Slashdot Mirror
Open Source at TiVo
CowboyRobot writes "ACM Queue has an article by TiVo co-founder Jim Barton, in which he explains how the company relies on open source technologies to create a closed-source product. A good lesson in how other companies can do the same. From the article: Careful management of our sources to abide by the terms of the GNU General Public License while protecting our proprietary developments is a small price to pay for this benefit."
>in which he explains how the company relies on open >source technologies to create a closed-source product ... but haven't Microsoft been doing this for years with the BSD source code?
--
Craig
Quick, someone erase this article, BEFORE SCO SEES IT! (yes, its a joke)
"Sorry Im not more user-friendly."
I applaud Tivo for showing such appreciation for open source publically. As more and more companies hail the benifits of open source we might see even more developers do so, both lowering development costs and supporting more platforms. Both which are good for consumers. I myself am wedged so far into Microsoft territory that I cannot budge and every application we use for our industry is 100% Microsoft product requirements, whether it be windows or internet explorer. Hopefully continued publicity like this will improve the knowledge of alternative solutions.
But, in turn, BSD license does not warrant that it will not become vampirized by some other company. Thus effectively closing development for the software.
GPL protects from vamprires.
Maybe now they'll sue the people who wrote the code they used!
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
Why do they have any incentive to be "careful" about their use of open-source? Why not just paste it into your proprietary, closed-source application? It's closed-source, so the chances that anyone finds out are slim to nil. Of course, you have to maintain that as the company line...
Indeed, given the "business ethics? we've heard of 'em" nature of business these days, carefully shepherding one's source code to respect open-source rights is a losing value proposition. It takes resources - time, employees' attention, assignment of responsibility, meetings - while helping the company avoid a terrifically small chance of a lawsuit. Not the *right* thing to do, by any means, but probably the *customary* thing to do.
I've been wondering quite a lot recently just how much respect closed-source developers typically afford to open-source code. I think the answer is a dirty little secret of the software biz.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
Maybe it's just MSIE being wierd, but the story appeared in a really small font.
The "printable version" is far easier to read.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
It's true that Microsoft has been using non-copylefted open source code for years, but it's a greater accomplishment to segregate copylefted programs from proprietary programs.
Will I retire or break 10K?
i mean, everyone knows tivo rocks, right? so if tivo = OSS + proprietary, then OSS + proprietary must also rock. right?
(DISCLAIMER - i have no idea if tivo actually rocks or not - still trying to catch a blurry version of gilmore girls on my 1960s uhf box...)
experimental audiovideo minimalism: Rebuild All Your Ruins
Most companies, if they can, will use 100% open source to create totally closed-source solutions. The exceptions being the 100% microsoft shops, and those guy have all their profits eaten up by licenses, and "of course" they won't open source anything because the licenses restrict that they "can't". (I at one time worked as an ASP programmer and am happily a three-years now PHP programmer).
The old point was, pay for a product, you pay for support; however, this is not true anymore (just try and call MS technical support without having a license you pay $1000 for).. But something like MySQL or PHP you can easily and quickly get help in any forum..
But I digress.. the point is, most "smart" companies do this to keep costs down.
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
the developers of the Linux SMP code were as respectful of other's IP as Tivo is of GPL code!!
TiVo runs a modified version of Linux, which is protected by the GPL. Therefore, legally they have always been required to release their source.
TiVo has distributed source code for the version of the Linux kernel included in the devices for as long as I can remember.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't know why we let them get away with it all this time. For those who don't know, TiVo runs a modified version of Linux, which is protected by the GPL. Therefore, legally they have always been required to release their source. I guess the Slashdot crowd has always let them slide because they're jizzing their tighty whities over being able to watch 20 hours of Simpson's episodes in an afternoon. If we don't look out for our rights, no one will. Let's give 'em hell.
What are you talking about?
You see, in web design, the goal is to make your type as small as possible.
CSS provides an EM unit, which one could use to display text in the user's font size of choice, but this is considered bad design.
For an example of extremely good design, see my website, which I will reproduce here to avoide slashdotting:
.
