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Finally A Major-Brand Desktop With Linux, Not Windows
Fugwidzard writes "Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price, the NewsForge review says, but no modem, and even optional modems are Winmodems although they say they have Linux drivers for them. Plus it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway, and a step in the right direction for HP. Supposedly they're going to have all their PCs 'Linux certified' in the near future. I hope other big PC mills do the same."
What is the price of the same configuration with Windows? Logically, the same configuration with Linux should cost slightly less
We have a few of the HP Itanium workstations that came with Red Hat Linux preloaded, so they are selling some machines with Linux preloaded on them. Of course, for $8k+, they'd better come with the OS preloaded, right? ;-)
Until a major player like HP can offer tech support and an actual pre-load, Linux will still be limited to the more hard-core user.
Anyone who would be using Linux, at least in the USA, would just build thier own system, download Linux off the net (or even buy the retail box of the OS) and have a higher performance/price system.
The whole reason why I would ever buy a retail computer would be for the warranty. Now for the common joe-user out there, the warranty and support is something they need.
Put Linux on that system, then what's the point if there isn't support, let alone pre-installation.
It's cheap budget PC. I mean the most RAM it can have is 256Mb...40G 5.4kRPM hd...yay.
I really dislike how Linux keeps getting labeled as the "cheap" solution to Windows. Yes it's cheaper than windows but thats not the ONLY advatange.
I hated how AMD was viewed exactly in the same way when compared to Intel. "The cheaper solution.."
In Soviet Russia, the television watches YOU!
I'm not really chomping at the bit to pay HP to put a desktop box together so I can run Linux on it. If I'm gonna master the installation and configuration of the OS, why wouldn't I be willing to assemble a barebones system? I want a new computer to be either easy or cheap; this isn't either.
WTF? I thought HP sponsors Debian. Actually, I know they do (click on their sponsor link on the front page). So what's with this Mandrake stuff when there's Debian-based desktop-oriented distros like Knoppix and Xandros available?
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1. Factory machines are WAY over-priced to begin with. Existing Linux users already know the benefit of piecing a machine together themselves and how much it shaves off the price.
2. If they are trying to attract "new" computer users (or users who aren't as experienced) to Linux, they're in for quite a surprise when they get massive amounts of returns. "Hey, none of my existing software works with this.. This machine is going back to the store!"
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like this would only benefit in corporate environments where they need to use Linux and don't have time to piece together machines.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
That's pretty much what we thought when Dell did it. There's still little traction for Linux preloaded on major vendor desktops.
I wonder if this isn't at least partially to address some moaning from the corporate sector about having to purchase Windows twice? I've heard that many companies are buying Windows licenses via a licensing program, then buying another license when they purchase the hardware. Is this just an end-run around that, with Linux used as a convenient excuse?
After all of the SCO mess, I must be in conspiracy theory mode.
the no
Dont manufacturers pay Microsoft based on units shipped, and not what's shipped on them?
LOL. That sounds exactly like Tier One support from Dell.
--old timer mode
So, I get this call. A guy just got his modem replaced, but it's a different model/manufacturer than his previous winmodem. No floppy or CD containing driver, driver not available on the Win98 CD. M'kay..
"Now sir, you're going to have to, uh, download the drivers for your new modem from our support site.."
It was calls like that that made me not want to be a call-tech anymore. I truly felt sorry for the bastards.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
According to the GPL:
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
Seems that a) was not done. Can anyone confirm if b) is?
You're telling me the only difference is $52? No regular user is going to choose Linux over Windoze XP just to save $52.
There hasn't been a great clamor in the consumer sector for *nix boxes. Those in the know sculpt their own (or buy Apple, of course).
I interpret this move by concumer-friendly HP less as their being proactive vis-a-vis consumer needs and more as their being proactive to get the best OEM deal possible next quarter with Redmond.
