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Vonage Starts Charging 'Regulatory Recovery Fee'
slavitos writes "Vonage
sent an email announcing that starting with
'your next billing cycle, Vonage will begin to charge a Regulatory Recovery Fee of $1.50 per phone number. This is a fee that Vonage charges its customers to recover required costs of Federal and State Universal Service Funds as well as other related fees and surcharges. State and Federal agencies collect these fees from communications providers to fund public projects such as rural and library communications programs.' That could mean that Vonage is losing at least some ground in its battle against government VOIP regulations."
Vonage is different from IM and voice chat because it interconnects with the PSTN and thus Vonage counts as a phone company.
Wow, that's optimistic. The government regulates the size of toilet tanks. I think they can latch on to this too.
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
the unlimited Long Distance plan dropped today from $40 / month to $35 / month, the local plan dropped a buck from $26 to $25. Now I know why
I haven't gotten any emails yet, but I'm not surprised. I'm still waiting for them to get their act together in terms of getting my existing phone number transferred (The fax I sent them magically appeared when I threatened to end my patronage).
They seem to be so severely understaffed it makes my head spin. I have twice now sat on hold for over a half hour - at which point I am allowed to leave a message instead of speak to a real human being.
They clearly know their limitations, though, when I called to complain about how long it was taking to get my service up and running, they credited me a month before I could even launch into my bitch. All I could say was "habidah, whosiwhah, zibit.. I'm buying you a pizza!"
Finally, if their site stands up to the slashdot effect I'll be shocked to the core, as it's slow to begin with. I wonder if their VOIP has to make heavy use of their servers or if its more direct. If Slashdot can interrupt my phone service, I'll be ticked!
Well no matter what the money tends to go into the same pockets anyway. Would that be a force of nature or something? :)
Which would you prefer: "We're raising our prices, suckers!" or "We're not greedy, but we now have to pay the universal service fee, and we're passing that on you you"?
Unfortunately, the FCC permits telephone companies to charge absolutely anything they want to under the Federal Universal Service Fund category. In the U.S. your telephone company can (and does) charge you more than they have to pay into the FUSF, and they pocket the difference. If you complain to the FCC about being overcharged, the FCC will tell you that they only set "recommended" collection amounts, but that companies are free to charge what they wish, and that if you feel you are being overcharged, you can switch your local telephone company to a local competitor. Of course, you may only have one local provider.
Vonage, like most other companies, has simply realized that they can charge anything they want to and pocket the difference, and that the FCC will let them do it.
>> ...why is it that a company can pass the charges on to the end user...
Because the company can set its own prices. Taxes are a cost of doing business. If they go up, the company needs to recoup that cost one way or the other.
If you don't like it, stop paying for it,
Sheesh.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
In some states, no food is taxed.
In some states, eat-in is taxed but no other food is.
In some states, all food is taxed.
In at least one state, all eat-in food is taxed, as is all take-out restaurant food that has been heated, fried, baked, cooked, or otherwise warmed expressly for the purpose of immediate consumption, but no other food is. So if you buy a meatball sub and a turkey sub at Subway and get them both to go, if you get them on separate checks, one is taxable and the other isn't.
In at least one state, all restaurant and prepared food is taxed, as is any food that is not deemed a *necessity*. It varies depending on whom you ask whether chocolate is in fact a necessity or not.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
- Vonage gets sued to oblivion by phone companies
...
- People start using P2P VoIP phone applications en masse
- Phone companies start sending out subpoenas to ISPs to discover the real name/addresses of these evil phone call thieves.
- Phone companies sue 12 year old girl who was calling his grandfather and ask $15000 per stolen phone call
- Phone companies say VoIP technology is full of kiddie porn
Deja vu anybody ?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
If telephone service used GNU/PhoneService, it would be robust, it would almost never crash, it would be very reliable and fast and you could use it with many different kinds of hardware.
On the other hand, the interface would be terrible, like people would have to remember long cryptic numbers in order to use it.
I don't need a signature.
Maybe because voters have given governments (like Orange County, California) the right to dream up fees on unrelated activities (like speeding) to pay for their own mismanagement and bankruptcies (speeding causes bankruptcy?) or given them the authority to demand that cell-phone companies charge "local infrastructure" fees on their users just because they use a certain area-code and prefix. As an example, Sprint levies a local use fee of about $15 on me payable to the City of Long Beach, California while I live in Washington, DC not using a single atom of Long Beach's infrastructure. This is all the result of voting, be it yours or your rep's, not corporate greed. It should come as no surprise then that companies then charge you for fees resulting from our collective altruism and/or stupidity.
