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Learning to Say No in the Workplace?
Ummagumma asks: "I'm trying to find out how those of you who work in the IT service industry, tell customers 'no', when the requests are unreasonable for whatever reason. There is a culture here of 'piling-on' work with regards to IT - and, unfortunately, I've never learned the proper way to tell people 'no'. It may sound simple, but in this economy, where jobs are tough to come by, I don't want to be seen as the impediment to getting things done Any suggestions on telling people that their work request can wait? Especially in a way that won't jeopardize my future here? I've searched the web, but most of the sites that supposedly have information of this type just want you to sign up for their seminars. I'm looking for actual, real-world experiences, and how the people of Slashdot deal with this issue on a day-to-day basis."
"Here is my dilemma: I'm a relatively new employee (~2 months) at a software engineering shop. I am the sole IT person for a 100+ person company, with 50+ remote VPN users, 40+ developers, 30+ servers, firewalls, etc. I do it all, from desktop and application support, to security, to servers. In the past, the IT department has been seriously under-funded, and there is an absolute ton of catch-up work that needs to get done. At this point, I could work 70+ hour work weeks for a year, and still not be caught up, between project work, upgrade, documentation and day-to-day stuff.
I've inquired about more IT budgeting (staff, equipment, etc.), and that just is not going to happen for quite a while."
Don't say no. Give estimates. Show your time table. Put the onus on someone else to fit it in, so they are clear on what the tradeoffs are going to be. In my line of work, things got complex enough that maintaining a Microsoft Project document was worth my time. The visual output was well received with management.
I've told customers in the past that we're not taking on any new clients until our production system has been upgraded to handle increased workloads, and in almost all cases they were willing hold until we were ready. They appreciated the fact that we weren't spreading ourselves too thin, risking long term failure for the sake of padding our short term coffers, so just tell the truth.
Is simply lay out the time. Say, "Yes i will do it, once i have this done as well as this" No need to say no, just show them that for you to say yes will require them to wait for it to get done an unreasonable amount of time. They complain? Then you may get staffed correctly soon enough:-p
The BOFH will show you the way to happiness and funds whenever possible.
Make sure you have a list of priorities from your boss.
Follow the list.
When someone asks for a low priority task, let them know that your boss has chosen your priorities and you have three months work before you will get to their task.
Try to help them to get their task done themselves quicker than you doing it.
Of course you will probably not be thanked for this. Peter
If you can get support from management, you can do anything. Unfortunately that means you end up at their mercy if they still want you to do EVERYTHING. Not much to do about it there.
At my last job I would often be asked at 5:20pm to do dumbshit stuff like get a full OS reinstall done on a half dozen machines in a department that needed an upgrade. No amount of explaining that this is not just an extra half hours work would mean a thing to those above me. If it were a one off I'd be fine with it, but from day one my job consisted of staying back insane amounts of time to get these things done, when the people who used the machines had set hours that never varied. No overtime either.
I ended up quitting, and while you might not consider that an option, if it comes down to working yourself dry and being used/abused then it's an option. Get on management until they relent, to get another IT person if you need. If you don't do it now changing later is all the harder. Hell, you're new at this job - do you know if the last person quit because of insane expectations like this?
In almost every type of employment, your job is to make sure your supervisor is satisfied with your work. Their job is to oversee you and make sure you're doing a good job for the company.
Now, if you drop that into the guise of any client-oriented job - be it law, medicine, IT, or even a lowly customer service job - satisfying customers is not your primary and sole responsibility. You have to balance each client's interests against those of the company, other clients, and the priorities of your boss.
If a client is expecting too much, your mission is not to do everything they say - that's a great way to throw your priorities out of order. You're letting them detract from your other responsibilities. If you don't feel right telling them that they're not your only client, then apologize, tell them that you have other duties as well, and refer them to your boss. Let him deal with it. That's why he makes more than you do.
Really - I can't stress this enough. Keep your boss up-to-date on what you're doing, and let him guide your priorities. If anything or anyone is straining those priorities, let him deal with it.
It's really that simple.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
We avoid this problem with a simple rule: Any work for "the techie" for has to be passed by "the techie's boss." Really, for anything not sopmewhat urgently needed, only management-level personnel should be able to assign longterm tasks.
