Slashdot Mirror


SCO's Open Letter to Open Source Community

joefish_only_1 writes "SCO CEO has posted an open letter to the open source community. There's some things Mr McBride mentions that I hadn't heard of yet, like an admission by Bruce Perens that "UNIX System V code is, in fact, in Linux, and it shouldn't be there."" A slashdot reader posted a comment recently that breaks it down quite well.

58 of 724 comments (clear)

  1. An open letter to Darl McBride by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can have $699 for my SCO Intellectual Property for Linux License when you pry it from my cold, empty wallet.

    Sincerely,

    Anonymous Coward

    1. Re:An open letter to Darl McBride by Trigun · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd like to see Darl pry cash from an empty wallet. Oh wait, He already has. It's called a Pump-and-Dump.

  2. an open leter by rokka · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sure this letter is really open? No strings? Will I be sued if I don't include parts of this letter into my own?

    --
    I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...
  3. Logical flaws, galore. by rcs1000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is something rather disgusting about this letter from SCO, and the following passage highlights it rather well:

    "There is no question about the affiliation of the attacker - Open Source leader Eric Raymond was quoted as saying that he was contacted by the perpetrator and that "he's one of us." To Mr Raymond's partial credit, he asked the attacker to stop. However, he has yet to disclose the identity of the perpetrator so that justice can be done.

    No one can tolerate DDoS attacks and other kinds of attacks in this Information Age economy that relies so heavily on the Internet. Mr Raymond and the entire Open Source community need to aggressively help the industry police these types of crimes. If they fail to do so it casts a shadow over the entire Open Source movement."

    Now, substitute the phrases "black people", "black person", and "black community" for "Open Source"...

    That the DDoS attackers were "members of the open source community" is irrelevent. It is like saying they had red hair, and therefore ALL red-haired people should bear responsibility. No. No. No. No.

    You cannot generalise from a person, or even several people, to an entire community. That is wrong. Indeed, the whole letter is full of generalisations from (often inaccurate) specifics.

    Down with SCO!

    --
    --- My dad's political betting
    1. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by otisaardvark · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Please don't get me wrong; I agree with your point. But also note it is easier to generalise about the open source "community" than (eg) the black "community" because people choose to be open source developers. Unless you take the Michael Jackson route, skin colour isn't something you can alter with your actions - being an open source proponent is.

      At the risk of falling into the correlation/causation trap, it is far more likely that open source devs share more community characteristics than black people.

    2. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by Gerv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You cannot generalise from a person, or even several people, to an entire community.

      Agreed. But are you arguing that ESR shouldn't inform the proper authorities about the crime he knows has been committed?

      That would, IMO, be the right thing to do - stop the activities of someone whose actions harm the community and its reputation, and demonstrate (if demonstration is needed) that we have respect for the law. On this point, Mr McBride is right.

      Gerv

    3. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by Bistronaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is true, but it still doesn't mean that guilt of one "open source community member" = guilt of all.

    4. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by shaka999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your comparison of being a black person to being a member of the open source community is mildly offensive. Contrary to how many open source developers and advocates present themselves you are not born being an "open source". This is a choice you have made.

      The open source community is just that, a community. What one person or sub-group does inside this community does reflect on the group as a whole. Instead of comparing it to a minority group you should be comparing it to a company or club. If one person in a company/organizaton does something of questionable ethics it does reflect on everyone else. It is therefore in that organizations best interest to police itself.

      I believe the same is true for the open source community. By sticking to a set of values and admonishing those that don't the open source movement will gain more acceptance.

      --
      One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
    5. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by de+Selby · · Score: 4, Informative

      Agreed. But are you arguing that ESR shouldn't inform the proper authorities about the crime he knows has been committed?

      He doesn't know who it was, so how is he going to inform any authorities?

    6. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Informative
      Technically, if ESR knew the identity of the perpetrator and was issued a subpeona, then he'd be guilty of aiding and abetting at the very least if he refused to reveal the perp's ID. You can bet that SCO has taken this to the authorities, especially since it was all so public and there was no way SCO could hide the fact. So, given that ESR has quite likely been contacted by the authorites, why is Darl able to make a claim that ESR is obstructing justice by withholding the name?

      The simple answer is here. ESR doesn't know the identity of the DDoSer, having only dealt with a cut-out, only that (s)he is "an experienced Internet engineer". I find it incredibly crass of Darl to intimate that someone of ESR's standing in the community is obstructing the course of justice like that, and wonder if ESR might have some grounds for a libel case.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    7. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by jeavis · · Score: 5, Interesting
      McBride speaks about things which he knows little about. He has no way of knowing that ESR hasn't informed the proper authorities. Rather, McBride is simply resorting to speculation because ESR didn't inform him.

      I've worked at an ISP for seven years, and in that time have seen my fair share of abusive and illegal online activity. In cases where legal action is sought, the proper authorities often don't want you to say anything to anyone, including the victim(s). I've received subpoenas for evidence from various state and federal entities over the years, and most contained some provision for maintaining confidentiality of both the evidence and the subpoena itself. They do not want to tip off the alleged perpetrator and give them an opportunity to try to elude investigators or destroy evidence.

    8. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by benzapp · · Score: 4, Informative

      That doesn't change the fact what we have here is the logical fallacy of "Dicto simpliciter".

      Even if we were talking about the damn marine corps, simply because one individual chooses to act in discordance with the group's stated goals doesn't at all reflect on the group.

      Any attempt at making that claim is NOT an argument, but perhaps an explanation...