I would actually congratulate Vonage on itemizing it so you can then march into your representative's office and scream at them. If only every silly excise tax were so effectively communicated to consumers, maybe people would be more active in this "democracy."
and lifeline service/universal access, rural telephone services and library connectivity to the 'net couldn't possibly be ways to "improve things using technology?"
not tax the improvements so much that they're not improvements anymore
$1.50/mo scarcely seems so crushing a burden
A lot of companys are doing this nowadays, at&t wireless is now chargeing a 1.50 "regulatory programs fee" to help cover the cost of complying with a lot of new FCC rulings/regulations (one of the largest of these being Line number Portability (LNP)) The nice thing about making it a seperate charge like that is its easy to see on a bill so its easy to pass off PR wise, "Oh its the fcc's fault" And, at least in the case of attws, it has been promised that when the costs have been recouped the fee will be removed, it might seem a bit underhanded, but at least in the wireless industry competition has it to the point that profit margins are so slim, huge projects like that hurt. I wonder if any other companys are doing this?
Jesus saves, everyone else takes full damage from the fireball.
well one thought comes to mind.
Some technology does need to be tazed.
Lets say that your in a city where it is cheap to put in a line. That line gets taxed. That money then goes towards subsidizing more expensive long haul lines or for people out on the farms.. So you can now call some far away family/friend over the line that was subsidized. kinda how roads are built using tax's on gas. The money I imagine would also go towards managing the phone companies.. Since vonage does connect to the ptsn this is a fair tax. It connects to the public phone network. So its all game. So voip isn't the thing gettting taxed its the services that is beign provided. (if it wasn't connected to the ptsn then it wouldn't be the same service)
just a bunch of thoughts
I know it is an unpopular view to maintain, but VonAge IS a phone company, they market themselves as a phone company, they provide the same services as a phone company, so they should pay the same fees and treated like other phone companies.
Just because they are use a different pipe into the home than a traditional telco should not exclude them from complying with the same rules and regulations a telco has to abide by.
If you don't like the rules VonAge has to live with, then attack the regulations themselves that apply to all phone companies.
VonAge is decidedly different than "voice" features in IM programs, or even outbound only low priced LD services. VonAge provides full featured, two way phone service. You get a phone number, people can call you if they are not on the Internet, and you can call people not on the Internet.
They've gotten a free ride long enough.
Other services are quite different. IM programs communicate between computers, or in some cases the computer user contacts a phone # somewhere. Other servicse provide out-bound only network to phone features. And so on. Each of these provides _some_ functionality of phone service, but not the full package. Thus, they should not get hit with telco regs or fees.
It could be argued that out-bound network to phone long distance services could be considered a long distance carrier and should comply with those regulations -- but that would all depend on the details of the service provided. A blanket generalized statement would cause more harm than good.
One thing further, if these services are considered telcos, then they should also be given common carrier status. If not, then they should not be considered a common carrier. If they are not a common carrier, then it opens them up to all kinds of legal nightmares, responsibility for content/control, possible liability, and more. You'd think they'd want to be a common carrier. They should not be allowed to claim "common carrier" and be excluded from phone company regulations.
. 62,400 repetitions make one truth -- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Actually, despite what cynicism might suggest, fees and taxes of this sort are generally required by law to be itemized.
.08 tax," because each of these seperates that tax from the retail price.
If your state has a sales tax, is it not rung up as a seperate item on your reciept?
In my state (NY) it is even illegal to sign items as, say, "$1.08 including tax."
"$1.00+tax" is legal, as is "$1.00+
KFG
Why don't they just raise prices instead of charging a separate fee.
At the same time they also lowered prices for some of their plans by as much as $5/month.
--- Gary McClellan
does Vonage sound like good deal to anyone here? I mean i can get unlimted LD from MCIor from my local bell telephone company on a land line for roughly the same price. If i get the physical line installed i get the extra BW from that line. If I go with Vonage i am paying my net provider(cable. dsl, T1, etc) for the bandwidth.
The only way to bust a doper--is when you yourself become a smoker!
I have to start charging a $1.50 check writing fee to offset my costs for paying my bill.
I am getting really sick of these copanies doing scumbag things like this... their fees that THEY are charged are a part of doing business. Just like the bullcrap "destination fees" when you buy a car. Dont pay them, if the dealer is going to let a $20,000.00 deal fall through over some stupid $150.00 fee they will shut up. just like if you get people to bitch about this lame $1.50 fee they will also stop.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It's sad to see it go this way, but I guess it is fair. Last time I was reading my phone bill there was all sorts of charges such as the "Carrier Universal Service Charge" and the oh so classic "Universal Connectivity Fee" and of course the "Charge for Network Access" which for some reason they just can't call "renting our wire." It really does get confusing, at least Vonage will have a single line/single charge and you actually know what it's going towards.
Telcos are notorious for these charges, although most are legitimate the average joe-schmo wouldn't know what the hell his money was going towards.
An interesting story actually sprung up about these taxes, my buddy was getting a new cell phone and we were discussing the plan that he got and I'll never forget what he said. "Yeah well the plan is $34.99 a month of course they have the fuck you dickhead tax, and the rape you up the ass tax." I think that's how most of the general public feels towards these taxes. Perhaps they could use plain English to better explain these additional charges.
