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RIAA Sues 12-Year Old Girl
tcp100 noted an article running at fox about
The RIAA suing a 12 Year Old girl: "'I got really scared. My stomach is all turning,' Brianna said last night at the city Housing Authority apartment where she lives with her mom and her 9-year-old brother."
More nonsense from the media to generate hyped headlines so that retards buy their newspaper. They're not suing the 12 yr old.. they're suing the person responsible for the internet connection. The headline is entirely misleading.
Social engineering is right. The BBC is also reporting that the RIAA is suing a 71 year old man. Apparently his grandchildren were coming over to his house and downloading music.
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According to the article:
The family signed up for the Kazaa (search) music-swapping service three months ago, and paid a $29.99 service charge.
In that case RIAA should be suing Kazaa for providing service and content which they have no authorization to OR the family should be suing RIAA for misleading them OR maybe the family didnt read the License agreement...
But this makes me wonder as to what RIAA is doing about the websites that charge users fee and tell them they can download any number of unlicensed MP3s from their P2P application ??
An example is this site that I found by clicking on 'Search' hyperlink in article text:
Site offering unlicensed music for $0.97 a month
In case the site gets slashdotted, I am copying and pasting the content of the site (without any HTML formatting):
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A few years back ASCAP threated to sue the girl scouts for singing campfire songs without a license.
"They buy paper, twine and glue for their crafts - they can pay for the music, too," says John Lo Frumento, ASCAP's chief operating officer. If offenders keep singing without paying, he says, we will sue them if necessary." I don't think the RIAA will care that they are going after children.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
So they decide to sue a 12 year old girl. Brilliant PR move. Might as well use orphans for firewood.
Her parent(s) are responsible and will assume the debt, if a lawsuit is successful.
A Good Intro to NetBS
How is this "sharing" different than going to Yahoo's Launch Network and finding most popular songs and downloading/ripping from the stream?
Simple searches on Windows Media Player bring up many popular songs and of good quality, better than radio in many cases, and definitely good enough to listen to, unless your an audiophile.
It's not that minors can't asssume debt, it's that they can't enter into legally binding contracts. That's why the cosigns are required. Credit card agreements and loans require written legal contracts.
...that fox is reprinting.
The URL for the slightly more indepth new york post article is http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/5349.htm
This would be a good time for the People invoke jury nullification, assuming any of these go to trial. (Note that the Bill of Rights grants any RIAA victim a right to jury for lawsuits worth over $20 if they decide to take this to trial.)
So what is jury nullification? It is the principle that jury's may find a defendent "not guilty" if the law is unjust. This harkens back to British colonial days and is the primary reason we have juries in the Bill of Rights: both the defendent AND the law are judged. It is the Peoples' last check against unjust law when the three branches of government fail.
A prominent case of this was when William Penn, founder of Pennsylvania, was charged with assembling Quakers for worship when only the Church of England was permitted to assemble. (Again, pre-Revolution colonial days.) Though the jury found that he did indeed do just that, they gave a "not guilty" verdict on the grounds that the law was unjust. The judge held the jury without food and water for a couple of days and imposed fines, demanding that they give a "guilty" verdict, but they refused to budge. Events like this are what inspired our nation's founders to recognize the right of juries over the judge and the law. Jury nullifications also played an important role in overturning Prohibition. Juries often ruled against the law even when finding that the law had been broken, thus making Prohibition unenforceable, and I believe some regions of the nation still regularly have non-violent marijuana prosecutions lost due to jury nullification.
Jury's are unfortunately not informed of this right when they go to trial. I believe during the slave days the government realized that it was near impossible to get a conviction for violating the Fugitive Slave Act since people in the northern state juries, which was the only place the law really had any use, would rule "not guilty" on the grounds that the law was unjust. And so the government sadly decided to stop telling juries of their right to jury nullification.
So how does this apply to the RIAA? Well if enough 12 year olds, or any one else for that matter, being sued millions of dollars for downloading music take it to court then the People (ie-the juries) could toss out the cases as being unjust. Given enough of these rulings, the law could be forced to change to reflect what the People consider just or the RIAA could be forced to change tactics. Though this will remain unlikely if we do not go back to informing juries of their rights. (Plus stacking the jury by having the prosecution quiz them instead of making it truly random also undermines things...) So write to your state and federal legislative representatives today and demand that they pass laws requiring judges to inform juries of their "jury nullification" rights!
"The State is that great fiction by which everyone lives at the expense of everyone else." -Frederic Bastiat.
Before the copyright lobby achieved the passage of the NET act non-commercial copying of material could be considered fair use thus not copyright infringement -- since there was no commercial gain involved.
. htm
The NET act changes are here - http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/17-18red
Note the changes are very specifically targeting exactly the type of trading of files that goes on in p2p, without those changes the RIAA's case would be much much weaker.