After all, your manager is supposed to, well, manage. And if not him/her, then a project manager of some sort. Any decent sized corp I've worked for had one of those. If you're getting snowballed with lots of work, then at least those above will be aware of it, and more can be done to manage your time.
It was called Fight Club, I think.
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
I will share with you a tidbit of wisdom from those of us in design: keep track of how you're spending your time. Keep a detailed record of what you are spending your time doing and who is asking you to do it. Show this document to your manager and have them prioritize your time so that there are some rules in place. Managers are there to make sure you can do your job, make them work for a change.
I'm reminded why I bill hourly now.
The right way is to propose and alternative.
Scenario 2
PHB says - "I want X done asap".
overworked IT engineer - "No problem, which one of A,B,C,D, .... W would you like me to hold off on while I do X ?"
PHB ... goes away and does not come back until it's more important that A...W
Scenario 2
Customer - "I have this way out idea that will really be cool to do !"
Overworked engineer saya - "Fantastic, you know, we have a procedure for new projects, go fill in the form and we'll prioritize it".
Customer goes away and forgets the crazy idea.
Most of the ways to deal with anyone it to give them your problem. If you do this then you filter most of the nonsense. The golden rule is to never say no but to "Prioritize"! No-one will ever complain that you don't do your job if you are "prioritizing!".
You'll need to speak management speak (and that means Powerpoint and Project) to get your point across.
Make a list of all the existing items. Put them into some form of project timeline (Mr Project, MS Project). Show the dependencies, requirements, funding estimates and man-hour estimates.
Make management assign priorities to tasks. I don't mean broad categories like "high" and "low", but actual numerical order. No equal priorities.
Generate a nice GANTT chart that shows you'll finish sometime around 2015, if and only if no new projects crop up.
You need nice pretty charts and graphs with lots of primary colors and some nice page-transition effects to catch the attention of most management types.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I've recently become development manager for one of our company's products. As such, it has taken a while to find my feet, both when interacting with sales & consulting internally, and when interacting with customers. I certainly erred on the side of saying yes too often, because I wasn't sure about saying no.
Not anymore. For me, it took mistakes, stress, and all sorts of complaints directed at myself or the company, whether or not it was my responsibility. It is this realisation that sometimes, I need to say no. People do get pissed off at you when you say no. But your job isn't to please people, it's to get a product out the door (well, for me it is, anyway).
So, you learn to say no when from the experience of getting a yes thrown back in your face.
dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
Instead of taking the full weight of the decision, why don't you tell your manager that clients want A, but you already have B, C, D in the queue, and ask the manager to prioritize these items for you. Something will have to be delayed, maybe it will be client's current request, or maybe one of the things that were previously in the queue, but you won't be the one deciding what gets delayed.
.02c.
If you are in the position of power, then you should have enough power to make a decision without fear. If you are shaking in your boots, then shift the burden to the client by letting the client prioritize things for you. Obviously this is complicated if you have more than one client. Then you'd have to get them all in a room and have them talk it out.
The rule of thumb for power is that power should match your responsibility. That means, if you are, say, responsible for cleaning the floor, then you must be empowered to move things off the floor, to access cleaning supplies and so on. If you are a manager and it is your job to prioritize items and yet you are not empowered to say "NO", then something is terribly wrong, and perhaps, your project is going down the tubes anyway, and you should look for another job. Alternatively, you can just shut up and sort of roll with the punches and hope that clients will drown in the endless bureaucracy (let the thing that's holding you down hold your clients down as well) and eventually run out of steam. It really depends on the environment you work in.
The only diplomatic way I could find around this was in a prioritization scheme based on adverse impact. For instance, network issues supersede server issues, server issues supersede workstation issues, workstation issues supersede printer jams.
My initial problem was in trusting my clients to be understanding enough to "get it". To my surprise, when I laid it out, they were amazingly receptive, as most of them knew when it was their turn to have a network or server problem, they'd be at the top of the list.
I'm not sure how well that will play out in a corporate environment, but like my customers, your users may be more understanding than you are willing to give them credit for. You are one IT person. Everyone in the company can count to 1, I'm almost sure. They're also keenly aware of how out-of-whack the user/nerd ratio is. Conservative (read:CHEAP) companies will let it get to 70:1, users:nerd. Good companies will go 40:1. Exceptional companies will go 20:1.
