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Telstra To Put Linux On Desktop
StArSkY writes "The Australian has an article today outlining how Telstra, Australia's largest Telco, is switching to Linux and open source on the desktop. Their pilot has been quite successful, and improved stability has been noticed. On trial are Star Office, Gnome, Mozilla and Wyse. Spending AUD$1.5 Billion a year on IT, means Telstra using Open Source is a massive boost to Open Source developers and support professionals. Not mentioned in the Article is that Telstra also just Dumped IBM Global Services, and will be running IT in-house again! Telstra will be hiring Linux-savvy people I think..."
better book that flight for down under, mate.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
They're a pack of lying monopolistic bastards who break the law at every opportunity, employ deceptive advertising practices and screw every other telecom company in the country sideways. They're still half government owned, so we get the worst of both worlds in that respect.
Regarding their use of Linux, "even the Devil may cite Scripture for his purpose".
deus does not exist but if he does
Telstra will be hiring Linux-savvy people I think..."
Outsourcing companies rejoice! India rejoices. US, UK drink wine in the park!
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
They plan to cut IT costs in half, but are still keeping some servers running NT and Solaris. Plus there is the cost of hardware, bandwidth, etc. So how much of the $750 million do they plan to spend on OSS?
-a
"... [O]ur goal is to complete... at the end of October, draw our conclusions and rapidly roll it out."
Will we be surprised if, two months from now we hear: "Alas, all 500 test subjects hated it terribly; we'll stick with Windows. Oddly, they all seem to have inherited $1M from abroad.".
Most likely the #1 Unfunny Meta/Moderator on
For the last couple of years they have been increasingly conservative, increasingly anti-competitive and increasingly stupid. They artificially inflate their Telstra Shop profits with their exorbitant call costs and line rentals (Really, charging $20/month to a rural person who makes 2 calls a month???). Not to mention how they ripped off millions of mum and pop investors with the whole T2 failure. However. Supporting Linux is a good thing, so ummm, I'm a little confused about how I am supposed to feel about Telstra now...
The article mentions training costs, so I doubt that they'll be hiring. Looks like they're going to attempt to re-train the current staff. Or at least those staff that aren't in India.
It starts with a small scope. In some, small, area, Linux is "good enough".
Then, somebody asks: "What about..."? - and it works there, too.
And then somebody else asks: "Well, it worked here, what about..."? and it's good enough there, too.
This process continues until some major company decides to bet their farm on it - and it's good enough for that.
Suddenly, everybody sees it. Everybody recognizes the value. This is a turning point. One of many, but one of the big ones.
Linux is now widely recognized as "the future". As a Linux user, I routinely have conversations where Linux is "the future" and it's not questioned anymore.
With paying clients. And other vendors.
Linux is on its way. In 10 years, it'll be the default, like Windows is today still.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
It's really astonishing to consider: now is the time that the tide is rapidly turning in favor of Linux and Open/Libre Software. From large governments to ISP's, I can see an increasingly bright and prominent future for OSS. We should smile at the thought that years of dedication by talented and forethinking hackers is finally paying off.
I very much think that in 15 or 20 years it will be this current age we remember as being the watershed moment where the "technological civilization" is realized.
Sadly, from what I understand (not being an Aussie myself), Telstra is a horribly and unfairly run/administered corporation, that often reaks of anti-competitive behavior, viz:
"Australia's Broadband Woes" [http://ectnews.com].
No doubt there is also motivation by Ziggy Switkowski to keep improving their profit margins to make up for their low share value.
n sf /0/A315C020E468EDB5CA256BD1000FBBB6?OpenDocument
Telstra 1 Shares were offered around $3.60 (Australian), and peaked in late 1999 at $9.15 (Australian).
Telstra 2 Shares were offered at $7.40 (Australian) in late 1999, and are currently trading at just over $5.00 (Australian)
http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/eddesk.
Share Info.
