Gillette Pulls RFID Tags In UK Amid Protests

akb writes "Indymedia UK is reporting that after protests against the trial of RFID tags by Gillette at a Tesco store in Cambridge, increasing press coverage, a boycott, and the growing mobilisation of campaigners against the intrusive use of the technology, Gillette have withdrawn their trial. RFID (Radio Frequency ID) tags are small tags containing a microchip which can be 'read' by radio sensors over short distances (for background see SchNEWS Feature / 2 part Guardian Article)."

Comments

Are there any good uses?

[dj_whitebread]

We keep hearing about the bad uses for RFID technology, but do people know of any good uses that don't invade on our privacy?

Re:Are there any good uses?

[cliffy2000]

When used correctly, and in the right hands (if such a thing exists), it's a relatively non-intrusive technology. Yeah, it's a moderate violation of civil liberties -- but there's always freedom of choice. And honestly, having RFID tags is less invasive than a bag checker at the door, don't you think?

Re:Are there any good uses?

[phthisic]

At least I know about the bag checker.

And not being a sheep, I just walk right by them, don't even look at them.

Re:Are there any good uses?

[sonicattack]

Well, at least in Sweden, some libraries use this to allow complete self-service.

To borrow some books, I simply enter my library card into a terminal, enter a PIN, and scan the barcodes on the back of the books. When I walk out, receivers (similar to anti-theft thingies in use in stores) at the exit notice that the books leaving the premises (and now in my bag) have been correctly checked-out. Of course, if I should forget to properly check out the books, helpful personnel at the service desk would be automatically notified when I try to leave.

Now that's what I call a good use of the technology!

Re:Are there any good uses?

[Library Spoff]

I work in a library and we spend ages every week looking for mis-shelved, lost books. This technology would allow us to find them a lot easier.

Re:Are there any good uses?

[thanuk]

In the UK something doesn't become legal because a corporation puts up a sign saying they can do it. I'd say that's the way it should be.

It's this difference in attitude which makes it much harder to introduce things like RFID tags in Europe than it does in the US.

Re:Are there any good uses?

[Pig Hogger]

As annoying as the bag checker is, (think Fry's) he doesn't come home with me.

Whenever I'm ask to check my bag, I make a big, loud fuss (to make sure other customers hear it well) about "so you assume that all your customers are going to steal from you? Then, I can assume that you're going to screw me. And if you don't trust me with my bag in your store, why would I entrust you with my bag??? Congrats, you just lost a suctomer". Then, of course, I walk-out. Just did it yesterday again. And, a month ago, a store I've been patronizing for 20 years stopped doing it after I did my little stunt.

It can be pretty effective; here, we have many street festivals where the organizers search bags to make sure that we don't bring our food/beer in order to sell us their overpriced shit. But there are often stores that sell the same thing in the festival area.
Well, last year, I managed to slip past security with my knapsack - I was heading to a convenience store to buy some water and snacks for a bus trip (the bus terminal is nearby) - and one of the goons started running after me and caught up with me when I entered the store and demanded that I show him my bag.
Of course, I told him to screw himself. He then summonned at least 10 other goons by radio and they ganged up on me, demanding to inspect my bag. I loudly refused, with lots of obscene profanity as I did my shoping (and taking my sweet fucking time). When I finally lined up (there was at least 15 people in line), they demanded that I pass in front of the line.
- No way, you fucking assholes, I'm gonna wait for my turn. So I waited 5 minutes with the 10 goons staring at me (and me having snide remarks once in a while). Then it was my turn, I paid for my stuff (water, a sandwich, a bag of chips and a chocolate bar) then left, and was escorted by the goon squad to the festival entrance.

Tis year, the same festival had the fence arranged so to let people access the convenience store without entering the festival site... No doubt my little shouting match had produced some results!!!

Loudly protesting can be effective!

Re:Are there any good uses?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

Don't ever judge the security competence of the world based on BestBuy's loss prevention policies.

I worked part time at a BestBuy many years ago for some extra Christmas money. I discovered that one of the new employees was ripping the company off - severely. You know those boxes of laser printer paper that have the plastic belt/band around the box? He would very carefully slide the band off of a box, put the reams of paper for sale on the shelves, and then stash the boxes. You know those rollable ladders they keep in the IT area so they can get items from inventory up above the normal shopping shelves? Climb up one some time and take a look at how much room there is up there - more than you might think. Also take a look around for security cameras and see if any of them can see what goes on up there...