I don't envy you your job, you've got to focus on efficiency. Good luck to you, it'll probably be either highly rewarding or we'll all see you on the 6 o'clock news pinning down your coworkers with an assault rifle. Let's hope for the former.
We all get along together like tornadoes and trailer parks.
Leaving a job in this economy is a fatal error. You won't get unemployment insurance (or food stamps) and you won't find another job. Nobody will care that the expectations were unfair or the working conditions intolerable. Put up with it somehow or become a bum. Your choice. I speak from experience.
Most of the comments in this thread are entirely accurate. Do not say no, but rather, document exactly what tasks you're doing, ask your manager to prioritize, and have customers go through him/her to get to you.
If your manager is unreasonable, you will have to do the prioritization yourself. Most important, though, is that you very clearly document the time estimated and actual hours spent on fulfilling a task.
What I have also found to be extremely useful (consultant, yeah yeah...) is, before starting a task, outline the actual task deliverables. When finished, do a quick writeup on what you did, who it was for, how long it took, etc. Doesn't have to be long, just look reasonably nice
This takes a bit of getting used to and initially may seem like a waste of half an hour per task, but I have yet to speak to anyone in any level of management who didn't appreciate that sort of thing. It gives them concrete proof of what you're doing, it gives you a paper trail to fall back on when people claim you don't have enough to do, and it makes your boss look good, because they have something tangible in their hands to present to their management.
Also, though I know it's not entirely relevant, it helps me to occasionally look at Stokely's Golden Rules of Consulting. It's more geared towards independent contractors, but contains some very wise principles.
Whatever happens, don't get frustrated. I guarantee you, eventually your customers will begin to understand that everyone and their mom wants you to do things for them, and will learn to stand in line. And my experience has been that when something is truly truly earthshatteringly urgent, they become even more appreciative if you can bend the rules a bit. That's how we kept a fairly extensive bar stocked during my last operations role
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
Say "I'm inserting that into my prioritized queue of tasks to be done in slot #98, right behind fixing the mail server virus filters..." Your problem is you're letting people's new requests take too high a priority.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
As far as the customer is concerned there are three elements that concern them. Time, Quality, and Money.
On any product they can't have all three. Example: If they want it quick (time) and the want it cheap (money), it will be lacking in quantity. Or If they want it cheap, and they want qulity, the delivery time will be long.
Saying "No" is not always the answer. But if you explain how their request will affect the one of the three elements (time, money, quality) they will either:
A) Give you more money.
B) Give you more time.
C) Expect less at delivery(cut-corners)
D) Withdraw their request.
And everyone wins.
You probably already understand one of its key points (or will very soon): it's not sustainable for you or anyone else to work more than about 40 hours, week in, week out, without turning crispy. Work is different from time in front of keyboard or slumped in your chair. You can rack up a lot of hours north of 40/week, but in the long run will have almost nothing to show for them. Additionally, the book will tell you how to say no, as you requested.
One more thing. If you are supporting 100 people, then your days are unquestionably one series of interruptions crashing into each other. There's strong practical advice here about how to minimize interruptions, and work toward having an environment in which you can actually get something done without having to use "hiding" tricks. One of the stories in the book is about a developer who was so bugged by interruptions in his cubicle that he took to working in a toilet in the men's room for an hour at a time. I hope you aren't near that point yet.
Here's the book at Amazon: but you can get at the library, and probably faster.
Myself and my co-worker work for an educational services company. We manage a smallish network of ~150 UNIX machines and are responsible for maintaining them, the network gear, and network security. We also solve every problem that the applications developers can't figure out (which amounts to a lot). On top of that, we're continually striving to improve our network infrastructure. We're often dragged into meetings to plan and develop infrastructure upgrade projects.
Management's priorities are all over the map, and priorities can change every hour. This makes life incredibly difficult for us.
Our solution was to grab a big-ass whiteboard (you know, 4 feet tall, and 16-feet wide) and write down all of our tasks. No real detail... just enough to indicate what the task is. We mark which task we're currently working on. Whenever management comes by to give us more work, we take them to the whiteboard, write down the task(s), and insist they prioritize what's on there.
The amount of incoming work was enough to keep four people busy. We spent 2 hours daily discussing priorities with management. All tasks were important enough to keep on the board, and our Ops Manager maintained the priority list.
