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State Of The Simputer
2br02b writes "Readers might recall the Simputer (Simple, Inexpensive, Multilingual Computer) whose story Slashdot has been following over the past few years, including its release in October 2002 and most recently the Scientific American article in November. Rediff.com has an informative overview on the status of what was introduced as a low-cost computer for the poor to be sold for under Rs 10000 ($200). Of the two companies that have been given licences, one has yet to put the product on the market while the other is only looking at bulk sales at prices from Rs 12000 to Rs 20000 ($400). Only between 1500 and 2000 Simputers are out on the market."
HOw about we concentrate on basic human needs like food, clean, running water and shelter before we go doling out handhelds to people?
I'm not at all against technology education and maximizing its use wherever possible, but there truly are some things that must take priority here.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess 200-400$ aren't that little for a poor Indian. Apart from that fact that I have to wonder whatfor people living in some fuckin slum need a computer!
So now pricing it up there with laptops and high end handhelds will get it selling? Wasn't the whole point of the simputer as computing for the masses and not the uber-rich? (Yes kiddies, you are considered Uber rich to 4/5ths the worlds' population.)
Another great idea tanked by a bunch of PHB's
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
with my Automated Bead Array Computational Unit System. This can be made much more cheaply, the batteries alst forever, and it never crashes!
isn't there a better way to provide computing technology to the third-world masses? perhaps someone should start a program for donating old, outdated computers for the good of poorer nations. (if there isn't already one)
To be so close to having a computer accessible by all. It is hard to estimate what the implications could have been if everyone, every where had access to a computer. But of course the inventors yet again failed to factor in corporate greed.
If you don't stop reading this right now you owe me $1,000. Send check or money order too...
An idea like this sounds fantastic - but is riddled with potential problems.
If they produce something with low capabilities, but a low, low price, then they will be accused of producing underpowered rubbish.
As soon as you start to increase the potential of the platform, the costs start to rise until you have an elitist product that the intended market cannot afford.
There *may* be a happy medium somewhere, but the edvil is in the details of finding it. In the consumerist marketplace we have in the West, production prices are already pushed as low as possible. Squeezing out extra pennies in production is almost impossible. The potential is there though to reduce prices through the marketing and adminitration side of things (pay no fat-cat salaries to the sales & management departments), but then again the product quickly becomes unfashionable and therefore undesirable.
I would love to see such a product to succeed, but it's a hell of an uphill stuggle!
A little planning goes a long way...
If that's where our tech support and software development jobs are going, then their wages will go up, and an increasing number of them will be able to afford the simputer, right? As for those knee-jerkers who say, "let's provide food, water, etc. first" please remember that this is being marketed and sold by a private company that has no obligation to address those sorts of social problems. If anything, increasing a country's tech literacy helps increase the general prosperity
They fucked up. $400 is way too expensive for a poor indian person to afford.
"Well, it's not a cheap computer.
Its proponents have since discarded the buzzword -- 'cheap computer' -- that brought the Simputer into the limelight.
"We are not making a cheap computer. We are making a sophisticated device that will make computing possible for everyone," declares Professor Manohar."
What a crock of bull. How is computing possible for "everyone" when "most" Indians can't afford to spend $400 on a PDA?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess 200-400$ aren't that little for a poor Indian. Apart from that fact that I have to wonder whatfor people living in some **** slum need a computer!
I'm not sure how it works in India, but it is probably (please correct me if I'm wrong) similar to the Philippines where the average college graduate makes about $300 / month.
If you assume that the average college graduate in the US makes $3k - $4k / month, then a fair comparison would be a $3500 computer in the U.S. to a $300 computer in the Philippines (or perhaps, India). From an expense point of view, it is likely to be affordable (although certainly a luxury).
But to imagine that these people do not wish to communicate, learn and reach out to the world through the Internet is fairly ignorant. In my experience with families from the third world, a computer (and even a broadband connection, which can be had for pennies on our dollars) is more desirable than a telephone or television.
My conclusion? The simputer may not fit the bill, but the need and economics are right on.