      --
      I don't read or respond to AC posts
    9. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by Gerv · · Score: 4, Funny

      ESR doesn't know the identity of the DDoSer

      Silly me. I automatically believed something Darl McBride said was the truth, and the whole truth, without checking the real facts. I won't make that mistake again.

      Gerv

    10. Re:Logical flaws, galore. by ichimunki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, but when someone like ESR decides to make it sound as though the Open Source community both claims this person as a member and then takes no steps to bring this person to justice for an obvious criminal act, that reflects negatively on the Open Source community as a whole. But then I absolutely rejected ESR as a "leader" some time ago, myself.

      Personally I'm waiting for Darl to write an open letter to those of us in the Free Software movement-- one where he recognizes the philosophical underpinnings behind the movement as valid desires and stays away from the distracting nonsense about business models.

      And anyway... has SCO specifically accused any software of being infringing other than the Linux kernel itself? If only Linux is (allegedly) infringing that would make all this talk about development models (in addition to all the business model garbage) a lot of hot air (i.e. BS). Have they mentioned that any of the BSDs may be infringing? How about the HURD? How about the larger GNU system? Perl? Ruby? Apache? MySQL or PostgreSQL? KDE? Well, SCO? When are you going to stop with the unsupported vague assertions and give us actionable information?

      --
      I do not have a signature
  4. 'improper contribution'. by Channard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article doesn't offer as much insight into SCO's thinking with this apparently suicidal (PR wise anyway) move, but one thing does stand out, the use of the words 'improper contribution'. Not 'improper use' or This for me shows just how empty SCO's talk is. How exactly does someone improperly contribute something? If you contribute something, you do so. If something is stolen or copied from you, it's stolen. SCO didn't even have the guts to accuse anyone of stealing, they just came up with this nonsensical phrase. Kind of telling.

  5. Must... control... fist... of... death... by Bistronaut · · Score: 5, Informative

    So much to comment on... so little time. Well, the first thing that I see that stands out is this quote by McBride:

    The second development was an admission by Open Source leader Bruce Perens that UNIX System V code (owned by SCO) is, in fact, in Linux, and it shouldn't be there. Mr Perens stated that there is "an error in the Linux developer's process" which allowed Unix System V code that "didn't belong in Linux" to end up in the Linux kernel (source: ComputerWire, August 25, 2003).

    Here is the original quote from the referenced ComputerWire article:

    The other SCO code snippet Perens walks through had to do with memory allocation functions in Unix System V and Linux. He says there was, in fact, "an error in the Linux developer's process," specifically a programmer at SGI, and he says while the Linux community had the legal right to this code, it didn't belong in Linux and was therefore removed.

    Talk about out of context! The assertion that the code is owned by SCO is made only by Mr. McBride, who neglected to mention that it has already been found and removed.

    1. Re:Must... control... fist... of... death... by adrianbye · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Talk about out of context! The assertion that the code is owned by SCO is made only by Mr. McBride, who neglected to mention that it has already been found and removed.

      Actually this is a good thing. When they're resorting to exaggerations like this, it shows how little SCO really has.

    2. Re:Must... control... fist... of... death... by 955301 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And to top it off, the Jackass suggests that the open source community needs a "sustainable business model". What a unbelievable case of tunnel vision.

      I'm considering writing a video driver for my notebook computer's built in computer camera. Why? So I can sell the driver? Uhm, no. Simply because I want to get it to work on Linux. And if some company tries to sell a driver, that doesn't mean I'm only doing it to compete with them. It doesn't mean I have to start charging for it, or make a "sustainable business model".

      This guy really is in his own world. And it's obvious there is no oxygen on it.

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    3. Re:Must... control... fist... of... death... by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Funny

      This guy [Darl McBride] really is in his own world. And it's obvious there is no oxygen on it.

      It's the necktie. No, really.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    4. Re:Must... control... fist... of... death... by sbuckhopper · · Score: 5, Funny

      Funny, the way I read the OpenLetter from SCO, Darl seems to be in favor of OpenSource. Now that he's dumping all of his SCO stock maybe he doesn't care anymore. Or maybe he's realized that there is not case...

      Here is quotes from the letter that support my statement:

      "This ""Open Source software is healthy and beneficial. It offers long-term benefits to the industry by addressing a new business model in advance of wide-scale adoption by customers."

      "My company, the SCO Group, became a focus of this controversy when we ""fought ""to ""cast...""a shadow over the ""Open Source movement ""by ""alleging ""that UNIX System V code"" in fact"" proprietary software code""."

      "Linux ""is a ""authorized ""work ""not ""derivative ""of ""the ""UNIX System V code""."

      "No one can tolerate ""SCO's ""business model that is ""built only on ""a lawsuit against IBM"". ""Finally, it is clear that the ""SCO Group is ""increasingly alienated from anyone associated ""with ""software ""and ""community."

      "I will continue to ""sue... ""everyone ""...as... ""CEO""."


      Check the letter, every quoted word is in there in some context or another. I see this as just as valid of an interpretation of his letter as he does Bruce Peren's letter and ESR's statements.

      --
      "Everybody knows the moon's made of cheese," Wallace.
  6. Dear all, by arvindn · · Score: 5, Funny

    I have written an open letter to the open source community. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to reveal its contents since that would mean compromising our trade secrets. However, I welcome you to license a copy of my open letter by signing a Non-Disclosure Agreement and payment of $699.
    Yours affectionately,
    Darl McBride
    CEO, SCO Inc.

  7. Pointing the finger in the wrong direction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I read the Letter earlier, and it struck me that as with so much SCO posturing, this one gets it wrong too. Darl points the finger at the Open Source development process and Linus as the problem.

