Slashdot Mirror
Are You On Time To Work?
gravitie asks: "I'm a developer in my local area. I'm on what is supposed to be 'flex time', so I can work the hours that my boss and I see fit for me to fullfil the number of hours I'm required to get a week. Besides this I must clock in at 7:30 AM every day I am at work. If I clock in at 7:31 I am late, no questions asked. If I am late 3 times in one quarter I get a verbal warning. Next time I get a written warning, then it just goes down hill from there (docked pay, etc..). Is this standard in todays business world? Should 1 minute late really be considered 'late'?"
If you have flex hours, why do you have to clock in at 7:30 AM?
I have true flexitime, and no-one bats an eyelid if I turn up at 10am, or leave at 3:30pm. It says that we operate a flexitime policy in my contract, so that's fine.
Your contract tells you your conditions of work. If you don't like having to be there at 7:30, read your contract. If they're the rules, and you still don't like it, you're free to get another job. Obviously, most people don't work in places where being a minute late a half dozen times can get them sacked, but perhaps you do. If it troubles you, stop whinging and do something about it.
How does treating creative workers like assembly line factory workers improve the company's bottom line?
How does having your biggest asset -- your employees -- breaking out in a sweat for being a minute late (and probably spending half the day worrying how many more late days they have in their "quota" before being punished), make the company more competitive?
How does explaining that your company has more petty rules than the local McDonald's franchise attract the best and brightest employees?
Don't get me wrong: some coordination is necessary, so that employees can confer with their fellow employees. But a goodly number of people aren't at their best at 7:30 (I sure as hell am not), and won't do their best work if some Pointy Haired Boss greets them each morning with a stop-watch in hand. This creates resentment, not loyalty.
Times are bad in IT right now. If the past is any guide, at some point in the not too distant future, times will be good again, and employees will be more scarce. And employees (and potential employees) will remember how the company treated people in these lean times.
I expect the poster's company will have a terrible time attracting talent at that point -- if they haven't already gone under by then, because only the most desperate and talentless of their employees won't have found jobs at a place that doesn't treat knowledge workers like unskilled factory workers.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
One employer I worked for decided that times were tough and they would require everyone to work an extra 15 minutes a day. Everyone ended up working less. The reason was that most used to work at least an half an hour extra each day, if not more. When the edict came down (roughly phrased as "accept this or your employment is terminated in two weeks as per your contract"), everyone started working exactly the required hours, and not a second more.
I guess we had issues being treated like that, and all the managers getting Jaguars as company cars.
The respect and latitude my boss has given me has earned him a less than 3 minute pager response time and a "yes" every time there is a weekend problem or a 2 am "Can you go in and fix it?" When he needs a long day, I'm there. My record so far is 25 hours straight, on-site.
The last jobs I have had in the industry have been like this:
We need you to be in between 11 AM and 3 PM so we know we can schedule meetings with you. Please warn us if can see you aren't going to be able to make it one day.
Other than that, no monitoring, no punishment and other bullshit.
I don't want to work for someone who doesn't trust my common sense. I feel the same way about dresscodes.
Give me liberty or give me kill -s 9
This doesnt sound very much like flex-time as I know it. I'm currently on flexible-time my employers requires 7.5hour per day for 5 days a week. I must be in between core hours 9:30 to 4:30, and this is probably one of the least flexible schemes by UK standards since I cannot carry over-worked hours to another day, which is more typical.
Sure, if you're a Nazi or like working at a boot camp. In the real world, the majority of well-run places I've worked at are flexible enough so long as you get your work done and don't take things to extremes like 3-hour lunches... The responsibility is also there that nobody should feel like you're dumping your workload onto your colleagues.
A boss who's into kicking heads will not get as much value from his staff as one who rides with a looser rein.
What are the legalities of treating a salaried employee as an hourly wage earner?
My work schedule depends on whos my boss this week. Ive been at the same company for almost 5 years, with a new boss each year. Working in operations, its always been core hours, because we work maintenance windows, 9-3 is core hours for meetings, etc.. And you worked all the time, so nobody said a word about the night hours for upgrades, etc..
Now the last couple of managers its been 7-5 and 9-6 with maintenance at night. Hours are like the east coast, 9 hours including lunch, we use to be westcoast hours, 8 hours with lunch.. They also shit-canned telecommuting for our groups. They also axed OT, made everyone salary. Increased the work hours to 55+ also. Hired 1 night time guy, but he cant ever do all the work, so someone has to come in and help. Then the oncall pay went away, comp time went away.
Basically, depends on what your manager will fight for your group. I look around at other groups, and see they still have core hours, etc. But ours wont. Each manager can run his department the way he wants, wink wink nod nod.
As an old unix sys-admin, used to be noon to night, get out of my face. Now im in at 7:10 (late on purpose) and skirting a PIP, just for the hell of it. I tell you thou, when its quitting time, im gone. The "You need to stay late to get this project done" times are getting old when your a paid slave. I hear it only takes 9 to bring the telco union in. Humm, they specialize in IT/IS groups now...
