Pirate Anime FAQ Updated

Joe Curzon writes "The Pirate Anime FAQ has finally been updated, after year of me being far to busy to do anything on the internet! The FAQ would have been released sooner, but my request on Slashdot.org produced some "interesting" feedback via e-mail. This update includes a new and improved Fansub section, which also covers Digisubs. Scanlations have been added as a point of interest. Additionally the Audio CD and DVD sections have been improved with more details on the Pirate Companies and how to spot their "products". I would also like to say that feedback from readers and the industry is critical for keeping the FAQ up to date, and without their previous and continuing support The Pirate Anime FAQ could not exist. Finally I would to remind people to be extremely cautious when buying from on-line auction sites such as eBay. The most common e-mail I get sent is from concerned fans who have just found out that they have bought some pirate goods off a seller who claimed what they were selling was legitimate."

Comments

So what?

[gloth]

What's so special about this FAQ that it received so much attention here? Wasn't too long ago that even the thought of updating it made it to the frontpage

I'm totally disappointed

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought this FAQ would help me pirate Anime... sigh.

Aw MAN.

[Faust7]

The most common e-mail I get sent is from concerned fans who have just found out that they have bought some pirate goods off a seller who claimed what they were selling was legitimate.

I knew that Rei blow-up doll couldn't be a licensed product...

Re:Aw MAN.

[Mononoke]

I knew that Rei blow-up doll couldn't be a licensed product...

No, but the Hello Kitty vibrator is.

(No, I couldn't deep-link directly to it. Look in the 'Toys' section.)

Enjoy!

OOOOOKAY then...

[bersl2]

It's been updated three times since the last story about it...

Really...how big of a deal?

[neiffer]

I wonder how much of a big deal this is. Sure, protecting copyright is important, but I don't think anime expansion in the United States would have happened as fast or expansively without copyright violation. Are there are real stats (not trumped up RIAA-style statistics) saying how much of a problem this is? Also, would an FAQ be misguided towards the real problem? Younger children buying cheap ripoffs?

Re:Really...how big of a deal?

[TomHandy]

Well, this is an especially big deal to the original Japanese companies. And it's not just a US issue, but the problem of Japanese anime DVD's being pirated and bootlegged throughout Asia. The Japanese companies have generally expressed an even greater concern about this. In terms of how much it affects the US companies, it's more a different issue. Fansubs generally aren't as much a concern as "import" shops that sell bootlegged anime DVD's, even bootlegged DVD's when the show is licensed and available commercially in the US. Same with eBay auctions, where some companies have been more active in trying to clamp down on bootlegs than others (AnimEigo in particular has tried very hard to deal with the bootlegs of some of the shows they have licensed and released commercially like Kimagure Orange Road and SDF Macross).

And you are right..... the US companies in particular do recognize the role fansubs play, and the general thing they ask for is to stop distributing fansubs of shows when they are licensed..... although the digisubs phenomenon makes this more difficult, because it isn't as easy to halt digisub distribution compared to the VHS fansub days, when a fansub distributor could stop distributing a fansub, and the extent of a fansub's spread after that was less, and the quality wasn't that good anyway compared to commercial releases. This is the big issue that is dealt with regarding digisubs, which can be copied and distributed easily to hundreds or thousands of people at a time, and each subsequent copy isn't degraded like when people copied fansubs for friends, etc.

But anyway, the focus, and the big deal is most definitely the actual bootleg anime DVD's, etc..... fansubs and digisubs aren't seen as quite the same kind of issue.

-Tom

Re:Really...how big of a deal?

[TomHandy]

Not really...... the fansubs that helped to pave the way for this were not really being sold (and there wasn't a big market for bootlegged anime)..... most fansub distros distributed fansubs essentially for the cost of the tape and shipping and handling. No-one complained about this because there wasn't much of a commercial anime market anyway, and they did recognize the role fansubs played in getting interest in commercial anime. I don't know about the example you cited.... by 1989 there was a nascent commercial anime market, but i'm not aware of any companies that were selling unauthorized stuff on any significant scale.

