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Senate Approves Measure to Undo FCC Rules

fortheloveofjava writes "The Washington Post says here that the Senate voted 55 to 40 today to wipe out all of the Federal Communication Commission's controversial new media rules, employing a little used legislative tool for overturning agency regulations. If you signed the MOVEON.org petition, an image of part of it is visible here with sponsoring senators Senators Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Trent Lott (R-MS)."

37 of 503 comments (clear)

  1. What worries me most by T1girl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    is the part that says, "Even if passed by the House, the White House has promised a veto."

    1. Re:What worries me most by fjordboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There was a quote in the article that mentioned that even if the bill does go through, it basically just rolls back the legislation to June 2, which isn't a bad deal for most involved. This doesn't repeal everything that the FCC wants, it is just giving them an option to "try again." I wouldn't worry too much about Bush vetoing it, even if he does, with this much of congress against the FCC in this case, I think they'll revise the bill of their own accord.

    2. Re:What worries me most by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting
      My impression was that the veto was threatened more than "promised" (although haven't seen an original quote either way).

      Anyway, I don't believe it. Bush hasn't used his veto much (has he vetoed anything?) and I very much doubt this is the time and issue where he's going to start, especially with major Republicans prominently supporting the measure.

    3. Re:What worries me most by the_mad_poster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And that surprises you? This is Bush we're talking about. He's hardly been a shining example of fairness, intelligence, and respectability so far.

      A white house veto isn't necessarily the death of it though.. it can still go back for a vote and get passed if it gets a 2/3 vote in each Chamber. That bastardized version of a president we currently have isn't all powerful just yet...

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    4. Re:What worries me most by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Typically, a bill that doesn't get the 2/3 majority the first time around won't have it the second time if needed to override a veto. It'd take having the political environment shift during the time in between to make several Senators who voted "no" the first time to vote "yes" the second time.

    5. Re:What worries me most by Elfan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I do not belive Bush has vetoed anything yet.

      Reference "Instead we are getting the first full presidential term to go without a veto since John Quincy Adams."
      National Review

    6. Re:What worries me most by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Direct hard money contributions to the campaigns haven't been nearly as much of a factor as the soft money, which amounted to half a billion dollars in the 1999-2000 election cycle.

      I agree with a recent editorial in The Atlanta Journal Constitution that hopes the SCOTUS upholds the McCain-Feingold closing of soft money loopholes.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    7. Re:What worries me most by UdoKeir · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's right. I generally happens every 10 years (in Texas at least).
      The last time it happened, the situation had to be settled by a district court judge. That was in 2001.
      Now the Texas Republicans want to redistrict again. They didn't like the last result so they're changing parliamentary rules in order to get their plan shoved through. This is all at the behest of the Bush Whitehouse.
      It is not normal to redistrict every 2 years. This is what you do when you want to guarantee getting elected, because you've fscked the economy up so much that you can't get enough of the popular vote to carry you into office.
      It's a bit like getting your brother to block minorities from voting in the state that he's running.
      State Police headlight checks in minority neighbourhoods near the polling station on election day? Perfectly normal.
      Scrubbing thousands of citizens from the voting rolls because their name sounds like that of a convicted felon in another state? Nothing to see here.
      Stupid fsck.

  2. there goes my media monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    damn

  3. wait by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wait I thought the government was bad? Especially the republicans, Lott, that is.... someone fill me in.

    1. Re:wait by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, their primary concern (the most discussed issue on the senate floor) was the effect this would have on local political coverage.

      Right now, your local NBC affiliate can decide that they're not going to run some reality-TV show tonight, instead they're going to run local political debates. If NBC owned every local station, the local decision making would be removed, and you'd decrease the amount of airtime that each congressperson received for campaigning.

      Congress has always been unnerved about the implications of this latest FCC change, but not for the same reasons you and I were. If the FCC comes back with a way for consolidation to occur while preserving the current type/amount of political coverage, I'm sure it would go through without any fight at all.

      The public backlash just lets those two pricks try to look like heros.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  4. Mixed feelings. by Sheetrock · · Score: 4, Insightful
    On the one hand, I appreciate diversity in television, and would hate to see it disappear. So the idea that they're taking strides towards that is encouraging.

    On the other hand, I believe such diversity will only be strengthened by allowing the people with the most resources free rein to develop channels/media as they see fit. You get duplication of effort now (CNN, FOX, MSNBC), where later we could perhaps have two or three media giants offering a broader spectrum (CNN Politics, CNN Music, CNN Sports).