Then one day, the whiteboard filled up.
Management got the hint when we insisted on a second whiteboard. Instead of providing us with a second whiteboard, there's now whitespace available on the first board.
Just keep a list of tasks at hand, and make sure your manager knows what you've got on your plate. If you're given a new task, insist that he looks over your current list and assigns some priority.
I had an insane boss once, each day as business started he'd roam around the office for his morning ritual, he made each employee look him straight in the eyes and say "No" three times in a firm but neutral voice. If he didn't like how you did it, he'd make you do it again. Yep, he was totally nuts.
Simple: Lawyers, Plumbers, and Car mechanics are viewed as professionals. They charge an exorbinant rate for fixing things. In business and at school IT is freely given out like candy. When folks aren't used to paying for something, they assume that it in fact costs nothing.
It also doesn't help that we (myself included) are often all to eager to volunteer our help. If we as an industry were populated by cynical and legalistic mercinaries we wouldn't have these problems.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Seriously, this is basically all there is to it. Use whatever calendaring software you have to break down what you're doing on a daily or weekly basis, if not hourly. Even a recurring to-do list is good. The idea is to show that your time is not an infinite resource.
If you can sit down and say something like "I can make time for this project this month, but it will require moving back those security updates for a week, and the database migration for a few days. Also, we're running low on shared drive space and there's no budget to augment the servers, so to add this in, I'll have to put everyone on a harsher quota for the next few days (and delete your mp3s off your shared drive)," and show how your time is mapped, they will see why they can't reasonably expect you to take on more work.
You'll also be able to get more actual work done, because the mere act of organizing your regular activities will let you see ways to cluster them for more efficiency ("oh, while this disk image is copying, I can hit that next item on the list, replace the video cable on that secretary's computer so she'll stop holding my mail hostage"), etc.
Also, at the end of six months or a year, maybe you can use the resulting log as evidence that you need an assistant or a pay raise or both. It's also good for remembering what to put on your resume, if your small company decides to lay you off and replace you with two kids who just graduated and also happen to be related to the VPs...
Get off my launchpad!
Entry level jobs on the other hand are very scarce. I would not want to be a college grad right now.
Now amount of stability is going to save you from burnout. You have to be your best advocate of your interests, health, and safety. Employers often rely on you to let them know when enough is too much. Great employers never let things get that far. Places to leave are the ones that ignore your needs.
And I don't buy for a minute that the economy is that bad. Especially for network admins. Just pick up the want ads.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
given an appropriate allocation of time, money and resources.
:
There are a number of things that are key
1) agree with senior management on broad priorities
2) draw up a list of what needs to be done
3) re-order the list in terms of the agreed priorities
4) present the prioritised list to management, and have them agree to the priority
5) Give an honest indication of how far down the list you'll be able to get
Go off and do stuff, and report progress on the list and re-prioritise the list say once a week, with their input.
IF they are half way decent as a manager, they will rapidly understand to either accept the level of capability they have, OR accept the need to increase that level of capability to meet their performance expectations. If they can't arrive at conclusions similar to these, in general you should be looking to work elsewhere.
If they want X to be done, explain what is really needed to achieve X. If some or all of the pre-requisites, give a honest estimate of how that will impact their timelines.
Oh - and plan on, and only commit to, 35-40 hours of real work per week per person, otherwise you'll burn people out, AND have no spare capacity to surge to meet the occasional urgent deadlines.
Another thing that can help, is to help filter the crap out, by getting agreement from management for allocation of resources to issues.
No system is perfect, but if you can demonstrate an understanding of the businesses needs and priorities, and be up front, but constructive, about the implications of meeting those, you can often say no without really saying no.
I was in your situation about 10 years ago with my first ever IT job. I agree with posts recommending a project plan, keeping your boss informed of what you're doing, and also escalating impossible work requests to your boss to manage so that you do not look like you are being overly obstructive (just busy!).
:) This CAN backfire if you do it too consistently, as people will start to think you don't have enough work to do, or that you are pretty poor at managing your time... but if you have 100 users, you can try it at least once on all of them :)
At the end of the day I tend to forget what I just spent 12 hours doing, so write everything down as you go along, and mail this to your manager at the end of the week, so they are aware just how busy you are.