As far as people "whining" about their copyright, I don't know exactly what you mean. Which people are you saying are whining? The Japanese companies are "whining" about digital piracy in general to the degree that it is rampant throughout Asia, and it is also devaluing their properties, and there are people profiting from their products. The companies in the US generally are only requesting that people stop fansubbing when they license a show, but they are hardly "whining".... every company is concerned about bootlegging and pirates selling bootlegged material, but I'm not sure what is hard to understand about why companies would dislike this.

Anyway, I hope that clears it up... I'm still not completely sure what you were asking above, but anyway, the US market for anime was helped by fansubbers, fans of these shows who fansubbed and basically helped to distribute anime for no profit, and helped to raise interest in anime, and to some degree to help companies determine what shows might be worth licensing and bringing out commercially. People who sold fansubs or pirated material were never looked upon well..... whatever people were SELLING fansubs or bootlegs at "county fairs in 1989" weren't seen as positive by fansubbers or Japanese or US companies.

Hope this helps. And at least explains the views on fansubbing, and bootlegs sold for profit, etc.

-Tom

Re:Really...how big of a deal?

[TomHandy]

I've read the FAQ.... but your premise is incorrect. First off, the Japanese companies have always had a problem with unlicensed material (wallscrolls, posters, stickers, etc.). They've never tolerated them in the US, Japan, Asia, or anywhere else. Your point that these companies weren't complaining about unlicensed peripheral materials is dependent on the assumption that at one time they turned a blind eye to the companies who produced this unauthorized material.... but that's really never been the case.

But anyway, to answer your fundamental question.... yes, now that it has expanded into the "mainstream", there is a larger complaint about unauthorized peripheral materials like models, toys, stickers, posters, wallscrolls, etc. etc. etc. This is because the presence of them is even more damaging now that there is more money to be made because there is more of a market...... but the value of their products is diluted by bootlegged material. This has always been the case though, so it's not like this has changed... it has just become more prominent.

So, again, I'm not sure what exactly your complaint here is. I guess the point you are trying to make is something along the lines of: anime wouldn't be popular today without bootlegged material.... therefore, the companies somehow owe the bootleggers some leeway and should let them continue bootlegging their material, profiting by selling unauthorized products using copyrighted images, etc.

But I just don't think this holds water. The bootlegged material is basically just people stealing copyrighted material.... these bootlegs were the same in Asia and the US. The presence of bootlegged products in the US wasn't specifically accountable for the rise in popularity of anime, and there is not anything about imported bootlegged material that merits any special treatment.

I think that's ultimately what this boils down to. It wasn't the bootlegged toys, stickers, posters, etc. that were majorly responsible for building the exposure and cult status of anime in the US. Whatever part it did play (i.e. from import shops importing bootlegged material and selling it as legitimate), it wasn't any different than the legitimate posters, stickers, wallscrolls, toys, etc. that were also being sold in the US and imported legitimately. These things, and fansubs, anime clubs, and some early anime releases in various forms (i.e. Star Blazers, a modifed version of Space Battleship Yamato, followed by Robotech, a modified version of SDF Macross, Genesis Climber Mospeada and Southern Cross) helped to get the ball rolling.

So, just to be crystal clear.... those same Japanese companies have always complained about people and companies who illegally used their copyrighted material without authorization. Nothing has really changed in that regard. And the complaint has always been legitimate.

-Tom

Re:Really...how big of a deal?

[sasami]

Sure, protecting copyright is important

You can take issue with the copyright aspect if you want but that's not the point of the FAQ.

The intent is to allow people who are looking for authentic goods to identify them.

When I first began to buy anime goods, I assumed everything I saw was legitimate. I was lucky to stumble onto this FAQ by accident before I wasted too much money on inferior products. But I did waste some -- and having replaced those bootleg items with originals, I can attest to the serious difference in quality.

Now, the FAQ does strike the correct tone in condemning piracy (resulting in all the usual Slashdot kneejerking) but that's incidental; it would be nonsensical for a bootleg FAQ to condone any other position.

--
Dum de dum.

Is this correct?

[DAldredge]

"US Citizens should note it is also a federal offence to import, buy, sell or trade these goods."

Doesn't the law saying you have to KNOW the goods are pirate?

Re:Is this correct?

[neiffer]

While that might be true in some circumstances, it is not true in copyright law. If they were true for copyright, Hilary Rosen could have sat a K-Mart with pirated (arrrr...) copies of House Party III that *looked* real and brought up federal charges against any poor sap that was unfortunately enough to pick up a copy. I think the same issue applies here with anime.

