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IT Training in the Military?
firehzd1 asks: "Yesterday's article about the new Czar of Security for the Department of Homeland Security raises a very important question, especially lately. What type of opportunities are there for IT work in the military/government. It seems every article I read is bashing the govt/military for terrible IT decisions/systems but I never hear the other side of the story. How bout we hear from those in the field that can give us a idea of what it is like behind the other side of the heavily armed gate?"
Hell I don't know a thing about the actual state of IT in the DoD, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express lastnight.
From what I've read about system purchasing for the combat arms and aviation the following seems to be important to the DoD when it comes to computing technology.
1. Robustness is important
2. There is growing motivation to buy common systems for all the branches (including Coast Guard) rather than have many specialized systems.
3. Anything you sell the DoD today you have to support for at least 15 years, that includes CPUs like the PowerPC and IA. The new JSF, F-22 and Super Hornet are using Cat-5 and PowerPC chips (in the 132-400 MHz range IIRC) to power the flight computers and to connect systems and buses.
I think the move towards Microsoft isn't so much of a whoring out to MS, as it's a decision based on the fact that MS will be there in 15 years.
If I were an MBA, I'd go home and want to forget about work. I'd dread going in the morning. I'd have gobs of money to spend on distracting myself from my horrible job with all sorts of expensive toys and drug addictions, but that's not exactly what I'd consider ideal.
Hopefully, I'll be fortunate enough to never have a job I want to retire from. Not because I can't, but because its far more fun that sitting around playing golf or motoring around in a yacht and eating dinner at 4:30 in the afternoon.
I was an electronics tech for the Navy. Did maintenance on comm gear and other electronic equipment. Went through a variety of schools. I feel the education is very good and the hands on experience is great. I worked with a variety of test equipment, receivers, transmitters, communication gear, etc.
When I was in, the most technologically advanced jobs were CTM (Crypto Tech Maintenance), ET (Electronics Tech), DS (Data Systems), among others (more specialized).
One individual I met while in was a Senior Chief ET at Treasure Island. As far as I know, he was one of the people to first develop laser listening devices for civilian purchase, or at least one of the first that I've heard of. I didn't see a working model, but he explained what it was and how it worked to me.
At yet another installation, I met a group of Navy Petty Officers and Air Force Sgt's that were developing a means to render video to CD, at the time, it wasn't common place (I hadn't even heard of the technology at the time) to find video on CD's.
There's many "cutting edge" tech gadgets being used in the .mil, of course these are the ones you never hear about until they're released to civilian use.
It's like the old story about the guy that invented the first "radar gun" for highway patrolmen, he also invented the first "radar detector" for civilians. :-)
Jerry Fletcher,
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Join the Navy Reserves. Being in the Navy Reserves I can tell you that there are lots of training opportunities available; even more for active duty. The Navy has a rate (their word for primary job) called the Information Technology Specialist (those familar with Navy jobs: this rate is the afterproduct of joining the Radioman and Data Processesing rates). Training for this job includes all the coursework required for an A+, Windows 2000 Pro MCP, and a Cisco CCNA combined into a 13 week (8 hour a day) course located near Chicago, IL. It is classroom instruction and lab work. All the labs are new equipment (P4 or better computers and a new full lab of Cisco routers and switches). Best of all, after your training you are required to have a Top Secret clearance with a SSBI (special background investigation) which is good for 5 years. If you are really interested in getting a clearance and some great training, check out www.navyjobs.com or see your recruiter.
I enlisted in the Air Force for 4 years. I had a guaranteed job of Computer Operations Technician. People in this career field generally do basic PC repair, networking, help desk, and communications center staffing. Lucky me, I spent most of my time in the comm center "monitoring" computers all hours of the night. It was basically 2.5 years of 12 hour shifts.
I also spent 6 months in computer security. It was interesting, but basically all we did after the schooling was make sure base unclassified systems were "compliant." It was a bogus check and a real waste of time, since we weren't granted access to the systems in question. We basically had to take the owner's word on whether they installed all the patches, etc.
The nice thing is that I spent the down time learning perl, php, mysql, etc., and now I've got a good web development job. But most people there weren't so motivated (and thus, are still in and making $1500/month gross).
I also spent 4 months in England doing network support. It was the most fun I had during those 6 months.
So in short, the training was bad, the job was bad, and virtually nobody in my squadron knew wtf they were talking about. I guess that's why the squadron was decommissioned a few years ago!
I think they outsourced everything to civilian contractors (except the 24 hour comm center, of course!).
I did 4 years (95-99) in the USMC in an Information Systems Management Office (ISMO) before they started consolidating all the Communication Occupations with the Computer Operators.
Back then the ISMO was a new animal and they pulled officers from all the other fields to staff the place. They opened up the computer field and sorted out the recruits based on good math skills, and logic to fill those positions. The peons really knew what they were doing. We were technically proficient, even though the tech was obsolete. Back then there was no budget for this stuff and the brass though we should be fine with the desktops they bought 5 years ago.
