Slashdot Mirror


RIAA/MPAA vs. xMule Author, EarthStation 5

Two bits of news in the ongoing battle between the RIAA/MPAA and the rest of the internet: One P2P company, apparently based in Palestine, has thrown down the gauntlet to the movie industry. Meanwhile, a developer of another P2P tool who unwisely chose to live in the USA has been shut down (mirror) by the RIAA.

39 of 1,107 comments (clear)

  1. Not that it needs to be said, but by InterruptDescriptorT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    this is getting fucking ridiculous.

    It saddens me as a developer that you can't even deign to write a P2P add without the assumption that it will be used for sharing copyrighted materials and thus shut down by the RIAA/MPAA. It's really amazing to see what lengths these bastards will go to to protect their industry after a major, earth-shattering shift in their profit model.

    I urge everyone reading this to be very diligent in your boycott of buying new music or going to see movies. I haven't bought a CD in 22 months and haven't seen a movie since (believe it or not) 1999. You can't cheat and plead, just one movie! It's the Matrix! I have to see it. Nothing but the bottom line is going to get through to these people. If these folks don't get the message and soon, you may find yourself asking for permission to write anything on your machine that moves bits around.

    --
    Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
    1. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by Havokmon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It saddens me as a developer that you can't even deign to write a P2P add without the assumption that it will be used for sharing copyrighted materials and thus shut down by the RIAA/MPAA.

      No kidding, just posted to the Mandrake Cooker list:

      > > Could we get some kind of p2p solution up and running? With so many
      > > people wanting to keep a local cooker tree, it would seem self-evident
      > > that we should be taking advantage of this technology. A cooker torrent
      > > would be excellent! (does BitTorrent handle large numbers of files
      > > easily?).

      > This would kick ass. :) Especially if it was setup so that it can download
      > from multiple sources at a time to increase speed.

      So much for that idea. Although it IS copyrighted material, it's not illegal to distribute it. ;)

      --
      "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
    2. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by varith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that the entertainment industry is using dropping revenue as proof that they need to implement tighter controls to prevent file sharing. So any boycott may be backfiring!

    3. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by TopShelf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole second-hand thing could be a good option. If you buy a used CD/DVD, that doesn't send anything to the RIAA/MPAA, right?

      Back in college, I had good success buying used CD's. If I recall correctly, only once did I have a problem with skips, and the store gave me a refund right away.

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    4. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by satyap · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, if you buy the stuff, you're giving them money. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

    5. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by 3terrabyte · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Come on. If we buy their products, it only takes away cash from our pockets, and fills their pockets.

      Continuing the cycle (and restoring their profits) at this point will only encourage them and prove that their recent "tactics" work. It will also keep them in business indefinately.

      I agree that a slump in sales will allow them to blame it on P2P. But they're doing that already. And it'll only work for a little while... because as soon as a REAL boycott occurs, there will be NO WAY they can blame it on P2P. There is already holes in their correlation & stats about P2P stealing their profits away. Even bigger discrepancies will work against them.

      Not only that, but the boycott should remain in place even after they "shut down" P2P. Indie sales need to go up. Our money should go towards other forms of entertainment (computer games, etc)

      Boycotts have worked in the past. Corporations only exist to create cash. Take that cash away from them, and even they won't be able to afford congress critters anymore. Not only that, but somewhere along the line, big artists could jump ship and go with alternative distribution and marketing, which could get the whole ball rolling in a brand new direction on its own.

      --

      Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?

    6. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by operagost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now I understand the mindset of Arab Muslim terrorists, who think it's okay to kill innocent people because they're part of the evil Zionist system.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    7. Re:Not that it needs to be said, but by Sarcasmooo! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      there is your proof that P2P is hurting the industry.

      Personally, I don't care if it is anymore. If someone can tell me what is unfair or uncapitalistic about a band making all of it's money through live concerts, and distributing cheap mp3's or CD's for little to no money at all.......a situation that doesn't involve any middle men (record companies) and relies solely on word of mouth to bring the cream of the crop into the public scene (seems to have worked for websites so far).......if someone can show me what is wrong with all that, then I might consider caring about the record industry. The truth is simply that they're standing in the way of progress and technology. A tactic that hasn't worked to well in the past.

  2. You forgot something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Palestine isn't a nation, it is under Israeli occupation, and since Israel is allied with the US, it will soon extradite these people to the US so they can be prosecuted. Either that or blow them apart in a helicopter raid. There is no place in the world that is safe from RIAA/US control.