BUT - my main area of expertise is DEFINITELY the route of underpromise and overdeliver. This is a technique for making yourself look more efficient than you really are. So - a user asks you to come and troubleshoot - say a missing share they used to have set up on their workstation. You know you can get round to them in 1 hour. Tell the user you will definitely come to see them in 2 hours time. Turn up in 3 hours and the users unhappy. Turn up in 2 hours and you've met expectations. Turn up in ONE hour, and hey - you're an hour early - RESULT! The user is v pleased that he is important enough for you to see quickly! User is happy. Now you knew all along you'd be one hour... but you've managed the perception of the user effectively, and he's a lot happier because, at the end of the day, you've psychologically out-manoeuvred him
Couple more things - when you helldesk phone rings, smile when you answer. You can hear it in your voice, and you will come across as a happy + confident employee, even if you're the opposite. This gives people confidance in your abilities, and they will enjoy dealing with you - and this costs you no time or effort. The more highly people think of you, the better your life will be.
Remember people. This is easy for you - I work with 5000 people, you only have 100. Bear in mind that at the end of the day, everyone wants to be adored *no, really they do!*, so you can use this to your advantage in a smaller way - treat users nicely, ie: as if you like them, and they will generally like you back. People who like you generally will let you get away with more... how much more quickly would you forgive your best mate letting you down, compared to a stranger?
I know none of these are super-practical tips, but you've already had tons of them - I promise they'll all make your job more enjoyable!
Good Luck.
Although my experience is slightly different because we are customer-based and not internal, our approach is to say "it will cost you". Then, if they insist it can be done faster you outline the risks. If there's money at risk they usually capitulate, but if they make unreasonable demands, the only thing you can do is go along with it making it clear you're not comfortable. At the end of the day it's 'their' money and 'their' responsibility. If the problem is that they expect you to do more hours than you think is reasonable and won't hire help then the problem is not how to say no - it's your unreasonable employers.
PS If anyone knows an OSS MS Project replacement that can do all this stuff, please speak up. I've been dying to replace it for ages, but it's a really good fit for this particular problem space
DotProject is almost there, still in beta tho but ive been using it for a few weeks and its perfectly usable.
Keep a list of all assigned projects, whether on a web page for all to see, or on a whiteboard, and make damn sure everybody knows where it is. Get priorities assigned, not as in TOP but as in position on the list.
... body bags, medicine, ammunition, combat rations, fuel .... and the ensign got all huffy and backed down.
...
Here's a little story you might find enlightening, the importance of priorities in keeping requests under control. This is relevant, very relevant.
I worked with a guy who was an air force loadmaster in Vietnam, early 60s. He had some scut job at the main Saigon airbase. They used to extract carriage fees from shipments of steak and whiskey going up to the officers club at Cam Ranh Bay. One day, some ensign showed up, fresh as a daisy, said there were pallets going up to the club, and he was in charge of making sure they arrived intact, and demanded they be sent up on the next available plane. My friend had been in too long to give a shit about some wet behind the ears ensign, and furthermore, had the distinct attitude of What Are You Going To Do, Send Me To Vietnam? So he slapped a bunch of clipboards up on the counter, said fine, you tell me what cargo you want to take off, sir, and we'll see that your steak and whiskey gets up there right away sir. Now what will it be
That's the end of the relevant part of the story. Remember, make the job assigner decide not TOP priority, but where exactly on the list, so when other people complain, you can point to new jobs added above theirs. The goal is to get the suits hassling each other, not you. Don't argue with them. If they berate you, just say you need to know whose jobs to bump down the list. Be quiet and form, you need to know the positional priority.
OK, the rest of the story is more fun, not as relevant, but may help you to remember this trick.
The ensign demanded that someone stand guard over the pallets of steak and whiskey. My friend just sneered at him, Sir, you have a sidearm, why don't you use it? And the ensign did, he stood gaurd over the precious pallets for some time, until some crusty old chief, who had spit more sea water than the ensign had ever seen, showed up with a case of whiskey under one arm and a case of steaks under the other, slapped them down on the counter, and the pallets went out on the next flight.
There's a moral to that story to, but it's probably not a good idea to start taking bribes to shuffle your boss's priorities
Infuriate left and right
>>I've searched the web, but most of the sites that supposedly have information of this type just want you to sign up for their seminars.