What really drove military IT into the ground was that you were paying a low ranking private first class about $800 a month to do what equally skills civilians where doing in the real world for $50-75k.
Everyone I knew that had any competence would leave the service after their first 4 years, grabbing jobs with major Telcos, Fortune 500's. These corporations didn't even try to hide it. They would spam our office, send headhunters on base, and negotiate salaries with you in front of your staff officers.
The ones that couldn't get the civilian jobs, loved the corps like it was an Elvis fan club, or were too dumb to make it in the real world. They would re-enlist and eventually become your superiors. Still making dumb mistakes and still having a poor grasp of technology. And it killed all of us to know what had to be done, knew what was technically feasible and what wasn't, and you couldn't make any kind of statement or suggestion without someone saying it was insubordination!!!
I don't know how it is now, but my guess is that they are doing a little better. Sure the budgets are still getting cut, and you can't speak unless spoke to, but the brass is more tech savy now, and with the economy in the toilet, just have a job is a luxury. Having one that can't fire you or lay you off is where its at. Hell, I'm probably making as much as they are now with the paycuts I took.
Since you brought it up, I entered the Army Reserves with the MOS 74B (Information Systems Operator/Analyst). I wanted the job to help my resume while I get my B.S. in Computer Science. I'm the kind of person that I had never imagined myself in any form of the military. I went to basic training back in January 03, then went to AIT at Ft. Gordon in March up until July. Unfortunately, the 74B training in AIT was sadly lacking.
I'm sure anyone else here on slashdot would have agreed with me. In the exciting 74B school you will learn things such as installing Windows 2000 Professional and Server, adding users to the active directory, changing the background, etc., which lasts 2 weeks. You will repeat the same online quizzes over and over for two weeks while you cover A+ and N+. You will spend a week on the Unix command line, and a week on Solaris adding users and setting the time. You will learn about subnetting, configuring low-end Cisco switches and routers, and building a LAN. Oh, and then you'll learn Access 97.
The course was entirely geared for people with little or no computer experience. Some of the other trainees with me had CCNA's and MCSE's, yet no one was allowed to test out of any of the courses. Of course, the Army has needs for more than just installing windows and typing a few Unix commands, so we were always told that the "real learning" would occur during active duty, after AIT. I can't say what opportunities there are after AIT since I'm in the Reserves and choose to work in the civilian sector.
If you choose to go into this field, be aware that during the 4 months of AIT as a 74B (which I believe they are going to lengthen to 5 or 6 months) you will have little rights. If you're 17 or 35, you will lose a lot of things that you take for granted during your normal life. Despite being in the IT field, don't expect to have much access to Internet, or a computer for that matter. TV doesn't really exist, cars don't exist, cell phones exist 2 days a week (guess which ones).
Good luck to you if any of you choose this field in the Army. I was begging to go back to college by the time I got done with this course.
The mindset you describe is endemic to the other services. Marines hate doing shit just for the sake of doing shit. We're very much into "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The reason stems both from the culture of the Corps and the fact that we don't have an assload of money to toss around like the other services *cough*Air Force*cough*.
As Fr0mZer0 pointed out, our biggest problem is high turnover in critical MOS's - and computer-related fields are some of the worst.
Another problem we face is worthless systems or infrastructures pushed down on us from the Department of the Navy because the Navy wants some new whiz-bang, e.g. NMCI (don't get me started on that piece of monkey-shit).
I don't think asking people to do something outside of their degrees is a problem for two reasons. First, spreading your wings is what being an officer is all about. Second, you're there to lead - not be the technical expert. If you need technical expertise, that's what your senior enlisted are for and anything beyond them can be contracted out.
I don't know what the ratio of combat support vs combart arms forces are, but rest assured that they are much lower in the Corps, just as the officer vs enlisted ratio is. Besides, in the Marines, we're all riflemen anyways.
Here's the straight scoop from the USMC:
/26 net. Officers get an even more watered down course because they are also trying to soak in LF/HF/VHF/SAT radio principles and other management related skills. No background is considered whatsoever other than the math score on the ASVAB. You will often find officers with history degrees in charge of IT budgets.
Enlisted and Officers alike receive bare minimum training. The junior enlisted are divided into two pipelines, but mostly came from the old consolidated MOS of 4066 - Small Systems Computer Specialist (Name varies depending on who you talk to). Their course is about 2 months of learning how to install windows and other basic software, run basic network management tools, and generic introductions to major end uses of computers i.e. web, database, exchange, etc. They also receive a very quick course on the basics of networking with switches and routers, although most PFCs give you a blank stare if you ask for the Broadcast, Gateway, and IP range of a
The junior Marines get out into the Operating Forces and are promptly bombarded with distractions. Mess duty still exists in places, Camp services to keep the base clean, Camp guard, rifle range for two weeks a year, and a whole slew of minor classes, seminars, and stand downs that have no bearing on IT at all. Add in deployment time where they are stuck working a help desk, or worse, an admin related billet. Then add in weekends, holidays, and vacation time. We did the math out here in Japan where most single folks only stay for 1 year and out of 365 days, we only get 142 days of work out of someone. Unless they are spending their free time keeping up with the industry, they are rapidly growing into an NCO who knows just enough to bullshit his way past any problem, but not actually solve it.
