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Stimulated Gamma Decay Weapons

ExRex writes "New Scientist is reporting on a USDOD project to produce super explosives. 'An exotic kind of nuclear explosive being developed by the US Department of Defense could blur the critical distinction between conventional and nuclear weapons. The work has also raised fears that weapons based on this technology could trigger the next arms race.'"

44 of 562 comments (clear)

  1. GASERs.... by Jonsey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That'll be a hard name to pull by the committees. GASERS or Gamma ray Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation (I may have those last two wrong).

    So we're building gamma-ray shooting guns... Like lasers, but higher energy, and thus, with more chances of cell mutation & general badness. I'll call 'em nuclear weapons for now, and maybe later, only inhumane.

    --
    I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
  2. err.. by kmak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    could blur the critical distinction between conventional and nuclear weapons

    Because you know, it's not how many people died, it's the weapons used!

    Gosh.

    --

    I'm not the devil.. just his advocate.
    1. Re:err.. by JohnsonJohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because you know, it's not how many people died, it's the weapons used!

      No, it's whether the collateral damage makes the battlefield useless afterwards. Little chunks of gamma emitters with a 31 year half life lying all over the place means whoever is left around has to deal with the consequences of a fight they may have had no part in, or may not even remember what the conflict was all about to begin with.

      It seems that it will be the case that the ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese etc. left beautiful ruins and philosophy, and Anglo-American civilization will leave little poison pills for future archeologists to uncover.

    2. Re:err.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would guess you have a sphere of hafnium which you crush into a dense ball with the help of chemical explosives - with a high enough density, the normal gamma emittions would trigger a chain reaction. Would work the same way as neutrons in a fission bomb.

  3. Oh shit. by Pxtl · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I repeat: Oh shit.

    Why did this have to be invented with W in office? He's the first post cold-war president to actually be interested in nuclear weapons development.

    1. Re:Oh shit. by Xentax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right. I'm sure the President himself told the DOD to go spend money on more nuclear weapons.

      Give it a rest.

      The military is (and rightfully should be) interested in weaponry that focuses on several key factors, in roughly prioritized order from most to least important:
      1) Damage potential (military reasons)
      2) Minimizing risk to friendly forces and the delivery systems (political reasons)
      3) Accuracy and Precision (cost and political/humane reasons)
      4) Cost

      This new weapon is a breakthrough in the #1 department, and may be a better technology in every category except for the "accuracy" category, due to the fallout factor. If they can figure out how to maximize the energy release (analagous to how complete the combustion is in a conventional fuel-air combustion), they may be able to bring this factor down to levels that equate it with (for example) using depleted uranium ammunition and armor.

      Xentax

      --
      You shouldn't verb words.
    2. Re:Oh shit. by saskwach · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Not only that, but I think most people have been disillusioned as to the purpose of bigger better weapons. When nuclear weapons were being developed, it was to create something that would make future warfare impossible (same with the machine gun) but we know how that turned out. Nuclear weapons technology also had applications in the private sector and may yet solve the global power problem (fusion). Meanwhile, this thing seems to be purely for killing:
      But the development of a new weapon that spans the gap between the explosive power of nuclear and conventional weapons would remove this restraint, giving commanders a way of increasing the amount of force they can use in a series of small steps.
      Why am I paying for the development of a whole new type of weapon when I can't afford school because of the resession? The cold war is over already, and massive defense spending is what caused this deficit mess we're in now...sorry for the end rant, but I'm kind of pissed.
    3. Re:Oh shit. by Talinom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll bite.

      Karma burn in process. I have some to spare. Bite me.

      Absolutly correct. We should have turned our backs on nuclear technology and hoped nobody would build any. After all, if we can keep it secret it won't ever be discovered.

      To bring it down to your level, do you like security through obscurity (Microsoft) or letting everyone know what is going on (Linux).

      If you let the cat out of the bag people know that it is possible AND that you are going to be the first one on the block to have it. If you keep it secret or bury it someone else will just come along and develop it in secret.

      Karma Burn ends.

      This is a simple case of them strategically releasing information at a time when it will better them. E.G. The SR-71 Blackbird and the F-177A Stealth Fighter were created MANY years before the news knew about them. We saw them have a starring role in Desert Storm Part I. The question that went through my head was "If they had that 10 years ago, what do they have NOW?"

      Move along as this isn't news. It is a strategic news release.