    1. Re:You forgot something... by Xerithane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't agree with the Palestinian suicide bombings, but all the evidence that I've seen suggests that Israel poses a far more immediate threat to most Palestinians than Iraq ever posed to the US; so if we're going to complain about killing civilians, let's start at home.

      I'm pretty sure that Israelis wouldn't fuck with anybody if people stopped blowing them up. I've never lived there, but talked to quite a few people who have, and have family members and that seems to be a general consensus amongst them.

      That should be their new slogan, "Stop blowing us up and we'll stop taking your land."

      --
      Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
    2. Re:You forgot something... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that Israelis wouldn't fuck with anybody if people stopped blowing them up. I've never lived there, but talked to quite a few people who have, and have family members and that seems to be a general consensus amongst them.

      That should be their new slogan, "Stop blowing us up and we'll stop taking your land."


      I'm pretty sure that Palestinians wouldn't fuck with anybody if people stopped taking their land. I've never lived there, but talked to quite a few people who have, and have family members and that seems to be a general consensus amongst them.

      That should be their new slogan, "Stop taking our land and we'll stop blowing you up."

      Which was first: Israelis taking land, or Palestinians blowing up?

    3. Re:You forgot something... by Luscious868 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Because the Palestinians don't have the option of sending in helicopter gunships to assassinate Israeli politicians. I'm not condoning suicide bombings, but your comparison is laughable. In a conflict, each side will naturally make use of the means at its disposal. Moreover israel's "targeted assassinations" invariably kill many more people than just those being targeted -- but obviously a 6-year-old girl who happens to live next door to a Hamas leader doesn't matter as much as a 6-year-old killed in a suicide bombing.

      You are totally missing the point! The Israelis never go after civilians just for the sake of going after civilians. Palestinian terrorists and suicide bombers will attack innocent Israeli men, women and children for no good reason other than to kill as many of them as possible. Why else do you think they send suicide bombers onto busses and into nightclubs? How many Israeli soldiers and politicians do you they think they think they are going to get by setting a bomb off in those places? The answer is zero. They aren't after politicians or soldiers when they set off a bomb in a public place, they are after innocent civilians specifically.

      Do the Israelis kill innocent civilians too? Yes, but it is always result of collateral damage. They never target a Palestinian bus or nightclub just so they can kill civilians. They target terrorist leaders and operatives. Sometimes innocent civilians die in the process and that is a horrible thing but it is a much different situation when civilians are dieing as a result of collateral damage than it is when civilians are being killed just for the hell of it!

      If the Palestinians would quit sending suicide bombers to kill innocent Israeli's then they could have their own state. The bottom line is that there is a certain percentage of Palestinians who do not want Israel to exist and they will continue killing Israeli's in a futile attempt to drive them out of existence. These people need be eliminated or locked up for good and the only ones that are going to be able to do that successfully are the Palestinians. The Israeli's can't do it and the Israeli's don't want to do it but since the Palestinian leadership seems either unwilling or incapable of doing it themselves then it doesn't leave Israel with a whole lot of options.

      Almost every country in the world, the USA included, would put enormous pressure on the Israeli to withdraw from the West Bank and Gazaa completely if suicide attacks stopped tomorrow and a substantial amount of time passed without any additional attacks. The problem is, as it stands now, when a cease fire is declared it just gives the terrorist's time to rebuild, regroup and re-arm and then launch more attacks. These groups must be dismantled and eliminated or they must agree to a permanent cease-fire and put down their weapons for good before there will ever be peace in the middle-east.

      If the Palestinians show a good faith effort in trying to dismantle and disarm these groups then the Israeli's must give them whatever time and assistance they may need and not resort to military action is response to terrorists attacks but allow the Palestinians themselves to respond.

      It's going to require a good faith effort from both sides. Right now though, Abbas is still trying to reason with these groups rather than dismantle them and Arafat, as far as I can tell, is probably either working with them or is totally complacent. This has to change before anyone can reasonably expect the Israeli's to try and work with the Palestinians.

    4. Re:You forgot something... by Snaller · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that Israelis wouldn't fuck with anybody if people stopped blowing them up. I've never lived there, but talked to quite a few people who have, and have family members and that seems to be a general consensus amongst them.

      That should be their new slogan, "Stop blowing us up and we'll stop taking your land."


      Of course the slogan of the other side is "Stop stealing our land and we'll stop blowing you up" - clever point there bub.