Re:Is this correct?

[kaltkalt]

Yes but some laws require a mental element, i.e. intent ("mens rea" in legal fancy-latin). That's different from ignorance of the law. If I jump out at you from behind a tree and yell "boo!" to scare you and cause you to have a heart attack and die, it is not murder because I did not have the intent to kill you (even though my act caused you to die and I knew killing someone is murder, which is illegal). If you buy it thinking it is real, it is still contraband and you can't bring it into the country (it will be confiscated by Customs if they find it) but you won't be charged with a crime. Now, bringing in 100,000 units of pirated stuff might get you in some trouble b/c it could imply an intent to sell/distribute the stuff (it's clearly not for your personal use).

Yes, this applies to drugs, too. For example, if someone sticks a bag of pot in your pocket and you had no idea they did it, you're technically not guilty of a crime, even though the stuff is in your possession. But, you'll have a hard time convincing the cops that someone stuck it in there (don't they have the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt? Sure... but these are drugs, and as we all know the Constitution doesn't apply to drug crimes).

Anyway, bottom line is you're not gonna get in criminal trouble for bringing a pirated anime doll or whatever into the US from abroad. It can be confiscated, though (ya won't get it back, no matter how innocent/ignorant you were).

RIAA for Anime

[vevva]

Hmm.. should be interesting to see how this debate pans out given the parallels with MP3s. At least the Anime/Manga producers haven't got teams of goons issuing subpoenas to come round and inspect our bookshelves. "Excuse me sir, we have reason to believe you may be in possession of some unlicensed tentacle porn - would you mind accompanying us to the station"

The quality of HK DVD

[Sexy Commando]

It's worthy to note that 90% of Hong Kong Anime TV-show DVDs are from the inferior TV captured sources, not from the DVD releases. Of course you can find dedicated pirates who strive to get the same quality as the original, but it's not likely you can find them in Hong Kong made DVDs.

If the show is unlicensed in the US, it is likely that you can download from BT sites like here and here.

AAAAHHH!!1

[bersl2]

u got me!!! plzplzplz dont take me to jail!!!

Oh, wait...

Stupid overactive imagination...

Uhh

[Kethinov]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't selling pirated stuff even more cracked down on that downloading/sharing it? I mean fuck, that's a total kick in the face to the author. It's one thing to acquire stuff illegally, but it's another to go around selling it as if it was your's to sell. Why not just sue the crap out of everyone who sells pirated stuff and skip the consumer FAQ? Because the consumer really doesn't care whether or not it's licensed.

Re:Uhh

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I agree, but there are problems.

The FAQ is an educational tool. Some people don't even know that this stuff is pirated. Some bootleg packages are pretty darn convincing, and only telltake cues and sometimes even comparison to the real thing may be needed for people to spot them.

The licencees often don't have the time to crack down on the biggest sellers. Some licencees do take the time to join eBay's little rights-owner program and get pirated stuff cancelled, but not all.

Most of the pirated stuff is produced in other Asian countries where the government hasn't or can't sign the Berne Convention treaty, so piracy is technically legal (like Taiwan R.O.C) or the government looks the other way and only does a half hearted crack down when the owner complains These titles are imported by small-time dealers and distributors and there are simply too many.

heh

[elmegil]

The most common e-mail I get sent is from concerned fans who have just found out that they have bought some pirate goods off a seller who claimed what they were selling was legitimate.

You mean like that Cowboy Bebop boxed set I bought claiming "english subtitles", only to find that they were Engrish at best. Totally incomprehensible.

Darn...

[palp]

I was hoping for some information on Pirate Anime, not pirated anime.

Arr, matey!

Fansubs

[neostorm]

Everytime something a little underground get coverage on slashdot, I cringe. I really hope this doesn't cause copyright holders to crack down on Fansub distributions, because I really dig my fansubs.

On top of that, I'm pretty certain that anyone willing to buy dubbed versions of the same anime when they're ported to the US market (100 years after Japanese release) will still buy the DVDs anyways. That is to say, I hope this doesn't become another mp3 crackdown because some greedy bastards decide that fansubs are "ruining their profit".