      --
      "Giving money and power to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." - P.J. O'Rourke
    4. Re:Oh shit. by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Troll?!

      What good is education and health care if extremists can come in and unravel it all?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    5. Re:Oh shit. by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "What good is living if we are doomed to die? What good is saving money if we bill collectors and the taxman is going to take it? What good is marriage if your spouse can leave you?"

      In each of those cases, one takes precautionary steps. You inadvertantly helped NG make his point.

    6. Re:Oh shit. by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blaming defense spending on the deficit is a funny thing to think about. Money spent on defense doesn't vanish. A lot of it goes to employing soldiers. This puts the money back into our system, and also trains and disciplines a lot of young men who might otherwise be getting into trouble. Much of the money goes to contractors, miners, etc, keeping more peopel in work. Yet more goes to research that hires higly educated people. Your statement that the money should be spent on education is kind of funny, because if this money were taken from defense to education, there would be a lot of educated people with no jobs. Even if you think defense spending is a complete waste, if all the people funded by defense lost their jobs, that money would be going into welfare, which is an investment with NO returns, comparatively.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  4. Potential Power Source! by Pavan_Gupta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Such extraordinary energy density has the potential to revolutionise all aspects of warfare."

    This interesting technology could potentially lead to some better new-age energy sources. I'm not sure why we always focus on warfare, when there are other ways to use the explosive power of new military technology.

  5. Next Arms Race by TrollBridge · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "The work has also raised fears that weapons based on this technology could trigger the next arms race."

    New warfare technology has ALWAYS triggered a new "arms race", starting with the first human being who ever beat another to death with a rock.

    Imagine their terror when the first knives, attlatls, and later bows & arrows started to be used in combat?

    This is simply the latest iteration of an age-old phenomenon.

    --
    There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
  6. Scary fact for those who didn't read the article by chia_monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'One gram of fully charged hafnium isomer could store more energy than 50 kilograms of TNT.'

    That's just scary. Way scary.

    --

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
  7. The human race will never change by YAN3D · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It really scares me that when a new way to release massive amounts of energy is discovered, it's first implementation is to end human lives.

  8. NO by imsabbel · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you blur the line, noone will cry if you use a bomb "just a little larger". you can always say its a very deep bunker or a big stockpile of WMD ect.

    Btw:
    Anyone still asking where you really have to search if you want to find WMD? Small hint: not in the middle east...

    --
    HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    1. Re:NO by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyone still asking where you really have to search if you want to find WMD? Small hint: not in the middle east...

      Israel probably has some.

    2. Re:NO by Gannoc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you blur the line, noone will cry if you use a bomb "just a little larger". you can always say its a very deep bunker or a big stockpile of WMD ect.

      Who cares how big the blast is? If you drop 100 small bombs or one big bomb, you're still dropping bombs. You should always be concerned when bombs are falling on people (even if you think its the right thing to do), and not care if the explosion is produced with a chemical or nuclear release of energy.

    3. Re:NO by bofkentucky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes the US, NATO countries and the former soviet republics have WMD's, but they have never invaded a neighbor for oil and port access or turned said wmd's against rebellions in their own country. Trying to equate the barbaric Huissein regime with any civilized society is an affront to humanity and submission to his vileness. As much as I hated the USSR and its socialist brethern, at least they knew better than to use such things, as opposed to fanatical islamists who seek to destroy all of Judeo-Christian society who should be their brethren if they followed their prophet.

      --
      09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
    4. Re:NO by nutshell42 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      the problem is the difference in scale of small and big bombs

      When the Army introduced the successor of the daisy cutter you often heard that it's "as powerful as a small nuclear weapon", well this conventional bomb - the largest you'll find by far - has an explosive power of perhaps 50tons (it weighs thirty and I'm assuming they use something more effective than TNT). 100 of these bombs have an explosive power of 5kt, half of the Hiroshima bomb and at the lower end of what you'd expect in a nuclear artillery shell.

      1 *big* bomb would have something in the range of dozens of megatons upwards and would be 1000times more devastating than 100 of the biggest conventional bomb and I'm not even talking about nuclear fallout. An average conventional bomb is 1'000'000 times weaker than an average nuclear weapon and that's why keeping the distinction between nuclear and non-nuclear clear is so important.

      That's also the reason I don't like all that WMD talk because chemical and biological weapons are nowhere near the destructive power of nuclear weapons and treating them as the same thing is quite dangerous and utterly idiotic from a danger-analysis point of view which is why you bombed the hell out of Saddam and try sweet-talking (or what W takes for it) Kim

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    5. Re:NO by RealityShunt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, they do."