There's a great book "Rapid Developemnt" by Steve McConnel, I recomment every developer/project manager to read it. I remember reading a good section on how to say 'No' in a professionl way.
He has a bunch of exerpts and articles here:
http://www.stevemcconnell.com/
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
These are the guidelines that help me achieve my goals, and my boss' goals, without going nuts in the process.
I can't stress this one enough. ALL requests for work should come through your trouble ticket system. Mid and Long-term projects don't need this as they should *only* come from your immediate boss.
Having everything in writing allows you to keep track of who requested what and when. It also leaves a paper trail should the user/client claim you did not meet their request on time/to spec. Last but not least, it enables you to justify your time management.
I know this sounds like a verbal wank, but it's true. If a task is not important, don't prioritise it above those that are. Keep in mind that your priorities are not those of your boss, and your boss' opinion of your work is really all that matters as far as doing well goes.
To be happy and successful in your job, you need to meet the priorities of your boss. If there's something that needs doing and it's not your boss' priority, make it one. Do this by explaining what it is, why it needs to be done, the impact on the organisation/yourself/your department/whatever if it's not done, the urgency and why it's so urgent.
When you're working on very important tasks under ultratight deadline, put your phone on "do not disturb" and ignore email. This helps your concentration greatly and, bottom line, if it's important enough people will walk into your office to see you. This is doubly effective if you're trained your users to do everything via TTS or email; they'll be reluctant to ask you in person, knowing you usually tell them to repeat it all in an email. Thus they'll only come to you when it really is important.
Following the above point, your prioritised list of tasks is sacrosanct - stick to it! The *only* tasks you should even consider inserting into the priority list you and your boss have previously agreed on, are those that can be classed as "DoMeNowOrElse". Before you class something in this way, ask yourself "would i be willing to do major (>2hrs) overtime to get this done ASAP?" If they answer is yes (e.g. downed email server), then it's worthy of insertion into the priority list. Also keep in mind these insertions should always go above existing priorities - it'll help dissuade you from arbitarily adding tasks because someone other than your immediate manager says they're urgent.
Meet once a week with your boss and ensure your priority list is still relevant with his needs. He or she usually knows much more about whats going on and what's important at a strategic level, so while you may think disabling that ex-employee's account isn't more important than upgrading a mailserver, your boss may know different.
This may sound silly in a discussion about workload management, but it's core to everything you do as a sysadmin. Remember that the only time most people see what you do is when they come to you with a request. They dont have the vaguest clue what your job entails - the difficulty, the hours, the stress, none of it. All they'll remember is the grumpy way you dismissed them with a "no" and went back to working on your "DoMeNowOrElse" task. Which to them of course looks like you're just goofing off at your workstation. While this seems the easiest, I find this point by far the hardest to stick to.
And, last but not least, remember this phrase: "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part". But don't ever say that to your users unless you can figure a nicer way of putting it
Janie took my gun...
Geography and flexibility may have a big influence on that. I have about the same amount of admin experience as you, plus network engineering experience (mostly Cisco) and live in the southern half of California, which is where I'm from, although I spent a number of years abroad and just returned to California in June.
:-p
Bad time to get into a bad job market? Yes, absolutely, although signs of recovery are around. For the first month or so, I only applied for jobs in my county (which, due to population distribution, effectively meant jobs within 30 miles of my parents' home, where I'm crashing on the computer room floor while I search for work). Things were tough. No calls, no interviews. Not many places even send form rejection notices anymore.
About that time, I decided to broaden my search to include all major job markets in Southern California. While I didn't really want to move, I didn't want to stay unemployed, either. As a result of that broadened search, I've had two interviews in the last three weeks. The second one, just last week, was a waste of my time. The company I interviewed with first made me an offer today, and I've accepted it. I start in two weeks, as soon as my boss gets back from vacation.
I have to move about 100 miles away, and I'm not getting the kind of money I would have seen in SoCal a few years ago, but I'm now employed and the money will get better down the line as the economy does.