Re:Fansubs

[RickHunter]

Actually, very few American or Japanese companies have a problem with fansubbers. (Carl Macek, of Harmony Gold, is the only one I can think off of the top of my head) Fansubbers are very nearly their best friends. These are people willing to do the work of obtaining high-quality copies of episodes, translating and subbing them, and distributing them to fans for free. This gives the commercial importers/translators a great chance to judge how popular a series is before dropping loads of money on it. (Though some ignore this opportunity, such as the guys who funded the Ninja Scroll TV, and wind up with flops on their hands. Huh. Big surprise) As long as the fansubbers stop distributing once the show's acquired for US distribution, the commercial companies generally have no problem with it. And there's enough fans out there that respect this (such as the guy that runs animesuki) that the system works.

Let's not get crazy...

[cubyrop]

I can appreciate that the prevailing mode of slashdotters, especially when it comes to piracy, is one of legality and reason (or so they would like to seem). Really though, is a FAQ for anime piracy _truly_ relevant?

The reasons that piracy exists in anime is because a) most anime fans do not speak japanese (although they do certainly try, don't they) and therefore require the intermediary of fansubbing (illegal), and b) obtaining imported products, especially soundtracks, are _prohibitively_ expensive. This isn't like "go to Tower and pick up the CD for 15 bucks" ... these things run 30 and 40 dollars for the real mccoy.

And as others have no doubt already said (or are about to say), this is not a situation where the market conditions are changing per se, as is the case domestically with CD sales; rather, this is a case of a market expanding in a way ultimately beneficial to both consumers and producers.

There hasn't been a single case of a Japanese company cracking down on this in the US, at least that I'm aware, so really in all honesty, this FAQ comes off like that one kid in class who reminds the teacher that she forgot to give homework. So you bought a pirated CD by mistake. What are you going to do now, send it back? Or perhaps write a FAQ about it?

Re:Let's not get crazy...

[Nimrodel]

Actually, I've found, those aren't really the reasons that people pirate anime. The most prevalent reason is that when anime are dubbed into English, they tend to be butchered, scenes are cut, translations are totally wrong (not to mention some of the voices are downright terrible). People watch pirated subtitled anime because it's 'truer' to the original. The people who pirate these are people who really love the series, so the do as much to preserve all the original meaning. Second, many very good series just aren't brougth to America. Many wouldn't translate very good (I personally know at least one that was so full of of jokes based on Japanese culture/language that it would nearly be impossible to translate and keep the real meaning). Pirated anime has much more variety than whatever you'd find on television or at the store in America. I do agree that actually buying all this anime would be prohibitively expensive. That point you made is extremely true.

Re:Let's not get crazy...

[TomHandy]

I'm not sure about this...... I don't think it's been true for quite a while that when anime is brought out commercially in the US that it tends to be butchered, scenes are cut, translations are totally wrong, etc.

There are only a handful of examples of this I can think of, and most of them involve the company 4Kids, which brings out some kids shows.

Outside of that, the major anime companies like ADV, Bandai, Pioneer, Synch-Point, AnimEigo, Central Park Media, Media Blasters, etc. all generally release uncut anime, complete with Japanese audio and subtitles. The DVD's often have dubs too, but the Japanese audio is still almost always there, except in some rare cases when a company doesn't have the rights to the Japanese audio for some reason.

Pirated subbed anime isn't "truer" to the original than commercial subbed anime (I mean, it sounded like you still thought most anime that is brought to the US is released dub only and edited, which just isn't true), and in fact, in many times the translations on subbed pirated anime is worse (sometimes even when the pirates steal a fansub script to use, they still end up screwing up the timing or replacing names or some other weird stuff).

Saying that the only way to get anime that is "true" to the original is with pirated anime is just too far off the mark. The large large majority of most modern anime brought out commercially in the US is not butchered, etc. (we're not living in the 80's of Streamline and Carl Macek any more with stuff like Robotech and the butchered version of Nausicaa released as "Warriors of the Wind").

I agree that there are still a number of good series not brought out in the US, but a much larger number of series are being brought out now, and a much larger variety than even a few years ago, with many different genres represented.

Anyway, just wanted to respond to this, as it seems to reflect a version of commercial anime that doesn't exist in reality (most specifically the notion that only by buying pirated anime can you get a "truer" version of anime).