    So in a way I wonder if we should be upset about this.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:Mixed feelings. by mystik · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is --- if one organization owns all channels tv, radio or otherwise, they are tempted to weave their biases into every program they produce.

      By requiring a duplication of effort, it assures the public that there will be differing viewpoints presented to them, so they can hopefully do their own thinking. It is true that it makes the market less efficent, but I believe that this is a neccesary sacrifice.

      --
      Why aren't you encrypting your e-mail?
    2. Re:Mixed feelings. by kfg · · Score: 4, Informative

      You aren't old enough to remember when we had three big TV networks who controled everything, are you?

      I live three blocks from the very first commercial TV studio in history ( WRGB, GE Broadcasting Company, now used as a science lab by the Schenectady County Community College ), my father worked for them in sales and managment. I got to see a bit of how things worked from the inside.

      We do not want to return to that. Trust me on this one.

      This afternoon I've been watching shows about Velociraptors in China, Easter Island, Anime, The Hauorani ( with nudity, as per National Geographic Magazine) and several different and distinct points of view on the same news story, from different nations.

      In the old days I would have had my choice between three essentially identical "day time dramas" and three essentially identical American news shows broadcasting at noon and six only.

      You can take that and shove it. I like my diversity and "duplication of effort," thank you very much.

      KFG

  5. Why does the FCC have so much power? by Malor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm confused about why it takes such a major act of governmental will to override the FCC. They aren't elected, and should be subservient to Congress. Congress is the only body that can make law; why is the FCC being granted that power so strongly?

    In essence, the FCC, part of the executive branch, is being given equal status to Congress. To override the FCC, Congress has to pass a new law (which the President has threatened to veto). Congress would then have to override that veto.... requiring a supermajority to regain *their own lawmaking power*.

    Something is REALLY messed up here.

    1. Re:Why does the FCC have so much power? by gmhowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In essence, the FCC, part of the executive branch, is being given equal status to Congress. To override the FCC, Congress has to pass a new law (which the President has threatened to veto). Congress would then have to override that veto.... requiring a supermajority to regain *their own lawmaking power*.


      Which is as it should be. The FCC is an agent of the President. It is the executive branch in this particular domain. The congress wants to override the executive branch. The president doesn't want this. Therefor, it takes a supermajority to override the president. Pretty much like every other situation where the congress wants to override the executive.

      Pretty much since 1783, the executive and legislative branches have been co-equal. Huh, imagine that.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    2. Re:Why does the FCC have so much power? by mph · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Which is as it should be. The FCC is an agent of the President. It is the executive branch in this particular domain.
      You miss the point. Despite being a part of the Executive Branch, the FCC is essentially serving a legislative function (deciding what the media companies may or may not do, rather than simply enforcing laws passed by Congress). Thus, you're weakening separation of powers, by transfering certain legislative authority to the executive.
    3. Re:Why does the FCC have so much power? by Glassbear · · Score: 5, Informative

      The FCC has lawmaking power because Congress gave it to them. Legislative delegations of rulemaking authority to federal administrative agencies happen all the time; it's the same reason why the FTC is empowered create a do-not-call list and require telemarketers to pay a fine if they don't abide by it. In each case, the agency is exercising authority delegated to it by the legislature. Nothing new there.

      The more interesting issue, IMHO, is why it's so hard for Congress to overturn an agency rule with which it disagrees. It used to be that you didn't have to pass a law to overturn an agency regulation; you could just have one house of Congress issue a so-called "legislative veto." If that was still the law, then today's Senate vote would have been enough to overturn the FCC. However, the Supreme Court has said you can't have a one-house legislative veto. So if the FCC makes a rule with which Congress disagrees, Congress has to pass a new law overturning the rule. Cumbersome, but that's how the Court has said you have to do it.

      --
      [insert randomly selected declaration of absolutist meta-moderation philosophy here]
  6. Trent Lott (R-MS)!!! by Grimlock88 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Trent Lott (R-MS)." I dont know if this means that he is a member of Republicans for MicroSoft or if you mean that he is currently being posessed by Richard Stallman

  7. So what power does this leave the FCC with? by Osrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Doesn't this mean that they're effectively impotent from this point forward, or am I misreading it? I'm English... if parliament vetoed something like this it would spell the end of the agency.

  8. Choice by mopslik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The new FCC rules were championed by FCC Chairman Michael K. Powell, who argued that consolidation was less a threat now than when the rules were enacted because consumers have many more choices for their news and entertainment.