In closing, to respond directly to the comment to which you replied, it's true that there are certainly ads out there for sysadmins and network engineers. The problem is the ratio of positions to those seeking positions. There are a lot of unemployed sysadmins, underemployed sysadmins, and poorly paid sysadmins out there who are all applying for those jobs. The competition is truly intense. In my entire life, I have (before this job search) only rarely failed to get an interview anytime I applied for a job, and was subsequently hired in almost every case. My overall success ratio was about 80%. I've never experienced anything like the current job market. Since mid-June I've applied for over 50 jobs and only had two calls. Granted, one of those two hired me, but the ratio of applications to calls was still terrible. That's more jobs (by far) than I've applied for in my entire life previously. I have a job now, but my success ratio is shot
Yeah, so've I. But what's the point? It's not maintainable over any real length of time. Personally, I prefer having a life outside of work, and that's never going to happen when you work that hard. And, what are the rewards for working stupid hours? Stress? Fatigue? More work? Effective pay cut?
In my experience, and observation of those around me, it's really hard increasing a 40 hour week to 50-55 hours. Adding 12 hours probably only adds a further 8-10 of real work. Beyond that it gets easier as most people are then unable to maintain a life outside work too. However, adding 10 hours more probably only adds a max of 5 hours real work, and it's gets worse as the hours pile up. Tired people are slow, mistake-prone and unproductive. Furthermore, once social life outside work stops, people start getting the social contact they need at work. They stop for more short chats, joke around more, etc. It's great for the work environment and back-slapping cliques, but it's not good for productivity.
What do you do? Work to live, or live to work? Do you work ridiculous hours just to make somebody else rich, or do you have your own business? Sorry, but this whole macho "I work more hours than you" routine is just stupid. It doesn't garner any respect from me - it means you have no life and are probably somebody else's whore.
Thanks for the great story, and dead on to boot. Upper management types are usually not planners per-se, they are *negotiators*, and unless you find a way to push back you're going to get fsck'd.
stirring the pot since nineteen mumblty mumble...
If you get in trouble for saying "No" to unreasonable requests, maybe it's time to find a new job. If you can't do something you have to flat-out say it can't be done, and why. If you can't do something under a clear conscience, then you have to tell them no, and why you can't do it.
The crappy economy forced me to essentially become an IT contractor, which, let me assure you, beats the hell out of "would you like fries with that?" I worked at small organizations that had a max of 2 servers and maybe 10 workstations, all running a version of Windows. The longest I had stayed in one place was 3 weeks, and that was due to numerous problems left by the IT guy they recently fired. At several points in time, I was told to make all the administrator level passwords the name of the company because that was easier, and that I should do the same on the server, which holds all their client billing information, basically everything important. They also wanted the server accessible from the outside easily, so they wanted me to install a remote desktop server on this ancient NT server. When I started there, I basically told them they were wide open to an attack and to secure the computers with the name of the company as the password is asking for problems. This wasn't what they hired me for, but I could not, in good conscience, leave things the way they were, and they were glad to pay me to fix the problems they didn't know they had.
There were also several things they wanted fixed that I just could not fix. They wanted me to fix printing problems their custom software was having, and make it stop constantly crashing. Not having the source code, and being a not-too-great programmer anyway, I could not fix coding problems and told them flat-out, "There's nothing I can do to fix that problem, I can tell you why it's not working, but there's not a thing I can do about custom software." They understood this and contacted the guy who wrote it, end of problem for me and the company.
Many times (let's be realistic, 99% of the time) people requesting different IT related things have no idea what they're talking about or how to use what they're requesting should you tell them they can have what they want. In my scenario I suppose I had it easy at a couple organizations since they were contractors too, and basically understood that when you don't know how to do something, you pay someone that does. It took several days to get them to accept that they'd have to remember 8 different characters if they wanted to be secure.
That was just one problem though, I pointed out they had no backup plan and that a fire, or a malicious 12 year old on the other side of the world, could essentially shut their business down in a matter of minutes. This was what convinced them it was something to take seriously, and they started to listen when I said "no, you can't do that, you're asking to get screwed by doing that."
If you're having a problem telling someone you can't do something, or that they have unreasonable expectations, you need to relatively quickly find a weakness in the plan and tell them why what they want is bad. If the people have no idea what you're talking about when you say "leaving protocol/program/box X open like this creates a security flaw," then tell them the same thing in terms they can understand, such as "if you leave this open and something happens, you could lose all your billing information and you wouldn't know who owes you money." or "This could put you out of business if you leave it the way it is."