This notion that the people who pirate anime are people who really "love" the series strikes me as bizarre to.... most of the anime bootleggers and pirates don't have any particular love for most of what they bootleg.... they just care about doing anything that will sell.

The only thing I can think from some of the things you said were that you were using "pirated anime" to refer to fansubs, but for the purposes of this discussion, although fansubs are of course pirated, this also lumps them in with the anime DVD bootleggers, who many of the statements don't apply to.

But either way..... the point you made about dubbed anime doesn't have much to do with it, as commercial anime does almost always have Japanese audio and subtitles, and it's very rare that commercial anime DVD releases are butchered, cut or feature totally wrong translations (the cases where this does happen are the exception generally, and when they do happen, the company who releases it gets slammed by the anime community).

Lastly, I would say that there are more good series that have come out lately that people thought couldn't possibly translate because they were depenent on Japanese culture and language, but I think both fansubbers and commercial anime DVD companies have generally proven this wrong. A show like Excel Saga, which many thought could never be successfully translated, is a good example of this... and it was a pretty big success too. In most cases, they are able to explain the jokes with footnotes, translation notes, on-screen pop-ups and other ideas.

Anyway, sorry to go on so long....:)

-Tom

Re:Let's not get crazy...

[Qzukk]

I do agree that actually buying all this anime would be prohibitively expensive. That point you made is extremely true.

Of course. This is why you don't buy all the anime. I pick and choose what DVDs to buy on a regular basis. Sure, I give preference to series I have seen and liked on fansubs, but I don't use my fansubs as an excuse not to buy and support a series I liked.

Think about it this way: BGC 2040 exists because US fans bought enough copies of the original that ADV went to the AIC and said "You know, BGC completely tanked over on your side of the ocean, but look, if you make us a new series, we'll sell it over here." And so they did, and somewhere in there, the idea of the US companies supporting Japanese animators was born. So, if you have a series you like, buy their DVDs. Encourage everyone to buy the DVDs. Just maybe, the Japanese company will say "gee, this is pretty popular over there, lets make another season." And so Big O season 2 was born (just in case you thought it was an isolated incident that wouldn't happen for your favorite series. While the Japanese economy continues to slump, expect this to happen more often).

As for your "totally wrong" translations, what are you comparing these to? Hopefully not the horrid engrish subs on some HK discs. The fansubs? Not translating a word because you can't think of a good way to do it is a cop-out. Throwing more subs on the screen to explain the word is great for an educational video, but would never fly on cartoon network. And thats when the college student with a couple of semesters of Japanese over what ever he's learned from watching other shows gets the translation correct... When I started getting into anime, the VHS fansub groups actually hired professional translators to do the work. The digisub generation has decided that doing it right isn't worth not being the first to the servers ("mass naked child events" ring a bell to any AnimeJunkies fans?)

Well, thats the end of my rant. If you're going to pirate a show thats SO GOOD and you don't think the US release will do it justice, buy the Japanese release. I've got several R2 DVDs. With a dvd-burner, a decent mpeg2 demuxer/muxer, a dvd sub generator, and a script you like you can make your own subtitled DVDs that will be much higher quality than any chinese subbed dvd or divxed-to-hell fansub.

I do, and while I know there won't be a second season for Kokoro Toshokan or Saishuu Heiki Kanojo, I am preordering the pilot DVD for the second season of another show (I won't mention it since I don't want to attract too many "anime is for pedos" trolls. You can figure out which series it is) and I'd like to think that I helped the second season become reality.

Re:Let's not get crazy...

[Silverhammer]

Blockquoth the poster:

obtaining imported products, especially soundtracks, are _prohibitively_ expensive. This isn't like "go to Tower and pick up the CD for 15 bucks" ... these things run 30 and 40 dollars for the real mccoy

Well, first of all, you're exaggerating the hell out of the import situation. You can find virtually any Japanese CD you could possibly want right here. They do mail order to anywhere in the world, they're fast and reliable, they're 100% legitimate, and depending on the exchange rate, almost every album can be had for less than $25.

But that's all beside the point. The simple truth is you're a lazy cheapskate who just can't be bothered to support the industry. You're not a fan -- you are a parasite.

Hell, buying pirated goods is even stupider than stealing them outright...