Just look at all that information crammed into such a small area!
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
The sad part is they didn't get paid anything to shill for TiVo. As the parent said, the editors are just so turned on by TiVo they glady whore themselves for it.
was jsut browsing though dishnetwork.com and saw that they offer the software(minus some prop. stuff) fro thier PVR model
http://208.45.37.181/
the first relevant story since the planet/population rescue program began.
Hasn't Symantec also been doing this with their Velociraptor products?
selling hardware that forces you to pay monthly fees for unnecessary service, and leaving you with a useless piece of garbage when they finally die
I believe that TiVo has stated that if they do go out of business, they'll open the scheduling code so that users aren't left with useless pieces of garbage.
"My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Even though I have mod points, I can't find the "-1 STUPID" rating.
rather than sending jobs to india, lowering TCO is the way to go. as more companies--ie, ernie ball and now tivo--hail the benefits of open source the movement gains momenteum. eventually there will be a[nother] tech revolution......
bring it on.
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
You are aware that there's a lifetime-service option, aren't you? I figure I got my money's worth out of that a year or so ago. If TiVo does go tango-uniform at some point, there are ways to keep the machine going without having it "phone home"...it's what TiVo owners in Canada and Australia are already doing.
(Yes, IHBT. BFD.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
You may want to go check over at fool.com.. Don't have a link handy, but it had an excellent article basically stating tivo should hit profits by the quarter after next.
;-)
/.'ers actually dont watch much TV, but as a tivo-loving-owner, I have to say I refuse to watch tv without it.
:-) I heart my tivo!
Realize that to most people, once the hardware costs are paid, 13$ a month is more than fair to watch tv on their own schedule, as opposed to having to sit down at prime time
Of course, dont get me wrong, I suspect a great ## of
(Especially after finding the 30-second skip hack!)
I like being able to work in the office whenever I want, come home, watch this mornings babylon 5, the evenings StarGate, and maybe just a little scrubs...
So if nothing else, SCO keep your hands off
TiVo doesn't sell hardware. They sell a subscription service to some end users, and they sell the TiVo software to hardware manufactures that want to make a non-crappy PVR (including several cable and satalite providers, DirecTV in particular).
"In general, all open source software in use at TiVo, with the exception of public domain software, falls under the GNU Public Library License."
GNU PLL?
In general, I don't know what the license thingamajig is called but I will write an entire article about it.
Can anyone tell me... If they are going to create a closed-source product, why did they go the Linux route, instead of using (Free/Net/Open)BSD?
I am at a real loss to tell what the advantage is... In a non-embedded environment, it's reasonable, because you want to support the greatest ammount of hardware as possible. But with an embedded system, they only need support for one TV-capture card, one video card, one network card, etc. They aren't using any stock Linux software, it's all custom.
In fact, the things they say were needed in the article, (performance, stability, good vm) are unarguable better in the BSDs.
So why do they use Linux? Not trying to troll, just wondering what advantage it really has in such an embedded system.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
The whole SCO fiasco is what a dying dinosaur looks like.
Just wait, expect similiar bullshit from the RIAA as they reach their death bed.
Soon to be followed by the MPAA.
My TivO -- One more machine I better make sure I write that $699.00 check to SCO for.
Damn there goes next weeks lunch money.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
"Between their broken business model (selling hardware that forces you to pay monthly fees for unnecessary service, and leaving you with a useless piece of garbage when they finally die), and cable and satellite providers coming up with PVR hardware for free plus a monthly fee that's cheaper than TIVOs, I'm surprised they still exist."
They provide a kick ass service and you're surprised they still exist?
"Derp de derp."
You are my new favorite troll. Congrats.
I think it is interesting that TiVo says they pay a lot of attention to the security of the device. That is true now, but with the first TiVo devices, getting a BASH prompt on the device turned out to be relatively easy. On boot a menu was available on the serial port with a hardcoded password. Using that password you could make all kinds of changes to the way the machine started up.