    Instead it is clear to anyone involved in Open Source development that it is the responsibility of the submitter to submit only code they are legally entitiled too. If an SGI developer did strip SCO copyrights from code and was allowed to submit this code to Linus for inclussion, then it is SGI who have the problem. It has long been understood that the very process of submitting code to an Open Source project was an implicit decleration of ownership of that code. The same rules apply in business; unless you're SCO you can only sell something that you own yourself.

    I've yet to see a good rebutal of Darls Open Letter, but I suspect ESR or Bruce is typing one up as we speak..

  8. flamebait? by jtilak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mr. McBride is a troll. don't feed.

  9. How does he know we are intentionally causing by The+Analog+Kid · · Score: 4, Funny

    DDoS attacks, maybe your getting DDoS because everyone's trying to get to your site to buy a Linux license from you.

  10. "talk is cheap" by mOoZik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's all this unsubstantiated talk. If SCO wants the Open Source community to take them seriously, they should publicly release the code which they claim to be in Linux, and furthermore, provide proof that that code did not exist legally before SCO made it "theirs."

  11. IBM has subpoened the Canopy Group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
    IBM filed a discovery subpoena against the Canopy Group, a major SCO investor. Details about it are on the groklaw site although I worry that the groklaw board will get slashdotted if too many people look. The article therefore is reproduced here. (I hope I'm doing groklaw a favor, check out the original link when things calm down a bit please).

    The subpoena sets September 10th as the date for a deposition, at Snell & Wilmer's law offices in Salt Lake City, and instructs that these are the documents Canopy Group's representative, whoever they choose to get deposed on behalf of Canopy, must produce on that date:

    1. All documents concerning this lawsuit, plaintiff's claims or IBM's defenses or counterclaims.

    2. All documents concerning any communications regarding this lawsuit, plaintiff's claims or IBM's defenses or counterclaims.

    3. All documents concerning plaintiff's rights relating to UNIX or Linux.

    4. All documents concerning any strategy, plan, effort, or action (actual or contemplated) to use or enforce (or to threaten to use or enforce) rights to UNIX or Linux.

    5. All documents concerning any open-source license, including the GNU General Public License.

    6. All documents concerning any lawsuit other than this lawsuit (actual or contemplated) involving plaintiff and relating to UNIX or Linux.

    7. All documents concerning any agreement, understanding or communication with Microsoft, Sun, Computer Associates, Tarantella, AT&T, USL, HP or Novell, relating to UNIX or Linux.

    8. All documents concerning plaintiff's efforts to license UNIX or Linux.

    9. All documents concerning plaintiff's alleged evidence of UNIX in Linux.

    10. All documents concerning plaintiff's alleged evidence of misconduct or breaches of duty by IBM.

    11. All documents concerning plaintiff's UNIX or Linux business.

    12. Documents sufficient to show the organizational structure or personnel of The Canopy Group.

    13. All documents relating to the ownership of plaintiff.

    14. All documents relating to purchases or sales of plaintiff's stock since January 1, 2003.

    15. All documents in the possession, custody, or control of Ralph Yarrow, Jan Newman, Darcy Mott, Raymond J. Noorda, Lewena Noorda, Joyce Wiley, Mark Cusick, or Dan L. Baker relating to UNIX, Linux, or this lawsuit.

    16. All documents provided to plaintiff by The Canopy Group or provided to The Canopy Group by plaintiff relating to UNIX, Linux, or this lawsuit.

    17. All documents concerning the decision to commence or pursue this lawsuit or other lawsuits relating to plaintiff's alleged rights relating to UNIX or Linux.

    18. All documents concerning the decision to suspend distribution of plaintiff's Linux products or code.

    19. All documents concerning any analysis of any IBM conduct related to Unix or Linux.

    20. All documents concerning any UNIX source code, derivative works, modification. or methods contributed to Linux or to the open source community by AT&T, USL, Novell, Tarantella, or plaintiff.

    21. All documents concerning the relationship between plaintiff and The Canopy Group.

    22. All documents concerning any statements, declaration, affidavit, analysis, assessment, or opinion rrelating to plaintiff's rights to UNIX or Linux.

    23. All documents concerning any statement, affidavit, declaration, analysis, assessment, or opinion relating to this litigation.

    24. All documents concerning the nature, calculation, and basis of any damages or injuries plaintiff claims in this matter.

    1. Re:IBM has subpoened the Canopy Group by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Funny
      And SCO's going to deliver all this in what, a freight train? Maybe IBM's discovered SCO uses HP printers and is trying to drive them into bancruptcy through the sheer cost of non-refillable toner cartridges. ;)

      I bet the IBM lawyers were laughing their collective asses off while they compiled *that* list... "Ooh, Ooh, I've got a good one! Let's ask for any documents that mention the GPL! Bwaaahaahaahaa!". I love the way the points about "any documents relating to Microsoft" and "sales of stock" that slipped in there too. Now where do you suppose *that's* going? ;)

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  12. Pot calling the kettle... by Thomas+M+Hughes · · Score: 5, Insightful
    By providing Open Source software without a warranty, these largest vendors avoid significant costs while increasing their services revenue.
    I was under the impression that most Proprietary software is offered without a warranty, and often without real support (unless you pay for additional support). Why is what's good for the goose not good for the gander?
  13. An Open Response to Darl McBride's Open Letter by MuParadigm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I posted this in the previous SCO thread, but am reposting it here where it is more appropriate. Most of the typo's have been cleaned up too. You can also see the full text in my journal.