Anyways, back to the story. This guy was taking items he wanted from the 'upstairs' inventory, unpacking them and putting just the contents inside one of those empty printer paper boxes and then leaving the empty software/hardware boxes laying around 'upstairs'. After he would fill a box with whatever items he wanted, he'd close it up, put the belt/band back around the box and then carry it down the ladder and place it at the back of the shelf where the boxed paper was kept. Then, the next day, he'd come back into the store, push a shopping cart back to the IT area and load the box of 'paper' into the cart and then go check out, paying $20 for a box full of hard drives, sound cards, Windows CDs, etc.

I found out about it because the guy happened to be a friend of my brother, and apparently he didn't make the connection that since I worked at the store, it probably wasn't a great idea to detail his entire operation to my brother - in front of me.

I told my manager, then repeated the story to the store manager, and then again to the loss prevention manager. They eventually confronted the guy and told them that they knew what he'd been doing, they found the empty boxes 'upstairs, customers had returned boxes that were empty, etc. and that if he didn't immediately confess and return all the items, they would have to call the police. His response, "do whatever you have to do" and then he went back to work. One week later, he quit. No action was ever brought against him, the police were never involved. He took the store for well over $3000 in merchandise and they did nothing.

A few years earlier at that same BestBuy store, a young, male, asian customer was trying to purchase 3 laptops. Nothing too strange about that, except there had been a series of crimes in the general area consisting of asians with stolen credit cards making large purchases. The credit card was denied and when the sales clerk called the credit card 1-800 number, he was told he was dealing with a stolen card. He smiled, acted natural and asked the customer for a photo ID. The customer panicked, grabbed a laptop box and ran. The sales clerk hurdled the counter and pursued the 'customer' and caught him in the parking lot and restrained him until the police arrived and arrested him, which allowed the police to find the other gang members and bring the entire gang up on charges and take them off the street.

Pretty heroic act - too bad he got fired for it. BestBuy policy is that if you're involved in a 'robbery' you are to not resist. No weapons were involved, it wasn't a stick up, but apparently the managers felt it was in their best interest to not employ a bunch of 'John Waynes' and so he was let go. It made the front page of the local paper and created a huge public outcry and eventually the store manager reconsidered and re-hired the young man. That store manager left that store shortly thereafter.

Generally speaking, the LP guys at BestBuy are pretty good people, but the company's policies need a lot of work.

protest

[corgicorgi]

RFID tags have the potential problem of a thief scanning my house to see what I have inside.

Re:protest

[archeopterix]

So for a thief to scan your home for equipment, they must.

A) Get a suitable detector
B) Configure it to read each and every of the potential wavelengths for all RFID tags,
C) Configure it to understand the protocol(s) and protocol variations for all RFID tags in the area
D) Then, without being able to actually see limits of the area being scanned, one must scan the entire area.

E) Profit.

The cost of the RFID equipment probably gets back to the thief after the first house robbed. The potential victim has to spend the money just not to get robbed. Pretty unfair, in my view.

RFIDs are Meaningless

[jgardn]

Why are people so upset with RFIDs? The only possible reason I can see is that they are afraid of being tracked all the way home with them. That is a simple matter of removing the tag when you leave the store.

Using RFIDs will save billions of dollars a year. Those savings will translate to lower prices for you. What can possibly be wrong about that?

I think this is just another case of Luddites without anything better to do.

Re:RFIDs are Meaningless

[jgardn]

True, true. If the market bears the current prices, and a drop in costs does not change the fact that profits are maximized at that price, then you are correct.

Consider this. You are selling 300 units of an item at $3.00 everyday, at a cost of about $2.50 a pop. Every bit of research says that that is the price that you are maximizing profits. If you lowered the price, you sell more units, but not enough to actually increase profits. If you raise the price, the number of customers drops so much that profits are reduced.

All of a sudden, you find a way to sell the exact same item at a cost of $2.00! While your profits will double at the current price, who's to say they won't increase even more if you lower the price a tad?

Re:RFIDs are Meaningless

[glassesmonkey]

It's not just a UPC symbol. A RFID circuit could potentially have it's 'id' read when you move a box from the shelf. As you walk around the store, more readers could read in real-time where the box is and generate a profile of where you stopped and for how long. This could be linked to the final purchase and your credit history and past purchasing habits. They could then sell this information to other stores. Grocery stores would die for this capability and it is also coming soon to your shopping cart (and/or optical systems in the aisles).

This isn't conspiracy theory non-sense (necessarily). And it isn't sci-fi. You could implement this system TODAY with enough readers and a few linux boxes.. (I suppose you'd need a hardware interface, a database and an IT guy with a few lackeys.. probably need to make a web friendly front end.. interface with corporate database..)

Re:RFIDs are Meaningless

[ozbon]

The issue with them is that they don't turn off - it's not just tracking you 'til you get home, but then every time you wear the item of clothing with the RFID. Washing them doesn't kill them, nor (if memory serves) do magnets.

As an example, say you've bought a pair of trousers that have RFID in them. You pay by credit card (thus providing personal info on who owns that particular RFID) and walk home. If you go into another store that also has RFID readers, you can be tracked (I know this is slightly Big Brother for now, but this is what people are worried about) and because of the personal info that's already listed against that RFID, a profile can start to be built up.

Also, if you wear those trousers and go back into the store you bought them in, then you're a repeat customer - the RFID reader in the store will pick it up, and can begin to form a customer profile based on what you look at in-store.

And that's an example with just one item of clothing. The more things with RFID in, the more trackable you are. And that's why people worry about it.

Re:RFIDs are Meaningless

[Joseph Vigneau]

Please remove your tinfoil hat. Companies already do this online. They know when you look at an item. When you put it in your "cart", if you take it out, etc. They do this to make sure there is no money "left on the table". In other words, if they see you looking at product A a lot, it can offer product B, which complements A, and offer a discount on the bundle. This benefits you (by getting a better price), and the retailer (by getting more cash).

Extending this to the real world, if you go to a store and grab product A off of the shelf, there can be a screen on the shelf that offers a discount. Even further, if the system knows who you are (say an RFID-based loyalty card), if can tailor the offer to you.

Yup

[Anonymous Coward]

Back then a riot was a far more civalised afair. A crowd could assemble to riot, but before the authorities could move in and start busting heads, they had to have the local sheriff come to the riot amd actually read them the riot act. This gave the crowd the option of dispersing peacefully without charge, or staying where they were and getting into a fight with the sheriff and his men.

Far better than todays arrangment, where riot police in full body army can gas a crowd, or shoot into an assembly with rubber bullets, without fair warning or even reason.

Disposable plastic circuits are coming..

[glassesmonkey]

Conductive ink on bendable material including printable, disposable antennas seem to be right around the corner. Here's a pdf from Rochester with all the chemistry that goes into making the substrates. And an article from Business 2.0 on Plastic transistors (Google cache) and how they will change UPS tracking and WalMart's forever.

The most interesting aspect for me is that these sensors (or even on-chip flash) will be powered and read in the presence of an RF field, like how most RFID tags work. We might one day have tons of passive sensors 'waiting' to be read with an active energy source.

camera

[shakeittotheright]

the issue with this trial though was the fact it was linked to a CCTV camera which took pictures of your face when you picked up some razors, and then compared the image with your face at the checkout. that's taking things too far too soon surely? if they introduced the tags for stock-taking and basic security first, and then introduced cctv use later on etc, perhaps people would be more willing.

I can think of one - access control

[Motherfucking Shit]

I work for a contractor of FedEx. FedEx owns or rents hundreds of buildings around town, and all of them are protected in some manner or another. Most of the properties are linked up via an electronic access control system which makes use of RFID-enabled cards. The cards are called "proximity cards," or "proxy cards" for short.

The system consists of two components, a proxy card and a card reader. The readers are mounted at the doors of many FedEx buildings, and the proxy card itself is worn or held by employees. Each employee has a unique proxy card. The cards are manufactured by a GE subsidiary, Casi-Rusco.

It's an amazing system. When you walk near the door of a FedEx building, you simply wave your proxy card near (..within the "proximity" of..) the reader. The reader, which emits a signal, activates the RFID chip within your proxy card, and your card sends back its unique ID which in turn is tied to your employee/vendor code. Instantly - within a fraction of a second - the database is checked to determine whether or not you're allowed to open that door. If so, the door unlocks momentarily; if not, it remains locked.

As much as I hate "consumer-grade" RFID, it really is incredibly powerful (and, I imagine, rather convenient) in terms of access control.

Re:I can think of one - access control

[Bertie]

Yep., same system where I work. The really clever and handy thing about it is that your one card works for every single one of the company's buildings anywhere in the country (of which there are hundreds), so you don't have to faff about when trying to get access to buildings you might only have to go to once. And once you're in that building, you're still denied access to the juicy bits that you shouldn't be allowed into.