      "Israel Known to have nuclear weapons capability, but has never declared it or tested. It has an estimated arsenal of 100 warheads and a missile range of 940 miles."

      They've had 'em for a long time, since the late 70s IIRC.

      realityshunt

      --
      Democracy is susceptible to being led astray by having scapegoats paraded in front of the electorate.
    6. Re:NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Reading comprehension - 0.

      The biggest ''conspiracies'' are hidden in plain sight.

  9. Cool! by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 1, Insightful

    An arms race? With who?

    What is this country so fucking afraid of?

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  10. Re:Neat by mszeto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but if people are going to fight, the faster its over the better, in my mind. Maybe I'm mistaken?

    I think that if you have super fast battles (read: anti tank missles against a house, or carpet bombing) people end up forgetting that there are real people on the other side. The slower it is (and the more they see), the more people remember that war is dumb. Things are only getting faster, unfourtunately.

  11. Re:Bad news... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yes, we all know what happens. A bad movie gets made that does no justice whatsoever to the original comic and several hollywood execs snort another line of coke whilst discussing what cars they are buying from the profits of the movie they managed to get people to see in the hopes that it would do justice to the orignal comic (see second sentence).

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  12. What is this country so afraid of? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "What is this country so fucking afraid of?"

    Losing to the likes of Red China, which is still imperialist, or a re-started Soviet Empire (which is just one bad election in Moscow away).

    1. Re:What is this country so afraid of? by Gannoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Neither country has the means, technological or financial, to cause us much harm. Nor, in my opinion, do they have the desire to do so.

      Neither did Germany in 1920.

  13. Sounds like good news -- for the space program by Greg@RageNet · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This sounds great, could be a great source of energy for space exploration without worrying about radioactivity/fallout problems of using nuclear power for propultion.

    This technology also sounds like it could be the breakthrough for electrical storage, think laptops and electric vehicles! It could kill the whole 'hydrogen economy' stuff that was a bad idea to begin with.

    -- Greg

    --
    Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
  14. Re:Is this really a good idea? by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course it isn't a good idea. Inventing new ways to kill others (and therefore to be killed, yourself) has always been a human fallacy. Scientists always do such research and make such discoveries strictly in the name of science. Those guys in Texas (who observed this effect) were likely not trying to pioneer new warfare (they were working towards super-batteries), but the militant and the paranoid ones immediately took over.

    The thing that needs to happen (in order for the human race to become truly enlightened) is for science to exist apart from military and warfare. If we can use science to better our lives, and solve our disputes like the animals do (butting heads, or with tooth and nail) then I think we'd get along better. Oh, and get rid of all the lawyers, too. But that's obviously an over-idealized world.

    It is true, and frightening, that such a discovery (and the very limited distribution of the technology) could put pressure on less-developed countries to get nuclear weapons (and other lethal alternatives) as a threat against our Gamma weapons. We wouldn't want every country without Gamma weapons to turn into an Iraq, now would we?

    Well, at least we've now got the robot Air Force.

  15. Re:Neat by Imabug · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the inventor of the Gatling gun had similar ideas. He thought that if he could create a weapon that was so devastating to use, nobody would want to go to war anymore. We all know where that led.

    --
    "For I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and Long Words Bother Me"
  16. Imagine UAV's by Carbon+Unit+549 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unmanned Air Vehicles: I'm an aerospace engineer and UAV's are the next big thing. I shudder to think of swarms of semi-autonomous 6 inch UAV's buzzing along carrying a couple of grams of this stuff.

    --

    nohup rm -rf ~/. >& zen &

  17. Short half life = reduced proliferation risk? by jakedata · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long could one of these weapons stay viable?
    They said that the Halfnium component has a 31 year half life. I bet the weapon becomes non-viable long before that.

    In one sense that is good. Proliferation of this weapon might not be as much of a long term threat. When the support infrastructure is removed, the weapon might decay rapidly enough to mitigate proliferation issues when compared to Plutonium and Uranium.

  18. Have you been on sabbatical since '89? by FreeUser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes the US, NATO countries and the former soviet republics have WMD's, but they have never invaded a neighbor for oil

    *cough*

    Watch any news lately?

    *cough* USA invades Iraq TWICE in 12 years *cough*

    No, we'd never do so for oil. No, never!
    [/sarcasm]

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  19. Re:Great! Who's next? by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't worry, they're both already run by criminals...