Taxes. Hidden, but still basically taxes. All that's really happening here is that Vonage is passing the bill along to consumers.
That's why my landline phone bill averages out to about $70/mo in the Buffalo, NY region, even though the actual service is about $40. This is without making *any* long-distance calls, using Verizon (local incumbent monopoly, FWIW).
If you think that's bad, you should see what the electric looks like here, esp. after the blackout.
C|N>K
I am a Vonage Customer...
In short the $1.50 tax is added, but the prices of their residential plans have fallen $5 and $1 respectively. So in my case it's a $0.50 hike to keep the government off their back. If I used the full unlimited service my bill would go down.
Also, as a quick review... I love the service, it's saving me $20 each month over conventional phone service. Calls are clear, and I keep in touch with my family much more these days. The only downsides... There are very few downsides including no phone when the power goes out or Comcast has a service outage in Nashville. You have to pay a little attention to bandwidth issues, meaning don't use a P2P app while on the phone or it gets a little shaky. This is insignificant compared to free voice mail, a naturally unlisted number, and portability to anywhere you plug the Cisco box in... I could go on for days... But to clarify I attached the e-mail from today.
Note the full text of the e-mail:
I am pleased to announce changes in our two Residential rate plans, which take effect September 20, 2003.
Our Premium Unlimited Plan, which was $39.99, is now reduced to a monthly rate of $34.99. Our Unlimited Local Plan is reduced from $25.99 to $24.99. Your new lower rates will appear on your next bill automatically. There is nothing required on your part to take advantage of this cost reduction.
The new lower rates will take effect when your next billing cycle begins after September 20th, and will remain at those lower rates in subsequent billing periods. We urge you to consider upgrading any Local Unlimited lines to our popular Premium Unlimited Residential Plan with the new $5.00 discount. At $34.99 it has never been a better value.
In your next billing cycle, Vonage will begin to charge a Regulatory Recovery Fee of $1.50 per phone number. This is a fee that Vonage charges its customers to recover required costs of Federal and State Universal Service Funds as well as other related fees and surcharges. State and Federal agencies collect these fees from communications providers to fund public projects such as rural and library communications programs. Your total Regulatory Recovery Fee will reflect a $1.50 surcharge for every phone number in your account including primary voice lines, second lines, fax lines, Toll Free PlusSM numbers and Virtual Phone NumbersSM.
Discounts for additional lines will still be $5.00 per month. This means that when you add more Premium Unlimited lines to your Vonage account, the rate for these lines will be just $29.99 per month. Discounts for added Unlimited Local lines will be just $19.99 per month.
Our one goal at Vonage is nothing less than your total satisfaction. Over the last several months we've made large strides in developing new calling features for you. We've also dramatically increased our geographic presence throughout the United States. What I find most exciting is that this is just a preview of what's to come.
We are extremely gratified that our customers continue to be our biggest enthusiasts and our best source of new ideas as we continue to innovate and redefine global communications.
On behalf of all of us here at Vonage, thank you for your business.
Sincerely,
Jeffrey Citron
CEO
The sound quality is excellent. No lag or other artifacts. They have two bandwidth settings, 80 and 32K. I use the lower one because my DSL is only 128K on uploads. I would rate the low bandwith codec quality as better then a cell call but not quite as good as a Verizon one. When I lived in Tucson, I had 256K upstream bandwith and used the 80K setting. It was better than a wired phone! It's my understanding that they are soon implimenting a 60K setting that I'll likely change to.
Any more information about this? The Cisco ATA-186/188 is capable of doing G711, G729, and G723.
I'm presuming the "80K setting" is G711 (64Kb codec+16Kb IP/UDP/RTP overhead -- this number adds up). I'm presuming the "32K setting" is G729 (8Kb codec+16Kb IP/UDP/RTP overhead -- this number doesn't quite add up). G723 is 6.3Kb/5.3Kb, and probably is not being used with Vonage.
So, the question is, if they're going to support something in-between, what's it going to be with? I'm guessing it's not going to be using the ATA (at least, not with the current codebase; and I'm not aware of future plans to support other codecs, Cisco really doesn't support much else on their IP Telephony products). Do you know if Vonage is planning to do this on someone else's gear? Whose?
My Verizon Tax Bill before Vonage:
911 funding fee 0.50
Dual party relay 0.11
Interstate access charge 6.50
Federal excise tax 0.85
State telcom sales tax 1.6
Federal Universl Service Fee 0.60
Svc Provider Number Portablility Fee 0.36
Universal Connectivity Charge 2.66
Bill Statement Fee 1.50
Federal Tax 0.80
State and local tax 1.61
Regulatory assessment fee 0.99
TOTAL TAX 18.11
So I figured a guess at the total take from Verizon lines at 18.11 my tax * 12 months * 135,000,000 customers = 29,338,200,000 Rounding it off to the even Billion for 30 Billion dollars a year in Tax.