Of course, the downside is that they can track all your comings (but not goings, interestingly - generally you only use your card to get in, and press a button to release the door on your way out, so they've no idea when you're leaving...). But they've shown no inclination to make use of this information, and I don't see what they could use it for besides checking for security breaches anyway, so I'm happy enough.

Re:I can think of one - access control

[Lumpy]

It's a really old system. We've had that in the Cable TV industry for at least 6 years now.

Oh and I can read your card easily without you knowing it with a simple homebrew setup with a pic and a reader panel set up to have a much larger zone

I never chased it further than reading, but I am sure that I could with enough time emulate a card by simply playing back what I recieved on the right RF frequency.

RFID doomed to failure.

[Matrix2110]

This RFID thing is a dead horse. Shoot it and get over it. Until large companies start getting the idea that most people prefer control over their privacy, these sorts of technology will be regulated to the military and the police.

And boy, will they embrace it bigtime.

And looking at the other side of the coin, how long before somebody creates a RFID zapper gun?

*cough* Tesla *cough*

Just my two cents.

Very Interesting....

[TygerFish]

It's interesting to see people in England rejecting these things so quickly and so thoroughly. It leaves one to wonder how we will react to them if they are given a trial in the United States.

After all, part of the mythos of our national character is that we are rugged individualists who only want to be left alone, but we regularly put up with the knowlege that various private and government agencies develop and deploy some of the most sophisticated intrusive security technologies in the world (e.g., public security cameras, biometrics, face recognition, gait recognition, cellular phone location, productivity logging etc, etc, ad nauseum...) and with that often in the pursuit of genuinely base motives.

This raises a question: 'Which of our faces will we in the U.S. turn towards a technology that, for a brief interval at least, simply does away with the privacy inherent in the inability of anyone anywhere to know precisely where you are?'

In one of the messages above, someone asked if there were any good uses for the technology and I think I can see the technology revolutionizing point-of-sale technologies for credit/debit card use; possibly reproducing the scenario in the speculative IBM commercial where someone shops in a supermarket by stuffing items in his coat and walking out of the place, only to be stopped by a security guard who reminds him to take the receipt for his purchases.

Basically, if a system knows you are carrying x items of y value that belong to the store until you walk them past a point where their cost is deducted from your account, you can eliminate cashiers. Of course, what those girls who operate supermarket cash registers do with themselves after you do is anyone's guess.

One more interesting thing is that these are electronic devices that have to send a signal in order to function: they have *got* be vulnerable to something.

Perhaps part of your transaction in your point-of-sale system of the future could be frying the tags one the items to mark them as sold which would also take care of the paranoia problem.

Before anyone mentions it: buying, selling or possessing any of the Russian or Taiwanese tag-zappers that would soon hit the market would be punishable by fine, imprisonment or both.

Have a good one...

Re:RFID in European Banknotes by 2005

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean muggers will be able to scan prospective targets and only mug people who have enough money making it worth the risk

Consumer backlash and corporate reactions

[mnemonic_]

As alarming as many of the recent seemingly "invasive" technologies are, the response to consumer anger from some of the organizations which employ those technologies has been a bit comforting. Before we have seen the termination of serial numbers on Pentium 3 CPU's, the removal of DRM in TurboTax software and even Microsoft allowing OEM's to omit product activation with WindowsXP.

All of these were the result of massive consumer backlash and lack of benefits for the producer. With Gillette's action added to this, it seems that Palladium/TCPA/etc. might not be in for a very warm reception, and possibly a very quick withdrawal. And it seems that some corporations care more about consumer feelings than it seems at first.

This isn't a privacy issue

[TyrranzzX]

It's a trust issue. We don't trust them to not use the data we give them and they gather against us and in ways we don't like.

RFID, like any other tech, is generally designed to be useful. I actually like the idea of no checker, it saves me time and so long as I can still pay in cash and have a checker if I want, I'm happy. The checkers are replaced by fewer support personell, some of them are kept and the rest are put on either shelf duty or are fired, who can then in theory go and get a better edumication and help to build better systems such as space exploration vehicles or something of the like.

The problem is that corperations are notoriously cheap and they'll do anything to cut costs, including genoside, slavery, extortion, election rigging, forcing workers in different countries to compete for who works for the lowest wages, etc.

Do I want a bunch of criminals in wallmart knowing what I buy, where I live, etc? No. Any information they have is power over me and I don't trust them any more than I trust a mass murderer living next door.