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  20. Aww by Remlik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The Department of Defense notes that there are serious technical issues to be overcome and that useful applications may be decades away."

    Damnit, and here I thought we might be able to retire weapons like these in a few "decades."

    --
    Apple free since 1990!
  21. Suicide bombers. by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me introduce you to the 20th century. Terrorists have these things called "cars" which are strong enough to carry lead cannisters.

  22. War-mongerer, no, 9/11 yes. by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The more aggressive U.S. posture has little to do with the guy in the White House. It is a result of 9/11. Democrat or Republican, after an event like 9/11, the war will be taken to the enemy, and their support infrastructure, and fought on someone else's territory.

  23. Re:Misleading title? by goodmanj · · Score: 2, Insightful
    They call this an explosion, and they use tons of TNT as the benchmark. Is it really an explosion?

    When those gamma rays strike something, they'll heat it up. If you put that much energy into something that fast, it blows up. The explosion looks and acts almost the same whether the energy source is chemical, nuclear, or gravitational. The instantaneous release of 4 gigajoules of energy in any form looks a lot like a 1-ton TNT explosion.

  24. What about non military uses? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Of course, the Generals always want to build bombs out of stuff, but what about the line:

    The experiment released 60 times as much energy as was put in, and in theory a much greater energy release could be achieved.


    Is this counting the energy put into "loading" the isotope? Whith the kind of energy they are talking about, this could be huge for us. Think "Nuclear Fusion" without the Nuclear part!! cleaner power, and no hippy anti-nuke types protesting.. I'm trying to remember my old science classes here, aren't the "Gama" radiation bits realitively easy to block?.. A room with lead walls, a bit of this chemical, and X-ray generator, and a large vat of water to make steam... How many years have we spent trying to get Nuclear Fusion to produce more power than went in to making the reaction?! and this is 60 times the engery with a few x-rays!! Why does science always have to deal with weapons first? can't we just pretend that our planet as a whole is growing up and thinking about peace?

    --

    What are we going to do tonight Brain?
  25. Re:Other than useful mass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Other than useful mass and means of detonation, this isn't much different than neutron bombs.
    It's hella different. Most of the radioactive decays in a plutonium bomb release alpha particles, for which your own skin provides a pretty good shield. Most of them don't even make it out of the "pit", so it gets a little warm. All the stray radiation in a gamma bomb would be gamma rays, which are exceedingly penetrative. Shielding this thing would be a bitch and a half.
    As a commander, I wouldn't want to use it as a matter of course any more than I would want to use a nuke.
    Well, the physics don't actually work so it's no more than a pipe dream. But if they did, it would be an extraordinarily clean and powerful bomb. The chain reaction in a fission bomb shuts down rather quickly, so you're left with lots of unburned plutonium or whatever as fallout, not to mention all the radioactivity induced in the surroundings. (Ground burst! Cobalt cladding!) But if the stimulated gamma bomb worked as claimed, the chain reaction wouldn't just use the primary gamma rays, but also the secondary x-rays that are scattered back by the surroundings. It would keep right on burning long beyond the point where a fission bomb had already shot its wad. It also wouldn't induce any radioactivity in the surroundings. There'd be an immense flash of light, a modest explosion, and a small mushroom carrying the radioactivity into the sky. Sure, there'd be fallout, but it probably wouldn't be too bad considering the alternative is carpet bombing or a prolonged siege. (Don't know how bad it would be, but we're talking about a fictional device so I guess it doesn't matter. A little fallout doesn't scare me too bad, since it's not like fallout is some magical thing that's only created by mad scientists. Lots of places treat radon like Cambodians treat landmines, and they're not being alarmist.)
    As far as I am concerned, use of such a weapon would barely be a step up from use of a dirty bomb,...
    A swift victory with gamma bombs would be preferrable to a protracted war that leaves plastic-cased landmines everywhere. Hell, there's still a company in London that carts off German bombs. I'd pay to go on a tour of Three Mile Island, but you couldn't pay me enough to demine a single acre by hand.
  26. Re:Neat by mikerich · · Score: 2, Insightful
    the inventor of the Gatling gun had similar ideas. He thought that if he could create a weapon that was so devastating to use, nobody would want to go to war anymore. We all know where that led.

    And the developers of chemical weapons, and biological weapons, and the bomber, and the battleship, and nuclear weapons...