YMMV, IMHO, and all that jazz.
If I clock in at 7:31 I am late, no questions asked. If I am late 3 times in one quarter I get a verbal warning.
Well, at least if you're running one minute late you can make the best of it and go out for breakfast, coming in 3 or 4 hours late.
My previous job, I had ultimate flex time.
I was always on call, both with cell and pager, vpn access from home. I strolled into work sometime before noon (and somedays slightly after) but normally worked till 10 or 11 pm, regardless of when I came in. I worked at least a 60 hour work week.
When production ramped up, it went from 60 to 80 hours. Then from 80 to 100 hours. When the project was finished, I went back to my old schedule of comming in at 10, but since little was left to do at the time, I would leave about 5 or 6, cutting my work week down to 35 hours.
Others in the company had a more strict policy. Similar to the one described above. These were artists, some of which didn't function well until 10 am, but were still expected to be in for the 5 minute 9 am meeting. What was once a bunch of artists that did everything it took to get ahead in the work became a group that did just what was needed to get it done. The mandatory 9-6 schedule with the hour lunch at noon and 2 15 minute breaks drove them insane and ultimately turned a group that got things done before time and under budget into a collection of disgruntled people who were running behind and over budget. The sadest thing was that the management did not pick up on it. Sometimes a little bit of freedom is what is needed to get things done right.
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
After all, the only important difference between an adult and a child is that an adult does what he/she is supposed to do (i.e, meets his or her responsibilities), even when they are tired, hung-over, etc., otherwise you are still a little boy or girl, and of no use to most employers.
By that same token, "adults" don't need to arrive at exactly a particular time of day to do thier work in a non-service field, nor do "adults" expect that of thier peers. Calling "neya-neya, you're in trouble" and givng out "warnings" and "discplinary actions" is what you do in school, not in business. It's childish, plain and simple.
I've got a C compiler that doesn't like my syntax. I mean, I know I've read the spec and it lays out the syntax, but I don't really like it. I mean, can't they change the C spec to suit my code?
I know it costs $0.48 to mail something, but I only want to use my $0.47 stamps. Can't something be done? It's only $0.01 difference. Sometimes I'll be willing to pay $0.49 to make up!
Does anyone know how to go 130 kph when the speed limit is 100? I mean, people keep giving me tickets. Can't something be done about this? Really, the rules should be changed.
If your hours are stated in some form of contract, then honour it. If you don't like it, try to work with management. If that doesn't work, you can literally quit your job.
If you don't like getting there early and having nothing to do, bring a book, bring some music, bring an audiobook, etc, etc. The worst that can happen is that on days where there's traffic/construction, you won't be stressed out because you'll be 3 mins late for work. Instead, you'll arrive there 20 mins early instead of 30.
In all honesty, it does look disrespectful to other people when you get there late and most everyone else got there on time (or early). Especially those that travel longer distances to get to work in the first place.
"A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." -- Gandalf
---
Heavily armed, easily bored and off my medication.
I expect the poster's company will have a terrible time attracting talent at that point -- if they haven't already gone under by then, because only the most desperate and talentless of their employees won't have found jobs at a place that doesn't treat knowledge workers like unskilled factory workers.
While in general I agree with everything you've said, I'd caution you to be just a little more temperate in your choice of language. Factory workers must be punctual because the assembly line can't move unless everyone is present at their posts, not because they may or may not lack some particular set of skills or aptitudes that a different worker or type of worker might or might not possess.
Time was that Americans understood they were to treat all their fellow citizens equally. Granted, if you're a typical /.er, your childhood and adolescence were inundated with the propaganda of class warfare and class hatred, and that's about the only kind of political discourse you've ever heard, but it was not always so, and, for what it's worth, there are plenty of us out here in fly-over country who pay reverence to the old ways.
We just picked this up, too. Each "late" is an "occurance," which add up to verbal warnings, written warnings and dismissal at 7 occurances.
I think it's just that companies are trying like mad to shift the base definition of work, given that ecomomic circumstances keep most of us as a captive audience. When the economy picks up and we all start to bail, they can "negotiate" a more relaxed environment again, which won't do more than return to the status quo of a couple of years ago. I agree that it seems short-sighted to treat your employees like children... any of your employees.
That said, I'd also add that my group is extremely lucky that our managers stood up to say "we work on infrastructure, so we can't work 8 to 5 like everyone else." They could have just as easily said "a 40-hour week? my people will be thrilled! no more late nights and long weekends!" Other departments weren't happy with that ("why does I.S. think they're special?"), but they don't have to show on several weekends a year for routine maintenance and system outages.
Amateurs discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics.
Well 2 things said elsewhere
1)It sure doesn't sound like "flex" time, unless 7:30 is the latest start time. Let's say your day is 7:30-4:30 - does he allow you to start at 7:00 and work till 4:00? If not, it's NOT flex time
2)The minute he starts docking you for time, you are no LONGER an "exempt employee", and they MUST, by law, pay OT!! Even if they SAY you are still "exempt" (what most people call salaried), if they dock time in LESS than FULL DAY increments, they don't live up to the Federal Law.