    An Open Response to Darl McBride's Open Letter to the Open Source Community
    (First Draft)

    Dear Mr. McBride,

    First, let me introduce myself. My name is John Gabriel. I have been working in the technical field for 15 years, as a Network Administrator, Applications Manager, Network Manager, Sr. Networking Engineer, and now, Freelance Consultant. And, yes, I'm an MCSE.

    My first experiences with Unix occurred in the late 1970's, during school field trips to local colleges. I also did Unix technical support for students while taking a class in Pascal in the late 1980's. My first experience with Linux dates to 1994, when I downloaded whatever Linux kernel was available at that time.

    While I did install it successfully, on a Compaq Deskpro 386/25, I quickly abandoned it as the system didn't have enough memory to support X Windows. Several years later, in 1998, I became a Caldera customer, with a purchase of Caldera OpenLinux Base ver. 1.22, with Linux kernel 2.0.33. I ran into similar problems again.

    About a year ago, I became interested again Linux, and now run Linux on my home workstation in a dual-boot configuration with Windows XP.

    About 4-5 months ago, I began following the SCO v. IBM story. I was at first inclined to be open-minded towards SCO's claims. It wouldn't be the first time a small company has had its copyrights violated by a larger vendor, though the violator is usually, in my experience, Microsoft, as exemplified by Caldera's history with DR-DOS.

    However, the more I researched the story and SCO's claims, the more convinced I became that SCO's claims were, well, baseless. Being the type that usually likes to "root for the underdog", I was surprised by my conclusions.

    Anyway, that's enough introduction. What follows is an Open Response to your Open Letter to the Open Source Community. I grant everyone, including you, permission to re-publish it, or quote from it, without restriction, except that my comments be properly attributed to myself. Consider it under a "BSD-style" license if you like.

    1) The most controversial issue in the information technology industry today is the ongoing battle over software copyrights and intellectual property. This battle is being fought largely between vendors who create and sell proprietary software, and the Open Source community. My company, the SCO Group, became a focus of this controversy when we filed a lawsuit against IBM alleging that SCO's proprietary Unix code has been illegally copied into the free Linux operating system. In doing this we angered some in the Open Source community by pointing out obvious intellectual property problems that exist in the current Linux software development model.

    Mr. McBride,

    Response to Paragraph 1 of your "Open Letter":

    This is very difficult to respond to, because your analysis of the issues and of the reasons for the Open Source community's anger is, in the words of the great physicist Wolfgang Pauli, "so bad it's not even wrong."

    For instance, your own lawsuit against IBM does not allege that "SCO's proprietary Unix code has been illegally copied into Linux" -- it alleges that code *owned* by IBM but under contractual "control" rights to SCO has been copied into Linux. Surely, you don't dispute that IBM owns the relevant copyrights and patents to NUMA, JFS, and RCU?

    Or do you dispute Section 2 of Exhibit C on your web site, the ATT-IBM sideletter agreement, which states in part, "we (ATT) agree that modifications and derivative works prepared by or for you (IBM) are owned by you"?

    The truth is there are many reasons the Open source community is angered with you and the actions of The SCO Group and The Canopy Group, none of which have to do with "intellectual

    1. Re:An Open Response to Darl McBride's Open Letter by Trigun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Strip the intro, put it up on the web where we can just dump our e-mail address in and fire it off to SCO.

      As soon as I find a good e-mail address, my copy goes.

      Thanks!

    2. Re:An Open Response to Darl McBride's Open Letter by Eunuchswear · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "Nothing can change the fact that a Linux developer on the payroll of Silicon Graphics stripped copyright attributions from copyrighted System V code..."

      Nothing, except, inconveniently, that it is not a fact. The fact is that SGI did extensive due diligence before contributing any code to Linux, and the code in question long precedes the development of Unix System V.

      If SGI did extensive due diligence then why did they strip the original copyright notice from this code?

      Quotes from Perens:

      The oldest version of this code we've found so far is in Donald Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming, published in 1968.
      So the code can't have been legaly copied from there (it's copyright).
      The implementation shown in the slides was written by Dennis M. Ritchie or Ken Thompson at AT&T, in 1973. You can see the 1973 version of the function in this file, originally called dmr/malloc.c. The code is from Unix version 3, the oldest known version of Unix that still exists in machine-readable form. The complete source for that system can be found here on the net. In 2002, Caldera released this code as Open Source, under this license.
      But the license pointed to says:
      Redistributions of source code and documentation must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
      So the code can't have been legaly copied from there as the copyright notice has been removed.

      And finaly Perens argues:

      AT&T was actually found to have lost its copyright to the code in question during the lawsuit, because the code was published without a proper copyright notice.
      Consequently, I find that Plaintiff has failed to demonstrate a likelihood that it can successfully defend its copyright in [Unix version] 32V.
      The result is that between the judge's finding and 1996, when there were additional changes to the Berne copyright convention that would have made the AT&T code copyrightable, the code was essentially in the public domain.
      But, so what? That's talking about Unix 32V, and Perens goes on to say:
      the version that was included in Linux seems to be from System V.
      Which has never been released under any kind of open source license or been put in the public domain.

      So, yes, SGI could have copied the 32V code, but they didn't.

      Or they could have copied the Unix Version 3 code, if they'd included the copyright and license notices, but they didn't.

      But they had no right to copy the System V code at all.

      Perens is right:

      In this case, there was an error in the Linux developer's process (at SGI),
      but this is just wrong:
      It turns out that we have a legal right to use the code in question
      as even Perens admits the code was copied from SysV.
      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    3. Re:An Open Response to Darl McBride's Open Letter by miraclemax · · Score: 5, Informative
      Perens also says of the same code that it was released under open source license by caldera and that's why linux had the right to have it.