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
You could argue that the poor could use these cheap computers to help them get food, water etc.
... computers, they could use them to improve there farming and harvest more food or to make a better profit selling their harvest.
For example: If you give poor farmers in Africa, India,
This is much better than just giving them food. Computers could help solve THE PROBLEM instead of just curing the symptoms.
However, there are many other problems:
- Lot's of poor people can't read/write.
- If they can read/write, can they often can't read/write English
- in some poor countries there is a power shortage
- Who will educate all these people on how to use computers?
1. AA batteries, not AAA or fixed rechargeable Li-ION. AAA have a terribly low capacity (~450mAh compared to up to 1900mAh for AA).
2. Cheap and robust external power supply. Batteries are expensive.
2. B&W screen, for godsake. Color is luxury, make a high-contrast large, protected B&W screen that can show decent amounts of information.
3. Little chiclet keyboard that plugs in to a mini-USB slot. Something like the old Spectrum keyboards, cheap, nasty, unbreakable.
That would make it cheaper and more useful. Imagine a computer you'd happily give to an 10-year old, no matter if it breaks.
Lastly, I'd add bluetooth because it's a tiny extra cost, only a few $, and provides unbreakable networking and connectivity better than any physical connection, and make the whole thing run on a stripped-down embedded Linux.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
Considering the fact that 16% of the planet doesn't even make $400 a year , this is still ridiculously expensive.
I seem to remember, when the Simputer first hit the backpages of IT newspaper supplements, that the point of the simputer was to provide a set of designs that could be produced cheaply, the idea being that this production would then be available to anyone with the right resources/motivation, rather than just those who wanted to sell it for profit to geeky businessmen. When I signed onto the Simputer mailing list, there was a lot of talk about this, and the method in which a charge would only be entailed for mass-producers - everybody else, wanting to produce less than a certain number of units, was free to take the designs (and the software, IIRC) and use them.
Casting an eye over the Simputer site reveals an interesting addition - the SGPL, or Simputer General Public License. There are then TWO separate licenses (the SDML and the, uh, SDML to manufacture it. Alas, I have no time at the moment to work out precisely what the differences are, though judging by the title ("Simputer" versus "Simputerised"), this is something to do with which components you intend to use.
Nevertheless, it would seem that the original intention to roll out a technology for the common good has slipped a little, though the reasons for this I can only speculate on, and would be wrong to do so... Alas, I think that the most practical way to achieve the original goals, to promote the use of communication technologies (as this is the essential bit) in the same way that radio technology spread, is to make it truly owned by nobody, veritably public domain. To achieve it alongside commercial interests means something usually has to give on one side or the other.
On a different note, perhaps the EU could gleam some advice on patents from the SGPL too...
It's strange how SimCity, SimCoaster, SimSafari and the Sims all were priced normally, and yet SimPuter appears to be behind schedule and way overpriced.
Perhaps moving development offshore isn't the cost saver it's been promoted as.
:)
... it was loaded with goodies. Quoting from the article- "Our Simputer comes with a smart card reader. It has a USB master that can host different kind of peripherals. It has an in-built modem, GSM/CDMA data interface, GPS receiver and the equivalent of a 400 MHZ Celeron [comment: its a SA proc]. It is a power packed machine," says Samyeer Metrani, group manager (embedded systems), Encore Technologies. Probably they needed to include the goodies for special purposes, but somehow they got in the "basic" model where many of these weren't even needed. Comeon... even Palm and Zaurus don't have GPS receiver and CDMA+GSM interface, buildin modem and a 400(!) MHz processor. The cost can surely be brought down, but then they would be competing with established players. So they chose the alternative route to play in niche markets with feature packed versions... and its very well known that benefits of economies of scale are usually not available to niche players!
- mritunjai
The Simputer is a neat idea
but who is going to buy them
if you can already get something cheaper/faster
with more storage?
Here is a 1.2 Duron with a 20 gig drive for $200 US.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?produc
Of course if you have no place to plug it in
then you're hosed.
[This is recycled from something I posted about a year ago.]