Remember other law rules IF you are non exempt (some may be NY law - check)
1)(Federal) They MUST give you a paid 15 minute break for each 4 hours worked - this is why you get a 30 minute lunch.
2)You can NOT be required to work more than 6 days in a row. After 6 days, you must be given a 24 hour "off period"
3)They must pay you 1.5x Base Salary for all hours over 40 hours/week
I had a boss (MANY years ago) who was doing about what your boss is trying to do - play fast and loose on the OT, but have us on the clock. One day, one of the other employees got in touch with the Dept of Labor (I never did find out WHO, but I think I know). About 3 months later, we all got a nice certified letter, explaining exactly what my boss did wrong, what the rules were, and the best part? A nice check for all our back OT. Being all of 20 at the time, and not earning all that much, that extra few weeks pay was nice (the OT stuff had gone on for a couple of years before the complaint). The most interesting part was they were not allowed to call us "exempt" again for a BUNCH of years, and they had to keep paying OT. We eventually got our flex time, and other perks back, but if we were in for more than 40, we got 1.5x
You could always punch the clock (MAKE sure you are on time), make SURE you work at least some OT every week, (keep your own records), and make a call to the labor dept in a couple of months
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
Are they trying to get rid of you? That's my first guess. The only time I've seen this first hand was when someone was looking for a reason. Are they trying to punish you for working flextime? This may be about something else.
Unless you being one minute late is having a direct and profound impact on coworkers or clients (and that's extrememly rare, military, cults etc.) I'd guess someone is after you.
It's a really bad sign, even if nobody is after you. A rule like that is an indication of a dangerous nitwit manager who will make worse decisions in the future. Those future bad decisions will not be "Free lunch in the breakroom on Tuesdays" but may include memos like "Omission of the cover sheet on TPS reports will result in docked wages (applies to hourly employees only.)" or "Mandatory lunchtime meeting in PHB's office, please bring vaseline."
Management is free to make whatever decisions they like within the law, but that doesn't make all their decisions right, or even sane. If the rest of management doesn't find a problem with this, you're in hell.
Mind you, I like to get to work early, but since my commute could vary from 45 minutes to over 2 hours, depending on the limits of human stupidity, I was occasionally late. Fortunately, my employers were more interested in the performance of duties which were:
In my job description
Actually provided value
If you can't find out what this is really about, and get the one minute rule ameliorated, then mind your P's & Q's while you look for other work.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
Don't be a GUMP. DO NOT WORK FOR FREE. It's a JOB not a HOBBY.
If you kiss enough ass, they'll give you a low-level management position which means signing responsibility with no authority or budget. All you get is the promise of middle management if you can continue to kiss your way up the hierarchy. Now you are responsible for the work that other people do, and there is so much that THEY can't do it all so YOU can't do it by yourself either. If you try to climb the corporate ladder, you will always have someone else's ass in your face: you will always be someone else's bitch. You will be OWNED like the tool that you are.
You will have no control over who you manage, but you will be ENTIRELY reliant on your direct reports. Their failure will be your failure, and you will have no way to influence them except to be an asshole because you will not have discretion over enough company resources to get results the nice way. You must achieve control, or you're going to recieve the sum of your staff's bad reviews. Being the new guy you will prolly get the scrub staff that nobody else wants. You'll have to kiss their asses too sometimes.
As for this:
Are you autistic? Do you understand the words that you are saying? Are you reciting the employee manual verbatim? Do you realize that if anyone hears you say this crap outside the scope of an HR job you will be branded a fool and laughed at behind your back? People will like you at work if they HAVE TO because they get ADDICTED to the services you provide. You are the pusher and your boss is the junkie. Repeat that. Deliver. Repeat...Being CONSCIENTIOUSLY late to work is TIME MANAGEMENT. Actually: you're on time if you accomplish what you promised to the people who are asking for your effort. As an employee, you must DRAW THE LINE to balance the priorities between your personal life and your job. If you fail to do this you are a WAGE SLAVE. You must not allow your job to expect too much for you to keep your personal life on track. YOU must manage the expectations. YOU must set the goals that YOU can deliver.
Familiarize yourself with the FLSA (if you live in the US), and avail yourself of your rights. Know that the overtime exemption for computer workers does not apply to jobs where you have no DISCRETIONARY POWERS. Usually DISCRETIONARY POWERS are interpereted that they necessarily include the discretion to come and go as you deem necessary in order to fulfil your professional responsibilities. If you do not have DISCRETIONARY POWERS to decide how to fulfil those responsibilities, then you are NOT EXEMPT FROM OVERTIME.
Get a Lawyer. Work your 50 hours. Record them carefully in a little book, and get someone on the level to initial the enties. Send your payroll department a notice of the unpayed wages. If you can't get results without involving the lawyer charge them a late fee to cover legal costs incurred in collecting what you were legally owed anyway.
--- Nothing clever here: move along now...