    Sure, there's ClearChannel-Affiliate-1, ClearChannel-Affiliate-2, ClearChannel-Affiliate-3... Really, is there that much more choice out there? Internet broadcasting, maybe, but the folks who run their own stations are still being harassed by the tax-hungry powers-that-be.

  9. Woot! by thentil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's great to see an actual online petition have *some part* in changing things - with all the online petitions that are passed around, congrats to moveon.org for actually making it effective! Score 1 for democracy (for the moment, at least...)!

  10. Don't Worry (Be Happy) by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Well, I don't think Bush will veto it. If he has said he would veto this measure (I think I've heard that too, but anyways) I think it's more of a "I'll probably do it because of some little reason, but my mind isn't made up that's just how I'm leaning" kind of thing. Even if it's not, a presidential veto can be overturned. If enough people complained to get the house and senate to go and try to reverse it, they can get a veto over turned. That said, since so many people don't like this legislation, it wouldn't be smart to try to go against it (by vetoing) from a purely political standpoint, especially with an election comming up (although thankfully Bush doesn't just do whatever the polls say, he thinks for himself).

    I don't really think we have alot to be worried about. This will get overturned and all semi-right with the world (in regards to FCC policy) will be returned.

    PS: For the record, I support Bush. Full disclosure or whatever.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  11. Re:That photo... (OT) by nearl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think you missed the point. They do dress like the people the represent. They just don't represent the people you think.

  12. Yes, he is. by burgburgburg · · Score: 5, Funny
    Now step away from the computer and stand over there in the corner. The Patriot Act relocation experts will be by any minute now to take you to Guantanamo Bay, you enemy combatant you.

    Remember kids: If you voice or even think an opinion contrary to your selected President, then the terrorists win.

    1. Re:Yes, he is. by micromoog · · Score: 4, Informative
      Remember kids: If you voice or even think an opinion contrary to your selected President, then the terrorists win.

      The really sad part is, that's almost a direct quote from Rummy.

  13. Re:And just think... by realdpk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're right! I remember when those FCC rules were on the ballot a few years back and I was thinking to myself, "man, I really should pick yes or no here, but .. I don't know. I'll leave it blank." Damn!

  14. This decision does promote diversity... by M-2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...the original decision would have allowed the equivalent of a Clear Channel situation nationwide for television and newspapers, as well as outright crosspollination between the two. Which could mean you'd get the Fox News Washington Post and the CNNew York Times, and lead to an even greater polarization in news reporting between the moderates and the right. (There's no real 'liberal press' anymore.)

    There's no real impetus to create that broad spectrum of events - the general intent seems to be to create a single nationally-acceptable product and show it everywhere, in order to sell more ad time and make money.

    The only place we're really getting any 'diversity' is in the pay channels, which aren't dependent on commercials and therefore can take chances. So if they want to make something different like 'Queer as Folk', or 'The Sopranos', or 'Dead Like Me', they can, and if people watch it, it was a good experiment.

    The more diversity in channels, the better it is. If you have three news channels like CNN, Fox and MSNBC, you have three different points of view, and therefore possibly a better chance of getting an idea about what's REALLY going on.

  15. ob simpsons by justforaday · · Score: 5, Funny

    why does this remind me of that episode where kent brockman is reading the news for CNNBCBS (a division of ABC)?

    --
    I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  16. The major Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    One problem is, if the media is owned by very few, then the political perspective becomes very limited, and if the media giants are slanted towards a particular bias, or just go through the good old "if you don't mention it, it doesn't exist" routine at the behest of the corporations/government, what you get is a very uninformed populace. Case in point: 70% of Americans believe Saddam Hussein or Iraq was responsible for 9/11. There is absolutely NO evidence for this, yet 70% believe it. I'm not getting into that. Luckily, we still have the internet.

    Really, the worst problem with media consolidation is the total loss of a sense of a local community, especially on the radio. I feel the major problem isn't TV, it is radio being taken over by ClearChannel, where people have to play their political games to get on the radio.

    Just my .02

  17. An unexpected shock by RareHeintz · · Score: 4, Funny
    Egads... I agree with Trent Lott on something.

    I have to go shower now.

  18. Online Petitions vs. Reality by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Internet has really made petitions more accessable. Look at that picture!

    Like everything else in politics, the picture is not all it seems.

    Those boxes of printout are a prop. They're no more meaningful than the football-sized American flag flying over the local car dealership, or George W. landing on an aircraft carrier to announce the "end of major hostilities".

    From everything I've heard, faxes are effective, as are phone calls. Both are most effective when they 1) happen to match the results of the latest polls and 2) are sent by large campaign donors. Online petitions are pretty much worth no more than the paper they're not printed on.

    Don't forget -- the honorable representatives of the people are ready, willing and able to ignore those boxes of "340,000 Signatures (And Growing)" if the opinion they represent will not get them re-elected.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  19. Universally Opposed by JayBlalock · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Don't forget, when the FCC opened this up for comment, they got thousands of e-mails against and less than a dozen for. And this is the issue that got the ACLU and the NRA to link arms in saying "this is a bad idea." The feelings of the public AND all the interest groups, regardless of overall political affiliation, is that this would be a spectacularly bone-headed move. I mean, this wasn't just politics making for strange bedfellows, this was an all-out bipartisan orgy. NO ONE besides the media owners is in favor of it.

    So Bush vowing to veto basically means he's disdainfully ignoring the will of the population he was supposedly elected to represent.

    And we ARE still in a *representative* Republic? Right? ... right? Bueller?

    --
    Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
  20. Re:Good news by untaken_name · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is great news. I was dreading Fox News spewing their bile everywhere. If Rupert Murdoch is legally allowed to take over all the media, he WILL. It would have been an Orwellian disaster (it's close to it already) if this wasn't voted down.

    You people are funny. Pols are tired of getting slammed in the media, so they work to more heavily regulate the media. Wow, what a victory for free speech. You idiots. The companies that prosper in the media do so because they can sell ad time (or monthly charges for no-commercial cable channels like HBO and Showtime) and because ...wait for it... people tune into them. Now, I don't like pop drivel like Britney Aguilera or the crappy 'reality' shows, but (and I know this concept will be completely ignored here, but I've to try) my opinions should not be made into law, and neither should yours. If people didn't want to watch Fox, it wouldn't exist right now. Rupert has so much money because he gives people what they want....and just because you or I don't like it, more heavily regulating the media isn't good for anyone. Just because you don't like something does not mean it should be illegal, or no one would be legally allowed to eat cranberries, because I'm allergic to them. Think of how you'd feel if some pop-infected teeny bopper got a law passed that made all non-pop music subject to stringent regulation. That wouldn't be very fun for you, would it? Of course not. What these senators are doing is wrong, what the FCC does in regulating communication is wrong, it's all unconstitutional anyways. Free speech was intended to be just that, excepting cases of national interest or public safety. I think it's quite a stretch to equate 'equal time' (shea, right) with national interest or public safety. Let the clearchannels of the world push pop pap onto the masses until they can't take it anymore, and then their dominance will be ended and soon forgotten. Adding (or re-adding) regulation doesn't further our cause of liberty, it flies in its face.
    Now, I know a bunch of you out there are literally afraid that one company will come to own every single tv and radio station as well as every single newspaper. However, there are enough rich liberals out there, if they wanted to, they'd be free to start their own network. If their network wasn't financially viable, it would fold. That's how things are supposed to work in this country. Sometimes people like things you don't like. Sometimes people say things you don't agree with. The beauty of this country is supposed to be that we're all free to like what we want and say what we want without worrying how others feel about it. Oh well, this nation was at one time a shining example of what to do. Now it's more a comedy of errors, and it won't be long before we slip into tragedy.

  21. Senate Voting Record by tashanna · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's the Senate Voting Record so you can appropriately attack your local representatives if you disagree with their actions.

    But this is /.. We don't talk to our reps, we just bitch about them.

  22. Re:This is bad folks. by kfg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh, don't worry, it's not like one powerful media mogul could manipulate the populace and government into a war or anything.

    I'm sure those nasty Cubans really blew up our battleship. I read it in the paper.

    KFG

  23. It Ain't Over by Percy_Blakeney · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Even if this bill gets though the House, the Senate, and even the President, it won't matter. Read that again, folks, because it is true: this bill doesn't matter.

    The rules have already been stayed by a judge, so there isn't a possibility of sudden waves of consolidation yet. Whatever ruling is set down in the current case in Philidelphia will be appealed to the Supreme Court. This thing is going to be dragged through the courts all the way to the top. That is where the buck will stop.

    So what you've got to ask yourself is, "Do I feel lucky?" Do you think the Supreme Court will rule for or against the media consolidation rules? Before you answer, please review the history of media deregulation. In particular, read up on the cable-broadcast cross-ownership ruling that came out of the D.C. court which prompted this whole fiasco (Fox v. FCC, if I remember correctly.)

    I'll tell you this: there is a significant probability that these new ownership rules will be upheld, not rejected, especially given the conservative leanings of the high court.

    Just some food for thought.