IIRC The changes to the law were made in response to a lawsuit against an operator of an FTP server who managed to avoid infringement charges because there was no commercial gain involved.
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Until you are 18 years old, you don't exist as a legal entity in the US. You cannot sign binding contracts, cannot sue or be sued, etc. They can sue her parents who are legally responsible for her actions. It is completely inaccurate to say that she will be sued because that cannot happen in US courts.
-- Adam
The parents are responsible as they most likely set up the account.
And? KaZaA itself is legal, at least until proven otherwise in a court of law. Purchasing an account on a legal service, well you might say it's exactly the same thing as purchasing the ISP account.
I can't speak for the US, but here (Norway) I doubt letting a minor use KaZaA unsupervised would be counted as substantial neglect (only way liability for the parents would be unlimited). For any other damage your minor child might inflict, the liability is limited to 5000 NOK (about 6-700$).
Of course, assuming that it was actually she that downloaded the music. But quite frankly I find that quite likely. It was reported here that 70%+ of our school children were downloading mp3s. Why would this be any exception?
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
That's the amount specified by the laws governing copyright infringement -- $150K per instance.
For example, if you make a copy of a book, sell 100 copies, and get caught, you can be sued for 15 million dollars by the publisher.
Did you guys actually RTFA? First of all, it's on FOX news. That should raise a couple red flags right there. Secondly, the "article" has typos in it. "When reporters visited teh apartment last night, [...]" Thirdly, the headling is a bald-face lie: "12-Year-Old Sued for Music Downloading." The RIAA is not suing anyone for music downloading, they're suing them for music sharing. FOX couldn't even get that right.
And I love little gems like this one: "Brianna -- who her mom says is an honors student" LOL! I'll bet she does. Wouldn't a real journalist put forth at least the tiniest bit of effort to verify things in their stories? Couldn't they have asked to see a recent report card or something? Newsflash: EVERY parent will tell you their child is "an honors student."
This article is pure, emotional, irrational crap. Maybe if Mom was half as smart as her "honor roll" daughter, she'd have clued in that downloading music you didn't pay for was wrong, and maybe she should have paid more attention to what her genius (yet thieving) daughter was up to.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Just another chapter in a long saga of stupidity.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
The Audio Home Recording Act only allows first-generation recordings - not making copies of copies of copies of copies. Look here.
The DMCA didn't outlaw making copies - it still allows fair use copies - see page 4 of this PDF.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
[rant]
What are you talking about? Did I say that I thought Gore should have won? I don't care that he had more electoral votes than Bush did. I know the rules of the election, and I support the outcome.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. The point is that (if you believe the source quoted above) more people use file sharing, mostly for "illegal" purposes, than voted for EITHER of them.
Super move RIAA: attack children. This will certainly endear you to the masses.
Here's the critical issue: the RIAA doesn't and will never have a PR issue because consumers don't know what the RIAA is. The RIAA really is a front for several recording companies to do their dirty work while protecting their precious brand images.
You don't hear "Sony Records is suing a 12 year old." Rather, it's done by proxy. Were the recording companies forced to conduct their own lawsuits independently, they would be much less likely to do anything publicly. After all, the damage to brand equity would far outweigh the lost sales
Any contractual obligations made with a minor child are legally invalid. However, the mother paid for the Kazaa service, not the child. She is the one that is liable. This is similiar to a situation where your minor child breaks someone's window or otherwise damages someone else's property: the legal guardian(s) of the minor child is/are liable to make resititution.
Another important legal question (and IANAL) but it is something I have been wondering throughout. If the RIAA sues people, don't they have to prove that they have suffered damages and losses?
No. The relevant statutes provide for assumed damages.
C//
You answered your own question. You are not sharing if you record a song from the radio or a movie from HBO. That is fair use. Uploading them to millions of others is illegal dstribution, a violation of copyright. Grow up and learn the law.
I understand that you're primarily talking about deterrence, but come now, Locke wrote about property before 'intellectual property' even entered our vocabulary. Physical property is not governed by the same criteria as intellectual property (see this discussion of Copyright Law for a detailed explanation). You are in fact pointing out, albiet unknowingly, the big problem with intellectual property law: namely, that it treats IP like physical property.
Back during the Oil Embargo to conserve fuel?
Not for reasons of public safety?
Yes, that was how the NMSL was sold to the American public in 1973. It was made permanent in 1975 by Congress on the basis of the drop in traffic fatalities that occurred at the same time. Of course, the Arab oil embargo might have had a minor role to play in reducing traffic-related deaths too, but hey, all that extra revenue was too much for the states to let go of when the embargo ended.
