Slashdot Mirror
Finally A Major-Brand Desktop With Linux, Not Windows
Fugwidzard writes "Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price, the NewsForge review says, but no modem, and even optional modems are Winmodems although they say they have Linux drivers for them. Plus it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway, and a step in the right direction for HP. Supposedly they're going to have all their PCs 'Linux certified' in the near future. I hope other big PC mills do the same."
Evesham supply a preloaded, supported, all nicely configured system.
mmmmm... taste the preloaded goodness...
foo mane padme hum
Is dell not a major brand?
"Windows version of the d220 does include a modem option, but it is a Winmodem. HP tells me there is a Linux driver available for it on the Internet."
So if I read this right, you have to go on the Internet and download a driver for the modem in your new PC. Um, unless I have broadband, how am I supposed to get on the Internet to download this driver?
Seems about as smart as putting the installation instructions for your CD-ROM drive on a CD...
What is the price of the same configuration with Windows? Logically, the same configuration with Linux should cost slightly less
My guess is this is a testing-of-the-water here, see how things go over, probably mixed with wanting to take the easiest route. So, they toss out a machine, note they'll have everything certified, and see how it goes in the commercial market.
.
On a related note, how long is it going to be until SCO is mentioned in these comments . .
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
The modem issue is not a big one, I don't think. Many people today are using broadband, so as long as there is a network card in the box it should be all right. Also, in case they do want a modem, at least they are providing Mandrake. After installing Mandrake 9.0 and 9.1 on my box at home, I was amazed that 9.0 told me I had a Winmodem and gave me a URL to find out how to make it work, and 9.1 even installed the Winmodem drivers! (If only Dell had not given me a Winmodem in the first place...)
Given that God is infinite, and the Universe is also infinite, would you like some toast?
There has been a major brand desktop computer without Windows, since 1984 even. There's lots of good reasons for Linux vs owning a Macintosh, but you've had choices before this.
--
$tar -xvf
We have a few of the HP Itanium workstations that came with Red Hat Linux preloaded, so they are selling some machines with Linux preloaded on them. Of course, for $8k+, they'd better come with the OS preloaded, right? ;-)
Until a major player like HP can offer tech support and an actual pre-load, Linux will still be limited to the more hard-core user.
Anyone who would be using Linux, at least in the USA, would just build thier own system, download Linux off the net (or even buy the retail box of the OS) and have a higher performance/price system.
The whole reason why I would ever buy a retail computer would be for the warranty. Now for the common joe-user out there, the warranty and support is something they need.
Put Linux on that system, then what's the point if there isn't support, let alone pre-installation.
It's cheap budget PC. I mean the most RAM it can have is 256Mb...40G 5.4kRPM hd...yay.
I really dislike how Linux keeps getting labeled as the "cheap" solution to Windows. Yes it's cheaper than windows but thats not the ONLY advatange.
I hated how AMD was viewed exactly in the same way when compared to Intel. "The cheaper solution.."
In Soviet Russia, the television watches YOU!
I'm not really chomping at the bit to pay HP to put a desktop box together so I can run Linux on it. If I'm gonna master the installation and configuration of the OS, why wouldn't I be willing to assemble a barebones system? I want a new computer to be either easy or cheap; this isn't either.
Yes, a step in the right direction but... Why couldn't they do it right? It wouldn't take much for a company like HP to do a decent preload. (Even Lindows has accomplished this!) I'm sure that HP has the right infrastructure and skills to do this job right. Just good enough should not be good enough!
www.mikesmind.com - www.daddyworkathome.com - www.freetofarm.org - www.tenfoottable.com
It is indeed good news that one of the bigger vendors is putting a Linux box in their catalog... However, just giving a blank box and a CD set is not the way it should be done.
Quite a lot of software should be preloaded, all nicely set-up to enable the buyer to start using it right away. When, in a later stage, someone asked him if his PC worked well with this all new, thing-of-the-underworld, very-neet-and-1337, futuristic OS on it. Only if the person can say then "yeah, sure, it had everything on it, I plugged it in and it started in 60 seconds, it came with an office suite preloaded and i browsed the internet and read e-mails in no-time...".