    I'm beginning to suspect they might all have been wrong.

    Best wishes,
    Mike.

  27. Re:Wake Up! by praedor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You forget the key lynchpin to tie the WMD lie to swift action: Iraqi ties to Al Queda and, by extension, that Saddam would give WMD of whatever type to his "buds" in Al Queda. He did a double lie: imminent threat from use and dispersion of massive amounts of WMD including nukes (that mushroom cloud fear-raker statement) and ties to the much-hated Al Queda.


    We Americans wanted payback, we wanted the bastards that did 9/11 and Bush flat-out LIED to make people believe that Saddam and the 9/11 perps were in bed together so attacking the former was tantamount to a continued attack on the latter. LIE! Not a mistake. Not a simple difference in how one interprets intel - there was NO valid intel to support either lie. There was no valid intel justifying the claim of an "imminent threat".

    --
    In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  28. Home Despot vs. VillainSupply.com by RobertB-DC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Feh! Home Despot employs mostly part-time henchmen and won't accept government contracts (and don't let anyone tell you otherwise). Plus, their web site is little more than a home page with links to blank pages, and worst of all, they don't have a favicon.ico! How can you take a site seriously without a favicon?

    But seriously, folks... I did *not* expect villainsupply.com to be a real link! Too cool... in an evil sort of way, that is. Wonder if Amazon.com knows about their "Evil Amazon.com" link?

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  29. Re: employing soldiers by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The ones that don't trip over their rifles and kill themselves (there are some) end up better-off for the experience, sure. They come back with the will and discipline to, I don't know, manage a Taco Bell or something. I guess that's better than having them spend four years committing crimes back in the states. That I really don't care about.

    Meanwhile, though, anyone who's smart enough *not* to join the imperial guard gets put into 'weapons design'. That's what pisses me off. We have more advanced weaponry than anyone on the face of the earth, yet not enough manufacturing capacity or energy reserves to last more than a couple of years, and all of our research capacity goes towards designing new weapons. We leave the energy production to the Middle East and the manufacturing to the Far East and resign ourselves to being the world's policemen. News flash: real wars aren't won without steel and oil.

    If the US were cut off from the rest of the world economically, we would all just stand around with our 'rail guns' in our hands wondering what to do with them. That's not a good thing. That means that, like it or not, we sit atop an 'empire' that keeps us dependent upon the fruits of the entire world's labor and resources. In the coming decades, we will be forced to maintain that empire at all costs or give up the lifestyle that it provides and to which we have become accustomed.

    Maybe a few hundred thousand dollars gets thrown into subsidies for solar panels or research into some new windmill technology that would be absolutely *crushed* by cheap oil prices if it ever made it to market. Meanwhile, billions of dollars goes into design of weapons that we couldn't even use without the oil provided by those we point them at.

    I mean, what does the US produce other than power, or at least the perception of it? Of course, that's the reason terrorism is such a threat. That's why bin Laden spends all his time calling the US a 'paper tiger' and goading Arab leaders into fighting with the US instead of cooperating with it. He's betting that we're simultaneously stupid enough to try to fight the entire world and too lazy to give up our position as the recipients of the world's productive capacity.

    Seriously, let's say you could give a damn about the environment or who we have to bribe, threaten, or kill to get cheap gas prices and want nothing more than to drive your SUV and buy cheap electronics and fill your house with little plastic trinkets 'till you die. Terrorism should make you wet yourself. History has shown that armies do not defeat terrorists. Even if we bugged the entire planet and tracked people 24/7, the cost would be much more than a simple, sane policy of self-sufficiency.

    If we really set out to do so, we could have the entire country automated and isolated in sight of a decade. I'm talking robots mowing yards and growing crops and stamping out cheaply-made crap powered by sustainable, renewable energy and everyone sitting around on sofas surfing for porn eating soy-burgers (it's all going to be soy pretty soon anyways). That's really the goal we should be setting for ourselves; not "to be the world's target for terrorism".

    After that's done, maybe we can go about trying to clean up the rest of the world. That would be a noble way to spend our time if we didn't have alterior motives for controlling every politico from here to Bangkok. Besides, everybody knows that the whole 'information economy' thing is a load of shit. Any self-respecting towel-head isn't going to pay for a legitimate copy of The Matrix or Windows Me anyways. We need to give up the whole "look at us, we're productive" myth and stop playing GI-Joe long enough to accept the facts and get to fixing things.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"