      These slides have several C syntax errors and would never compile. So, they don't quite represent any source code in Linux. But we've found the code they refer to. It is included in code copyrighed by AT&T and released as Open Source under the BSD license by Caldera, the company that now calls itself SCO. The Linux developers have a legal right to make use of the code under that license. No violation of SCO's copyright or trade secrets is taking place.

      This is why partial quotes are dangerous. You get to see one line but not the part that came before it, so that makes it look completely different. Please everyone, before you post your opinion on one of these quotes, read the Original Post referred to, or better yet the original article. If you're going to include a quote, make sure it includes the entirity of the idea or else people will get confused.
  14. Re:Well... as lousy as their approach is... by fatbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OSS leaves just as much to "chance" as a closed source model.

    How does a closed-source shop know that one of their developers hasn't cut'n'pasted something from glib? Same was as OSS: ask the developer, and assume that they're not out to screw you.

    Finally, your solution would be expensive - who would pay for it?

  15. Not just attacking GPL anymore? by Bistronaut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This quote sounds like he's trying to "take back" the BSDs:

    "Fair use" applies to educational, public service and related applications and does not justify commercial misappropriation. Books and Internet sites intended and authorized for the purpose of teaching and other non-commercial use cannot be copied for commercial use. We believe that some of the SCO software code that has ended up in the Linux operating system got there through this route. This violates our intellectual property rights.

    1. Re:Not just attacking GPL anymore? by ulmanms · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think this is the most interesting part of the letter, and indicates a change in focus for them, or at least another case of "we're going make every argument we can think of, regardless of the validity"
      This could be read to mean that they claim the BSD release of 'ancient unix' isn't valid for commercial purposes even though it was licensed under a BSD license.
      We're beyond stripped-out copyright attributions (which was Mr. Peren's problem with the SGI code) if that's the case, but I don't think there's anyway to justify this argument. IANAL, maybe someone else is.

  16. Feedback Comment by Richardsonke1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I like the feedback comment at the bottom. I was thinking the same thing before i noticed it was down there. It's so true that it was/is near impposible to check if code was taken out of Unix. Would SCO like to give us a copy of their code? No, so they should just complain whenever they see a problem, and then the Linux community will take it out. It's that simple. No liscensing deals necessary. Here's the quote:
    Nathan Hand commented ... "Secondly, no-one seems to have answered the perfectly legitimate question about the open source development process - just how DO you ensure that code submitted by a developer HASN'T been ripped off, just because the developer claims that it hasn't? McBride IS right when he says that Open Source is still maturing and we DO need to look at, and answer these questions."

    How do you ensure it in any project, open source or closed sourced? You ask the author. You assume they tell the truth. How else could you do it? There's no magic marker on code that says "this is owned by foo". There's no central code repository where you can check ownership of a fragment. If there's no attribution in the comments or the README then there's practically nothing you can do. It's not like the Linux developers have access to SCO's source code so they can check every submission, looking for violations. SCO keeps their code secret. The best that the Linux developers can do is assume the author is telling the truth.

    But this is true for ALL projects. I've worked on commercial projects and I know full well that violations occur. I've seen BSD code dropped into proprietary products with the BSD attributions stripped out. SCO put a slide up at SCOForum... it was code stolen from BSD! SCO thinks it's theirs but the history of the code is well known and it most definitely has gone from BSD to SCO. A SCO developer stole it and assumed nobody would ever know. Why isn't SCO "respecting the IP" of BSD developers?

    The reality is, Linux is far more "IP accountable" than any closed source product. If a company developing a closed source product copied code from SCO, would SCO ever know? Of course not. But any company can look at Linux source code to determine if violations occur. The Linux model encourages transparency and "no secrets". The result is that violations are infrequent (in fact, SCO is the first claimant ever and their case looks VERY weak).

    It's the closed source model where the vast majority of IP violations occur but most of them go by unnoticed.

    There is nothing "immature" about the Linux model. It is following best practises of the industry and then some. SCO is trying to paint a picture of "immaturity" because they want to win this case in the court of public opinion, but I have every confidence that they will never win this case in a court of law.
    --
    "Men lie."
    "Yeah, about sleeping with other women, but never about bioluminescent plankton."
    -Dan Brown
  17. People need to be careful what they say by digitaltraveller · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember after everyone analysed the SCOForum code prominent people saying things like that (eg. Open Source coders violated SCO's license because they didn't include the BSD attribution statement) and I knew right away they made a huge mistake. I'm sorry to see it's been confirmed.
    Anyone who purports to speak for this community should realise the stakes involved and wise up.
    In the efforts of Messrs Perens and Raymond to be balanced and reasonable they have given the enemy (Daryl McBeezlebub) significant ammunition. Quoting people out of context is part of lawsuit public relations 101. SCO will hammer away and keep repeating this like an autistic child and unfortunately some weak minded people will be swayed by this argument. If you ever watch television talk shows this is the most common technique for winning arguments.
    I think Linux is still winning the public relations war but really, please don't accept collective guilt unless you personally fucked up. Because for all we know SGI has legitimate rights to that code.

  18. Re:All that sticky icky icky... by BJZQ8 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can take things out of context too! "The most controversial issue" with having sex with cows "in the information technology industry today is the ongoing battle over software copyrights and intellectual property." ALSO "This battle is being fought largely between" various warring factions in my rectum, and "vendors who create and sell proprietary software, and the Open Source community." AND "My company, the SCO Group, became a focus of this controversy when we filed a lawsuit against IBM alleging that" we would really like to have repeated sex with cows, and "SCO's proprietary Unix code has been illegally copied into the free Linux operating system."