There hasn't been a single case of a Japanese company cracking down on this in the US, at least that I'm aware, so really in all honesty, this FAQ comes off like that one kid in class who reminds the teacher that she forgot to give homework.

Translation: "So long as I don't get caught, nobody is hurt."

Amazon?

[Cyno01]

I probably bought the same set, Cowboy Bebop: The Perfect Sessions? After i ordered it i read some of the reviews, most of them were like "shame on amazon for selling pirate dvds". I got it and sure enough the set is a bootleg, but the entire set in decent quality for only $30, i dont really mind.

hogwash...

[segment]

Why do some retailers sell them? Some retailers are unaware that they are selling unlicensed goods, this could be because they don't know enough about anime goods, or maybe they want to make a bigger profit, as unlicensed goods are cheaper. Some retailers knowingly sell these goods for numerous reasons.

In many major cities there are hundreds of retailers selling them, hell I go into my local vid store and find bootlegs left and right. The author did a nice page of trying, but the fact is, many people from here who followed the link probably clicked the back button a few seconds later.

Fact: There are many out there who use the net for an escape, and many of those who do probably don't have the money to amuse or entertain themselves otherwise. So is it that much of a threat for Farmer Bob's son to download something he'll probably use for a week then toss to the side? Most articles only focus on the hardcore bootleggers, and they never exclude people like I just described in their stats. Hell I dont even know where they get their stats from anyway. No one has ever called my house to ask my views on this, yet in most articles you would see something state "The majority of users blah blah blah" I've spoken to my friends, and they've spoken to their friends about these stats and whether or not someone contacted them, and you know what.... No one I know or they know has ever been contacted, and these people are on comps way too much.

So the moral of the story is this... Absolutely nothing... People are going to do what they're going to do, it's happened in every industry, and it will continue doing so... Full circle...

Why aren't they trying to SOLVE any of these?

[Mitreya]

Ok, so having read the FAQ, I'd like to point out some interesting quotes:

Occasionally the legitimate item might not be available, so fans go for bootlegs in this case too.

And who's fault is this? I wouldn't even call this bootlegging.

Official goods normally have good quality packaging that is well designed.

That just isn't true. Ditto for pirated Anime but all of the Anime I own has average to crappy packaging.

If the price is too good to be true, then it is not the real thing.

That's a wonderfull way to spot a bootlegger! Unless they charge $30 for a 2 to 4 episode DVD they probably aren't legit. Does anyone know why they cost so much? Can't be the English subtitling, since they don't even have to know English to do their work

if it is set to Region 0 or All Regions and has Chinese as well as English subtitles there is a very strong chance that the title is a bootleg.

I am assuming that customers want both chinese and english subtitles, but legit DVDs do not provide those?

Re:Why aren't they trying to SOLVE any of these?

[TomHandy]

Regarding the legitimate item not being available, I'm not sure whose fault you are implying here, but you seem to think that if the product isn't available, it's the fault of some particular company, and therefore isn't even bootlegging in this case. Normally there can be a number of factors, including the rights to a show being in limbo, or some other issue. Either way, it doesn't change it from being bootlegging if you buy a bootlegged company of something. Although it is probably lower on the scale of things people worry about (i.e. if something isn't available commercially in any format).

Regarding packaging, I don't know what anime you own, but either way, just because the anime you own has average to crappy packaging doesn't mean that is true of all commercial anime, especially more recent stuff. Certainly some modern anime releases still have poor packaging design, etc. (you can get a good idea of this by reading the reviews on animeondvd.com, which goes into a lot of detail usually on packaging, menu design, etc.). Either way, the main issue with that entry in the Pirate Anime FAQ is that a lot of pirate anime still ends up with good packaging because they are able to spend more on high quality packaging, and for the artwork they usually just steal art and packaging design from the Japanese or US releases.

Not sure what you mean about "not having to know English to do their work". I'm not sure what commercial anime you own, but generally most subtitling is pretty good, although there are still examples of some shows released with sometimes poor translations (or at least inaccurate). But this is more the exception than the rule, and it makes me wonder what commercial anime you have, as generally it is the bootlegs that are known for very poor English translations, which are generally done by people who know very little English. Or are the bootlegs what you were referring to?

