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Apple Sued Over Rendezvous Trademark

Posted by pudge on from the i-sue-you-sue-we-all-sue dept.

bdsesq writes "The Register is reporting that Tibco is suing Apple over the name 'Rendezvous'. Tibco has owned the name since 1994. It seems that Apple doesn't want to pay what Tibco wants."

35 of 97 comments (clear)

  1. Rendezvous? by Alex+Thorpe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So can a company trademark single words in a foreign language? What do the French think of this? I'd think it'd be like trademarking a word such as "travel".

    --
    "Common Sense Ain't" -Unknown
    1. Re:Rendezvous? by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Informative

      depends on what their rendezvous was.

      it's not like you can start making apple computers and except apple to stay out of your biz.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Rendezvous? by speechpoet · · Score: 4, Funny
      I suspect the French hold anyone in disdain who doesn't reserve the word "rendezvous" for one of the following meanings:
      • moonlit trysts on a Paris rooftop between a bitter nihilist revolutionary fugitive and his naive yet somehow worldly girlfriend, leading to their violent deaths in a bloody shootout with the gendarmes as their bullet-riddled bodies plunge into the Seine.
      • musketeers, fleeing Richelieu's spies, furtively exchanging the princess's ransom with a man they believe to be a lowly messenger but who reveals himself to be - mon dieu! est-ce que c'est possible? - the true king himself!
      • the moment when the melted chocolate merges with the whipped cream, freeing the aroma of the cognac and reminding the palate ever so delicately of the bitterness of the foie gras that began the meal, only 14 hours auparavant.
    3. Re:Rendezvous? by RazzleFrog · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's wrong. Microsoft lost the case because the phrase windows was already a common term in user interfaces BEFORE Microsoft received their trademark. It is similar to prior art with patents. You are very much allowed to trademark ordinary words. By it's very definition - "A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others (source: USPTO.

    4. Re:Rendezvous? by RazzleFrog · · Score: 4, Informative

      You really don't understand how trademarks work do you? You can trademark anything as it pertains to a particular specific business. Apple has a trademark and I think Apple is a pretty common word. So are Ford, Dodge, Gulf, Sears, Target, etc. Trademarks exist to help protect both the consumer and the company from confusion. The company doesn't have to worry about its rebutation being soiled by somebody selling a inferior product under their name and a consumer can be secure in knowing that if it has the name of the company then it belongs to that company.

    5. Re:Rendezvous? by MacGod · · Score: 2, Informative
      So can a company trademark single words in a foreign language? What do the French think of this? I'd think it'd be like trademarking a word such as "travel".

      The commonality of the word is not the issue. If you're unsure, try creating a piece of software and call it "Windows".

      The issue is whether the two similarily-named products can be confused with one another; for my money (IANAL), the answer is no. This reminds me a lot of the whole Microware OS-9 lawsuit from three years ago. I hardly think Apple has anything to worry about.

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
    6. Re:Rendezvous? by chrispy666 · · Score: 4, Funny
      you forgot :

      my foot having a rendez-vous with your ass, sacrebleu.

      --
      Music is the language of the heart, the sound of the soul. -Joe Satriani
    7. Re:Rendezvous? by chrispy666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, in French, "rendezvous" doesn't mean anything.
      The correct way to write it is "rendez-vous".
      I'm pretty sure Apple did that on purpose.

      --
      Music is the language of the heart, the sound of the soul. -Joe Satriani
    8. Re:Rendezvous? by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 2, Informative

      Trademarks exist to help protect both the consumer and the company from confusion.

      Exactly, but that's why you can open a Macintosh Restaurant or sell Apple Jeans. When you operate in a completely different business, there can be no confusion and hence no trademark infringement. Now, it's up to the jury to decide whether "business messaging" and "zero-configuration networking" are completely different - or not. Methinks they are.

    9. Re:Rendezvous? by speechpoet · · Score: 2, Funny
      I also forgot...
      • Zut alors! It seems I left the 'yphen out of rendez-vous!
  2. Humph... seems obvious by Badge+17 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The "Rendezvous" software of Tibco is messaging software. Apple's is networking configuration. There doesn't seem to be any real attempt of Apple to capitalize on Tibco's reputation (because, naturally, Apple is some upstart company trying to leech off of the mighty Tibco...).

    After all, wasn't this case sort of settled with the battle of Apple Records versus Apple Computer - there's not likely to be confusion in the products, and the Apple Records name had a hell of a lot more influence than Tibco does now.

    A couple more news stories on this, more reputable but not much more information:
    http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON -20030828-000863-0816
    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/?http://www.pcpro.co.uk/new s/news_story.php?id=46737

    1. Re:Humph... seems obvious by killerc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The "Rendezvous" software of Tibco is messaging software. Apple's is networking configuration.