  19. IP Violation on Darl's part? by Smiling_Jack · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Didn't Bruce say the following in his SCO code rebuttal?:
    • You may re-publish this material. You may excerpt it, reformat it and translate it as necessary for your presentation. You may not edit it to deliberately misrepresent my opinion.
    Isn't Darl taking Bruce's words out of context and misrepresenting them? Copyright violation, anyone?....
  20. Good for the goose by ebh · · Score: 4, Insightful
    SCO says: We cannot have a situation in which companies fear they may be next to suffer computer attacks if they take a business or legal position that angers the Open Source community.

    Likewise, we cannot have a situation in which computer users fear they may be next to suffer ruinous litigation if they take a business or legal position that angers SCO.

  21. What Bruce said. Watch the qutation marks!!!! by narrowhouse · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Bruce said:
    "The other SCO code snippet Perens walks through had to do with memory allocation functions in Unix System V and Linux. He says there was, in fact, "an error in the Linux developer's process," specifically a programmer at SGI, and he says while the Linux community had the legal right to this code, it didn't belong in Linux and was therefore removed."

    Was twisted by SCO into:
    "an admission by Open Source leader Bruce Perens that UNIX System V code (owned by SCO) is, in fact, in Linux, and it shouldn't be there. Mr Perens stated that there is "an error in the Linux developer's process" which allowed Unix System V code that "didn't belong in Linux" to end up in the Linux kernel"

    So by saying it was REMOVED (we will say it slow so you can follow along Darl), Bruce Perens admitted that it ended up in the Linux kernel? Can SCO tell the truth at all, or do they all just live on Bizarro world?

    --


    Insert pithy comment here.
  22. McBrides new troll by spektr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    May I suggest that we just ignore this new troll from McBride?

    It add nothing substantially new to the discussion.

    The only thing McBride hopes to accomplish with this letter is to discredit the community once again. It makes no sense to dissect the letter and refute every false claim, because this will either be ignored or countered with more lies. Can we just stay calm and think of ways to get through to the few uninformed decision makers who believe the libel.

  23. This letter has a purpose... by entrager · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...and it's *not* meant as an "open letter to the open source community." This letter was written as a PR move, plain and simple. It's riddled with half-truths and full-on lies. McBride knew damn well that the open source community would be able to debunk almost everything he says, but he also know that the media wouldn't. Mr. Reporter reading this letter will simply take everything in it as fact and report it, which is exactly what SCO wants. After all, why would this letter contain lies? So far the media has barely touched SCO's opposition, but take a look at the list of headlines that simply discuss SCO's claims.

    Last week someone made a comment that noted that SCO releases something like this right before some of the executives stock is scheduled to sell. The comment closed with something along the lines of "look for more FUD on Monday." Hmmm... is Tuesday close enough?

  24. Open letter to Darl McBride by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 4, Informative
    Sir

    You are a liar, a fraud, and a thief.

    You are a liar (if in nothing else) in deliberately misquoting Bruce Perens' analysis of the memory allocation routines which SGI contributed to Linux. Bruce Perens clearly did not say (as you claim he did) that we had allowed '...Unix System V code that "didn't belong in Linux" to end up in the Linux kernel' (my emphasis). He nowhere agreed that this was System V code.

    You are a fraud in that you you claim that these routines are your company's property. They are not property, and they are not yours. They aren't yours, they weren't SGI's, they weren't AT&T's. You cannot inherit from others that which they do not own.

    Algorithms for allocating memory have been developed over a period of over half a century by software developers studying and improving on one another's code. No implementation of these algorithms exists in isolation; none is fresh hewn from virgin intellectual territory. Improvements are incremental and have largely developed in an open and collegiate environment. Linux may, indeed, have learned some things from UNIX[tm]; but UNIX in its turn got the algorithms from MULTICS, TRIPOS, CPL and others lost even further in the mists of time. You cannot simply stop this process at an arbitrary point and say 'now this is property'. It is not property, it's a commons, a commons tilled and tended by many hands, to bring it to the state it is today.

    And so, Sir, lastly, I say you are a thief. You are a thief in that you seek to enclose commons, to deprive the community of the rightful fruits of its labours over many decades, to make property what is not, never was, and never could be property. To steal our work and sell it back to us.

    Sincerely

    Simon Brooke

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  25. To be totally accurate... by RevMike · · Score: 4, Informative
    The assertion that the code is owned by SCO is made only by Mr. McBride...

    McBride is technically correct, although misleading. According to Perens (via the second link in the slashdot blurb) "It is included in code copyrighed by AT&T and released as Open Source under the BSD license by Caldera, the company that now calls itself SCO."

    To sum up, the code in question is owned by SCO, but using said code in Linux is permissable under the license terms by which the code was released. The "crime" here was that the SGI developer stripped the copyright notice.

    Remember that under virtually all open source license agreements, the code continues to be owned by the copyright holder, but a nearly unlimited license to use, distribute, and create derivative works is granted to the public.

    1. Re:To be totally accurate... by jimsum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      SCO also seems to have missed a little irony here as well. The infringer was working for a company; he wasn't a commie hacker working on open source in the basement of his parent's house. This code was "developed" under the watchful eye of responsible capitalists, yet copyright infringement happened anyway. I wonder what copyright infringements there might be in SGI's (or even SCO's) proprietary code, and why SCO doesn't seem too worried about that.

      --
      -- Pot is safer than Beer
  26. Changing my mind on Copyright Assignment by ChaoticCoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I first started working on an OpenMP extension to gcc, I bristled at the FSF copyright assignment process.

    I was wrong. I now see the value in FSF copyright assignments, which create a paper trail for documenting contributions to free software.