Yeah, loving Telstra for moving to linux may still be hard cause quite frankly Telstra sucks. But you guys have gotta start doing what I have been doing for a year now. Become a telephone whore.
I've never stayed with one company for more than about 4 months before I switch to some new 'welcome back' plan another phone company is offering. The only way services will increase while prices drop is if there is considerable competition. Do your bit for Australian telecommunications and be a phone whore.
I must admit I am currently with Telstra but Optus has offered me a 'hard to refuse deal' to come back to them. I'm just waiting to see if my local Telstra affiliate Cooee will beat them both.
So change you phone companies like you change your undies ... once a quarter.
"Too slow chicken marengo" - The Cat
Perhaps some of the IT savings can be ploughed into letting me download more than 3Gb per month.
Hmm... I heard a whisper about this earlier, and there were suspicions earlier when I read the Financial Review and was told that they need to halve their IT spending.
I don't know if Telstra are doing this because of the benefits that Open Source could provide, or cause they've been told to save money.
I just hope that they get it right for once. They seem to have enough trouble with their Microsoft products.... (the school's system in South Australia -- run by Telstra -- was down for three hours due to the Blaster worm on Monday, as was a number of Telstra dialup and e-mail....)
Telstra is probably saving more by ditching IBM Global Services than switching to Linux. The businessI work for outsourced all desktop support to IBM Global Services to save money a while ago and employee productivity has dropped due to the poor care of the desktops. They still have not addressed the Blaster and Welchi worms after weeks -- they never patched the desktops. IGS doesn't judge success based on employees being productive but how many "tickets" they can clear. Clearing a ticket does not mean a problem is solved, it just means they were able to push a problem on someone else. Even IGS employees call their ticket system, "ManageNow", "MangleNow". Its freaking scary what they do to you!
If you here that IGS is taking over your support, quit your job! You life will be less frustrating.
(anonymous to stop karma whoring)
Who knows, maybe the money they save can be put towards letting people connect to their 'broadband' service, which they kindly cap at 3gb/month? Or maybe educating our communications minister?
While it's nice to hear that Telstra are switching to Linux, this hardly makes them a good company - they're still monopolistic and evil, as I'm sure any Australian who's tried to get decent broadband will tell you.
This company's infrastructure is (going to be) made up of many different types of systems and platforms, each interoperating.
This is a win for everybody---well, except for HP-UX, which they're dropping.
The point is, each different type of system has filled an important niche. Linux for the thin client front-ends and the financial database, Solaris for the web server and for scalability, and Win?? for "the simple stuff." (Can you say "role reversal?")
Well, some of those specifics are off, as I need sleep. But I think I conveyed my general point here.
Duuuude... it's symbiosis... so beautiful, man...
Yep, I did some research, and found the article in the Financial Review. (mentioned in earlier post)
Telstra to Slash IT Bill in Half Interesting.
Yet another important step for linux.
Linux needs to rule the locked down computer stylings of the corporate desktop before it will have any chance of shaking up the home desktop market.
I remember the days when apples were easy and dos* was hard. The only reason my mum got a x86 was because that is what she used at work. These days Windows is easy and Linux is hard, but things are changing real quick.
Oppertunities like this are a great way for new users to be exposed to Linux. Lets just hope the exposure that telstra gives its employees is good one.
Never know, one of these days my mum may go out and buy one of these new 'linux' computers like the one that she uses at work.
"I was about to give up hope of Telstra returning to its clueful roots."
Err, what clueful roots? They've never had a clue and I doubt they'll inherit one within the next decade.
To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom. --Scooby Doo
http://whirlpool.net.au/article.cfm/1183?show=rep
for those who are unfamiliar with good ol tel$tra
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
SMH article about indian company that looks to get deal
Yay me!
Downloads from Linuxiso.org; also has pretty cheap "buy disk" links if you're on a modem. Also see Distrowatch.
Mod this asshats post down asap, its not a verbatim copy, its been edited. (hint ESR comment is NOT in the original article).