Regarding the pricing, most of the cost has to do with the cost of licensing the show, the cost of producing it, translating it, often dubbing it, authoring it and doing the other things that go into domestic anime releases. There are plenty of costs involved, and it's not like they just take a Japanese DVD and slap on some subtitles and that's it. Aside from that, the only DVD's now with only 2 episodes a disc are usually very expensive OVA series (such as FLCL, which is 6 episodes across 3 DVD's.....compared with 6 episodes across 6 DVD's for the original Japanese release). Some shorter series get spread across 3 and 4 eps a disc, and some more high profile series are released with sometimes 3 episodes a disc in order to recoup costs, but it's becoming more common to have 4 or 5 episodes a disc.... there are even companies experimenting with doing things like 7 and 8 episodes a disc, with a higher MSRP.

But the commercial US releases are still considerably cheaper than the Japanese R2 releases..... the point made in the pirate anime FAQ though is that if the prices are insanely low, like a 26 episode series for only $30, then it is likely a bootleg. The general economics of anime can generally explain why no commercial releases can be anywhere as cheap as a bootleg..... prices of commercial anime are coming down a bit, but they still aren't going to compete with bootlegs because bootleggers don't have to really pay for much at all, thus they can sell their stuff for very low prices.

Your assmption that customers want both Japanese and English subtitles isn't really the reason that bootlegs have Chinese subs in addition to English subs. The Chinese subs are generally because the bootlegs are heavily popular in Asia, and so the bootlegs almost always have Chinese subs. I think you might have been saying this might be a reason why people would buy a bootleg, but that really isn't it. There are legitimate Chinese DVD's with actual Chinese subtitles that are legitimate and commercial, so people who want legitimate Chinese subs can buy commercial DVD's, not resort to bootlegs.

To answer

Digisubs and Incentive

[Entity79]

"Normally when a title is licensed fansubbers stop distributing it, however because digisubs are so much easier to distribute a fansubber can no longer prevent others copying a digisub. Since most digisubs are of reasonable to high quality (again it depends who authors it etc), the incentive to purchase the licensed copy is less, this results in more casual or unconcerned fans not bothering to buy the title when it comes out on DVD." Well, actually, there IS an incentive to buy the series when it is released in the USA (or elsewhere). Bootlegs don't have the extras found in the original.(IE: posters, trading cards, collectible cases) Digisubs are not a replacement for the DVD itself, simply a way of `tiding over` until it is released here. Also, many series are not released into the US, so digisubs are the only way to see certain series. (Crayon Shin-Chan for example)

RTFA

[Daetrin]

This is not "something a little underground," and this is _not_ about fansubs. This is about professional pirates operating out of Taiwan and mass producing physical goods to sell at a profit.

I have no problem with fansubers and file-sharers, for anime or for mainstream media, but it really pisses me off that there are people out there making a profit off of this stuff. If i'm actually going to spend money on a product, i damn well want the profit going to the people who deserve it, not some criminals somewhere.

Yeah, import CDs are expensive, and given the market for cheap pirated ones i can't figure out why the real companies don't make cheaper American versions. The high prices may justify not buying the original in your mind, but that doesn't excuse buying counterfeit goods. Either cough up the extra $10 or $15 for the real thing, or just content yourself with mp3s.

Fansub groups

[Anonymous Coward]

For the most part, the fansub groups only distribute unlicensed (meaning not currently being distributed by a legitimate US outfit) anime. Most of the fansub groups don't try to hide either. Tracking them down, would be much easier than chasing after people on P2P networks.

Because the anime copyright holders aren't out suing the fansub groups to oblivion, I assume there's an informal understanding between them. The fansub groups do a lot to promote the anime to an audience that the anime producers may not have the time or resources to focus on. There are many animes that would never make it to the US audience otherwise. Likewise, when the animes do get licensed in the US, the fansub groups almost always stop, even if they are only a couple episodes from completing the series (eg. Wolf's Rain).

Re:Fansub groups

[TomHandy]

Yeah, there has generally always been an informal understanding, although some newer digisub groups seem to disregard the understanding more and more.

For example, Anime-Kingdom agreed to stop fansubbing and distributing Gundam Seed after Bandai said at Otakon that they wanted people to stop fansubbing it, but AK also took a number of jabs at Bandai and seemed upset about being requested to stop fansubbing it.