He also metions talks about people getting around using the service. For years, the TiVo hacking community has known how to partially emulate the service by creating slice files and manually loading them onto the device. Recently hackers have figured out how to get an unmodified TiVo to use a service emulator. What's interesting about these development efforts is that they are not putting TiVo out of business.
In the article, he makes no mention of the goodwill that TiVo has fostered with their users, even their hackers. Soon after TiVo was created, Richard Bullwinkle, their former "Chief Evangelist" started talking to people on bulletin boards. He was always very helpful and forthcoming, with only minor exceptions. He wouldn't talk about bypassing the TiVo service and he wouldn't talk about extracting video from the device. If you didn't talk about those things, he was perfectly happy to help out. Although TiVo was in business to make money through their service, they didn't screw over people who didn't want to subscribe. That's such a treat from a for-profit company. Imagine Microsoft, who also sells their set-top device at a loss, treating customers who don't want to use theirs for gaming without hostility.
When Andrew Tridgell, (the same guy who created Samba and rsync) figured out how to create TiVo slice files so he could use the machine in Australia, it was probably this goodwill which made him choose to not release the info to the general public. Instead, it remained a closely guarded secret.
Today, years later, the people who have followed in Tridge's footsteps, have refused to destroy TiVo's revenue stream. They have been very careful to try to make sure that only people who can't get TiVo service in their area are allowed to get around it.
I think the goodwill that TiVo has is partly because of their general attitude towards their customers (and towards the hacker community) and partly the fact they used open-source software, and followed the license requirements. And, it is this, not their security measures, which have ensured that they've maintained a revenue stream -- despite using the "razor and razor blades" pricing model.
I just wish Mr. Barton hadn't used a loaded term "service theft" to describe people who are using their TiVos without subscribing to the service. That term would be appropriate if people were downloading TiVo data without having a subscription, but not people who are simply choosing not to subscribe and are finding alternatives.
I'm not RMS, nor do I speak for him, the FSF, or any of the Linux kernel copyright holders. However, you appear to misunderstand a significant point about the development of the GNU Project and GNU/Linux in particular. There's nothing foolish about requiring compliance with the generous GNU General Public License, particularly nothing foolish about insisting that people cooperate in the commons the GNU GPL builds for us all. Nobody is more important than anyone else in this partnership (including Tivo). It is Tivo's job, not ours, to find a way to make money with GPL-covered programs if that is their desire.
Perhaps you aren't aware that the GNU Project (and the continued development of the GNU/Linux operating system in particular) is not about achieving mere popularity at the expense of user's freedom to share and modify. From this essay:
And this essay:
Digital Citizen
>> "13$ a month is more than fair to watch tv on their own schedule, as opposed to having to sit down at prime time"
Gee, I've been doing that with my VCR since 1984.
And even if you could, and you used them, you would have given them up by posting here.
and we are careful to give the credit to those engineers that build that code but we just don't modify any of it. I'm sure most companies benifiting from open source are using it in the same way we are. If we were in need of modifying some of the Open source packages it would most likley be a bug fix and everybody is into submitting bug fixes to the open source world. right? Besides it's so easy to just use OS packages call them or making objects that wrap OS code I can't imagine why you would want to actually cut and paste open source code into your closed source app. Maybe I'm just not malicious enough :)
I like things that are sweet and not things that are lame. --
You are my new least favorite troll. Congrats.
I actually do love my TiVo. As soon as I get an iPod, I will love that too. Companies that take the time to make a great product are wonderful.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
I said it in 1996, I'll say it again:
"Keep the tools open and free: Make your money from developing applications."
Mr. Butler and company have done well following this philosophy.
Great article too.
Everything in the Universe sucks: It's the law!
Even if we belive them, we have to hope some other company will come along and hope it's profitable to continue to rape the idiots who bought TiVos.
Tivo applies this mantra really well. They sell their hardware and their software with a very thin margin, and make their profit from the service. The modules thing seems to me like a detail, but whoever has the copyright of the kernel has the last world. As Linux and most kernel developers say it is OK for Tivo to do that, there is no problem.