      Rendezvous is mainly a networking/peripheral configuration system, but it does possess messaging components via iChat, so it's possible a judge could see significant overlap between the two products.

    2. Re:Humph... seems obvious by WaKall · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, both Rendezvous's use UDP multicast on the network. In fact, you can write Rendezvous (Tibco) apps and run them on disparate platforms on the same network with 'Zero Configuration'. There is enough gray area that this will go to court unless Apple settles.

      I have a feeling that
      a) the Judge will be telling Apple to pay a lot of money
      b) Apple will pony up some cash.

    3. Re:Humph... seems obvious by ruprechtjones · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm a die-hard Jobsian fan, but I have to side with Tibco on this one. They've had the name since 94, they are now owned by Reuters, and they've got their niche and a solid product. Apple should quietly settle, change the name, and hope that their investors won't look too deeply into this. Sorry, but they could've resolved this years ago, why the arrogance?

      Here's some good info on the company, and what this is all about.

      --
      Kip Hawley is an idiot.
    4. Re:Humph... seems obvious by andrewski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My question is this: what's wrong with zeroconf? That's the IEEE's name for the same technology.

    5. Re:Humph... seems obvious by Frightened_Turtle · · Score: 5, Informative

      "...but it does possess messaging components via iChat..."

      Actually, this is a little inaccurate. Rendezvous does not have messaging components. Nor does Rendezvous use iChat for messaging.

      Rather, it is iChat that uses Rendezvous services to discover who is on the network, and then lists those people accordingly. In a very basic summation, all Rendezvous does is check out a network and see what is available for networking, and then makes that information available for other programs to use.

      If Rendezvous does have user-to-user messaging capabilities built into it, then I would agree that Tibco has a case. Nonetheless, even if Tibco didn't want to, they would still be required to sue Apple based on current copyright/trademark laws. They must defend their trademark and demonstrate efforts of having done so. Not doing so invalidates their trademark and makes it available for everyone to use. (This is why you see McDonald's suing some small restaurant now and then over the "McDonald's name. They aren't trying to be mean, they have to do this or they lose their trademark.) Let's face it, if you're going to sue, you might as well ask for money. At the very least, it covers your legal fees if you win.

      It will probably go to court, unless Tibco is doing this to get free money. Should it go to court, the finding will most likely be that Tibco's product is a messaging system like iChat, and not a network discovery service like Apple's product, and therefore there is no market overlap between the two products. Thereby, there is no trademark infringement.

      At the very least, this is free press for Tibco -- this is the first time I ever heard of them.

      --


      Whew! This water sure is cold!
  3. No confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A major point of debate in trademark disagreements is confusion. Will Apple's use of Rendezvous be confusing to people who are familiar with TIBCO's use of Rendezvous? The answer is clearly no: TIBCO's Rendezvous is a messaging solution that's part of their enterprise blah-blah-ware system. Apple's Rendezvous is a network configuration and service advertisement technology. The only thing they have in common, and I mean this quite literally, is that they both involve computers.

    No case. Five gets you ten the case never goes to court.

    1. Re:No confusion by Stigmata669 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, Apple's Rendezvous also has a messaging componant in iChat, so there is a shred of a case.

      --
      Yawn.
    2. Re:No confusion by lightspawn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Will Apple's use of Rendezvous be confusing to people who are familiar with TIBCO's use of Rendezvous? The answer is clearly no: TIBCO's Rendezvous is a messaging solution that's part of their enterprise blah-blah-ware system. Apple's Rendezvous is a network configuration and service advertisement technology.

      As someone who's had to struggle with (Tibco) Rendezvous documentation, let me assure you that confusion is very likely even if you've never even heard of Apple's Rendezvous.

  4. Never Mind That by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The USPTO website shows 22 hits for the word 'RENDEZVOUS'

    The oldest being Mother's Cake & Cookies Co. (1966)

  5. Re: Apple Sued Over Rendezvous Trademark by justforaday · · Score: 4, Interesting

    maybe apple should just go back to calling it zeroconf. that sounds so much cooler anyways...

    --
    I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  6. Simple solution by McAddress · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just rename it iRendezvous.

  7. Whats with that name, anyway... by fok · · Score: 3, Funny

    I cant even sey 'rendezvous'!!!

    --
    \m/
    1. Re:Whats with that name, anyway... by MacGod · · Score: 3, Funny
      I cant even sey 'rendezvous'!!!

      That's OK, you can't even spell "say". Or "can't" for that matter.