    While the SCO attack dogs are extortionists, their greedy actions have shown weaknesses in the free-wheeling process of Linux development.

    The "free" and "open" software communities can argue, until they are blue in the face, about the validity of copyrights, patents, trademarks, and other forms of owning ideas. Under existing law and practice, however, those concepts do exist, with the weight of law and tradition behind them -- and ignoring that reality is foolhardy.

    Think of copyright assignment as akin to virus protection. I shouldn't have to protect myself against malicious software, but I am wise to do so. By the same principle, tracking contributions to the kernel is excellent protection from the desperate shakedown tactics of a company like SCO.

  27. The article is almost not worth reading... by dmayle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It contains such juicy tidbits like:

    In the long term, the financial stability of software vendors and the legality of their software products are more important to enterprise customers than free software.

    I think the enterprises customers can speak for themselves on this matter, and they clearly have spoken...

    In enterprise installations, it is customary for the customer to be charged an additional 15% of whatever they payed for the software each year for maintenance. (which ends up being about 13% of the total).

    Let's take a theoretical enterprise customer who owns 12,428 computers (you'll see the reason for the oddball number in a moment). Now, if they just spent $700 per client on software, plus an additional 15% on maintenance, they've spent about 10 million in total. Now let's assume that the client software was free, but the maintenance stays the same, then the company has gone from spending 10 million, to ~1.3 million. Now let's suppose that someone at this company likes round numbers, so they take an additional .7 million and hire 10 people (at a nice $70k/position). The company has just saved 8 million dollars (!!!), and now has an additional team of 10 developers whose sole job is to make sure that the client software works best in their environments... The customer doesn't have to re-release this code, because they're not selling it, so no liability for them. And even if they decide to (which we hope they will), it's not part of their product line, so they're not directly helping their competitors...

    Face it, McBride, enterprise customers are the ones for whom it makes the most sense to go to free software, and to not put all of their eggs in one basket (software company).

    The reason the Darl McBride's of the world don't like Open Source is it takes large amounts of money that went to a single company, where it could be nicely controlled and funneled to the top of the hierarchy (CEOs and the like), and instead distributes it in smaller amounts, spread out, and only to the people who can get the work done.

    The large corporations of the world are spending this money anyway, and Open Source is just a way for the doers (developers, admins, e.g. instead of deciders/managers) to take a share.

    I know it sounds awfully corny, but in a society that's doing it's best to recreate nobility and privilege, open source is way of taking some power back for the people. The cathedral creates centralization of power and wealth, which lead to class hierarchies. The bazaar distributes power, which leads to an educated and informed participant, and higher standards of living for the majority.

  28. Re:perens by amcguinn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What you say might be true, but it's far from clear. The code was also present in the 32V version of Unix, and if SGI copied from that, the lack of AT&T copyright notice would be explained by the fact that it was never there in the first place!

    Since the code was clearly modified after being extracted from whatever version of Unix (it contains Linux-specific locking calls), it will probably be impossible to tell whether it was improperly copied from System V or properly copied from 32V.

  29. FUD at its finest here folks... by gaijin99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Finally, it is clear that the Open Source community needs a business model that is sustainable, if it is to grow beyond a part-time avocation into an enterprise-trusted development model. Free Open Source software primarily benefits large vendors, which sell hardware and expensive services that support Linux, but not Linux itself. By providing Open Source software without a warranty, these largest vendors avoid significant costs while increasing their services revenue
    Emphasis mine. Notice the deft way he manages to imply, without ever saying so openly, that propriatary software does have warranties. In fact if you look at any propriatary software package it contains a disclaimer of warranty, meaning that they are explicitly denying that any warranty exists.

    By prefacing his "no warranty" line with a patronizing "Open Source must become more mature" statement he gets two for one. We, of course, recognize this to be yet another of the blatiantly false bits of tripe that McBride has come to be known for. Despite its misleading "Open letter to the Open Source Community" title we are not the target audience for this; the target audience is the managers who make the financial decisions, but don't actually know what is going on. His careful implication that propriatary software is warranted may be effective with them...

    Finally, we have his implication, again never explicitly stated, that Open Source is nothing more than a bunch of neo-hippies. Since most managerial types are politically conservative, and old enough to remember and dislike hippies, this implication is intended to strike at the average manager's prejudices. If he can get "Open Source == Damn Hippies" into many people's heads he believes, possibly rightly, that this will create a more hostile environment towards Open Source (much like the current "Open Souce == Communist" line of BS).

    On a related note, I'll also point out a bit of his tripe that is aimed at us. His repeated implications that the Open Source concept were fine as long as we were working with toy systems, but now that we want to be grown ups we must adapt to the prevailing (propriatary) business model. This is intended specifically to cause doubt and fear in the Open Source community. Those who haven't given the isssue much thought may agree with this. It is nonesense. The Open Source model is a competitor to the Propriatary model. It is not inferior, and it may be superior. When Henry Ford invented the assembly line he did not think to himself "Well, I guess the Assembly Line was OK as a toy system, but now that I want to be a big boy I'd better switch over to the way everyone else does it." So too, must we refuse to be tricked into believing that the Open Source development model is for children. It is not. It is new, it is different, and it must compete in order to prove its superiority.

    --
    "Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
  30. Subpoena has many outs for Canopy by gvc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The full text of the subpoena contains several provisions whereby Canopy may apply to withold documents. These provisions include the protection of privelege, litigation strategy, and trade secrets. I expect Canopy's lawyers to avail themselves of these provisions.