Alice is a shrewd 17 year old who plans to build on her investment in a Simputer and a cell phone until she achieves world domination. With the optimism of youth, she figures that will happen when she's about 25. After all, she needs two years to pay off the Co-op loan she took to get the things, and then she needs to really learn how read and write, too. That might take a little while. But she's willing to put off starting her family until she's 25. Much as she wants kids, she wants to be rich, first.
One of Alice's clients of the day is Bob, who is a 28 year old who has a full set of socket wrenches, a number of other tools, a backpack, and an excellent memory of the exploded diagrams of the half dozen different types of Briggs & Stratton engines that are in use within walking distance. Today he brings Alice a broken fan belt from Chuck's rototiller. With him helping her figure out the part identification code, Alice is able to find a store that has a replacement in stock, fifteen miles-- a round-trip walk of only a day-- away. That's much better than the fifty mile trip to the city.
Chuck, who tagged along with Bob in a very worried fashion, is delighted at this good news. Three years ago his tiller had also broken down in the middle of planting season, and it had taken a week of sending a runner around to the distant towns to find the needed part. A week without work had thrown off the usual schedule, and while his farmer clients understood these things happen, some of their wives were angry at him because their kids had to be pulled out of school to hoe the fields, and those families had become the butt of village jokes for months. Nobody likes to be called "old fashioned", not that way. Chuck had lost something much more important than just the loss of income in that debacle, and he did not want to repeat it.
Alice, the shrewd businesswoman, suggested that if Bob and Chuck wanted her to, maybe she could try to broker a delivery deal and get the new belt into Bob's hands before noon. At first they thought she was joking: same day delivery, better even than the mythical FedEx! But after a few minutes of enjoyable haggling, the three agreed to a payment. Then Alice chased them out of hearing distance, while she did furtive things with the internet access and the cell phone. No, I won't reveal her trade secrets, so don't ask me. Something about a regional network of teenage girls with Simputers, but you didn't hear that from me.
The upshot was that 10 minutes later Chuck started sloshing across the western marsh to the highway, where he was to flag down a Frito Lay delivery truck heading east. The driver would give him the fan belt, and also a dozen batteries and a bag of potato chips for Alice. Meanwhile, Bob went back to the rototiller and began removing cover plates and things that needed to come off before the new belt could go on.
End of story: Chuck is back in business before the day has even started to get hot. Bob's reputation for fast, friendly, quality field service is even more enhanced. That evening Alice counts the day's take with a laugh, and then gently tells her latest suitor that no, she's not yet ready to marry. There is a world out there and she is going to claim her piece of it. Marriage and children have to wait awhile.
[It seems like this original vision is not going to happen-- reality always gets in the way of guiding visions. Nevertheless, if low cost computers promote coop purchases of supplies or coop selling arrangements, these Simputers would improve the lives of villagers.]
Not long ago, the guys from encore gave a talk at our local lug on the simputer and from what i could gleam, they now seem to be moving towards customizing the simputer for special sectors like Manufacturing cos., etc., instead of relying too much on it's original purpose to fund themselves. You can find slides from the talks here.
>>They can use the computers to learn about ways of improving their farming...
So what's wrong with a photocopied pamphlet or even a book? Hundreds, perhaps thousands of booklets could be printed for the cost of one of these computers.
If the goal is the distribution of information, this is the wrong tool for the job.
>> have to wonder whatfor people living in some ... slum need a computer! ...
>>I'm a programmer now.
Enjoy it while it lasts. I can't help but wonder how long before your company outsources your job to some kid with a Simputer willing to work for 35 cents a day? Ouch!
> I don't think there is much point in this.. a mobile phone could encapsulate most of this functionality for a quater the price. Simon.
That's true for us rich westerners.
Fancy smartphones are sold to us at a loss by the telcos because they assume (and it's a risk) that they'll recoup the cost as we use data services
over a fixed term contract with inclusive rental charges.
Ask Vodafone how much a P800 would cost with no contract and you might find the Simputer starts looking like good value for money.
And let's not assume that its only value is in the hands of random end users - who obviously can't afford it.