Have you tried Internet Explorer on Wine? This site has a large list of instructions on how to get different "windows only" applications running with Wine (including IE).
I just had blazing success with Paltalk. The harder it is for you to use Linux in your niche, the more significant an accompolishment it will be when you are finally able to go 100% Windows free.
Best of luck!
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
With the lifetime service option, you just lose that much more when TiVo fails. You're even more a fool for buying that because TiVo won't allow you to tranfer the account if you replace the box, even if it breaks.
I don't accept your hacking solution. You're saying "see, the company isn't so bad because we can just break their security and commit a criminal act (under the DMCA, even if they do go tits-up) it's a good product". That's like saying "my bank is very customer friendly; after I robbed it, it factors out that I'm getting very good interest".
Tivo's are great but I have issues with the company itself. We've been waiting for Tivo here in Canada (and other countries , ie New Zealand) for a long time. I don't think it's their obligation to provide service here but they haven't really haven't done anything to help. There currently is a community of Tivo users outside of the service area who hack the Tivos so we can load our own local listings. We'd gladly pay for the service if it was available, since it's a hundred times easier to use this service than hack the Tivo. I wish they'd support some sort manual updating. Could they give back a little to the open source community? Of course I could be wrong...
But the hardware costs *are* what you're paying to watch TV on your own schedule. I have a better deal for you. Pay me $10 Million; I will buy the house next to yours, live there, subscribe to TV guide and record on DVD-R whatever shows you tell me you like whenever they're on. When you want to watch them, you can come knock on the door any time 24/7 and I'll give you the DVD. I'll only charge you $6.50/month for this service. That's a great deal because once the start-up costs are covered, it's half the price of TiVo.
I feel so strongly about this just because I would love to have a PVR, for the use I'd get out of it, the price of a TiVo + "lifetime service" is a bargain; I'd happily pay it for a PVR. The problem is the TiVo isn't a PVR, it's a personal rip-off device for gullable fools. It has less functionality than a $60 VCR. (I can't just enter the time and date to record a show without having to buy into the long-term future of the company). Why should the 30 second skip be a hack? My VCR marks the commercials as it records and then automatically skips them during playback; I don't even need a 30 second skip. The fact that it doesn't do that natively is just furtehr proof that TiVo is not for the idiots who buy them, it's for the content providers.
They provide a useless service at a horrible rip-off of a price, and force anyone who wants to use their (admitedly nice) hardware to sign up for the service. As I said, I'd happily pay the price for the hardware+service contract just for the hardware if it were a standalone device. The fact that it requires service destroys any value.
I can go into a store and buy a piece of TiVo hardware. You're merely proving my point that their business model is broken.
At best I'll be modded as Offtopic, or at worst, Troll, but:
What is that icon supposed to depict? I know it's something related to these kinds of discussions, and so have sought out other Web pages dedicated to free software and the like in the hopes of finding a larger version of it so I can divine what it really is.
But for now, it looks like a turd having delusions of being a Viking, with tomatoes for feet, clutching a blanket a la Peanuts' Linus, and a gape something like that of the more clueless characters from Dilbert.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
The article gets some concepts profoundly wrong when it comes to discussing licensing (which is at the heart of the article). These items may confuse readers not already familiar with copyright law and the Free Software community.
Toward the bottom of the article "Public domain soft-ware [sic]" is mentioned and the "X Window System and BSD operating system" are cited as "notable" examples. Then the article mentions a "license limitation" that is only true for the old BSD license. This clearly illustrates the author is confused about what the public domain is and that works cannot be both licensed (as these examples are, under different but largely similar licenses) and in the public domain. Placing a work in the public domain is not a license, no matter how liberal the license's terms may be. Putting a work into the public domain is the irrevocable abdication of all copyright power over the work.
The terms "Linux" and "GNU/Linux" are used interchangeably, as if they both refer to the same thing (early in the article "Linux" is meant to refer to an operating system, later on "GNU/Linux" refers to an operating system). The GNU Project asks (and simple fairness requires) that we give GNU a fair share of the credit for their work in the GNU/Linux operating system. Technical precision requires us to distinguish between the Linux kernel and a GNU/Linux operating system. To these ends, the GNU Project publishes a FAQ on the issue of naming GNU/Linux, and an older essay.