This is the type of stuff that must absolutely friggin' terrify the MS sales-suits nurturing the OEM supply chain. The fact that other consumer dealers could follow HP's lead is even more chilling to them. The sound you hear is a half-dozen executive sales assistants in Redmond slamming open file cabinets and searching for contracts their bosses can review with an eye towards sweetening.
Ultimately, whether you are a fan of Linux or Windows, you benefit. A Good Thing.
It's a shame, because it seems that the main benefit of a company like HP offering this machine would be to help increase the OS market share of Linux. If it doesn't do well because it doesn't appeal to new buyers, will the corporation (and competitors?) decide that this is a failed experiment and leave the linux market to people like wal-mart?
Maybe corporations that hire their own tech support would go for this - be more likely with pre-installation, though.
A slashdot article from August last year mentioned that the MS OEM contracts prohibit an OEM from shipping any box without an OS. Dell got around this by throwing in a FreeDOS diskette. The target audience was corporations that have volumn licensing agreements and who wanted to install their own licensed copy of Windows without paying for a redundent version. Looks HP is adopting a similar trick to sell OS-less boxes for corporations who will then install their own OS of choice, probably WinXP-Pro or Win2k-Pro. I think the Mandrake CD's might just be trick to get around the MS contracts, similiar to Dell's use of FreeDOS. If these are being sold for corporate networks, most will probably end up running windows.
Is it just me, or is the tide really starting to turn in the last couple of months? I realise /. focuses on these things, but there seems to have been a lot of articles lately about major organizations, militaries, governments, school systems and the like straight-up turning thier back on Microsoft in favour of GNU/Linux or OSS.. (and even starting from scratch a la Japan/China/Taiwan).
Is Microsoft really starting to lose thier grip? Will we look back 5 years from now and chuckle about how MS had such domination, but by then they will be less relevant? With Microsoft "out of the way", will this allow other OS startups (not linux or bsd types) to flourish? I.e. will BeOS get re-invented as a commercial product? Plan9? Something brand new?
do() || do_not();
... the silver-front box with the Compaq logo on it. We got one of the very first demo units from our local Compaq sales rep before HP rebranded and recolored the boxes. They had something in the BIOS that prevented either SuSE 8 or Redhat 8 CDROM disks from even booting up. I tried the floppy-based installation and Linux would install, but both LILO and Grub would try to start the kernel and it would then freeze up solid after the kernel uncompressed and tried to start. I put the Windows XP Pro cdrom back into the machine and the re-installation of XP went as normal and the machine worked fine. I asked our salesrep about this and he said that the BIOS on these demo machines was deliberately written to not run Linux due to some agreement with you-know-who.
Actually, there isn't anything after the ...
From the point of view of a PHB, if you buy this with Mandrake, you'll attract the ire of SCO, and Microsoft will send the BSA stormtroopers round to make you prove that you're not running hooky Windows installs.
The SCO issue isn't that serious, but the BSA one is a real headache for IT departments. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if some shops will buy this with XP home on it, then install a linux distro over it, simply on the basis that HP certify it for Mandrake (and soon SuSE and Red Hat), but they don't want the BSA sniffing roun. Result: HP sees poor sales figures for the Mandrake option, and assumes that nobody wants it.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Oh yes, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the decreased cost and complexity of supporting only one platform... Or the atrocious bargaining position they're trapped in with Microsoft... Or the frickin lack of consumer demand for Linux computers. It's all a grand conspiracy by The Man to keep Open Source down.
Dell does sell Linux preinstalls, actually. And these companies realize that someone who has the know-how to use Linux in their enterprise also has the know-how to not use their solutions in the first place. What would HP/Dell/Gateway gain with a major push of Linux other than a pain in the neck?
I'm all for supporting Linux, but expecting computer manufacturers to push Linux as hard as Windows because "it's the right thing to do" is ludicrous. "The right thing to do" is what your customers want; and their major customers want Windows solutions, not Linux.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
What he means by "geographical preferences" is such things like Japanese users prefer to use Mandrake, US users prefer Redhat, Germans prefer SuSE, etc...