Only then Linux will Linux hit the home-market.
WTF? I thought HP sponsors Debian. Actually, I know they do (click on their sponsor link on the front page). So what's with this Mandrake stuff when there's Debian-based desktop-oriented distros like Knoppix and Xandros available?
Help us build a better map!
1. Factory machines are WAY over-priced to begin with. Existing Linux users already know the benefit of piecing a machine together themselves and how much it shaves off the price.
2. If they are trying to attract "new" computer users (or users who aren't as experienced) to Linux, they're in for quite a surprise when they get massive amounts of returns. "Hey, none of my existing software works with this.. This machine is going back to the store!"
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like this would only benefit in corporate environments where they need to use Linux and don't have time to piece together machines.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
"Plus it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support."
That's the way I prefer it, actually. Whenever I buy a manufactured PC, no matter who it's from, the first thing I do is format and reinstall, even if I stick to the OS provided. Who knows what was installed from the factory? (Probably nothing bad but all it takes is one bad employee.)
To me they always seem to require expensive memory for it to be guaranteed to work, un-upgradable components, and arcane BIOSes that run a version of windows to configure it.
This is all well and great for big companies that want 1000s of the same PCs for easy maintainance and vendor support, but for the average geek it is nothing but trouble.
I'll just stick with buying components or bare-bones PCs, those have always been without M$-Tax as well, thank you.
That's pretty much what we thought when Dell did it. There's still little traction for Linux preloaded on major vendor desktops.
I wonder if this isn't at least partially to address some moaning from the corporate sector about having to purchase Windows twice? I've heard that many companies are buying Windows licenses via a licensing program, then buying another license when they purchase the hardware. Is this just an end-run around that, with Linux used as a convenient excuse?
After all of the SCO mess, I must be in conspiracy theory mode.
the no
To play DVDs
...you pay the HP tax? Dell's got a much lower cost operation and can afford to undercut HP by a substantial amount, you might as well just buy from them, and get your copy of Windows for free (relative to the price of the equivalent computer from HP w/o Windows).
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
There hasn't been a great clamor in the consumer sector for *nix boxes. Those in the know sculpt their own (or buy Apple, of course).
I interpret this move by concumer-friendly HP less as their being proactive vis-a-vis consumer needs and more as their being proactive to get the best OEM deal possible next quarter with Redmond.
This is the type of stuff that must absolutely friggin' terrify the MS sales-suits nurturing the OEM supply chain. The fact that other consumer dealers could follow HP's lead is even more chilling to them. The sound you hear is a half-dozen executive sales assistants in Redmond slamming open file cabinets and searching for contracts their bosses can review with an eye towards sweetening.
Ultimately, whether you are a fan of Linux or Windows, you benefit. A Good Thing.
Of course, you do have to order them with RedHat, but they do give you the option.
Right off of the Dell site:
Linux Products
Dell Linux Overview
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
I prefer to buy an external for a number of reasons and a few extra when dealing with Linux.
I like being able to turn the modem off when I'm not using it. Some modems are preconfigured to answer the phone some aren't. It's just easier to turn it off when it's not being used.
More portable. Being that modems won't be upgrading any time soon the option of installing my modem on future PCs is very appealing.
But more than that a good RS232 port modem is pritty much universal.
Everything from the old Commodore 64 (with RS232 cable) to an iMac (with USB to sereal addapter) and everything in between.
I have a dial up modem had one for years and I don't even use it.
The modems offered by OEMs are always Win modems not worth it.
I did once consider buying a modem card but that was becouse the sereal card wasn't much cheaper. But I stayed my course.
Anyway for $20 a month I get cable internet a 64k baud. Not quite broudband of course but it's cheap and effective. No screwed up phone lines to deal with.
I don't actually exist.