Twenty years later, it became (literally) painfully obvious that unreasonably-low highway speed limits were costing more lives than they saved, and the NMSL was repealed. If you look at a graph of fatalities per hundred-million vehicle miles travelled (which is the only meaningful statistic in the traffic safety business, not the death rate per capita used to justify the NMSL in the first place), you'll see a slow and almost monotonic decline beginning in the early Seventies and continuing to the present day. The correlation between posted highway speed limits and the death rate is much more often negative than positive. The reasons are probably twofold: (1) nobody pays that much attention to highway speed limits anyway; and (2) higher limits on the Interstates encourage the diversion of traffic from slower but far-more-dangerous secondary roads.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
In fact, I got my first ADSL in my own name when I was 17 (the age of majority here is 19).
Hardware, software, and blinking lights!
You think people downloading music are doing it becaues they "need" to?
Actually, they do!
My newphew is part of the video production class at school. Using older PowerPCs they produce the morning announcements, which include music clips. He is encouraged, and required to download music to add to the schools's archive of music. Not doing do would greatly affect his grade.
It goes without saying the teacher involved is doing something that could get the kids sued... it didn't change the credits reflecting that napster was responcible for providing the music, since changed to kazza.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Here's the text of the petition; you can sign it if you like at mediareform.net.
First of all, that's bullshit. The full statement you're looking for is, "Ignorance of the law is no defense." The point the parent poster raised isn't one of ignorance of the law, but of the technology.
Secondly, ignorance of the law IS a valid defense--if the law is non-obvious, or not commonly known. If your behaviour is (a) common and reasonable, but (b) violates an obscure and obtuse law, you're more likely to get the charges thrown out than not. (Assuming that (c) you haven't done material damage to someone/something)
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
There's a difference in the bill between its intent and its wording. The intent, very obviously, was an agreement between the RIAA and the People, arbitrated by the government - we'll pay you a few cents for every blank tape or CD we buy, and in return, you won't try to sue private users for the occasional act of piracy. (since the amount you're making off the CD surcharge is FAR more than what you'd lose in sales to non-professional pirates) This is a perfectly fair, reasonable, and all around good solution to the problem. The surcharge doesn't financially inconvenience anyone directly, but collectively it adds up to millions going to the RIAA. Win-win. Unfortunately, the bill does not SAY this. The literal wording ONLY gives you the right to make a single "fair use" personal copy of a work. Which makes it a complete ripoff since we de facto had those rights ANYWAY thanks to the Betamax decision and a couple other related SCOTUS precedents in the early 80s. All it did was codify what was already an established Supreme Court judgement. (which, if you're not up on your civics, carries force of law) And further, the DMCA, by extension, destroys even that "right." Technically, if the album is encrypted in some fashion, all your Fair Use rights go out the window - you're paying that surcharge to the RIAA and getting nothing in return. I personally think one could build a strong case based around this. If we no longer have legal Fair Use rights to make a personal copy of albums\movies we buy, then that surcharge is accordingly illegal - it amounts to a criminal punishment on people convicted of no crime. Or, in reverse, it could be said you cannot be sued for copying an encrypted CD (as per the DMCA) precisely because you've paid the RIAA their piracy surcharge. (note: This applies only to the US version of the bill, I've heard the Canadian one has subtlely different wording and can actually support the theory that all personal copying is legal)
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
I seem to recall Disney sending threat letters to Day Care centers a few years ago. Basically the letters said that the centers couldn't put on a VHS tape of the Little Mermaid to entertain the kids for a couple hours unless the centers paid a royalty to Disney.
God forbid you visit this link.
The following are sueing a 12 year old girl:
1500 Records 20G Entertainment 241 Records 2Ksounds 32 Records 333 Music 4AD Records 4th & Broadway 5 Minute Walk 5.1 Entertainment 510 Records 550 Music 57 Records A& E Latin Music A&M Records A440 Records Abkco Acony Records AD Records Aftermath/Shady Aleho Alice Alliance Alligator Records Almo Sounds Amaru Records Ambar Records American Empire American Recording Amiata Records Andy Prieboy Angel Angels Antilles Antone's Antra Records Apple Archive Ardent Aries Music Entertainment, Inc. Arista Latin Arista Nashville Arista Records Ark 21 Arsenal Artanis Arte Nova Artemis Artist Direct/Kneeling Elephant Astoria Entertainment Astralwerks Records Asylum Records Atco Atlantic Atlantic Classics Atlantic Nashville ATO Records Atrium Records AV8 Records Avatar Records Avenue Records AVI Aware AWOL Records Axiom B.E.C. Back Porch Records Bad Boy Entertainment Bad Dog Records Ballers Entertainment Baphomet Housecore Barak Entertainment Barb Wire Productions Barco Records Bass Productions Beat Club Beauty Records Beginner's Bible Beiler Bros Records Belart Bellmark Belly Soundtrack Benson Record Berman Brothers Best Side Beyond Music Bibleman Big Baller Big Beat Records Big Cat/Work Big Deal Big Dog Records Big Ear Music Big Head Todd Big Idea Productions Big Records Big Screen Music Big Tree Big Wadd Big World Bigtyme Records Billy Corgan Biv Ten Records Black Market Records Black Out Black Pumpkin Records Black Top Records Blackground (Barry & Sons, Inc.) Blackground Records Blackheart Blackstone Bliss Productions Blix Street Blood and Fire Bloodline Records Blue Gorilla Blue Jackel Entertainment Blue Note Blue Plate Blue Thumb Bluebird Blues Bureau BMG Classics BMG Entertainment BMG U.S. Latin BNA Records Bob Marley Music Bocelli-Sogno Bohemia Bon Jovi Box Tunes Branford Marsalis Breakaway B-Rite Broadway MCA Brody Records Broken Bow Records Broken Records Brutal Records Bullseye Bungalow Records Burnside C2 Cadena Records Cadence Christian Caliente Candle In The Wind Cannan Capitol Nashville Capitol Records Capricorn Cargo Records Cash Money Records Catalyst Caviant Cell Block Records Celtic Corner Celtic Heartbeat Chameleon Records Charisma Cheeba Sounds Cherry Entertainment Chignon Records Children Chord Chordant Christian Music Group Chronicles/PSM Chrysalis Music Group Chuck Life Cintas Acuario Circular Moves City of Hope Cky Classic Tracs Clatown Records Clean Slate Climate C-Loc Records Clockwork CMC International CMG Cold Chillin' Records Colli Park Music Columbia Records Command Conifer Contemporary Coolhunter Records Coolsville Productions Copacabana Records Costarola Cotillion Covenant Artists Crazy Cat Crescent Moon Crime Partners Critique Records Crowne Music Group Crystal Lewis Crystal Rose CTW/Sesame Street Curb Curb/Rising Tide Cyan Records Cypress D & D Records Da Border Music, Inc. Dagger Records Dali Records Damian Music Damian US Latin Dancing Cat Dare 2BU, Inc. DAS Day Spring Daywind Music Group DCC Death Row Debris Records Debut Decca Deep Purple Def Jam Def Soul Delicious Vinyl Delos Denon Desert Storm DGG DHM Digital Theater System, Inc. Disa Discipline Disques Vogue DJ Honda Recordings DKC DM Music DM Records, Inc. DMY DMZ Doggystyle Records Domo Records Dopehouse Records Down in the Delta JV Dr. Dream DreamWorks DreamWorks Nashville Drive Thru Records Duck Down Music DV8 Records E Pluribus Unum Eagle Rock Eaglevision Earthbeat Earthdance East Side Digital East West Records Easydisc ECM Eddie Soundtrack Edel America Records Edel Entertainment Edito Classica Edmonds Record Group Elektra Asylum Elektra Entertainment Group Elektra Musician group Elementree Records Ellipsis Arts Elton John Elvis Tribute Project EMD Music Emergent Music Marketing EMI Classics EMI Gospel Music EMI Latin EMI Records Eminent Empire Records Enjoy Records Epic Epic Nashville Epidrome Equinox Music ERATO ESC Records
Not necessarily. Parent's aren't generally responsible for the debts of their children. There's cases of kids putting out other kids' eyes with toys where the parents weren't held responsible.
Read Bujold. Free (as in
What really strangles my mongoose here is that the RIAA said they were going after the worst offenders.
I've seen Direct Connect servers where you have to be sharing 100GB just to *get in*... so lets call a "worst offender" somebody who shares more than that. First off, chances are the girl hasn't downloaded that much... I doubt Britney, Christina and the rest of the gang have even released that much music.
I see only two possibilities here:
1. The RIAA is lying, and they're going after anyone haphazardly.
2. The parents have actually been downloading shitloads for whatever reasons (possibly selling CDs) and blaiming their daughter.
Obviously, the former is much more likely.
Now my mongoose is safe.
The old truism is that if you look a generation or two back at any big family fortune, you'll find some laws broken...
Vast wealth virtually requires playing fast and loose with the rules of society Case in point--I give you Mr. Gates and his anti-trust difficulties. Or, if you prefer, you could consider the Kennedys and Joe's bootlegging activities.
The mere fact that you get to keep the money (again, consider Mr. Gates or Mr. Kennedy...) doesn't mean that your means of getting it were entirely honorable.
They rapidly announced today that they've agreed to a $2000 settlement, and went so far as to make a nice little public apology and promise to never do it again.
AP Excite News Story
It's just a shame that the family couldn't get help from a high powered lawyer who wanted to make a name for himself in this case. The publicity alone would have been phenomenal. Oh well. The RIAA has won yet another round on their campaign to step all over people.
Londovir
Londovir