Senior enlisted are even worse. The junior enlisted who are legitimate geeks almost always spend their 4 years focussing on their own education, often during work hours playing with production servers. After they have pissed everyone off by bringing the exchange server down once every other month, they have learned enough to get certified and get out for a "real job". This produces holes in the ranks which are often filled by senior enlisted from other job fields who have to find an open MOS, or get out. My last two comm chiefs were both infantry up to the rank of Sergeant. Of course a few good geeks who love being Marines stay around and generally become the Miracle workers of their commands, but for the most part, the quality of service garnered is grossly lacking. Hopefully, my description of the system is evidence that it is not the people's fault.
NMCI brings a small ray of hope in just getting a level of corporate knowledge. I don't know how many times I've called the server farm to hear, "Cpl Smith is the database guy, but He's on deployment until next month."
Here is an example of how the general level of inexperience hurts. The Blaster Virus attacks via DCOM RPC calls on port 135. The Base networking solution was to simply scan all computers for activity on that port and shut down any subnets that had activity. HELLO!!, port 135 is one of the key ports that NETBIOS communicates over which is a legitimate service. We've spent the past 3 days responding to reports that computer X has the virus only to find the machine clean. I haven't even begun to add up the lost man-hours as a result of NETWORK managers not understanding BASIC NETWORK protocols.
Don't even get me started on the complete lack of UNIX knowledge and support.
I could also rant on the officer side, but it boils down to the same thing....too many distractions to keep up with modern IT and not enough education/background to rapidly grasp the information. To a certain extent, the Marine Corps has hired civillians to manage the Enterprise and we do have one of the most stable and secure Nets in the DOD, but the system could be so much better if IT staffing was completely re-engineered.
The flip side of course, is that Network manager is capable of taking the network into a forward environment and competently defend it as a riflemen. The last time I saw members of the AF and Navy with guns, it scared me.
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
Ditto parent. I'm an IT in the Reserves, and love it. I'm assigned to a Coastal Warfare unit, so when I do my monthly drills we're usually out in the field, working on satellite comms, secure high frequency datalinks spanning hundreds of square kilometers, and eating nothing but MREs. Either that, or we're on the rifle range or working out in the gym. None of which I get to do in my civilian job.
And forget seeing your recruiter. If you're in the LA area, see me first (org.waddingham@cory). I'll make sure you get what you want, not what the recruiter has on his quota list. Remember the one thing the US military and Al Queda have in common: our recruiters lied to us, too.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
I joined the Army in 1988. At that time, I had already worked 2 years in IT for a consultant building PCs and servers and installing LANs. I had also taught myself Turbo Pascal and worked with 6 other people to write a BBS for the PC. So I joined the Army thinking I would get some great communications training working with satelites and computers.
Well, here is what happened. I left on Feb 1st. Basic Training was, well, physically hard but I made it through. Next, I go to AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Fort Gordon, Ga. By week 3 of training, they had me take a test and quickly bumped me up to the last 4 weeks of training because I was correcting some of the instructors (and turned out to be right).
Having gotten done with AIT in 7 weeks instead of 6 months, I got to go to Airborne School and earn my jumpwings. So, there it was, Labor Day and I was showing up at Fort Bragg, NC assigned to the 82nd Airborne. They found out what I could do with computers and immediately sent me to headquarters. I ended up a database programmer for a year. I sat at a desk writing code for $15k a year while I had to work with (and often provide instruction to) government employees earning three or even five times as much.
Finally, in 1990, I got sent down to the 313th MI Bn and got to actually do stuff in the field that involved computers, radios, etc. with the intelligence guys and gals. Desert Storm was a hoot and I felt like I made a difference.
But when it came time to re-enlist, I realized that I had learned NOTHING in the Army that I had not: (1) brought in with me and (2) improved on my own by self-learning.
I left the military, got a civilian job and was soon making 4 times as much money and I never had to salute anyone. =)
If you know absolutely nothing about IT, you will learn something in the Army. You will also leave the military with some experience on your resume and possibly a security clearance (very valuable right now).
But since you are already reading Slashdot, there is probably nothing in terms of IT skills or money to be gained in the military (though I enjoy knowing that I can kill out to 200+ meters with almost any decent rifle with a good caliber).
That having been said, I still am proud that I helped pay for the price of Freedom in America (even if John Ashcroft is taking it away) and that I served something bigger than myself in my formative years. So while I learned very little in terms of IT, the experience I gained in life has been priceless.