Take a nationwide census as an example. Put one of these in the hands of the (thousands of) census takers on the ground and they'll (hopefully) gather more accurate data faster. With this information it's possible to spend development money more wisely on those who are never going to see a computer in their lives.
Another example would be stock control of perishable foodstuffs, each employee in the warehouses would have one, the benefits are obvious.
Yes its "expensive" technology and beyond the reach of most, but that doesn't mean it can't be a worthwhile investment in the right circumstances. It may well be the cheapest (real) solution if the right apps get written.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...
IIRC the whole point of the simputer, was to produce a cheap multi-language system that would work reliably in third world conditions i.e. areas with unreliable or no local power, high levels of dust etc. for sale to poor governments, NGA's etc. for use in educational programs. The ideal setting is one set up in the "mud hut" one room school in a small rural village. The teacher uses it for classes, both for the village children and adults. Yes our obsolete systems could be donated, but if they sit unused because of overheating and dust or a burned out power supply, due to the poor local electrical system etc., then all we have done, is save space in our own landfill.
I have seen all the previous responses - provide them food, not computers.. provide them clothing and health facilities .. not computers.. blah blah blah..
But obviously who ever was posting it didnt have even the vaguest idea about India or for that matter any third world over populated nation.
Firstly, this is not for personal ownership. I dont think that marketing people in India expect to sell $400 product to Bhole Ram (equivalent of Joe Consumer) who earns $500 annually. This product would be for collective use - like those internet cafes- most people in developed countries use internet cafes(if at all) because they cannot lug their pc/laptop around. But its a different story in developing countries - people use them because they cant afford to buy a pc and have regular internet connection. So it makes perfect sense for a village governing body to buy one of these and provide some kind of access scheme to the villagers to use it. Why a simputer? why not a pc? firstly cost.. secondly size... last but not the least usability and maintanance.
Cellphone networks are easier to get access to than regular phone lines in india and it makes perfect sense to make provision for wireless internet access in the simputer.
Now I want to address the "why computers to the hungry?" part. Its about information dissemenation.
1. Natural disasters - floods, cyclones, forest fires.. earth quakes.
2. accidents...
3. pestilences and animal diseases.
4. Information about governance
Time and again the above have proved to be major problems in India and they took large toll because of the lack of information. In a 1977 storm surge 20k people died in coastal Andhra villages and the reason is that they never knew about the impending cyclone.
plant and animal pestilences usually sweep across the nation.. nothing much can be done about it if people are not informed in advance.
proper medical care never reaches accident victims in villages because the nearest phone is 20 miles away and the nearest doctor is 50 miles away.
Redtape is a way of life in India. If you dont know the rules of the red tape, you are so screwed. poor uninformed villagers are the ones who usually fall prey to these practises.
Now - coming to the hungry and starving part of things, people in one part of the country can die of starvation without any help reaching them - only due to the lack of information.
yes - there are millions of people under the poverty line in India. many of them can get only 1 meal a day with difficulty.. the only way to empower these people is by providing them access to information and letting them decide what they want to with their own lives.
now all you booers and nay sayers can take ur crock and shove it... u know where.
they got no food.. why give them clothes? they got no clothes.. why give them houses? they got no houses.. why freedom of speech?... you all are mary antoinettes...
Currently in india, as soon as a community gets electric power, the first thing they buy is a TV.
The tv becomes their gateway to the rest of the world-- a one way feed.
if you really want, you should build a computer that costs 150$ linux machine and uses the tv as a monitor-- i think that would be a more ideal solution. Basically, if walmart can make linux machines and sell them at $200, it shouldn't be that much harder to bring the price down by 50.
in cost in rupees, that would be 7500/- cheaper than the simputer.
I know ya'll like pictures and here are some (before the final outer design):
More recent picture
Picture 1
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Picture 5
Use of Simputer for Spot Billing of Electricity Metering
More Case
Studies
The Peninsula Linux Users Group (PenLUG) will be hosting a talk on the Simputer at their September 25th meeting down near Redwood City, in the SF Bay Area.
The same speaker will be visiting the Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) on October 20th, near Sacramento, Calif.