I agree that a $52 savings is not enough to motivate regular users. But why not offer a dual-boot Linux/Windows machine for the price of a Windows-only machine? I'd love to have a dual-boot Linux/Windows system set up for me. Someone else works out all the driver and hardware issues for me in Linux as well as Windows; and I get to determine which O/S to use for which purposes. This option would be great for consumers and has been technically feasible for years. I wonder why we haven't seen systems like this, despite all the competition in the PC industry? :-)
-- Pot is safer than Beer
Is it just me, or is the tide really starting to turn in the last couple of months? I realise /. focuses on these things, but there seems to have been a lot of articles lately about major organizations, militaries, governments, school systems and the like straight-up turning thier back on Microsoft in favour of GNU/Linux or OSS.. (and even starting from scratch a la Japan/China/Taiwan).
Is Microsoft really starting to lose thier grip? Will we look back 5 years from now and chuckle about how MS had such domination, but by then they will be less relevant? With Microsoft "out of the way", will this allow other OS startups (not linux or bsd types) to flourish? I.e. will BeOS get re-invented as a commercial product? Plan9? Something brand new?
do() || do_not();
Given the pricing of this box, you can:
spend $467 and throw the Linux CDs away
spend $519 and throw the Windows XP Home CDs away
spend $589 and throw the Windows XP Pro CDs away
Which do you do?
(Those of you out there really in IT support can now tell me what's wrong with the above. My last sysadmin work was around 1996...)
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Somehow I doubt getting source code from Mandrake is going to be hard to do. Oh..I don't know... Their FTP site maybe?
The source has to be available to you, not included in the box.
... the silver-front box with the Compaq logo on it. We got one of the very first demo units from our local Compaq sales rep before HP rebranded and recolored the boxes. They had something in the BIOS that prevented either SuSE 8 or Redhat 8 CDROM disks from even booting up. I tried the floppy-based installation and Linux would install, but both LILO and Grub would try to start the kernel and it would then freeze up solid after the kernel uncompressed and tried to start. I put the Windows XP Pro cdrom back into the machine and the re-installation of XP went as normal and the machine worked fine. I asked our salesrep about this and he said that the BIOS on these demo machines was deliberately written to not run Linux due to some agreement with you-know-who.
That box ain't so bad, compared to HP boxes from a couple years ago, which are f-ugly. They should have just fired all the HP box designers and used Compaq's after the merger.
But why not offer a dual-boot Linux/Windows machine for the price of a Windows-only machine?
Rumor has it that Microsoft licensing prevents a dual-boot Linux/Windows machine. Supposedly there is some clause that prevents it, but we won't know for sure because the license is supposedly a trade secret.
But you're right, dual-boot would be best for consumers.
--Drunk as in Beer
from the numbers published over the last few quarters, it really looks like HP is losing the PC war with Dell (well, basically everybody is losing). Is HP pushing this because they're desperate enough to try anything (including risk a MS reprisal)?
I mean, nobody's under any illusions when it comes to whether or not MS plays hardball, right? You get the feeling this is one of those ventures where they hope to sell "many, but not so many as to trigger MS unhappiness"... between a rock and a hard place indeed.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm!
Dell has been selling systems with Linux on 'em for a while now. HP seems late to the game.
Support is via RedHat.
I usually roll my own but for my last upgrade, I looked at pre-built systems to save time and aggravation. Since Linux would be going on anyway, Not paying the M$ tax would be a bonus. Not having to dick around with setting up sound, video etc etc etc. would be more of a bonus.
It may only be $52, but it's $52 that Bill's not getting.
Oh yes, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the decreased cost and complexity of supporting only one platform... Or the atrocious bargaining position they're trapped in with Microsoft... Or the frickin lack of consumer demand for Linux computers. It's all a grand conspiracy by The Man to keep Open Source down.
Dell does sell Linux preinstalls, actually. And these companies realize that someone who has the know-how to use Linux in their enterprise also has the know-how to not use their solutions in the first place. What would HP/Dell/Gateway gain with a major push of Linux other than a pain in the neck?
I'm all for supporting Linux, but expecting computer manufacturers to push Linux as hard as Windows because "it's the right thing to do" is ludicrous. "The right thing to do" is what your customers want; and their major customers want Windows solutions, not Linux.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
That's innovation, not anticompetitiveness... you insensitive clod!
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing