Protests, Politics And Parties In MMORPGs

The Importance of writes "LawMeme's James Grimmelmann has written an interesting piece on protests, politics and parties in MMORPGs. In particular, he talks about the 'tax revolt' in Second Life."

Comments

Raph Koster

[Mr.123]

Still hard to believe that Raph Koster has come so far since LegendMUD. I started with that mud in 95 and played on and off for 5 years wasting thousands of hours. Although the mud peaked at only about 80 players, it was still very enjoyable. The man use to take part in his own MUD, building a tight and interesting community.

He's definitely a talented designer also knowing the importance of a good mix of playerbase is essential to sustaining a in-game society. I can't vouch for any of the graphical MUDs he's been part of but I will always remember LegendMUD and late late nights doing quests, rescue parties, and infamous clan wars. (Knights and Grendels baby!)

Taxation is theft

[Anonymous Coward]

The article makes a good point about so-called "progressive" taxation.

People who contribute more to society through judicious use of their increased wealth are punished for having that wealth in the first place. As a result, being wealthy is less desirable, and there will be fewer wealthy people able to finance large projects that benefit society as a whole. The result is a mediocre, stagnant society where only the state, rich at the expense of hard workers, can engage in large projects which will be burdened by the inefficient nature of government-run programs.

Therefore, if there is to be taxation at all, it should either be a flat tax, or the wealthy should be taxed even less as they a smaller burden on society than those who don't produce as much wealth, and thus make use of social services paid for by all the taxpayers.

Re:Taxation is theft

[trompete]

The sad part about this is that it isn't a troll!! Republicans really believe in what they say. "Can you believe that damn government wants 50% of my paycheck? How am I going to buy that new Yacht now!?"
1/7 people doesn't have health care; 1/5 doesn't have auto insurance. Look at the big picture.
I can understand this point of view if you are part of that 1% who benefit from regressive taxation, but otherwise, I'd seriously go meet some inner-city working-poor people and tell them rich people deserve tax breaks. See what they say.
I can see why you posted as AC.

Re:Taxation is theft

[Obyron]

The AC is obviously ignoring the fact that when they build those malls and Wal-Marts, they hire people to work in them. Those big bad rich people have just created a nice stack of jobs for the community.

It's easy to look at the statement "Joe Bob owns a mall," and immediately assume he's making money hand over fist. What about utility cost? What about employment costs? What about security costs? Maintenance? And the biggie: Liability insurance.

Now look at how many people Joe Bob has put to work. Those people take Joe Bob's money and feed their families. They buy cars. They get health care. And when people buy things in Joe Bob's mall? That money goes back into the economy and goes to help those that are working to produce those products.

Someone has an extremely sheltered and liberal-influenced view of how the economy works.

Re:Taxation is theft

[shepd]

>Who pays employees? The consumer. Who is the consumer? Employees.

Without going into too much detail, let me sum it up for you:

It's a symbiosis. Without rich people, the poor have no chance. Without poor people, there are no rich people.

Perhaps you think that sucks but that's how it works*.

Personally, I think it's great. It's an encouragement for everyone to be all they can be.

>When is the last time you worked in a factory?

My dad worked in one, unionized of course.

>Very few of those working class people could be considered fat cats.

He has just retired comfortably without any debt a couple of months ago. He came to Canada penniless in 1976. He, and my mom, lived on charity for at least 2 years. I now live with him and my mother (in my case it only makes sense). We live on a 1/2 acre lot in a 3000 sq ft. home in Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario. We've never won the lottery, we'd be lucky to have made more than $10,000 on investments.

You tell me. Not that I'm complaining all that much, of course I'm enjoying the benefits of that, but again, you tell me.

>Funny, I saw a lot of CEO's laying off workers so they could get hefty bonuses

Yes, they did during the dot bomb. Shortly after their companies tanked, which is why it was named the dot bomb (not because of jettisoning employees). Do you disagree with that?

>Do you think people can't work together without wealthy people telling them how to do it?

No. Communism isn't impossible to make work, it is simply unethical.

>Who built the homes? Working class people. Who builds cars? Working class people.

The question is still why? My dad worked in an auto factory. He didn't do it for fun. He wouldn't do it if it didn't pay. So why did he put bumpers on Mercedez, and frames on Jeep Cherokees?

Well, not because cheap people wanted cars, that's for sure!

>That other 80% of people aren't still going to need the essentials of life? Sure.

Again, that's communism. Rarely would you see a factory in a communist country make a luxury vehicle (except for corrupt fatcats). Normally you'd see Ladas. In fact, Ladas were made in a communist country!

So, we can spend our life surfing the internet on a 14.4k dial up connection, or we can let the rich enjoy a 100 mbps circuit, and be happy that a lot of "regulars" are able to afford and enjoy a "luxury" of 3 mbits DSL.

As compared to cars, the rich get driven around in limos. You get to drive a Toyota Corolla with Air Conditioning. Which still beats the HELL out of driving a Lada.

Life isn't about meeting essentials. It's about enjoyment.

* - That's if you want to enjoy non-essential things, like your current internet service!

Re:Credit Required for Reg.

[Anonymous Coward]

Credit card requirement is used by game publishers in these environments largely to prevent muling where people create limitless trial accounts and strip them of resources which are transferred to their main account

not your normal MMO

[Brat Food]

Taxes are levied in Second life because of finite server resources(ALL content is server-side, the client download is a mere 11mb). A server can handle x amount of objects, and tax levels are calculated based on things like total available land, and other factors.

For example, i have an empty "sim" (one game world unit, in an interconnected grid of sims), and i first want to buy some land in that sim. I buy a 32x32m plot of land for x amount of money. Now, you get taxed for that land, since its a limited server resource. Now i want to build say a house. I "rez" in 4 cube primitives, shape them to form walls. Each item costs y money to bring in to the world, then has a tax for stying in the work for an extended period of time, based on a variety of factors. Basically anything that costs server ram and CPU cycles, you get taxed for. You would have to play the game to fully understand the results this actually has, but as the base of it.. is theres a finite amount of resources, and the rules keep them form being exploited.

Second life is a game where the players make their own content. Theres a scripting language and primitives based modeller. You can import textures and sounds, and create what you like. Dont want to create? no problem. Its a game you play as you like. Its a paradigm shift, and worth your time to take a look at if you want a truly new gaming experience.

Re:Credit Required for Reg.

[smeat]

I tried out "A Tale In The Desert" and it has a free 24 hours of playing trial with no credit card required.

I highly recommend the game.

smeat

Every Game Has Them

[Cylix]

I remember back about 6 to 7 months ago a protest by the players occurred in DAoC (Dark Age of Camelot).

The complaints were regarding a particular faction (hibernia to those who know the game). Players encouraged other players in the same faction to join a particular server for a protest regarding the issues.

The problem being, the Hibernia realm was the last developed realm and this does show rather well when compared against others.

Class balance issues, some monster/mobile issues and general complaints were all held. Interestingly enough it did get some attention, but I believe most of the answers weren't exactly concrete.

None the less, a protest is a protest, and it is worth mention.

Re:my favourite online protest....

[eggstasy]

As a member of the group who created the tax protest, I can tell you very well what it was about.
In SL, each region is a server with clearly defined limitations - 10 thousand prims, which stands for primitive shapes (cube, sphere, cylinder...)
Instead of getting a fixed amount of space, like what happens when you purchase some space for a webpage, the developers thought it would be better to create a virtual economy to distribute resources to everyone.
Just to give you an idea, a prim costs 10 Linden dollars and is taxed at $1 per week, more if its far above the ground, if its very large, or if it is a light.
Taxes are meant to prevent rapid resource depletion. Without an economy in place, a malicious user could fill up a server in seconds, and a particularly creative user playing normally could very well fill it up on his own.
As you can see, the limits imposed by the game constraint our imagination a bit, and force us to learn some efficient 3d design techniques, keeping the details in the textures and doing only the basic structure with actual polygons.
This is what everyone's angry about. They came to SL with the expectation that they could build to their heart's content, and started doing so, but quickly hit a wall where their income could not pay for their taxes anymore. So naturally they felt frustrated because they didnt want to delete anything. The tax system has been tweaked a bit and now everything is going fine.
If you guys have any questions about SL or the tax protest I'll do my best to answer them.

Re:Bollocks

[spacecomputer]

>Life's real stories of youngsters abandoned shows something quite different. In the Polish ghettos, Nazi camps, streets of Rio and of >Kinshasa... children form groups and look after each other.

Watch some documentaries of the street kids of Rio and you do see that they band together, but the strong in the group abuse and use the weak (younger) members... Naked cruelty that breaks the heart.

Re:Nationalism in a borderless world

[PhoenixFlare]

You do not work for Nintendo. Please stop trying to pass yourself off as a Nintendo employee, troll.

Everyone else: Read this joker's comment history to see what I mean.