solve any problems- teachers will be more stressed out about performing well, kids will have the fear of an eye constantly watching them, and administrators will have one more piece of power over the kids.
I predict major backlash, but it's going to be one of those things that no one picks up on... I am of the opinion that cracking down on kids more and more is what leads to things like Columbine. Kids are people, and they should be treated as such.
Get the kids used to being monitored 24/7 " for their safety"...
Then as adults they will be more accepting to even deeper privacy and rights violations.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
My kid is in day care, and I've frequently thought that I'd love to be able to log on to a secure site and check up on her from my desk at work.
:)
This sort of thing shouldn't be for the benefits of the police or the administration... it should allow the parents to keep an eye out for their kids. I know if my parents had an idea the kind of crap I soaked up as a kid, I would have had a much easier young life. This being a hang out for geeks, I'm sure lots of you know what I'm talking about
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
They've actually come up with yet another way to degrade and infantilize high school age children. Kids in high school are just a few years from becoming full members of society - driving, voting, military service, etc. Why don't we try treating them as such? Why not reconsider what's wrong with school culture and try to change it to promote better behavior? Naww...just use technology instead!
...2 recent graduates, and 1 still in HS and 1 in middle school, I say no.
Not only no, but hell no
Fuck no
No goddammed way
over my dead body
The school board and I would rumble over this
Shall I explain myself?
These cameras will do no good
Asshole kids, bent on destruction, will still do it, cameras or no cameras. They do not care. Other kids will be made to feel under suspicion all the time. Teachers will feel pressured. You can't 'force' someone to be a good teacher. Either they are, or fire them. Hey...here's a concept. Pay them a respectable wage.
"Oh, but times have changed! Columbine, drugs, hazing..."
BULLSHIT.
These cams would not stop a Columbine incident. Metal detectors don't, how would cameras?
You know what is needed? Competent teachers and administrators. School district in Mississippi spends 2 million on cameras in the classroom. At $40,000 per, thats 50 teachers. How much good could 50 well paid teachers do? A lot more than some silly cameras, that do not enhance the teaching experience. They can only (possibly) punish the true assholes that do not care. The true assholes will do whatever it is they do with or without cameras.
This concept has so much opportunity for abuse it's not funny. Schools, being quasi-government organizations, will be forced to investigate every little infraction, perceived or real. Instead of letting the teacher and administrators handle things.
What? Incompetent teachers? Crappy principals? Pay them a better wage, and maybe we'll get some competent ones.
The further possibilities of abuse abound. Where are these cameras? In every classroom? OK...no funny stuff going on there. In the bathrooms? In the gym locker rooms? Riiiight. YGBSM. How soon until he cam feed gets hacked?
A bully, bent on hassling some other kid, will simply wait. You gotta go to the bathroom sometime. Or after school.
This will solve nothing
Cameras cannot turn a bad teacher into a good one, nor change the course of an asshole kid. Only human interaction can do that. And cameras are anything but 'human'. Have cameras stopped shoplifting? Not a chance. Have they stopped redlight running? Again, no. Would you feel comfortable under the camera every day, all day, at work? I wouldn't. Then why is it OK to do this to kids?
Give up some freedom, for some perceived security....well...you can see where that goes.
Again...
No
No way
Fuck no
No goddamned way.
Hmmm, my son has cameras at his school in the UK. They are well hidden - so much so that even the head and the teachers have no idea where they are! Shock, horror - well not really, the kids have them in their phones or maybe have 3 minute digital video devices about the size of pens. They take great delight in recording the actions of the teacher(s) and postingthe results to their personal web pages... Little brother is watching too.....
While I completely disagree with the Stasi tactics of the school system, what people fail to see is that it is the system that is broken and was designed to keep children in line.
Compulsory school only came about in the mid 1850's. It's time to get rid of the system. I suggest reading some of John Taylor Gatto's books to find some more information and better answers to the questions about education.
Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor Gatto
A Different Kind of Teacher by John Taylor Gatto
Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto