Slashdot Mirror
Sony Shoots For 4-Filter CCD, 8 Megapixel Camera
Artifex writes "If you're looking to spend about $1200 on a new digital camera, check out this Digital Photography Review look at Sony's upcoming 8 MegaPixel Cyber-shot DSC-F828. The most interesting thing isn't the number of pixels in this prosumer-grade camera, but its 4-color filter CCD system. ['Instead of the traditional RGB color filter array, the new CFA is made up of Red, Green, Blue and Emerald (like Cyan) color filters.'] I've always been a strict Canon fan, but this is making me think twice."
is this like in response to the article about those people born with extra cones and see that odd shade of green that no one else can see?
The camera (as almost all other) feature a single CCD. It does however have a 4 color fileter in front of it. BTW, Nikon had that for about 4-5 years now.
Code poet, espresso fiend, starter upper.
Decisions, decisions.
Forgive my ignorance when it comes to photography, but what resolution do we need to reach to achieve 35mm quality pictures. I know my 2.1 megapixel camera can take pictures at 1600x1200 and when those are printed using my HP Photosmart printer they look 'near' perfect.
I'm assuming we're passed 35mm now then, and that these cameras are just going above and beyond what anyone has seen?
http://www.foveon.com
'nuff said.
Color filters and staggered pixels? Ringing, moire patterns and color bleeding. No thank you.
Now that there is a proper color CCD technology, why is anybody using the old system (at least, on a $1200 'professional' camera).
j
I personally love my Canon EOS 10D. Pictures from it require the use of profanity to describe their amazing clarity, i.e., fucking great. It uses the EOS lens system and is a true SLR. However, if I had the money, I would get a Canon EOS 1D.(DROOL) It has a full size 35mm sensor where the 10D is about 80% the size of a 35mm sensor.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
I avoid Sony products because of their constant attempts to force consumers into proprietary technology. See the Memory Stick and InfoLithium and Beta and Hi8, all of which are proprietary and require expensive licensing for any third party to make.
When I went looking for a digicam a couple of years ago, it came down to Olympus C3000 an some Sony (DCS-550?). The deciding factor was the Olympus uses readily-available, open-standard AA batteries and Multimedia cards, while the Sony uses proprietary, closed-standard Memory Sticks and InfoLithum batteries.
You mileage may violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics...
Fuji color film essentially has this. 4th color layer that renders tones better, especially in non-optimal light. I think Agfa has this as well.
Would be interesting to find out if this becomes widespread enough, if PhotoShop would allow manipulation of this layer someday. Would be interesting.
I also don't like Sony products for your reasons, however I dont like FUD even more.
This Sony model features a compact flash slot (as well as memory bubble gum slot). This is a truly interesting development, as sony memstick have traditionally cost about 4x as much as the same size CF. And even nowadays you can barely find it bigger size than 128MB (sony has vapored out some PR about memstick up to 1GB, however I have never seen one in any store).
Code poet, espresso fiend, starter upper.
For the same $1200, you can get corrective eye surgery so you can see something close to half the resolution offered....
Emerald (like Cyan)
Isn't cyan blue? Reminds me of an old sketch by the Frantics:
"I remember her eyes over the yawning abyss of a week and a half. I remember their brown glow lighting the room like a shock of azure sky...
Azure...
Blue. Right. They were blue. Blue as ocean water, in its deepest emerald hues....
Emerald.... Green.
Right. They were... they were green, kind of a greeny-blue... Sort of aquamarine, with browninsh flecks.....
OK, I remember her tits.
The center frequencies to which our green and blue cones are sensitive are rather far apart, spectrally -- at least, compared to the G/R cones. Looks like the E sensor on this CCD is between the G/B cones.
(RGB sensors and emitters are generally calibrated to the center frequencies of our cones.)
This is a good idea that I'd never considered. More color information is always good, and we can always just define a transform to reduce it to human optics. If nothing else, this makes more data available for image correction and whatnot. I wonder if you can actually get the RGBE data out of the camera, or if it stores three-channel JPEGs like everyone else?
Well, in any case, tetrachromats rejoice.
CCD is getting kind of old... And the quality is not even close to the CMOS type pickups. A CCD camera has to correct the image using its software before it actually becomes half-ass tolerable, and you still end up with some artifacts when photographing certain textures.
Yes, CMOS cameras are a lot more expensive, but image quality is IMHO better than 35mm film.
Take Canon's EOS DS-1.. Take a look at some of the sample pictures - they are amazing.
http://www.canoneos.com
--- sig moved for great justice.
If you had bothered to look, you would have noticed that this particular sony camera uses standard compact flash cards, in addition to sony's normal memory stick.
Most people won't need image resolution that high ... HOWEVER, it is good if you want to do anything with professional or production quality.
3264 x 2448 resolution will allow you to print a 21" x 16" print @ 150DPI. Thats enough for production quality posters, calendars, etc. It'll allow you to print an 8x10 at 300DPI, which is arguably better than 8x10 quality with regular 35mm film.
This camera is also good if you're a decent shot and want to sell your photos through stock shops like gettyimages, corbis, etc. You *NEED* to have resolution like this before production houses will even look at your stock images... because guess what they do with them?.?.?.?... that's right... posters, calendars, and other production which requires 150-300 DPI at reasonable visual sizes.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
Color management would be handled the same as any other digital camera. Even though the CCD has a four color filter, the data is converted back to 3 color RGB (14 bit i might add... giving a slightly wider color gamut than current 12 bit digicams). If having a profile for your digicam is important I would recommend Monaco system's (now x-rite corporation) MonacoDColor application. This handy little app will allow you to perform easier color corrections simply by applying the cameras profile. It also intigrates well with Monaco EZColor (their prosumer monitor/printer calibrater).
so to sum it up... you do it the same way you always have... the new filter just gives more accurate color (epically since sony was well known for their clipped reds and yellows).
...that Sony have finally conceded that "Memory Sticks" are a hopeless piece of proprietary crap and have included a Compact Flash slot.
There's an excellent source of information about what "three primary colors" actually means at of Dave Trapp's Sequim (WA) Schools science department site. There's a relatively simple explanation of how color vision works, then a facinating and highly detailed in-depth discussion of the issue.
Some interesting notes from Mr. Trapp:
* "All three [signals] are equally sensitive to blue light, two have expanded ranges that include green and yellow light, and the third signal includes sensitivity to red light."
* "While these paradigms of primary colors have worked well for human printing and light uses for over a century, it is likely that the three primary colors are not descriptive of the world, but rather an artifact of our eyes, the tools we use to perceive the world."
* "The real world does not have primary colors!"
He also discusses how the world would be perceived differently if we evolved a fourth cone, sensitive in the UV region. Very cool stuff!
Interestingly, though, he's no longer teaching science, and details the reasons on his site. Anyone who's ever been driven crazy in a class taught by a guy named simply "Coach" (and who on this site hasn't?) will sympathize with this good teacher's plight.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
I don't know if Nikon has a patent protecting that, but to just make up a plausible reason, I'd guess that the Emerald is close to, but not the same, wavelength as the standard Cyan in a CMY (or CMYK) setup.
I really hope someone does a followup paper (even white papers from one company touting the superiority of its approach to the other's) comparing these. Also, if they could explain whether RGB or CMY is better for sensing light, anyway. My gut instinct is that RGB should be better, because my junior high art teacher and high school physics texts say that light uses RGB and pigments use CMY, but surely Nikon must know something more.
Get off my launchpad!
I can't believe I'm replying to this, but it needs to all be layed out straight. This was supposed to be informative, not argumentative. SO..... here's the whole deal:
1. In a welcome break from their normal policy, Sony is actually including a CF slot. There are some features limited-- you can't record 32fps video at 640x480 on a Memory Stick or a CF card. For that, you need the faster "Memory Stick Pro". I'm having a hard time finding a CF card that will match the MS Pro spec of 15Mbps minimum write speed/160Mbps read speed, so it may simply be an innocent "CF cards aren't fast enough" problem. On the other hand, it very well could be Sony dicking us over, and it would be par for the course. As to meeting the capacity needs, there are 1GB memory sticks available. Pricey, but available.
2. The camera requires infoLithium batteries. The "infoLithium" brand belongs to sony, but a battery is a battery is a battery-- it's not like Sony has some sort of proprietary standard for moving electrons in and out of the camera. Generic replacements for infoLithium batteries are widely available (here for example, right off the top of google). You can get some big-assed NiMH AAs (2200mAh, from what I could dig up) but they will be larger, and they will not last as many charge cycles or perform as well as a Li-Ion battery. Is there a non-proprietary Li-Ion battery for consumer stuff?
Ah well. All i intended to do was point out that Sony had actually taken a step in the right direction for a change. I have a Canon, and no particular interest in Sony gear.