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  3. Extracts from ES5 press release by borgdows · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (...) Earthstation 5 is at war with the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and the Record Association of America (RIAA), and to make our point very clear that their governing laws and policys have absolutely no meaning to us here in Palestine, we will continue to add even more movies for FREE.
    (...)
    ES5 (http://www.es5 .com) does not require any signups, registration, credit cards and/or any other personal information to watch the first rate streamed movies like TERMINATOR 3, BRUCE ALMIGHTY, MATRIX RELOADED, etc. Our secure software protect our users who use our P2P application and there is nothing that you can do to stop us, says Ras Kabir, president of Earthstation 5 (http:/www.earthstation5 .com).
    (...)
    Ras Kabir's warning to the RIAA and the MPAA, "The next revolution in P2P file sharing is upon you. Resistance is futile and we are now in control".

    OMG! It's what I call a man who has BALLS!!

    1. Re:Extracts from ES5 press release by fault0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the Palestinian government just has a tad bit more to worry about than to shut down file sharing companies over the internet.

      Of course, given proper threats, bribes, etc.. to the right people..

    2. Re:Extracts from ES5 press release by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not admitting it, it's shouting it from the rooftops. Why the hell should they care? As the MP/RIAA apologists keep pointing out, it's not about what's right, it's about what's legal. As Palestine isn't recognised as a state, it can't sign up to the Berne Convention, and so the MP/RIAA can go screw themselves.

      The cause might be to get the MP/RIAA to strongarm the Whitehouse into accelerating the creation of a Palestinian state, so that they can start taxing it. It'd be a roundabout route, but, hey, money means a lot more in world politics than principles.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  4. Kicked off the Internet?? by lone_marauder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This guy's talking about being barred from use of the Internet as a result of a DMCA subpoena. WTF? Is this sensationalism or is there legal basis for this claim?

    --
    who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
  5. It's Idiotic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, there is a problem with digital rights management. Yes, Hollywood DOES have the right to make money. No, you do NOT have the right to broadcast their copyrighted info, and even the most fanatical, devoted, peer to peer sharing folks will agree.

    Why exactly is this on slashdot? It's not a freedom movement. In no way can it be given a good slant. It's out-and-out copyright infringement. Period.

    Even the most cockeyed activists have to see that far from making Hollywood "wakeup", this kind of thing is going to give them the ammunition they need to get more draconian laws passed in congress.

    Moronic.

    1. Re:It's Idiotic. by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have the right to do anything you want until the state takes that right away. The ES5 live in a country where american copyright is not recognized. You may argue that what they are doing is unethical. You might have a point, law does not dictate morality.

      Now users of this software may be be breaking the law, but I would argue that they are doing nothing unethical. After all law does not dictate morality.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  6. Just A Publicity Stunt by JavaSavant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't "throwing down the gauntlet," this is just a publicity stunt. They'll milk this for what it's worth from the flash in the pan they become from this press release, and then fold.

  7. Precedent against this sort of suit by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Considering that the left wing weirdoes launched the same sort of attack against gun manufacturers to deny citizens of their rights, and it was struck down that they can NOT be held liable for what the end users do, I would think that could be used in court against nonsense like this..

    I don't know if the bill was passed to bar this type of action, but the legal precedent is there at least.

    You cant blame a tool for its improper use.. or the tool maker..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Precedent against this sort of suit by fault0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > and it was struck down that they can NOT be held liable for what the end users do, I would think that could be used in court against nonsense like this..

      There was no DMCA-type of law for guns, however. Apparently stealing copyright is more important than stealing lives in this country.

    2. Re:Precedent against this sort of suit by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure, we should make guns illegal to ensure that only criminals have them.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    3. Re:Precedent against this sort of suit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently stealing copyright is more important than stealing lives in this country.

      Well, examine the costs:

      Social Security Death benefits (cost of a life): $255

      Political donations from the movie industry in 2002 (cost of copyrights): $10,498,466

      I think it's pretty obvious which one is more valuable in America.

  8. Re:Full text of article by darkov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I intend to flee if you try to arrest me.

    Not quite, I think he is saying that he has to relocate to continue his work. Let's face it. The US is a pretty fucked place to live unless you're rich and have several lobbyists on the payroll.

  9. WRONG!! Boycotting WILL EVENTUALLY WORK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First of all, Boycotting is very easy.

    You see, some of the worst movies ever made were from the past few years. (Think Gigli).

    Tell your friends about how the media industry bought off scumbag politicians and circumvented your constitutional rights with the DMCA. About how they are targetting college kids (who are eternally broke thanks to a f*cked up higher educational system in this country) - and grandmothers. The boycott approach will only show the illogic in the media industries plan.

    Also remind these fools that HIGH PRICES are the reason for slow down NOT PIRACY! Also the fucking recession might be a good reason, or a Republican in the White House (especially a brain dead former coke fiend father of slutty daughters) - ANY REASON can explain the lack of business growth in any sector.