Some groups have continued on with subbing Gundam Seed anyway in spite of Bandai's request, such as Anime-Kraze. And although Wolf's Rain was stopped by the main fansub group, it seems that a "temporary group" called Wolfnick sprang up to keep subbing it after the licensing announcement.

There are still plenty of anime fansub groups that do stop fansubbing when a show is licensed, but there are an increasing number of groups which disregard the licensing status of a show and keep fansubbing anyway, and get upset with companies when they are asked to stop.

-Tom

But who's selling it?

[twoallbeefpatties]

The U.S. doesn't have much authority to go after the people that pirate anime. The stereotypical point of sale for this stuff is Hong Kong. Though not everything comes out of there, obviously, the majority is printed and distributed from the Far East, not from within the U.S., and surely you've heard about the rampancy of piracy in countries like China, where more software, music, and movies are sold as pirated material than as the real thing. They have enough trouble as it is going after the niche stuff like anime.

It's important to keep the consumer aware about this stuff because most of it is something "we" have no control over. If you're ever in Boston, go to Tokyo Kid in Harvard Square, an anime-goods-only store, and check out their selection. They don't sell the video ripoffs, but they do have an extremely good selection of pirated CDs. Of course, you wouldn't know that the CDs are pirates. They look just like the real thing, except for the fine print that credits "Ever Anime" as the distributor.

Or check out eBay. I'ma hop over and type "Lain" into the search box and see what comes up. Choose the section of results from videos only. Of the 50 results on the first page, 4 of those results were people selling a region 1 DVD. The rest are selling region-free discs, and some aren't even shy about shipping directly from Hong Kong, Singapore, or Malaysia, while others are proud to be U.S. sellers. And if the sellers aren't even in the U.S., what jurisdiction does even eBay have to do about it? Are they going to go in and hand-pick out every pirate disc they find? Serious caveat-emptor.

Interesting double standard?

[JessLeah]

I'm not trying to incite a flamewar. I AM, however, interested in seeing what SlashDotters have to say about this concept: It seems to me that there is a "double standard" on "piracy" (I hate that word; see this page for some reasons why not to use this word) here. When people "pirate" the MPAA's latest, no one cares, but when people "pirate" anime, people here get upset. Why?

Re:Interesting double standard?

[RealityProphet]

When people "pirate" the MPAA's latest, no one cares, but when people "pirate" anime, people here get upset. Why?

Because, when people pirate MPAA's latest, it is for personal use. The type of pirating done with anime that gets people angry is when it is resold as original merchandise.

Re:Interesting double standard?

[Microlith]

Primarily because the anime companies are not pushing the DMCA.

The companies themselves have stated that they _do not_ want to sue any fansubbers, and that they wanted the fans to pressure them to stop doing fansubs of stuff like Gundam SEED.

The industry is for the most part built by fans, run by fans, and sold to fans. This is contrary to the music industry and movie industry where the majority of people in it are there solely to leech off the millions made on the big sellers.

Re:Interesting, but you miss a couple of nuances.

[kaltkalt]

Also, you mention that "I knew killing someone is murder, which is illegal" -- this has no bearing at all on the legal case.
I know, I was trying to show the difference between ignorance of law (which the post I was replying to mentioned) and lack of mens rea.


While it is probable that you won't be guilty of murder, you may be convicted of manslaughter.

It's very unlikely. Surprising someone by yelling "boo!" is not in and of itself an inherently dangerous activity sufficient in and of itself to support a manslaughter charge. Now, if I knew the guy I was surprising was really old and had heart problems, and it was the middle of the night and I looked really sketchy (wearing a hood or mask or something)... then manslaughter may be possible. But just surprising someone with "boo!" (without the intent to harm them) is most certainly not sufficiently dangerous to arise to the malice necessary in order to imply the intent to support a murder charge.

(yes, this off-topic, but still abstractly relevant to the original post.)

Renting Anime

[corgicorgi]

I've found a great way to get anime. I rent anime from this site call AnimeForest.com

They are great and affordable. I've been with them for awhile now and I'm very satisfy. I've wait for a long time for a site like this to pop up. For all you anime fans out there, check it out, it's awesome!

One Piece!

[twoallbeefpatties]

Gum-gum rocket punch!!!