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Current Thoughts in String Theory

DrLudicrous writes "The NYTimes is running a nice little synopsis of the current ideas in string theory. Apparently, there is still quite a bit of disagreement about how to interpret the various theories, with some string theorists supporting a semi-deterministic worldview a la Einstein (God does not play dice), while others believe our universe is just one possibility among many, with respect to various physical parameters."

16 of 391 comments (clear)

  1. Fringe science, or valid? by mao+che+minh · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Considering that we presently greatly lack the amount of energy required to test even the smallest of superstring theory claims, this debate is merely beginnning. Frankly, I still view superstring theory as a fringe science, considering the fact that it holds merit (many of it's hypothesis are built upon solid scientific foundations), but none of it's claims can yet be tested and verified.

    Still, intriguing stuff.

    1. Re:Fringe science, or valid? by Bonker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Enstein's theories were also empirically unprovable until recent advances in avionics, minaturization, and electronics. It turns out, decades after he began to speak about 'Special Relativity', you can indeed fly an atomic clock around the world and measure that it has undergone relativistic time dialation.

      String theory, IMHO, is a return to the mindset of physicists and scientists who relied on the 'Aether' as a medium for energy and movement through the vacumn of empty space. I personally think it will undergo many, many revisions before the concepts its pointing at are understood.

      We did eventually understand relativistic motion, however, so we probably will eventually understand the extension of subatomic particles into multi-demensional space, too.

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    2. Re:Fringe science, or valid? by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I'm not sure I'd completely agree with that. True, that sort of test would be ideal. However, while it is true we can't synthetically test it, that's not always necessary for it to have scientific value.

      Science isn't so much about finding the "material truth", it's about finding an appropriate "model". For instance, Newton wasn't wrong per se, his model was just incomplete. We still use his model for predicting the majority of practical behaviours outside of experimental physics. Einstein came up with a better model, but we know it isn't complete because relativity and quantum mechanics are not compatable. Still, those models work in their respective applications.

      If superstring theory is able to work at predicting all behaviour we can observe, it doesn't really matter if the concept is correct. In other words, if two different phenomena (conceptually) always produce the exact same results, does it matter if our model is based on the "real" one or the ficticious one?

      True, there is a desire to know the "truth" of a given situation, but a model that works for all observable phenomena is certainly sufficient for most reasons we use science. Requiring that we create a phenomenon that we can't normally observe is useful for testing the truth of the model, but not necessary its practicality.

    3. Re:Fringe science, or valid? by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "

      Fringe Science" - that's a loaded term ... sort of makes you think of lamarcism, piltdown man, etc.

      1. Just because we can't test/prove something doesn't make it fringe science. For example, there is no way that you can prove that you exist. Cogito, ergo sum doesn't work (you might be a program that passes the Turing test). Can you even prove to yourself that you're real? Sure, you KNOW you're real, but PROVE it :-)

      2. Maybe we can't prove something, but we can then look to see what we can safely eliminate, w/o having to junk string theory as a possibility. People posited the existence of atoms long before the technology existed to prove it (even Aristotle mentions atoms).

      3. Who knows, maybe supporting proof will come along via some low-energy-requiring mechanism that we haven't thought about yet
    4. Re:Fringe science, or valid? by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The bajillion GeV of energy stat is the amount of energy required to probe Planck-scale events. We'll probably never have a collider that can achieve that kind of power -- at least, not before we can build ringworlds and Dyson spheres.

      The same can be said of any Grand Theory of Everything, however. If you're going to probe the limits of the universe, it doesn't matter what theory you cling to - Planck is Planck is Planck.

      On the other hand, any sufficiently strong Theory of Everything will not only explain and predict Planck-scale events, but it will also fill in the cracks of existing theory at lower energy scales. Questions like "does a neutrino have mass or not" and "what about those tricky gravitons" will be closer to the realm of what technology can explore, and will hopefully drive new technologies that make the vaunted Planck explorations feasable.

      Just a thought.

  2. Theory vs Reality by Brahmastra · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While various Theories of Everything are being proposed, a lot of them are not based on observation. They are just complex mathematical magic created to explain reality. It's like someone saying the earth is suspended in space on the back of a big turtle which is suspended on the back of another turtle, ad. infinitum. For a human who doesn't have any means of verification, the turtle theory can explain things as well as gravity. Similarly, there are currently no means to verify string theory. It is about as good as the turtle theory until then.

    1. Re:Theory vs Reality by krymsin01 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interestingly enough, I was talking to my wife last night about something similar. We were talking about how the end result of science is data that can be independantly verified, which is then interpreted by humans. So, to play a little mind game with her, I asked her how she knew the earth was a sphere. Told her that there are still people on the planet today that believe the earth is flat, like the Flat Earth Society. How does she know that the Earth is not hollow, and there aren't people running around on the inside laughing at us for getting rained on all the time?

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      stuff
  3. Quantum Computing by jabberjaw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Once quantum computing becomes a reality, would we be able to emulate some of the conditions certain experiments? I know an emulation is not the same as the real thing, but it would still be something,no?

    1. Re:Quantum Computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      String theory is a fully quantum theory, and is not more "fundamental" than quantum mechanics: it is precisely the application of quantum mechanics to the dynamics of strings.

  4. Re:Good Info on String theory by Myuu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Michio Kaku is a very brilliant man, he was on Big Thinkers and made a very interesting arguement about the String theory.

    There is also a very interesting book called Elegant Universe. I really haven't seen anything that compared to it.

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  5. Anti-Anthropic Sky God Freaks by meehawl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems to me that all the desperate anti-anthropic people are frightened, at some deep existential level, by the undoubted, rational reality of there being no omnipotent Sky God watching over them. So ever-expanding universes, or universes where sudden phase changes in the structure of the dark energy destroy existing life, or universes with life-hostile substructural "laws" all make them feel too small, unloved, and insignificant against the vastness. Get used to it, we are cosmic dust. The simplest explanation is that there is no design, no Sky God, no plan, and no ordering. Sic transit gloria mundi.

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    Da Blog
  6. Re:Einstein quote by Zachary+Kessin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It should be pointed out that Einstein in addition to helping at the start of QM (the photoelectric effect and brownian motion) also did some major work in QM later on. Most of that work was to try and poke holes in the theory. Wherever he was able to the QM folks were able to patch them back up.

    I will admit to not understaning much of the term of QM I had to take in my physics major

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    Erlang Developer and podcaster
  7. Existence of TOE by Gestahl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Has anyone ever stopped to think that there is no TOE? And not just that, that there is no valid description of possible universes either? Theoretical physicists are playing mathematical games to find the TOE, but are having lots of trouble. The TOE should produce all the physical constants from its principles, right? What if the TOE has constants? Worse, what if someone proved a Godel or Turing like theorem that says something to the effect of "There is no theory that can describe everything, because there will be at least one (universe|force|particle|whatever) that does exist, but cannot be described." This is the most likely outcome I think.

    At best I think that if we find a TOE it will have extremely poor predictive value because it will be so generic that it tells us not too much more about our universe than we already know, and simply give physicists new universes to wank around in. Not to say we shouldn't research this... ya never know where you might find useful stuff.

  8. Re:Einstein quote by nanojath · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "I will admit to not understaning much of the term of QM I had to take in my physics major"


    Leading us to another great misquote, "those who are not shocked when they first come across
    quantum mechanics cannot possibly have understood it," Niels Bohr, which gets turned into something like, anyone who thinks they understand quantum mechanics doesn't, which is really a totally different statement. It's not that you can't "understand" it - it's that the implications of the theory are simply shocking.


    Both your statements about Einstein are perfectly true though. The Brownian motion work tends to be overshadowed by the relativity, but its actually elegant and significant science that was later backed up with some baroque and inventive experiments. And no, he could never accept the quantum mechanics entirely - not its reliance on probabilities and not the world where things could have no precise position and momentum. But as you note, he was never able to build a case against it that had any traction.


    I don't know if anyone but the true math-heads really understands quantum mechanics. I took a fair amount with physical chemistry, and while I could grasp what was presented to me by the teacher, it was pretty damn clear that I wouldn't ever be coming up with stuff like that on my own. I remember very clearly being taught the proof for Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. It was so elegant and undeniable - either this is the way it is or else our most fundamental definitions of matter and energy have to be scrapped. But I never would have figured it out on my own, and I can't really remember it now - it would be hours of unpleasant work with the calc book and scratch paper to take myself through the proof on my own. Ah well. Quantum nostalgia (o particle in a box, we hardly knew you!)

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    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

  9. Everyone seems to be dying by vivek7006 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But Dr. Max Tegmark, a cosmologist at the University of Pennsylvania, said, "I think this grand dream is basically dying."

    Along with BSD, trinity and internet.....

    BSD has been dying for over 10 years.

    Trinity died even before reloaded could hit the screen.

    Internet has been dying for sometime now.

  10. Re:People with issues... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The motivation for string theory was to remove infinities in the fields which result from point-like particles. There is no physical motivation. String theory was not formulated as a theory of gravity or a grand unification theory.


    Actually, string theory was originally formulated as a theory of the strong nuclear force. It fell out of favor once quantum chromodynamics was invented.


    Those were bolted on afterwards as people noticed they could have sufficient degrees of freedom: you can build similar theories with straight up quantum field theory, and many people do for their life's work.


    You cannot build a theory of gravity from "straight up quantum field theory", at least in the perturbative QFT framework that applies to the other forces. (Nonperturbative canonical quantization might work.)


    So far the theory has produced one observable, which we already knew to far higher accuracy from quantum field theory.


    As far as I know, string theory hasn't predicted any observables ...


    Pure number theorists get more physics as a by product than do string theorists.


    Now that's silly. String theory has a lot more direct connections to physics than number theory. I agree with your basic point that string theory is overhyped and tenuously connected with reality, but this kind of hyperbole does not help your case.