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A Real Living With Virtual Goods

RussHart writes "The BBC is reporting on a Julian Dibbell who has quit his day job to sell items from Ultima Online in the real world, hopefully making a living on which to support his wife & daughter."

15 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. Problem with it is ... by evslin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're not duping items or some such, it's because you're in front of the game for hour after hour after hour hording things to sell on ebay. Bet you anything he works longer hours than he did at his 'real job' to make anywhere near as much money.

    1. Re:Problem with it is ... by H8X55 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      very true, but at the same time, i'd rather work sixty hours a week doing something i love than forty hours a week doing something i didn't.

      no medical insurance though, sheesh!

    2. Re:Problem with it is ... by Daengbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can guarantee you that if you do something for 60 hours a week you're going to get sick of it, regardless of what it is.
      I'm sorry for you, but that's bullshit for a lot of people in the world. I have spent most of my life working longer than 60 hours, and when I am doing something I love, like cooking or being in front of a computer, I have no problem with it. Neither did my father with flying. It's a concept I call pay per subjective hour (PSH). Something you like to do that pays less almost always makes you more (PSH) than something you don't like to do which pays more.
      It's also the reason people code all day and then go home to work on their "hobby" code.

    3. Re:Problem with it is ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not to mention that it is not going to help his resume if he needs to get back into the regular workforce...

  2. ***NEWSFLASH**** by James_Duncan8181 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In a capitalist society, items are worth exactly what the market will bear. Notice that nowhere here is there a distinction about corporial/non-conrporial items.

    --
    "To any truly impartial person, it would be obvious that I am right."
  3. Online exchange by casuist99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This seems to be something that the online games are going to have to address quickly. As I recall from previous posts, they've made it against the rules to sell items, but is that really enforcable? Why not legalize and regulate the trading industry with items that are "signed" or somehow unique to prevent "duping" or other bugs? An auction system similar to ebay or a simple marketplace exchange would perform this service quite well.

  4. Fair enough. by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean, what do developers for money each day? - Generally, they create code that has no real substance outside the digital realm. Sure it might be useful to some folks, but game items are equally useful to the players using them.

    I know little about these games, but it seems to me there's better money in a hack to produce virtual goods outside the context of the game, and bring them in. Eg, produce compatible objects in code, and insert it into the game. Consider it as an Import business. I'll ignore the economic ramifications for now though...

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  5. Real world money defeats the purpose of the MUD by The+Revolutionary · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Real world" money defeats the purpose of the MUD or MMORPG, as this is for myself, and as I understand this to be for many others.

    As I have said in the past, the hope in the ideal of the MUD or MMORPG is that who or what we may be in the "real world" does not in any way limit who or what we can be in this alternate reality.

    While one individual selling items for "real world" cash may not have significant effect, this behavior, in principle, is unacceptable if the above is the purpose of the MUD or MMORPG.

    When my opportunity to behave as I would like and have a legitimate expectation to be able to in this alternate reality is restricted as a result of my subservience in the "real world" to the political and economic power of another, or of the elite, then I have not even in this alternate reality escaped their reach.

    While we might certainly pretend that those who are powerful in this alternate reality as a result of their political and economic power in this reality, are not so for this reason, but are instead for some false or fanciful reason put in the context of the alternate reality, I refuse to do this, and I urge other concerned persons to voice this position.

    Why would we bring this upon ourselves? Is the political and economic power of the elite of this world not sufficiently overbearing, that we should directly permit behaviors which have the effect of extending their reach into another?

    Does the thought entertain you, that your superior who has power over you from Monday to Friday, from 9 to 5, can for a price extend his power over you, his enjoyment at the price of your integrity, and his opportunity at the price of your hope, even when you at home think you have finally escaped?

    I will not be the pawn of another's wealth; not in this world, and not in any other.

    1. Re:Real world money defeats the purpose of the MUD by Nels · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, no matter what, influence and power in the real world will always have an impact on MMORPGS and MUDS. And I'm not talking about the obvious economic argument (that which can be sold by poor folk to rich folk in order to pay the DSL bill will be sold), but instead, consider even a situation where it is impossible to sell/trade items and characters in the MMORPG.
      Who has access to the funds necessary to play an MMORPG, and even more importantly the recreation time? Certainly someone working full-time at a minimum wage job to support their self and their box may be able to spend perhaps 80 hours a week playing, but generally the only ones who will be able to put in good, solid 16 hour days 7 days a week are children in suburbia in the summertime, and rich retirees (possibly the lucky few who sold before the crash and retained their status as internet millionaires).
      Even if one doesn't buy the particular time argument, the fact remains that the worlds aren't detached. For real escapism, one must completely eradicate the influence of the other people in society. Either read a book, or play some single-player game. The goal of a virtual world with a completely independent social hierarchy, while appealing and possible laudable, is as far as I can see unachievable. Though if you have an idea, do reply. Or just invent it and make yo' money.

  6. The funniest thing is... by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that the artical makes out like MONEY is somehow real. C'mon people, money hasn't been real since the Gold Stardard was dropped, and depending who you talk to it wasn't real even then. The value of anything is determined by what people agree it is worth - everything: cars, your house, your labour, big businesses, shares, options, and yes, even imaginary gold.

    * Neo pays with plastic
    <Morpheus> You think that's money you're spending now?

    It's ALL virtual. The sooner you realise that the sooner you can stop being a slave to money.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    1. Re:The funniest thing is... by Stiletto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I assure you that Chase, Wachovia, Discover and Citibank are very well aware that the dollar is a "virtual" currency. Small fluctuations in the percieved value of the dollar have large impacts on their business.

      If you want your debt cleared (or at least relaxed) you should pray for a sudden devaluation of the dollar vs. goods with "real" values such as gold or your labor. If your $50,000 of debt which is worth a year of your labor today, was suddenly worth only 6 months of your labor tomorrow, you'd be a happy camper.

      So relax and be thankful our currency isn't backed by gold!

  7. I'm wondering how many by Siriaan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Game admins in MMOGs like UO and EQ have the power to create items, or edit accounts, or something similar whereby they can arbitrarily collect real-world saleable items. They could hoard a large number of very highly prized items or just a huge amount of gold, and then sell them to real players, creating money out of nothing - no hours spent crawling the landscape and no risk taken with real-world trading. They wouldn't even need to do it with their own account, simply use their higher knowledge of the gamescape to point a pleb account they own to the locations of hidden hoards of items or prizes.

    I'm not saying game admins are a dodgy lot, I'm sure most if not all of them are completely honest, but all it would take is one guy with just the right amount of in-game power to crank up quite the profitable R(PG)acket.

  8. So what? by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most people who work for themselves put in more hours for less pay. Why do they do it? Because they like working for themselves, or they want to do something they enjoy. In this case it's probably the latter: he is spending all day playing an online game!

  9. Irresponsible? by Sandman1971 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm I the only one who finds this individual totally irresponsible for quitting his job doing this while he has to support a wife and child??? He's putting his addiction before his very own family. This guy needs professional help, and quick.

    --
    It's better to burn out than to fade away
  10. Violation of TOS by skermit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't he violating the TOS of UO (never played, so didn't read). I'm sure he's on the blacklist of any new MMORPG he tries to play much like the casinos do when players make money off the casino in ways they didn't intend or agree with.

    --
    -Christopher Wu
    http://www.christopherwu.net/