There are only two reasons why Telstra would make a press release announcing their intention to use Linux:
(1) 'cos they've found a way to further screw their customers by their use of Linux, or
(2) 'cos they've found a way to further screw their competitors by their use of Linux.
That aside, if you go one step further, and read the article, you see that they're actually not using linux at all. They're beating around the bush with lines about XP and NT and Sun and HP-UX and Solaris and Linux and Citrix and XP-on-a-chip and you-name-it. The article is completely meaningless marketeer speak designed to trick some journo's into picking up on the key words "unix" and "linux", and it worked.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as the next guy if a large corporate makes the switch to Linux, but that's not what this article is about. Never lose site of the fact that Telstra are evil. Every bit as evil as Microsoft or SCO.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Thinking about, I can see why they are going this way. For some reason, no one hear seems to be picking up on the thin-client idea. The more you centralize computing, the easier it is to handle. Instead of installing OpenOffice on all the desktops, just do it once on you server, and all the thin clients connect to it to get their software. Open Source lets them do this easily, since they don't have to pay for someone to design something for. All they have to do is use the free software, and pay people to get it down. The way I look at it the largest price tag here is the rollout of the project. After that, they can cut costs dramaticly, fire a good portion of their IT that isn't mission critical anymore, or outsource it easier since it's so centralize remote administration would be a breeze.
Yeah, I can see how they might be using this to their advantage, or mabey I'm just trying to see the negative.
stuff
Just when the whole world seems to be going mad (SCO, RIAA, ...), and one day you look at news: yet another major Linux *desktop* win, the postponement of the EU patent vote, more news about the Asian Linux development project... it almost seems like things will be going up again! Horrors of the summer are behind us, and the autumn brings on a new light!
Incidentally, it seems that most of the bad news seem to be coming from US, while the rest of the world is moving forward. Now what was the old world/new world again...
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
Telstra To Put Linux On Desktop
It's been done, I've had one for years.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
I you read the article you will see this is not a big deal. The purchase of WYSE terminals is dumb and wasteful since these very systems they are replacing will run just as well as thin clinets. They are keeping a pile of NT servers and are thinking of adding more W3K servers plus a hug number of existign MS desktops. Lots on fire and little heat. But it says "Linux" at least. They might save some money but will likeky not and then just will bag on Linux when the project fails.
Move along nothing to see here.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
stuff
Telstra has outsourced their IT to IBM GSA which is jointly owned in Australia by Telstra, IBM and Lend Lease.
IBM Australia recently bought out Telstra and Lend Lease and so no IBM GSA is totally owned by IBM.
The outsourcing contract remains until 2007.
I never knew Sun was in the Open Source business with their J2EE server!
Or maybe they mean that in when Telstra writes their .net apps they will do that in the blind, not able to see their own code, local_echo=off?
Or they will release the source of any J2EE online billing application they write.
Or maybe the article's author is just using one too many buzz words...
As the article says, there are alot of Solaris and HP-UX systems already in place and the platform of choice when I was there was Unix. Of course, there will still be custom windows solutions for alot of their in-house products which will still need Windows, however since most of their stuff is done in-house, it wouldn't be a huge step in rewriting an app for a different platform.
Microsoft sales reps are constantly told "Never lose an account to Linux - not at any cost"
Telstra are one of Australia's largest Microsoft customers. They spend $AUD1.5Bn/year on IT (not all of this is on Microsoft)
They're now in a good position (having made this all public) to go to MS and say "We've got a problem. We give you too much money. Fix this problem and we can talk"
-kai
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
This isnt good news for Open Source, and Linux in particular. Telstra are a money grubbing company thats only looking at this because it will cost a lot less. That $1.5Mill will not go to open source, It will go to Telstra's Coffers, as Money saved being spent on windows. Most likely Telstra will try and [un]train their employees in Linux, rather than spend money. But then again, on the other hand it is an example of a Telecommunications company switching to linux for a large base of users, and might inspire other companies to consider doing it as well. (All though that being said, at the end of the day it's only going to come down to the cost, rather than a ingrained sense of compassion or nobility. [Like that exists anymore...])
#!/bin/csh cat $0
That being said, we can be glad that they are switching to Linux, because a) it demonstrates that there are sound economic reasons to make the switch (because there's no way in hell Telstra would do it for any other reason), b) they will either employ Linux hackers or pay desktop Linux companies to customise the solution for them, c) a very big company has decided to break the Office file format monopoly, and d) maybe they will be more inclined to support Linux for their customers now that they are running it en masse.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Having worked at IGS some years ago, I can tell that at least where I was, we were _brutally_ understaffed and overworked in the second level support unit. People kept quitting, yet IGS kept taking new customers, without hiring any new techs to replace the ones that left.
Projects were also often taken into production in horrific and unfinished state, leaving the support teams the unenviable task to finish the project while simultaneously handling operations and customer fault reports.
The last month I worked there I had a crapload of overtime, and over 200 hours on call. On call didn't just mean having your phone on, it meant being at most 15 minutes away from my laptop and a phone jack so I could dial in and start working on the problem. It basically made me unable to leave my apartment.
I have a friend who still works there, and apparently things are much better now, but I can only say the last year I worked at IGS was the most soul-corroding experience of my working life.
it means that free software can compete purely based on "value for money", which is far better news than if someone choose free software based on ideology.
"Create fewer IT jobs" is also good, if it means more efficient methods to produce the same goods and services with fewer people. It is called productivity increase, and free software has a great potential for that. Increasing productivity is the only thing that can make a society richer. It is sometimes resented by workers in fields that experience less demand, but that is a temporary effect until the job market has adjusted to the new situation.
One of the reason I release my software freely is that I hope it will be "exploited" as you call it. I just don't want to find myself in a situation where I have to compete with non-free versions of my own software, which is why I protect it with the GPL. As long as people keep their changes to themselves, that is find But if they share them, they have to share them freely.
In this thread, many people have pointed out how evil Telstra is (I won't repeat). They are yet another greedy, monopolistic telco. Some people point out these things but then mention they don't know how to feel about the telco because now they are supporting open source.
Let's make one thing clear: the software an organization uses doesn't make them good or bad in a moral or ethical sense.
In otherwords, all you people who are wondering how you should feel about Telstra should just continue hating them. If Microsoft switched to 100% open source software, I would not forget all the shit they've pulled. I would still argue that everything that can be done to make them go away or pay for their crimes should be done. That goes for this telco too (assuming they are as bad as some people say).
We can certainly use the fact they've switched to open source to our advantage, citing it as a success story and so on. However, that does not mean all those affected should go off and pat them on the back. If they were a nasty telco running Windows, they'll be just as nasty of a telco running Linux--and with more money in their pocket to continue doing nasty things.
Think about it.
Join Tor today!
It's also about innovation. Telstra is burdened with many very old software packages and processes, some going back to the days of the PMG (postmaster general's) department.
All of a sudden, they are faced with losing the majority government investor which has been a safety net for a long time. Don't get me wrong, a lot of Government departments run inefficiently. But most of those aren't facing privatisation.
What happens when Telstra is cast off, to truly compete with rivals to ensure decent returns to investors?
What better platform than Open Source environments to start fresh? It is just as easy for Telstra software developers (c'mon, Telstra has 50000+ employees, there are decent software developers in there) to develop on these platforms as it is on Windows, plus the TCO is much lower. And ample training is available these days to support OSS systems.
I can't think of a company in a better position, given their budget and situation, to deploy an OSS solution for the desktop.
A big chunk of those IBM GSA people are living in Australia. Employed by an American behemoth, but spending their wages in Aus.
Yay me!
Is this going to be like that other place where there was all that hooplah about their switching to Linux, and it turns out they planned to run Windows in VMWare anyway?
"Sufferin' succotash."