      Incidentally, it's pronounced "Ron-day-voo". If you want to put a proper French sound to it, roll the "R"

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
  8. Looks like a cash shakedown to me by ZackSchil · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple isn't even selling Rendezvous as a product! It costs nothing to implement and its specifications and quite a bit of example code for it are open to the public to use. I don't see how Apple is capitalizing on anything when there is no capital involved, except perhaps that which was used to develop the technology.

    1. Re:Looks like a cash shakedown to me by RazzleFrog · · Score: 3, Informative

      Selling is only part of it. Here is the whole law:

      (1) Any person who shall, without the consent of the registrant--

      (a) use in commerce any reproduction, counterfeit, copy, or colorable imitation of a registered mark in connection with the sale, offering for sale, distribution, or advertising of any goods or services on or in connection with which such use is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive; or

      Now I am not sure that it causes confusion but it clearly covers distribution also. Otherwise the open-source community wouldn't have to care about infringment, would they?

  9. Correction by Curt · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tibco has owned the name since 1994. It seems that Apple doesn't want to pay what Tibco wants."

    Actually, that should read Tibico claims to have been using the name since 1994. Not owns. It is not a registered trademark, they merely applied for it. The process is not complete. In fact, they only filed for it May 21, 2003.

    Tibico's Rendezvous

    Apple filed for the name Rendezvous on May 6, 2002.

    Apple's Rendezvous

    Do I think this will really be a problem for Apple? No more than OS-9 and Mac OS 9.... at least those were both Operating Systems, in some sense.

    1. Re:Correction by RazzleFrog · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're right. But check out this one from TEKNEKRON. There's is from 1995 and it says:

      br.
      "Computer software and associated documentation to assist in data communication in networked computing systems using client-server and peer-to-peer communication techniques."

  10. Of course they can. English words too! by werdna · · Score: 3, Funny

    You know, like Apple, owned by Apple Computers, for computers. Like Apple, owned by Apple Records, for records.

    But NOT Apple, for pie!

    Like Be, for operating systems. But probably NOT for philosophical services.

    So long as the mark is used in a distinctive, non-descriptive fashion, the mark can become proprietary on the day it is first used in commerce.

  11. Rendez vous! by MainframeKiller · · Score: 2, Funny

    Funny thing, "rendez vous" also means "surrender!"

    Now, before you make jokes about France and surrender, I'm not French!

    --
    http://www.club977.com/ - The 80's Channel!
    Your source for commercial free 80's music!
  12. Apple has done this before... by CptTripps · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few years back Apple decided to call their new internet service "iTools" a name that Tenon had a TM on for 2 years at that point. Apple's response? "We can both use it...they are different."

    I'm not sure if it was because of Tenon that Apple changed it to ".Mac" but it was a pretty shitty thing to do to Tenon. iTools is a great product.

    --


    My .sig can beat up your honor student.
  13. Once again, let's not jump to any conclusions! by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 3, Funny
    OK, OK, it looks bad, but come on. I don't think we should hasten to blame Apple for this, even though somebody else owns the trademark. As one of the great trademark and patent attorneys of the 20th century, Gustav Senkavoy, of the Copenhagen University of Law, was fond of saying over and over again, in the years after his retirement when he could be found wandering the Fluffestrasse talking to himself, "Trademark....Shmademark! Ho ho!"

    In fact, there are lots of ways that these things happen, and most of them are documented in the 1998 book, Hoo Boy! Here We Go Again!: Apple's Purity Explained To Its Critics Again by the Apple Board of Directors (with a foreward by the Virgin Mary). Time and again, when viewed through any objective lens, the bottom line turns out to be that Apple is incapable of wrong, and that covers both earthly and heavenly law. If the space-time continuum puckers just long enough for an exception to this rule, the elephants who bear the world on their shoulders will have sneezing fits, so don't even go there.

  14. Different kind of messaging by hargettp · · Score: 2, Informative

    iChat is for human-to-human messaging; TIBCO's Rendezvous product is for program-to-program messaging as a behind the scenes multicast transport for all kinds of applications. Think "broadcasting real-time stock prices to trader's workstations."

  15. Bah by Harv · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Color me cynical, but it also entirely possible that Tibco, knowing that any suit against Apple for infringment would be instantly posted to major tech sites, like SlashDot, filed this suit as a PR move. I think, in fact, that this is the most likely explanation for why they filed.

    They can't have been blind to the boatload of free advertising for their otherwise invisible product that such a move would garner. The legal fees are much cheaper than an ad campaign.

  16. Re:Of course they can. English words too! by realfake · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, I recall that earlier this year there was a little flap with Apple Records over the iTunes Store.

    http://www.macnn.com/news/19643&startNumber=33

    Seems that in 1981 Apple (Computer) had promised Apple (Records) that they wouldn't go into the music business so that they wouldn't drag the young Apple (Computer) to court.