Finally, just to be clear, the Open Source and Free Software movements are not the same. They have different philosophies, they began at different times, they were started by different people, and they speak to different audiences. The GNU Project's essay on the two movements and their social implications is helpful.
Digital Citizen
The GPL *IS* a contract. By taking a certain action (making a copy for distribution), you agree to its terms. At that point, it most assuredly is a binding contract between you and the copyright owners'.
The original poster is not entirely accurate either, simple "confusion" is not enough. Both the "confusion" and the counter-party's selective interpretation, must be both reasonable and equitable. Otherwise...
You get exactly: SCO.
" The fact that it requires service destroys any value. "
Right.
"Derp de derp."
Greetings Fellow "beneath your current threshold" Readers:
/., but according to this article: "SCO wants $32 for each embedded Linux device" on eeTimes:
Not that I do not read enough about SCO on
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030806S0025
"The $32 fee applies to any embedded system regardless of whether it is a Tivo set-top box which uses embedded Linux or some models of the Sharp Zaurus which also use that kernel."
and Nobody mentioned it here.
I was thinking about this too. Microsoft has already started edging towards TiVo's turf with its Windows Media Center (Sony has co-branded their own DVR that runs the Tivo software).
So the thing I'm wondering is: will we see Microsoft use the same tactics it used against Netscape in a "DVR War" with Tivo - resulting in the crash and burn of Tivo and a assertion of "superiority of closed source" by Microsoft? Only time will tell.
I find it interesting that you have already convinced yourself that you will 'love' something even thought you have yet to purchase it...Unless you meant sticky love.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I find it funny that so many people replied to you to defend TiVo so passionately. Their model seems as bad as anything MS does, but because people like their shiny toy, they not only overlook it but defend it.
Jason
ProfQuotes
Dude, you expect me to pay you $10 million dollars plus $6.50 a month to hire you to be my personal TiVo? Why would that be a better deal than the real thing at $399 + $13/month is a better deal? Where did you take math classes, California? Let's not forget the added inconvenience of actually having to interact with you.
Are you a liberal? It's the only reason I can think that it's somehow unsatisfactory to you that other people like, enjoy, and are willing to pay for a TiVo even though you don't. Get off your high horse and be content to let people decide for themselves features they expect for their money.
How do I lose anything more? I paid $200 ~3 years ago. At $10/month, I broke even in less than 2 years. Since then, I've continued getting service for my TiVo at no additional cost. Without lifetime service, I would've paid more than twice as much by now and would still be on the hook for more money every month (especially when you factor in that they now charge $14/month). Please explain how this is a Bad Thing.
What's in there that can break?
The hard drive? I've already replaced that because I wanted something bigger. I've also made backups of the software after each update, so if the replacement drive dies, I can swap in a new one.
The modem? I added Ethernet to mine to pull updates over my cable-modem connection. If I didn't have that, a $5 cable and one of the three external modems I have (all of which are currently gathering dust) would fix that.
Those are pretty much the only problems people have run into with their TiVos.
Take off your tinfoil hat. The only crime would be if you cloned a serial number from another TiVo or took some other action to pull subscription data from TiVo's servers without having paid for service. If you're creating slice files or setting your LAN to redirect TiVo traffic away from their server and to your own server that provides compatible service, you're not doing anything wrong...DMCA or no DMCA (besides, the DMCA is unconstitutional and therefore null and void anyway, regardless of what the ??AA would have you believe).
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
you obviously aren't a TiVo owner. Like AOL, TiVo is a company that has consistently beaten Microsoft in a market they've invaded. They make a great product and they support Linux. Now what are you complaining about again?
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
If you're creating slice files or setting your LAN to redirect TiVo traffic away from their server and to your own server that provides compatible service, you're not doing anything wrong...DMCA or no DMCA (besides, the DMCA is unconstitutional and therefore null and void anyway, regardless of what the ??AA would have you believe).