What's dangerous is saying yes to every request, reasonable or unreasonable. If you adopt the attitude that "eh, it's not my problem if they get cracked" then you're potentially risking the jobs of everyone employed at that company, yourself included. If you don't see a problem with that, you must be one of the people who developed security for Microsoft.
Please excuse any poor wordings of this, I just downed a double dose of nyquil because of the damned flu.
this response is good as far as it goes, but what if you are the boss?
a former manager of mine let me in on his favorite response: tell them just what it will cost.
"OK, i can do that. however, if i do that now, as you request, it will require [# of people] about [period of time] to address properly. that means [x], [y] and [z] projects will slide b/c there aren't enough appropriate resources, the ramifications of which are 1, 2 and 3. this puts me in conflict w/ [manager 1], [manager 2] and [manager 3], all of whom were waiting for [period of time] until this is done. perhaps we should all of us should discuss this so my staff's allocation can be budgeted more effectively."
more often than not, the querant cannot take on one or more of [manager 1], [manager 2] or [manager 3] and it addresses about 90-95% of the issues that cropped up. the remainder of the time however, a discussion was needed and sometimes, the querant's issue was addressed.
this means that you absolutely have to have that information at your fingertips, if not at the tip of your tongue.
ed
Time estimage guidelines:
... 1.2^10 = about 6, so 10 x (1.2^10) = roughly 60 days = 12 weeks = 3 months.
New programmer fresh out of college: Take his estimate and multiply by 8x. Yes he could get it done in 1 day, assuming he got so cranked up on caffeine his eyes stopped blinking and he worked on that (and nothing else) for 24 hours straight. In the real world a newbie can dedicate about 2 real hours doing a particular task each day, the rest is spent coming up to speed on corporate coding standards and libraries, email, breaks, and not 'in the groove'.
Veteran programmer of average skill, single person project : multiply his estimate by 3x. A third of his day is spent hand-holding the newbie, and another third is spent hand-holding management. The other third is spent programming, but luckily he knows to pad the schedule some (not enough, but some.)
Veteran programmer of uber skill, single person project : multiply his estimate by 2x. This is as good as it gets. A uber veteran programmer knows to leave his email client closed and his door closed so he can stay in the zone. He knows to pad the schedule more than he really thinks he should. And it still takes him twice as long as he expected.
Multiple people working on the same project : increase the timeline by a factor of 1.2 per additional person. If two people ought to be able to do it in 10 days it will take 12. If 11 people (10 additional) ought to be able to do it in 10 days it will take
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
I told someone no, I wouldn't create a system that used a Social Security # for a login, and a badge number for a password... no no no. Had to do a sit down with my boss, their boss, and their boss... and I explained that 1) that information is definitely NOT secret, and 2) it was unethical to use information like that... it could compromise other aspects of the employees lives.
and I got fired... for "breach of ethics". apparently "pandering to a customer's silly whims and tantrums" is an article of ethics in that crowd.
meh
I'll try not to sound too much like a therapist.
Basically, no one has the right for any reason to violate your emotional and mental boundaries. Given this information, any employer who would expect you, the only IT employee, to work miracles on a budget with 70+ hour work weeks would either be insane, satan, or taking advantage of you.
In any of these cases in it not right. I assume you are salary which means you work whatever they tell you too. They can fire you because they feel like it. And basically, you owe them for giving you a job in such difficult financial and job market times.
Therefore, here is a practical solution. Explain to your customers, clients, employer and co-workers that you are one person doing the job of several. You are more than happy to get to their requests (which I can assume are typically easy user account resets, PC checks, LAN crawls) but to please be patient. And if you must tell them "No, I cannot do that." Be sure to add, "No, I cannot do that right now. I have too much work to do. Perhaps we can revisit this at a later date."
Keep in mind you do not want to upset them. So yelling "NO!!! GO AWAY!!!" as the BOFH would, while quite humurous, and honestly quite theraputic, would probably get you fired. You want them to be considerate of your time and your work so please be considerate of theirs (and it sounds like you are, otherwise you wouldn't be so willing to do the work and find it so hard to say "No.")
I hope this helps.
Rivendahl
... there is nothing that has not already been thought