The Windows world has no such preferences, everyone gets their one "distribution" of Windows, the only difference is the localization of the Windows OS (English, Japanese, Korean, etc).
A very good point. But as it has been pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, the article notes that this line is aimed at business.
There is an increasing, albeit still a niche, interest in Linux on the desktop in that sector. We've seen the articles. And I've worked at a couple large organizations (corporate and government) that are either working on or already deployed an officially supported desktop Linux base.
On the other hand, I suppose this could very well be a chance to push back at Microsoft and strike a better deal. Certainly for OEMs. However, in my two examples, the deployment of Linux desktops has been less about replacing Microsoft and more about serving a demand from the organization's users.
Creating a "Linux compatible" desktop doesn't require too much effort these days. But there is the occasional hardware vendor that should be avoided for a Linux desktop. HP seems to be doing the footwork for business users in providing a desktop that will accept the blessed standard Linux desktop load - whatever that may be. With the usual guarantees and hardware support one tends to look for in a large hardware supplier.
Dell did this, Compaq still does to some extent, and now HP is getting into it. The problem is that you have to dig though all sorts of stuff, or just call them outright if you want them. And then calling is having to talk to a supervisor, because the first sales rep will have no idea you can get a non-Windows PC. I've never gone to either of these three "major OEMS" that are "supporting linux" and actually have the option to either buy it in their normal storefronts, or though their normal distributions.
How is someone even soposed to know that linux is an option, if under "Operating System" you have only the choice of WindowsXP Home or Pro? The special linux PCs are usual so hidden you couldn't find them with Ponce De Leon, a GPS, and a personalized Googlebot.
So this is all a non-issue. Until I can go to hp.com and under their normal site, just see the "Mandrake 9.1 (subtract $52)" option on their site when I go though their store and chose "Operating System" for a new PC, it's all just smoke and mirrors.
HP invests a lot of money into research and development. HP funds Debian. What does Dell do? Sponge off the industry. For all that myself and many others here on Slashdot say about Microsoft, they too spend a lot of their money on R&D. Dell does none of this. Just as the personalities at Sun claim, Dell is a bank (or, more like a pawn shop). They used the same case for their midrange PCs for almost 4 years! At least for a while with Gateway they used AMD Athlons while Dell continues to string AMD along. In my eyes, Dell is no better than the federal government; the companies that win contracts to supply Dell with parts for their PCs are the lowest bidder. Someone send me an email when Alienware starts bundling a Linux distribution with their machines...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
One of the PCs I do freebie tech support for (owned by a friend :)) has an on-board modem and Ethernet NIC. However, I believe the modem is a winmodem.
There was a time when modems did speak a common language. One day someone had the bright idea to use glorified soundcards instead of modems and do the modem bit in software. The rest is history.
Non-geek PC users don't need two office suites, a collection of spreadsheets and a "raft of browsers". They need one of each, and they want that one to "just work".
Linux needs to move away from it's "shovelware" tendancies.
Alright, time to start the count down. I think they'll make it 6 months. Any one else like to place bids on how long they'll continue this? Many vendors have tried the Linux route and simply found that there really was no demand. Linux users generally don't buy from Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.
So, 6 months. What do you say?
scott
Good idea. Someone should make a modem like that that uses a standard hardware interface and has most of the logic in the modem itself. It can be controller from the host computer with some sort of simple protocol. Let's say we make it "ATD" to dial, "ATH" to hang up, things like that. Even if it's an internal modem on a bus, the hardware interface could be faked or actually installed on the card. Why hasn't someone thought of this?
Jest aside, I've never gotten why most peripherals hardware can't subscribe to a simple abstracted interface - scanners & printers for instance. There's really no excuse for all the differing "standards". The free market has many fruits, but what's the point if you have to reconfigure your digestive system every time you try a new one?