Creating slice files or setting your lan to redirect TiVo traffic is a felony according to the DMCA. The fact that you don't accept a law doesn't mean you can break it. It's your opinion that it's unconstitutional since it hasn't been ruled on, and I don't see you rushing out to be the test case.
If you go into a store and ask for a TiVo the salesmonkey will know what you mean and sell you a Sony or a Phillips PVR, but you're not really buying "a TiVo" any more than you buy a Windows or an Internet when you get a PC.
My point was that TiVo isn't necessarily in competition with the settop box manufactures you say will drive them out of business. Some such companies are choosing to roll their own software, but they universally suck when compared to the real thing. And if anything, they're good for TiVo, somebody with a crippled PVR is a lot more likely to realize the value in a good one than someone who thinks TiVo's only useful function is to pause live TV.
And yes you can use them without the service. They revert to dumb DVR mode (time and channel) if you cut them off from guide data.
But you said once the hardware costs are paid off, the $13/month is a good price for what the hardware is doing. I'm offering you superior functionality (I come with a voice interface) at a lower monthly price. Or are you going back on what you said before and saying the up front costs do count?
And how would Tivo supply the guide data for the next 20 years if the box were a standalone device? You are welcome to buy a box (at least my series 1 worked this way), lifetime service, and not hook it to a phone line. It'll bitch at you about not having guide data, and be mostly useless (little more useful than a VCR), but it will work.
The fact that it requires service destroys any value.
Yeah, that's what I hate about the local restaurants. I'd frequent them if they'd just let me buy the ingredients and use their stoves, utensils, tables, etc. I hate having to pay them to cook the food for me. What a rip-off!
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Your series 1 will work quite well as a standalone, they changed the rules after that, so if I buy one now and pay for the lifetime service and don't hook it up, all I'll have in an overpriced doorstop.
The restaurant is a service. A PVR is a product. TiVo is neither.
If next week's lunch money is $699, I think you could use a diet.
Well, it is $13/month versus your time. Your time to keep track of which show is on which tape, to rewind/FF to the beginning of the right show, to figure out how to tape over shows you watch and so forth. Your comment is like an really old-time PC user saying "why would I want a disk drive when I can save to cassette tape?" It is true you can save to tape, but disk drives are a lot more convenient.
Your choice.
Ok, so their business model is to sell the hardware at cost and make money on the service. First of all, this is the same buisness model as a ton of other industries (cell phones and video game consoles come to mind). Secondly, it makes sense since otherwise you would have to shell out a ton for the hardware, which would discourage people from buying it, especially if they aren't sure if they like it, and because the product is somewhat useless without the service, which allows for easy taping of shows via current show listings.
I have blog like everyone else
SCO keeps saying kernel 2.4 - TiVo uses kernel 2.2
Yes, we did get hardware from VA Linux lo these many years ago. Decent hardware, decent prices, convenient availability, etc. They did include and have configured the requisite drivers for their specific hardware in their "distributions." They had hardware support for the weirdo (at the time) high performance disk arrays and things we wanted to run.
Also, as they crashed and burned, didn't they mutate from a hardware supplier to some kind of software supplier? I don't recall that part of their history, since by then we were back to custom PC hardware running, as Jim said, mostly RedHat derivative distributions.
To give you an idea of how long ago that was, I think PIII-550s in a 6U rack were the cutting edge back then. They had these cool-o blue LEDs.
Sure, but you have to realize there are many methods of working around the GPL and LGPL licenses. Dynamically linking code at run-time etc.
I used to work for a company that made a "closed source" open source product based off of linux. I will not say which one, but trust me, the idea is this: "Release any unworthy crappy code back to the open source community to keep them quiet and make sure they don't think we are hiding anything, and everything else under the sun, dynamically link or do whatever you have to do so we don't have to show the world shit!".
That is the way of the warrior.
- Vawskel!
