Kazaa Sues Record Labels

dannyp writes "CNN is reporting that Kazaa is suing the record companies, claiming that they used an illegal client to log in to the P2P network - an interesting twist." The lawsuit also claims "...efforts to combat piracy on Kazaa violated terms for using the network."

Comments

Hmmmm..

[El Pollo Loco]

This is probably a futile move. But yet I can't stop grinning thinking about someone standing up to those people for once. DirecTV being sued as well.....I think perhaps people are tired of being pushed around. That and Kazza stands to lose money.

RIAA != Gov

[TwistedSquare]

I know that a lot of the general public confused the RIAA with the Government in recent lawsuits brought about by the RIAA and this is an interesting case where the RIAA are shown the difference... I imagine an investigating Government body could have ignored Kazaa's terms or got a "search warrant" equivalent.

But the RIAA have no such powers... Oh except the ones where they can buy really expensive lawyers and win the case anyway. Yeah, those are handy.

Re:Legality

[satyap]

Heck, no, individuals don't have enough money to have rights.

A Solution from the Dark Side

[Henry V .009]

I have always felt that a P2P network could protect itself by requiring in a license to use said network that no users will use the service to collect IP addresses. In that case they could go after the RIAA for either theft of network services or even DMCA abuse for using an illegal client.

This would not protect network users if law enforcement were to request valid subpoenas for the job, but it would stop non-law enforcement bodies like the RIAA from doing what they are doing now.

This is using our enemies methods against them, which makes it sweet.

Money?

[GuyMannDude]

Does KaZaA really have the financial resources to launch a successful legal attack on the RIAA? I mean, the media conglomerates are rolling in dough. I've never really understood KaZaA's business model and find it hard to believe that they stand a chance. Regardless of merit, the RIAA have got to have some killer lawyers.

Much as I'd like to see KaZaA fight back, I just don't see this being a fair fight. I suspect KaZaA will withdraw their legal challenge pretty soon.

GMD

RIAA didn't expect this?

[NumLk]

The article seems to imply that this came as a complete surprise to the RIAA. Talk about an organization that can dish it out, but not take it. They were (allegedly) using unlicensed software. Oh jeez, I'm shocked!

Then again, its kinda like those "stupid news" stories about the burgler sueing the owners of the house he broke into, because the stairs weren't up to code, causing him to trip and break an arm.

Illegal client?

[Quobobo]

If using Kazaa Lite on their network is illegal, I'm sure anybody using mlDonkey/giFT to connect to Kazaa could be in trouble, hypothetically.

Self Service?

[tarquin_fim_bim]

The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."

I must have missunderstood the purpose of copyright, if it isn't self-serving, what is it for?

Re:Self Service?

[fishbowl]

"I must have missunderstood the purpose of copyright, if it isn't self-serving, what is it for?"

The purpose of copyright is to stimulate creative people to publish works of art in order to ultimately benefit society as those works enter the public domain. The incentive for them to do so is supposed to be provided by offering a period of time where the creator has exclusive rights to his creation. Some people seem to have the idea that the main purpose of copyright is the period of exclusive rights, but the spirit of the concept has historically been more on the lines of creating and preserving a public domain. The monopoly granted to the creator is a compromise made by the people to ensure a steady supply of works to the public domain.

The whole notion of copyright has been completely turned on its head in the last fifty years, and the current generation is the first one to really notice the difference. Unfortunately they do not see the change as being worthy of major action, even though some people talk big.

You already have to go back to the 1920's or so to find any truly public domain works. It hasn't always been this way, and it was never meant to be this way. Some things that I consider classical, are still covered by copyright! Other things that should NOT be covered under copyright, according to either the letter or the spirit of the law, carry copyright notice and under the DMCA might even be encumbered in such a way as to to violate your rights to view a work that is truly within the public domain. I recently watched a Marx Brothers film that has long been free of any copyright... and yet, the media clearly stated that the contents were under copyright. That sort of thing just makes me angry.

If arts and entertainment were as important to us as sports and sex, we'd have abolished the government already for the DMCA.

KazaaLite License Agreement

[kUnGf00m45t3r]

If you actually read the KazaaLite license agreement, it specifically states that using the product is illegal (I would install just so I could get the exact wording but I'm at work and would rather not lose my job). I guess the RIAA neglected to read it before installing... Haha!

Slashdot dualmindedness again

[AEton]

I swear to God it's like 1984-esque Newspeak. Think one thing. OK, now think the other.

Kazaa sues Google because of Kazaa Lite! Kazaa evil!

Kazaa sues recording industry because they improperly accessed the network! Kazaa good!

Somebody please give me a chart or visual reference for when Kazaa is bad and when the RIAA is bad.

(Alternatively, it's fun to see two evil corporations duking it out, because either way a badguy's going to lose. But that's just my inner optimist.)

Re:Slashdot dualmindedness again

[Jherico]

Don't be obtuse. Good and Evil are not absolute attributes. A person or organization can have both qualities depending on what they're trying to do. Hitler creates paintings in Vienna in the 1930s. Good. Hitler tries to exterminate the jews in the 1940s. Evil.

Its very difficult to try to pin down a group and say 'Everything they do or have ever done is evil'. There's always going to be a counter argument because of something they did that was at least benign.

And the comparison you're trying to draw is to doublethink, NOT newspeak. Orwellian doublethink on the other hand is something entirely different. It is the act of holding two mutually exclusive ideas in your head at the same time, or to discard facts if they impede a required belief. Like believing that freedom and slavery are the same thing.

Newspeak is just a kind of communication, like 'Oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc'.

Re:Imagine...

[MatthewB79]

I wasn't accessing AOL network for any reason other than to chat. The RIAA accesses KaZaA with intent to crapflood, spread a virus or 2, and spy on KaZaA users. There is a difference..

unfortunately ... yes.

[telstar]

The Verizon case found that the RIAA has the right to get the identities of users who they allege are violating copyright laws by sharing copyrighted music.

This finding is still being appealed by Verizon, and Congress is discussing whether this should be allowed to continue. Where the RIAA should get in trouble is with the recent subponea issued for the wrong person. They essentially deprived this person of their right to privacy by wrongfully requesting that the person's ISP reveal their identity. This was in clear violation of their rights ... and if the RIAA didn't have more lawyers than quality musicians, the person could do the country a world of good by suing the RIAA.

Re:Pyrrhic Victory

[El]

Problem is, they didn't click on the Kazaa EULA; they used a reverse-engineered version of Kazaa. Nevertheless, it appears the DMCA may apply here. Companies attempting to protect their copyrights should not be allowed to violate the copyrights of others.

Re:Suddenly

[SatanicPuppy]

Heh. I wish I was a lawyer AND an Engineer. You know the first person who's going to be able to both make a rational argument in court AND understand what the hell he's talking about is going to make a mint.

Live by the DMCA...

[Nom du Keyboard]

Live by the DMCA...

...Die by the DMCA.

And it's about time!

Yeah, right...

[strAtEdgE]

I'm rooting for Kazaa just like everyone else on this one, but seriously... this stands about as much chance as the old FTP servers I used to frequent that displayed a banner claiming "If you are a member of a government agency, including law enforcement, you must disconnect now."

Re:You were wrong

[Experiment 626]

Warez sites with such a "license" don't exempt themselves from prosecution. It's just some idiotic ploy someone thought up long ago.

There's a big difference between government authorities prosecuting someone who is breaking the law, and a private organization violating one law to see if someone else is breaking another.

If I flagrantly violate the Windows EULA by decompiling, reverse engineering, benchmarking, and doing who-knows-what else to it, could I then absolve myself of this by telling them, "I just did it to see if you guys were up to anything illegal"?

This case is interesting because it pits one private organizations's pseudo-law-enforcement powers against another's ability to make up whatever terms of service they feel like. Whether the RIAA or EULAs get taken down a notch by this, the public stand to win.

Even if Kazaa loses, this could be good

[lannocc]

If Kazaa loses, wouldn't this set precedent that stupid Software License Agreements are not enforceable?

Great analogy!

[El]

Because in fact using somebody's network without permission is regarded as criminal tresspass! Kazaa should be filing supoena's to the RIAA to get the identities of the people who trespassed on their network (at the behest of the RIAA) so they can file criminal charges against them... and by the way, doesn't hiring somebody to break the law constitute racketeering? Does RICO apply here?

Re:It's about time...

[NanoGator]

" I had almost forgotten that Kazaa (unlike gnutella) is a privately owned network... or protocol... or something. Kudos to Kazaa... now if they only got rid of their spyware..."

Hooray for proprietary proto.... hey... put the pitchforks down.

Re:grant them amnesty

[Soul-Burn666]

They stopped making CDs... they started to make cup holders that break Macs and Car CD Players, etc.

Re:Suddenly

[once1er]

oh my god no! This isn't how the system works. My Political Science teacher used this _exact_ same example. 51% of the population could never enslave the other 49%. First off, on this perticular issue, you'd have to pass a constitutional amendment voiding another one (Thirteenth Amendment - Slavery And Involuntary Servitude), which would require two thirds to pass! Second, we have minority rights. Which are vigorously fought for by (strangely) the majority of the people. And to be the billionth person to bring up the issue, the last US presidential election proved that you can win a majority of the votes and still lose an election. "Checks and Balances." It's two chapters at least in any intro to gov class. When I first read your post I thought for sure you not a US citizen, but then I realized that your complete lack of fundimental understanding of how the United States government works meant that you are a US citizen. My guess is, you're in the midwest somewhere.

Re:Suddenly

[Malcontent]

Tell that to the palestenians.

Re:Suddenly

[nanojath]

When you have millions of otherwise law-abiding citizens engaging in illegal activity something has to give.

In the U.S.A., at least, it hasn't happened with marijuana yet.

The difference between file sharing and home taping is largely one of scale and centralization. Home taping is by nature a small scale, decentralized activity. I borrow an LP from my brother, tape it, that's the end of it. If someone tried to open a "home taping center" where any and all could come browse thousands of record collections and make cassette dupes, leaving behind a paper trail of their activities, you would quickly find out just how "decriminalized" home taping was.