So, if they can earn my trust by not being cheap and BSing us about this, then mabye I wouldn't be up in arms. Although we all know where all this grand automation is going to land us if corperations have their way; the poor house. The IT technician that gets replaced by a foreign worker now works as a bagger at cub foods, who is replaced by a machine. They then goto starbucks, where the people there are replaced by machines that make coffie, they then goto work at burger king, where a fully automated system is setup to make everything. When robots become viable, they'll be stocking shelves for us. Where will all those jobs go and where will the money go? All the jobs go away, the systems are designed to support thousands of people but nobody has any money because there's no work to be had, and the work there is to be had pays so lousy that you can barely make a living.

These people won't just die, they'll protest, violently and otherwise. They'll break into stores, people's houses, buy and steal weaponry and kill and plunder to get what they need. If the goverment does things like increase the vote percentage to get federal funding to %15 when Ralph nader gets %5 of the vote, you'd better believe they'll raise it to %30 when he gets %15, and 50% when he gets %30. What happens when he gets a vast majority? Lets just hope by then the corperations don't have a milita of their own that they can use to kill us all. I don't like how the next 10-20 years are looking at all.

i go to this actual shop every week ...

[panic_smooth]

.. because i live in cambridge. the sainsbury's across town (a competitor, for all you non-UK types) does exactly the same trick to monitor the consumer but doesn't even try to conceal their efforts behind a chip. if you try to buy the same gillette blades there you have to physically explain to an actual person that you want the blades, that you're not going to nick them, that you might want specifically the gillette ones as opposed to some in-house crap, etc etc. so let's not get too excited about an invasion of privacy simply because it involves electronics. (yes i do realise that this is /., and no i don't work for tesco).

RFID for the people a slippery slope indeed.

[ratfynk]

Just think we can slip rfid into all SSN cards. Great, then have government employees war driving around doing a kind of wild life inventory. Welcome to 1984. Microsoft SECURE computing and total control of the population. Who cares about Charleton Heston, guns and other NRA nonsense. Freedom has become meaningless, if the Government no longer reflects the will of the people, then starts to take measures to monitor all individuals movement. Somehow I cannot see any American government going quite that far without very strict privacy legislation to make this sort of technology sensible. If we do not strictly regulate all usage of this tech there will be abuse. It is too much of a temptation for the control freak bureaucrats who hide behind the sceens and survive changes in polititions (J. Edgar types) to resist!

Re:Tracking your change

[Goldenhawk]

>I can just see the next evolution in this will be to add rfid tags
>to the change they give you to track where you spend it.

You're behind the times. The EU has already proposed adding RFIDs to large banknotes.
http://www.silicon.com/news/500018/1/4 316.html
A quote from the article: "RFID [radio frequency identification] tags also have the ability of recording information such as details of the transactions the paper note has been involved in. It would, therefore, also prevent money-laundering, make it possible to track illegal transactions and even prevent kidnappers demanding unmarked bills..."

You can bet that disabling THOSE tags would be a criminal offense.

Over-the-top

[AlecC]

This protest seems to me rather over the top, tinfoil helmet to me.

Of course, if nobody does anything, RFIDs could be used to infring liberty.

But what ills are not overcome by requiring that RFIDs should be clearly marked, and removable without damaging the goods to which they are attached. On items with packaging, such as the razors, they should be in the packaging. On items without packaging such as clothes, attache them with thos little plastic tags they already use for prices and useless information about the manufacturer.

To police it, ensure that an inexpensive scanner is available which allows a domestic user to detect any RFIDs thay have not removed. The fine on the company in the event of infringing the above rules (i.e. putting hidden RFIDs im) to include an element of reward to the finder of the hidden ID of at least the cost of such a scanner.

If you then remove all IDs when you get home - no more onerous than unpacking and removing those tags, then the only time the shop knows about them is as you leave for the first time. If you paid for them, they know that from the checkout. If you didn't, then presumably you are stealing them and deserve what happens to you.

This doesn't require wholesale observance to make it destroy the effective use to infringe privacy impossible. If more people than not remove the RFIDs (as they would) the residual information becomes effectively useless.

Of course, the CIA could always attach an RFID to your backside and track you wherever - but no law or consumer protest is going to stop that.

If it works, it could allow shops to cut losses by (say) 5%. If the marketplace works, this should cut end user prices by (say) 4.95%. Which may not sound be much, but if I got a 5% pay rise today (which is the same thing), I would go home happy.