  31. Re:Typo-IMPORTANT by MuParadigm · · Score: 4, Informative


    No, "unreasonable" is the correct word, however you're right in that the meaning of the sentence would be clearer if the phrase "unreasonable licensing obligations" were changed to "unreasonable proprietary licensing obligations".

    Feel free to make this change if you forward/post it anywhere else.

  32. a paraphrased interpretation of his letter by CrudPuppy · · Score: 5, Funny

    ----
    a paragraph-by-paragraph interpretation
    of what he really meant to say
    ----

    blah blah blah opening fluff

    what we're doing is beneficial for us and for our secret
    backer in Redmond because we want to spread as much fear about Linux
    as possible before 90% of the people realize it is a superior product
    to Windows for a cheaper price

    whine whine whine, our website got DoS'd

    keep attacking us and your company will fire you when they
    find out that you're a Linux advocate because they will
    just associate you with other open source "outlaws"

    now I'm going to talk about how we paid people to put
    System V code into Linux. normally these people would
    be fired and sued, but we would rather go after Linux.

    now I want to talk about why the Linux model can never
    succeed because nobody can possibly ever be sure that
    people with access to System V source won't sneakily
    inject more into Linux. The Catch-22 here is that the
    people auditing Linux code most likely don't have access
    to AIX, IRIX, Solaris, etc source code. "Hey Bill, isn't
    this great!! we're gonna make a fortune on this lawsuit!"

    Now I'm going to spend 10 paragraphs explaining copyright
    laws, but I will conveniently omit the reasons why we are
    persuing the *product* of a crime rather than the people
    that perpetrated the crime itself. Remember how I mentioned
    the SGI programmer and how we know plenty more like him?
    Well we're letting him off the hook because his criminal
    acts have been the best thing that ever happened to SCO
    and SCO's Redmond backer.

    Finally I would like to end by justifying SCO's behavior
    on the whole. Why should we go around suing the living daylights
    out of everyone and spreading FUD about a platform
    that was the result of countless volunteer hours and
    philantropic contributions? Because we can! Isn't this great?
    We live in a world where this behavior is not only allowed,
    but also encouraged!! Now just wait until Bill^H^H^H we
    pay off a few judges and lawmakers and have Linux officially
    owned by SCO so at long last Windows^H^H^H we can prevail!

    Sincerely,
    Jerkoff McBride

    --
    A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
  33. SCO depend on BSD code by ananiasanom · · Score: 5, Interesting

    'ancient unix' isn't valid for commercial purposes even though it was licensed under a BSD license.

    Oops, SCO OpenUnix or whatever they call it this week just lost the X Window system, developed by MIT and released under a BSD-like license. Darn, the TCP/IP support written at Berkely and released under a BSD license isn't valid for commercial purposes either.

    There seems to be more of this open source stuff around than SCO are aware of...

  34. The Economics of Open Source by jimsum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the CEOs of software companies are hoping the software business will become just like the music business, where the creators and consumers get shafted and all the profits go to the middleman.

    Fortunately, I don't think the software industry will necessarily go that way. Software is valuable to its creator in and of itself; it doesn't need to be sold to create value (although it can be sold to create additional value). A CD is of less use to a musician; it must be sold before the creator gets much value from it. This difference will ensure that there will always be open source software.

    There is another factor at play in this as well. A lot of companies that create proprietary software are outsourcing their development to India and other cheap countries. Pretty soon, the only development done in the U.S. will be open source. We should support American programmers, and use only open source software! In fact, if open source software were in wider use, there would be more demand for American programmers. With open source, there is plenty of generic code lying around and all that has to be done is customization for a particular business need. Outsourcing is really only good for the mechanical programming tasks, which are already done for you with open source development.

    --
    -- Pot is safer than Beer
  35. Re:perens by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People are quibbling about the wrong details here.

    The fact remains that a proprietary software development organization "screwed up". SCO is attempting to claim a standard of due diligence that doesn't exist. He is trying to damn Free Software by using an example where PROPRIETARY software development erred.

    Of course, he is also glossing over the fact that the intellectual property of most companies is not visible enough to "protect". You can't avoid assimilating that which you by definition cannot recognize. There is no reasonable process that could be carried out to ensure that an arbitrary piece of code isn't come companies proprietary source.

    Free Software exposes this potential problem. However, it is still the least likely to be effected.

    It is far easier to plagarize TO a an unpublished work than to plagarize FROM it.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  36. Re:Mormon implies scoundrel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
    No. Wrong.

    "What comes of litigation? Poverty and degradation to any community that will encourage it. Will it build cities, open farms, build railroads, erect telegraph lines and improve a country? It will not; but it will bring any community to ruin." -Brigham Young, JD 11:259.

    All the tech-aware mormons I know are just as outraged about the SCOurge of McBride and his cronies as you are.

  37. Re:perens by mj01nir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Darl sez: The second development was an admission by Open Source leader Bruce Perens that UNIX System V code (owned by SCO) is, in fact, in Linux, and it shouldn't be there. Mr Perens stated that there is "an error in the Linux developer's process" which allowed Unix System V code that "didn't belong in Linux" to end up in the Linux kernel (source: ComputerWire, August 25, 2003). Mr Perens continued with a string of arguments to justify the "error in the Linux developer's process."

    But Bruce actually said: In this case, there was an error in the Linux developer's process (at SGI), and we lucked out that it wasn't worse. It turns out that we have a legal right to use the code in question, but it doesn't belong in Linux and has been removed.

    And at the top of Bruce's slide show analysis: You may re-publish this material. You may excerpt it, reformat it and translate it as necessary for your presentation. You may not edit it to deliberately misrepresent my opinion.

    Get 'em Bruce!

    --
    the no .sig .sig