    1. Re:WRONG!! Boycotting WILL EVENTUALLY WORK! by macdaddy357 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why blame the President, It is Congress that makes the laws. The DMCA passed the Senate unanimously, and faced little opposition in the house. Even if the President had vetoed the bill, the Congress would have easily overridden the veto. Blame the Congressmen who are taking bribes from the corporate lobbyists.

      --
      How ya like dat?
  10. Re:Anti Semitism? by zdislaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, it's a legitimate point and not just based on a dictionary entry. There is a lot of concern and discussion within Semitic groups over the western world's use of "Anti-Semitic" to refer exclusively to Jews.

    --
    bad sig...no donut.
  11. RIAA/MPAA by Ridgelift · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Trying to stop file sharing is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Every time they think they've put a nail through the heart of file sharing, it just slips off the stake and morphs into something else.

    The only way government and pseudo-government (RIAA, MPAA, etc) officials will help reduce illegal file sharing is if people choose to not download files. It's all about freedom of choice, folks. So save your money from suing people and spend it on advertising, appealing to people's sense of right and wrong. Being a bully and suing some poor college student is just kicking the hornet's nest, and begs for someone like Earth Station 5 to rise up and make what they're trying to stop even worse.

  12. Re:Nice sentiment (BIG) BUT (/BIG) by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    9. The RIAA has not changed their product/business model in about 20 years. Yes, there have been new bands, but their product, the thing that we give our hard earned money for, has not changed since the release of CDs. The MPAA has done so with DVDs and especially the extras that come with them. To me a DVD video is a much better value than and audio CD.

    It floors me that the RIAA cannot seem to make enough money to keep themselves happy, when just about everyone from 12->25 wants their products! I certainly wish I had thier financial problems.

  13. Don't starve yourself! Seek other entertainment! by autechre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are many fine forms of entertainment that aren't controlled by the RIAA/MPAA, and don't agree with them. Live near Baltimore? See a John Waters film at The Charles. Music? Dischord, Touch and Go, Archenemy, Fueled By Ramen (geeks ought to like that label). I went to see Eleni Mandell last Wednesday; it was her first time in Baltimore. It's CRIMINAL that she doesn't get more attention, as she's a wonderful artist (and really nice in person). Far more criminal than some kids depriving Britney Spears of a hypothetical $1 per CD.

    This site:

    http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/

    has a "bookmarklet" to help you identify non-RIAA bands when you're shopping online. Or, you could find the small clubs in your area (Baltimore: The Talking Head, The Ottobar, The Mojo). Check their schedule, look up the bands (who will probably have free, legal downloads). Go see the ones you might like; it's probably only $5 or so. Buy their CDs if you do like them; most of it goes to them, and the CDs are cheaper too.

    Reply to this post with your tastes if you want suggestions. I can't help with hip-hop so much, but I can with nearly everything else. And, shameless plug, WMBC will start broadcasting again in a few weeks :)

    --
    WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
  14. Don't buy in to it by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As loudly as they proclaim, "Get your Illegal Warez here, we will protect you, we got nothing but illegal sutff," I don't trust them to not be a trap for users. Think about it, RIAA/MPAA set this up, make it super duper abundantly clear that the only purpose here is to be illegal, they score a two fold victory: first their case is strengthened against P2P in general, and second, they eventually sue said company and in an "out of court agreement" come away with complete logs of who did what on the network. Now they get to really sue those people, and their case is all the stronger, "More people watched Terminator 3 on the net than went to see it in theatres!"

  15. The problem is by phorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People don't download the crap. They don't even download the good stuff to avoid getting crap. They download to avoid paying.
    Now, I'm no fan of any of the money-hungry lawsuit-happy big corps out there, but you have to use your head a bit. The RIAA business model is based around singles and one-hit-wonders. To get one decent song you want, you have to shell out for a whole CD or Album which often otherwise contains crap.

    It's not about the expense of CD's themselves... I find that a CD with 90%+ good content is worth the bucks (if it weren't funding the RIAA)... it's about getting a shitty value for our dollar.

    Now with movies it is different. Unless you go to opening night (and that's your choice) there are loads of movie reviews out quickly. The MPAA even admits that text messaging is speeding this process. Now, are these idiotic lawsuits a good thing? No.

    However, to turn the buck around, is expecting to get away with downloading perfectly good movies just to avoid paying for them a good thing either? No! The MPAA does make good movies. Over the last year I've seen lots of em (American Wedding being the latest). They were worth my cash, and if the MPAA went after users who were providing bootleg/P2P movies I think that would be great. Going after the programmers is dumb... but everyone else is trying to freeload a quality product.

    Come on people, you don't believe that anime should be "pirated", so why should movies? Want them to cost less, protest the huge f***ing wages going to bullsh*t actors or producers. Don't watch the movie. But if you go out and download Revelations insteading of paying to see/buy it... then you're no better them them... you're just being a greedy bastard.

    In summary. Nope, we don't have to pay for the crap. But the stuff being downloaded isn't crap, or at least it's in demand, or it wouldn't be downloaded. I won't be buying any RIAA music anytime soon, but I will be seeing Revelations in the theatre, as it shoudl be. How about you?

  16. Re:I'm a big fat TROLL! by tuba_dude · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If our government wasn't run by corporate intrests, we wouldn't need DRM. It's not quite on topic, but why was the BSA allowed to raid and fine Ernie Ball without direct government intervention? If they had the feds come in and do it for them, I wouldn't be quite as concerned, but when a coporate agency can enforce the law, there is a problem.

    --
    "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
  17. A thought.. by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Isn't it amazing how something so unimportant as a few studios that produce screen plays and music can drastically change the laws in a huge country full of freedom loving (wanting) people?

    The RIAA and MPAA members wealthy off our dollar. Please don't spend more money with these people unless you don't mind kissing more freedoms goodbye.

  18. Re:Nice sentiment (BIG) BUT (/BIG) by salesgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me simplify: The record and movie industry is dealing with the effects of competition.

    --
    -- $G
  19. Ah..but in 1983 you would have paid a fair price! by Newer+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    See, in 1983, before CD's came out, LP albums cost about $6.98, and tapes about the same. Then CD's came out, costing TEN DOLLARS MORE! The industry's excuse was that CD's cost more to make, "better sound forever", and other rubbish. Now we know these all were lies. CD's now cost about 1/10th as much to press as records cost at their cheapest (and I'm speaking 2003 dollars here which are worth about half of 1983 ones). CD's STILL cost almost 20 bucks apiece. The record companies' excuse is that inflation has finally caught up, which is more bullshit. In essence, they TRIPLED the price of CD's over LP's, got rid of LP's (to remove choice), got rid of singles (to make sure that you HAD to pay $17.98 to get the ONE song you liked), raped the consumer for over 20 years, formed cartels (which would have been illegal in 1983!) and now when the consumer finally has the ability to fight back they respond by bribing our lawmakers to maintain the status quo by passing the DMCA, throwing the Constitution out the window in the process. Yep..sure sounds like an upstanding business model and a fair deal for the consumer, huh?

  20. well by ShadowRage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    P2P has only created a %7 loss in the industry, that's right.. 7%. not a huge number either, and the artists who are bitching, right after they complain how they're going poor, they buy a new load of sports cars. it's crap, it's greed at its finest, people got tired of the greed and found a way to extend their middle fingers, so now these greedy companies want the government to supress the people into being a controlled permanent money flow. this is where mainstream music is about to die. what;s funny is that there was also a chart showing how much cd sales have tripled from p2p. The real problem are the real pirates, who copy cd's and then redistribute them for a lower price, etc. that's what has been hurting the industry for many years.. but, the industry didnt bitch back then.. so, I think it's just whoever's the easier target, and all that is going to happen in light of this is that the mainstream music industry is going to go broke eventually, people will get wise and listen to IUMA and indie labels. you'll still have the brainwashed people who will back the industry to the grave, becuase they're used to being controlled by someone much "bigger" than them.. and really, you think about it, the industry is below us becuase their existance relies on us. same with actors and actresses, and all of the media. same with the government and all the major companies. we made them, and they forget, we can destroy them, they're trying to make so we cant now, but, you really cant whip the human will down into doing that, well, at least, not right away.

  21. Re:Anti Semitism? by Darby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every Jew in the world understands that "Anti-Semitism" means that virulent racist hatred and persecution of Jews that has been a common thread throughout history for 2000+ years. Some Arabs are technically Semites, but Arabs get a pass from this kind of anti-Semitism.

    No, they're just called, "Dirt Nigger", "Dune Coon", "Towel Head", "Rag Head", "Camel Jockey", "Terrorist", "Infidel" and lots of other things.

    They were colonized, enslaved, hated, repressed, murdered, tortured and any other horrible thing you can think of *Just Like Every Other Race, Religion, and most likely Species* that ever lived on this planet. And you're bitching that only the Jews deserve a special word for hatred of them?!?

    Israel has no claim whatsoever on special status. If they do wrong it is wrong. If they are wronged, then it is likewise wrong.

    Fuck *your* semantic games.

    .