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
Please don't do that, it hurts everyone. Sure Mozilla is better than IE, what isn't? The people who made that silly IE only site argued that "everyone uses IE anyway". By changing your user agent, you help convince them that it's true.
If you absolutly must have something that a company wants to share, but has such a site, pick up the phone. Chances are they don't know they are creating a problem for customers. Once they know, they can turn on the dummy that set them up. If they say something stupid like, "just go get IE," you don't want what they are selling anyway. Banks, government agencies have all moved to public standards. They did this because they realized that the Microsoft jerk around never ended and every time M$ jerked, 1/2 of their customers could not get what they needed.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
This is all well and good about how TiVO runs, and the basis for their hardware...
But what I REALLY want to know from TiVO is why they don't offer service in Canada yet.
Canadians = People who love TVs
We'll put up with idiot politicians, tax increases, poor canadian dollar, less than thrilling economy, but we'll fight to the bitte end if anyone screws with our TVs.
TiVO would sell REALLY damn well here, but there hasn't been any official info about why it's not released here yet, and when it might be.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
How does piracy come into it?
Thank you. It's blindingly obvious in hindsight. I appreciate the time you took to explain that.
********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
Perhaps you could consider a Tivo like a Gym Membership, or a golf club membership. You pay a fee to join (purchase the tivo box), and then you pay a monthly fee for continued use. Only unlike a gym membership, you can resell the tivo box.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
here in the UK. Sky is plugging their Sky+ box like mad, it costs the same per month to subscribe as my TiVO and yet it can only record 'some' series, has only 20 hours of capacity with no chance of hacking it, and reports from owners I have spoken to show that it is very unreliable. Nor does it have wishlists, suggestions and all the other cools stuff that TiVO offers.
I wish Sky had chosen to go with TiVO for their box, and I wish others would do the same. Why must they always create their own poor imitation? Is it to be able to be closed source? Do they fear that going with TiVO would somehow result in GPL taint?
Sadly today you can't buy a new TiVO in the UK but the service continues, why wouldn't it? Money for old rope once you have a user base.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
I think that Tivo is missing an important benefit of the open-source development model. If they were to make their own source available to developers, they could benefit from substantial improvements to their system. For instance, I would love to see Tivo's program guide tied in with a rating system like IMDB, or for someone to improve their "Smart Recording" system to capture more than just idiotic sit-coms (e.g. how hard can it be to notice that I only watch IFC and Sundance?). It seems to me that Tivo could open up their code without letting the cat out of the bag w.r.t. their service model. (I mean, the Tivo hackers already know how to enable the lifetime subscription mechanism -- but how many everyday users are able to figure out how to install it?) Perhaps they could develop an emulator for external people to prototype improvements.
First, you should consider posting with an account (even one tied to a throwaway e-mail address, if you wish to preserve your anonymity in that way). Slashdot makes it very easy to skip over most anonymously posted articles, such as yours.
Second, I can find no source to substantiate your claim and you have not posted any. On the contrary, I can find information where RMS (which is who I'm guessing "he" refers to) supports the switch of some of the Ogg Vorbis code to a new BSD-like license (this also appears pertinant).
Digital Citizen
IANAL, but the DMCA does contains exceptions for reverse-engineering for compatibility reasons. Wouldn't this seem to qualify?
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
It's not a compatibility reason though, it's to circumvent a protection scheme (and circumvent their primary source of revenue). The DMCA definatly prohibits that. Remember the 21st century US law is based on protecting flawed business models like this.
I've never heard of a gym membership that works that way (only ones where you pay the monthly or annual fee). I'll take your word for it that they exist, but I would never join one. I have hard of lifetime memberships to a gym where you pay the upfront fee to join but then there's no addition fees. I'd object to that for the same reason as I object to TiVo with a lifetime service contract; if they company folds, you lose your investment.
I don't see how the process of obtaining schedule data could be viewed as part of any copyright protection scheme. (Except maybe on that schedule data itself, but using substitute data wouldn't be breaching the copyright protection mechanism...) But IANAL, so...
And just to be pedantic, the DMCA is late 20th-century law, not a 21st-century law!
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay