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IETF Draft Sets up Public Namespaces

figlet writes "A new IETF draft is out (URI Scheme for Information Assets with Identifiers in Public Namespaces). It is a very cool idea and basically introduces namespaces through a new URI scheme. These would be used to refer to resources within their own context. NISO will be the registry for public namespaces. Example (from Herbert Van de Sompel): 'For example, assuming that the namespace of Dewey Decimal Classifications (ddc:) and the namespace of Library of Congress Control Numbers (lccn:) would be registered by their respective authorities, then: the Dewey Decimal Classification 22/eng//004.678 (for the term "Internet") could be expressed as the "info" URI:<info:ddc/22/eng//004.678> and the Library of Congress Control Number 2002022641 could be expressed as the "info" URI <info:lccn/2002022641>.' NISO is going to act as the 'info' registry. Very neat. This basically sets up a parallel web of info spaces, where http/DNS space is just one of many, and anyone can register their namespace 'domain'. Way cool!!"

184 comments

  1. Dibs by dze · · Score: 5, Funny

    I call dibs on the pr0n:// namespace!

    --

    "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
    1. Re:Dibs by malx · · Score: 1

      > I call dibs on the pr0n:// namespace!

      Quite.

      One big flat namespace for domains for namespaces is good...how?

    2. Re:Dibs by smack_attack · · Score: 1

      new tld: .xxx

    3. Re:Dibs by Directrix1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How do people find this good? Right now in XML you can just declare your namespace to be anything. So now you have to pay for it? Fuck that.

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    4. Re:Dibs by SirDaShadow · · Score: 1

      new tld: .xxx
      Or .cum :)

    5. Re:Dibs by ZoneGray · · Score: 1

      I want: /.://

    6. Re:Dibs by akedia · · Score: 1

      Or .orgy

    7. Re:Dibs by JCCyC · · Score: 1

      No, not pr0n://pr0nID, but info://pr0n/pr0nID. All of these new URIs will begin with "info://".

      And since your request was poorly formatted, it is I who call dibs on the info://pr0n/ namespace. MWAHAHA!

    8. Re:Dibs by FireBreathingDog · · Score: 2, Informative
      Not to be pedantic, but it seems that the new URIs begin with:

      info:namespace/namespace-path

      The "//" construct is usually used to signal the start of a machine name, whereas the following slash is used to signal the start of the path on that machine.

      In this case, the notion of a machine is not used; it is more abstract than that. Hence, no "//"...

      We now return you to your regularly scheduled program of Microsoft-bashing and templatized joke-recycling...

    9. Re:Dibs by Froggie · · Score: 1
      How do people find this good? Right now in XML you can just declare your namespace to be anything. So now you have to pay for it? Fuck that

      1. no-one mentioned money;

      2. XML namespaces are on XML tags, not URLs.

      And this is insightful? Hmm...

    10. Re:Dibs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In SOVIET RUSSIA the template jokes recycle YOU!

  2. Verisign by pfifltrigg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just wait until someone like Verisign gets a hold of this. Utter chaos!

    1. Re:Verisign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Just wait until someone like Verisign gets a hold of this. Utter chaos!

      Wait until Microsoft geta a hold of this. An "all" namespace!

    2. Re:Verisign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as business gets wind of this, it will go straight down the tubes. Guaranteed.

    3. Re:Verisign by serutan · · Score: 1

      Something tells me we won't have to wait long.

      Next new thing: Namespace Squatting!

  3. Slashdotted by Sir+Haxalot · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    I have over 70 freaks, do you?
  4. Proposal for the IETF... by grub · · Score: 4, Funny

    URI
    URI <info:goatsecx/hello>

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  5. I'm really confused by Gizzmonic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seems like XML, only even more confusing. Arbitrary key names are now URIs? Where is the uniformity in this system?

    Without strict discipline, users will create their own, incompatible URIs in the same namespace. Their needs to be a guiding hand in all this-a document or company that oversees this project VERY carefully. We don't want this turning into some aimless metanarrative like the "Information Superhighway".

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    1. Re:I'm really confused by axlrosen · · Score: 4, Informative

      Arbitrary key names are now URIs?

      Uh no.

      There will be ONE new top-level scheme, "info". It will have (presumably a small-ish number of) second-level "namespaces". Each namespace will be a well-defined system run by some organization. So you could imagine an ISBN namespace, so a URI might look like "info:isbn:0465026567".

      The "info" scheme, and therefore the list of namespaces, will be controlled by an existing standards body called NISO. It's their job to impose the discipline on these URIs. End-users won't get to create their own - only NISO-approved bodies with a well-run namespace can add to this system. Sounds like a good idea to me. I can rely on the fact that any legitimate "info" URI will be well-organized and sensible, I hope.

    2. Re:I'm really confused by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      So, essentially, this solves a problem that doesn't exist, and in a way that sounds like it could create new problems.

      Consider that normally the protocal segment of a URI means something about the protocol. http: indicates use of HTTP methods for passing messages. ftp:, gopher:, mailto:, file:, etc: ... same thing. Info tells me nothing (ironically) about how to communicate with the resource, unless they are planning to define this further it's a useless idea. It also tells me nothing about what type of info

      I get no sense of what this accomplishes that URLs (and appropriate server-side scripts) like http://loc.info/LC1234/ or http://ddc.info/515.1212/ do not. In these cases the server can return information via HTTP that corresponds to the identifiers "LC1234" or "515.1212".

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    3. Re:I'm really confused by addaon · · Score: 1

      You are confusing URL's and URI's. URL's are a subset of URI's; one attribute of that subset is that the protocol segment, combined with the rest of the URI, allows one to "locate" the "resource". In a general URI, this location feature is not necessarily provided. Note that isbn:029193185 (or whatever) is /already/ a valid URI; what the info: URI set seems to do is provide mappings between multiple existing, redundant URI's.

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    4. Re:I'm really confused by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      You're right. I did get that wrong, but mostly because I'm not sure what problem we have now that this solves.

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    5. Re:I'm really confused by addaon · · Score: 1

      Using URI's, one can identify any object (assuming a URI scheme is made to include that object; for example, ISBN numbers or LOC numbers for books; because creating a new scheme is trivial, this is not much of a limitation). With the new info: protocol, if it's done correctly (which I'm not yet convinced of) one can CANONICALLY identify any object. This is a really big deal; before, it was not obvious (or even deducible, in the general case) that isbn:foo and loc:bar referred to the same book. If info: provides such mappings, it's a pretty big deal for anyone who uses URI's.

      --

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    6. Re:I'm really confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this up, or I'm gonna smack someone with a wet geoduck!

    7. Re:I'm really confused by rking · · Score: 1

      The "info" scheme, and therefore the list of namespaces, will be controlled by an existing standards body called NISO.

      Why would something called the "National Information Standards Organization" be controlling what's presumably an inernational scheme? Or is this supposed to be a local thing? It didn't sound like it.

    8. Re:I'm really confused by Kazin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hmm.... info:ebay/xxxx (whatever)
      or info:weather/06186 (hartford,ct)
      or info:ustel/800-867-5309 (jenny)
      or info:upc/3951080030 (sobe oolong)
      or info:mac/00:30:48:21:97:62
      or info:whois/slashdot.org

      Interesting.

    9. Re:I'm really confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      get your own internet if you don't like ours.

    10. Re:I'm really confused by danila · · Score: 1

      The thing is you don't need much organisation here. Everyone is capable of creating and running a namespace. If it is useful, people will use it. If someone abuses it, they won't. There are already some non-server-based namespaces: ed2k and magnet for P2P, as well as others. Everyone can have a program that uses "URIs" in these namespaces, and even without control from NISO everything works fine.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    11. Re:I'm really confused by bobthemuse · · Score: 1

      How long until info:isbn:0465026567 points to Amazon.com due to copyright infringement?

    12. Re:I'm really confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The identifier is not meant to resolve to a single resource. It identifies something abstract which for example as a component of a URL may resolve to a resource in many locations.

      so info:isbn:1234567890

      should identify the same book at Amazon, the local book store, your local library, or in your own or in your friends' collections of books. If you search Google isbn:0465026567 already works in this way to some extent.

  6. Domain squatters by jmerelo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    That mean there'll be domain squatters in many different levels. And for free!

  7. Dibs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I call dibs on the porn:// namespace!

  8. So who do I pay by antirename · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To get a namespace registered? ICANN? Verisign? This part was interesting: The "info" URI scheme explicitly decouples identification from resolution. Applications SHOULD NOT assume that an "info" URI can be dereferenced to a representation of the resource identified by the URI, though some business processes MAY make "info" URIs resolvable either directly or conditionally. The purposes of the "info" URI scheme are the identification of information assets and the standardization of rules for declaring and comparing identity of information assets without regard to any resolution of the URI or even whether the information asset identified by the URI is accessible on the Internet. This makes it look like this was intended more for internal use than for routing to specific information on the net. Anyone have a clear idea how and why this would be used on the internet?

    1. Re:So who do I pay by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Don't bother yet. Realize that this is an initial draft (you use all .0 software right? - Same goes for standards documents) AND an individual submission.

      I haven't looked in on the politics of this one but there are two kinds of individual submissions

      1 - Any idiot can mail something properly formatted to internet-drafts@ietf.org and get it published as an internet draft... don't believe me look here Individual Submissions - you will find this draft somewhere on this page

      2 - A working group is looking for a new working group item - so they ask the author to post an individual submission so they can consider his work before making a decision - These actually become RFCs

      Want a clue on WG items in the ietf - they come in the form draft-ietf-WGName-topic-rev.txt - The key is to not be fooled by people that post draft-ietf-lastname-topic-rev.txt

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
    2. Re:So who do I pay by cybaea · · Score: 1

      > So who do I pay to get a namespace registered? ICANN? Verisign?

      National Information Standards Organization (NISO) :

      http://info-uri.niso.org/info-uri-policy

      (Section 4 of the document)

      --
      Hi!
    3. Re:So who do I pay by nearlygod · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      My AOL 9.0 rocks!!!

      --
      The Tools Of Ignorance wanna be a tool?
    4. Re:So who do I pay by simonecaldana · · Score: 1

      > http://info-uri.niso.org/info-uri-policy

      it does not resolve to anything

      (luckily it wasn't .com or .net or else Verisign could set up an on-the-fly registrar site for info: URIs :))

    5. Re:So who do I pay by Yarn · · Score: 1

      WRT identification/resolution, I think it's similar to the nntp: URI. When you omit the server your software defaults to your preferences, which may include a payed for nntp server for alt.binaries.* etc.

      --
      -Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
  9. Yay! by MasTRE · · Score: 1

    Just what we needed! Quick, someone publish 10000 pages on the XML schema to implement it!

    --
    Must-not-watch TV!
  10. important info by ih8apple · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article:

    "The "info" URI scheme explicitly decouples identification from resolution. Applications SHOULD NOT assume that an "info" URI can be dereferenced to a representation of the resource identified by the URI, though some business processes MAY make "info" URIs resolvable either directly or conditionally. The purposes of the "info" URI scheme are the identification of information assets and the standardization of rules for declaring and comparing identity of information assets without regard to any resolution of the URI or even whether the information asset identified by the URI is accessible on the Internet."

    In other words, the info URI's will not be useful for anything other than providing context and identification. There is no resolution mechanism in place, nor do they intend to have any standard resolution mechanism, which makes the practical use of these URI's almost nonexistant (as current designed.)

    1. Re:important info by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Great :-( Now spammers will have a whole new way of getting to us without our being able to trace them(since info:// is not guaranteed to resolve to anything). Then there's squatters, faked A records, etc. This is another "solution" looking for a problem. Why not fix smtp first.

      If this ever comes about, I want the info://yhbt resource :-)

    2. Re:important info by sreilly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In other words, the info URI's will not be useful for anything other than providing context and identification. There is no resolution mechanism in place, nor do they intend to have any standard resolution mechanism, which makes the practical use of these URI's almost nonexistant

      There is a big difference between not requiring a resolution mechanism and not assuming a resolution mechanism. It may very well be that a client knows how to resolve info:dcc/* but not info:ssn/* URIs. The point is that info: URIs will identify objects, rather than specify one location where a digital instance of the object may be accessible.

      URIs have become the de-facto standard for referencing documents on the Internet. Don't you think it is more useful to reference documents/objects by their unique ID rather than a URL where one instance of that document may reside?

      As for not being useful without a resolution mechanism... are you saying that ISBN's, SSN's (if in the USA), and UPC barcodes aren't useful? This URI scheme simply provides a way to identify objects (digital or not) using a common identification scheme. The resolution mechanism can be added after the fact (or not, depending on the type of object, or how it is used).

    3. Re:important info by iabervon · · Score: 3, Informative

      These URIs (not URLs) are used to talk about data, not to access it. For example, the info:isbn:12345 namespace can be used to refer to books; then you can give such a URI to Amazon and they'll charge your credit card and ship you a physical book. The idea is just to have a single unit that contains both the ISBN and the fact that the number is an ISBN, so that computers can reliably recognize ISBNs (etc) rather than determining it from context (easy to lose) or guessing from format (easy to mess up).

    4. Re:important info by Thuktun · · Score: 1

      URIs have become the de-facto standard for referencing documents on the Internet. Don't you think it is more useful to reference documents/objects by their unique ID rather than a URL where one instance of that document may reside?

      I think these would be well-suited for identifying resources across multiple distribution networks, like the standard HTTP web, Freenet, bittorrent, file-sharing networks, etc., as well as making mirroring and distribution of load much easier.

    5. Re:important info by blowdart · · Score: 1
      I think these would be well-suited for identifying resources across multiple distribution networks, like the standard HTTP web, Freenet, bittorrent, file-sharing networks, etc., as well as making mirroring and distribution of load much easier.

      Well, internally in the music world there is a standard ID for every music track. Interesting that this could provide a globally unique identifier for anything.

      However info:/rfid/ is a little worrying ...

    6. Re:important info by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      So how is this better than XML (or YAML or even tab-delimited files) where you could easily make a DTD for Amazon purchases such that something like <purchase buyer="ichimunki"><book isbn="12345" /></purchase> then becomes a valid stream that you could send to them by any means you like (email to xml-orders@amazon.com, ftp://orders.amazon.com/incoming/, http://orders.amazon.com/incoming/, etc)? Things like ISBNs are already well defined with their own syntaxes, so what problem do we have that this solves?

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    7. Re:important info by FrangoAssado · · Score: 1

      I't better because every registered namespace has a standardized definition independent of the context. With XML (using the ISBN example), you could make a DTD for use by Amazon, but not everyone else would use this DTD. Some other bookstore (or library, etc.) could use instead a DTD where you should use .

      With the new scheme, it's easy to see that "info:isbn:12345" refers to a book, no matter whether it appears as the value of the attribute "isbn" of a element (defined in such-and-such DTD) or somewhere else.

    8. Re:important info by merlin_jim · · Score: 1

      As for not being useful without a resolution mechanism... are you saying that ISBN's, SSN's (if in the USA), and UPC barcodes aren't useful? This URI scheme simply provides a way to identify objects (digital or not) using a common identification scheme. The resolution mechanism can be added after the fact (or not, depending on the type of object, or how it is used).

      GUIDs have no built in resolution scheme yet look at how universally useful they are...

      --
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  11. Oh, great... by MouseR · · Score: 4, Funny

    With addresses like URI:, I'll spend more time on the phone trying to help my mother get where she needs to.

    1. Re:Oh, great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry about it, bud. I already got your mother where she needed to get to.

  12. ALL mistyped identifiers to go to "Hustler mag"! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ALL mistyped identifiers to go to "Hustler magazine" (or the highest monthly payer).

    Similar to Verisigns new 'service' to direct you to web-bugged spam pages autogenerated when you mistype a domain in a browser.

    With no checksum as part of the proposal this is an idiotic system full of mistyped symbols.

    but they WANT mistyped dewey decimal numebrs because then they can redirect you to porn merchants.

    A new revenue model!

  13. Um.. by Phroggy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Anyone else notice info-uri.niso.org doesn't exist?

    How exactly will browsers implement this new protocol?

    I'm confused about the concept of a "public namespace". If these new URIs are intended to point to information, where will that information be stored and how will it be retrieved?

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    1. Re:Um.. by vlad_petric · · Score: 2, Informative
      How exactly will browsers implement this new protocol?

      With the mighty Konqueror you only need a new kio slave :). The others will require a plugin (a very simple one actually)

      --

      The Raven

    2. Re:Um.. by Ianoo · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find Konqueror and Nautilus both already have info:// URLs for dealing with GNU info pages. So this'll have to change. Wonderful, progress, isn't it.

    3. Re:Um.. by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Informative

      RTFA: its not a URL, it explicitly says that it "should not" be assumed to point at anything.

      It is simply a standardized (by NISO) format for identifying something. Like the example given in the /. post:

      "info:lccn/2002022641" becomes the only way to refer to the given LCCN as a URI. No worries about "should it be 'LCCN', or 'LibraryCongressControlNumber', or should the number come first, or is 'lc' enough to let people know that its a library of congress number"... it explicitly sets the proper formatting for a Library of Congress control number URI. And so on. Any organization which wishes to standardize its namespace can apply to NISO to Make It So (tm). NISO assumes the responsibility of making sure that if the Library of Congress is using "lccn", then the Literary Clubs of Congo Nationalists cannot. And thats it. Thats all this does.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    4. Re:Um.. by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      I did RTFA and I didn't call it a URL. I guess I just don't understand what this is useful for. Perhaps that means it's not something that will ever be useful to me, but will come in handy for somebody else. Fair enough.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    5. Re:Um.. by elmegil · · Score: 1

      Of course, URL's were never expected to be as exposed to the world as they are today either.

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    6. Re:Um.. by Theatetus · · Score: 1

      Web browsers probably won't implement this protocol. There might conceivably be an "Info browser" that would browse various classes of namespaces, but they would hardly be useful.

      The only point here is to standardize object transaction namespaces for various fields. It is altogether fitting and proper that we do so, but it's not really an end-user protocol.

      Take the Library of Congress book classification system (this or Dewey Decimal make good examples of "how" because the implementation would be trivial, but they also make bad examples of "why" for the same reason). Every edition of every book catalogued by the Library of Congress has a unique LOC "value" (MLS's please correct me if I get off base here). Currently if you have a program that needs to use a book's LOC value, you have to figure out how to store and interpret it. If you want to pass that to another vendor's software, you would have to agree on how it's stored and interpreted, or write some sort of filter.

      The idea of this info: URI system is to standardize that kind of information for applications. All sorts of namespaces could be usefully included: LOC numbers, Army FM's, RISM scores (I'd love to see that one), etc.

      Essentially, this would be a set of industry standards on how to refer to information sets like that, as well as (presumably) a protocol for setting up your own info server to run your own namespaces.

      --
      All's true that is mistrusted
    7. Re:Um.. by sketerpot · · Score: 1
      Change it to, say, info:unix:info/whatever and then kludge around it to support old-style info:// URIs.

      That should work, but it raises another issue: can we namespace our identifiers, like I did with unix:info?

    8. Re:Um.. by flossie · · Score: 1
      NISO assumes the responsibility of making sure that if the Library of Congress is using "lccn", then the Literary Clubs of Congo Nationalists cannot. And thats it. Thats all this does.

      And the Congolese should be quite happy to accept such a ruling from a National standards organisation because ......

  14. Some further possibilities by jezor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This has some interesting possibilities, especially in the context of representing real-world elements in virtual space, and assist in more accurate search engine results. For example:

    info:map/40.47N/73.58W for NYC's Central Park

    could be encoded into any Web page about Central Park; and

    info:palm/model/P80900US for the Palm Tungsten C

    could be included in every online retailer's site where the T|C is sold.

    This would seriously enhance the now piece-meal effort to pick the best search term to find specific items that may have common names. {Jonathan}

    -------------------
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Associate Professor of Law and Technology
    Director, Institute for Business, Law and Technology (IBLT)
    Touro Law Center
    300 Nassau Road, Huntington, NY 11743
    Tel: 631-421-2244 x412 Fax: 516-977-3001
    e. jezor@tourolaw.edu
    BizLawTech Blog: http://iblt.tourolaw.edu/blog

    1. Re:Some further possibilities by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Yes, and unfortunately, like other semantic web-style proposals, it will take about 5 minutes to be abused so much by people trying to harvest clicks and user attention that it will rapidly become useless. If we can't rely on users to accurately list meta-keywords in HTML documents, why would any other such identifiers work better, without some sort of meaningful web-of-trust system built in?


      Just a thought. I would hate to go looking for info:palm/model/P80900US and find 8 million links to people trying to get me to surf over to their porn site.

    2. Re:Some further possibilities by Greedo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just a thought. I would hate to go looking for info:palm/model/P80900US and find 8 million links to people trying to get me to surf over to their porn site.

      No, that would be "info:palm/hairy"

      --
      Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
    3. Re:Some further possibilities by valdis · · Score: 1

      The poster you replied to had it right, and you took a left turn.

      info:palm/model/P80900US isn't a *LINK* to anything. It's a way of encoding "this is a Palm model P809.."

      If you think about it as a way to standardize the syntax of meta-keywords to make them more searchable, you'll be closer to the intent...

    4. Re:Some further possibilities by jezor · · Score: 1

      Actually, this kind of identifier would probably be easier to protect under trademark law than domain names, since there would be little way for the "URI-squatter" to argue that he wasn't referring to Palm's products when he incorporated "info:palm/model/P80900US" into his site. {Jonathan}

    5. Re:Some further possibilities by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Informative
      I never said that a URI was a link to anything. I realize that this new info URI is just a standardization of metadata, which is why I referred to the semantic web, another attempt to standardize metadata. I've been trying to explain for years to various people that XML URIs are not necessarily actual HTTP accessible resource addresses, and I always end up in futile discussions on the topic. Too confusing for many people, when people invent descriptive URIs that look exactly like resource locations in a particular addressing scheme based on DNS. So I think in a way, the info scheme is a good one if it reduces confusion about the meaning of these URIs.


      But my major point is that metadata without trust is not very useful in today's world. Any reference I made to links was only incidental (describing the current search engine situation).

    6. Re:Some further possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually is gets worst: since people abuse the meta-tags, if the metas get more precise they'll just abuse the system with more precision (hence some keywords will become absolutely useless because of such abuse).

      One example: you can't search for "anime" anymore without getting thousands of pr0n sites (if I search for "anime" I don't want "hentai" - anime is a currently abused keyword used by pr0n sites).

    7. Re:Some further possibilities by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1
      Arguably true, but we're back to square one, relying on a centralized arbiter of authority to issue and manage use of the info namespace. Who gets to use info:palm? What if another legitimate trademark holder on "palm" in a different field wants info:palm? Don't richer metadata schemes that are not strictly hierarchical, for example something based on RDF or the "semantic web" achieve the same results with fewer issues and opportunities for confusion, more opportunities for distributed trust, and a lesser requirement for a centralized registration repository?


      We need a common, useful and powerful language for describing metadata, not another broken, inflexible system like this.

    8. Re:Some further possibilities by tuggy · · Score: 1

      yeah.. and then info:os/linux and you'll get a M$ site that teaches you how to switch..

    9. Re:Some further possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Jackoff, what's with the sig? Do you really think anyone's going to mail/fax/call you from Slashdot?

    10. Re:Some further possibilities by MeNeXT · · Score: 1
      info:palm/reader/lines


      Now you bring up a great possibility. Would the above belong to Palm or to Hand Readers Anonymous?

      --
      DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
    11. Re:Some further possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still trying to convince people that hostnames and URLs aren't the same thing. It drives me nuts when someone calls cnn.com a URL.

    12. Re:Some further possibilities by danila · · Score: 1

      There is one thing you do not see here. There doesn't have to be a standard way to resolve such links. Your application can select the appropriate one (and so you can select what results you get). In case of "info:palm/..." link, your browser can be set to go to pricewatch.com or to amazon.com or just open your e-shopping application that would use XML to get results from different sites and present them to you. Alternatively you can install a helpful InfoBuddy that would redirect all such links to the most generous sponsor. :) But ultimately you control how such links should be resolved.

      As for the other example, info:map/... can launch your mapping application. You have video players that open AVI files and pnm://... links, you have image editors that open JPG files, you have mail clients that open mailto:... links. In the same way you can have a map viewer. Alternatively, there can be a general purpose info viewer that would use downloadable custom decoders/viewer (like WMP downloads codecs) to deal with different types of content.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    13. Re:Some further possibilities by danielsfca2 · · Score: 1
      > a general purpose info viewer that would use... custom... viewer[s]... to deal with different types of content.

      I am reminded of Sherlock on the Mac. It has "channels" which turn it into different purposes (Movie Showtimes/Trailers, Search, eBay Browser, etc.) Uses XML, I'm pretty sure. Since maps came up repeatedly, it's funny that the screenshot located on the page to which I linked above has a map (from the "Yellow Pages" channel).

    14. Re:Some further possibilities by TiggsPanther · · Score: 1

      But it seems to me mroe than just an extention/replacement to "Meta tags". These URIs look like they won't have to be tied to merely internet-based things. Just a standardised way of referring to certain things.

      Sure, punching info:foo/bar into a search-engine might well end up reachign some tosser's pr0n website with invalid metadata. But someone could do that anyway with any existing info.
      (e.g. Putting "RFC2234" in the META tags on your pr0n page, or Warez site.)

      But it would (or at leasy should...) allow for a standard way of referencing certain pieces of information.

      For example when looking for an RFC or MS Knowledgebase article, or anything similarly arranged, it can take a few attempts at searching depending on exactly how they reference it.

      But a simple info:rfc/2234 or info:mskb/826955 would provide a standard method of searching that you could at least (heopefully) trust to be implemented correctly in official sites. Or in libraries, magazines, publications, etc.

      --
      Tiggs
      "120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
  15. This is bad by Cranx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We already have top-level domains for that sort of thing. The resource identifier system (http:, gopher:, etc.) are already in-use and they're NOT used as namespaces.

    We don't need this sort of half-thought-out component to the domain name system. If you're going to do anything with resource identifiers, make a change to BIND to allow DN servers to map them to A records.

    You know what's going to happen. People are going to register these namespaces and use them instead of domain names. Then we're going to have two parallel systems: the name.dom style and the space:name style.

    Dumb dumb dumb.

    1. Re:This is bad by valdis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's only dumb if you are thinking of using it for resolving actual Internet resources. In fact, if you actually *read* (gasp, shock) the draft, it's *really* about providing a *SYNTAX* so you can represent things like a Dewey Decimal number or a product number or the VIN of your car or....

    2. Re:This is bad by Cranx · · Score: 0

      Not my job. If I had time to read through every single reference posted here, I would have to change my status to "unemployed." I went off what the article poster wrote (gasp, shock at me for trusting the article poster!), and I keyed off a few things the poster said that led me astray.

      But you're right, this is actually meant as a general-purpose system of identification, not an alternate way to resolve IPs.

  16. It's Already patented. by jpvlsmv · · Score: 4, Funny

    Check out URI:

    --Joe

    1. Re:It's Already patented. by borgboy · · Score: 1

      Actually, the info-namespace component of the uri should be normalized to lowercase, and I believe you need to escape the slash between the info-namespace and the identifier. See section 5 of the draft for more information. Maybe you just wanted to use the un-normalized form....

      --
      meh.
    2. Re:It's Already patented. by zoloto · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that actually put that in the address bar?

  17. Nice, but not quite perfect by asb · · Score: 1

    There are only a bit over 17000 TLA's and there already are 3 candidates for DDC (according to www.acronymfinder.com)...

    • Dewey Decimal Classification
    • Defense Documentation Center for Scientific & Technical Information
    • Department of Design and Construction (New York City)

    --
    Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
    1. Re:Nice, but not quite perfect by gsdali · · Score: 1

      And that's just in English.

    2. Re:Nice, but not quite perfect by op00to · · Score: 1

      dewey
      defensedc
      nycddc

      that wasn't so hard, use your imagination!

  18. URI:// by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so did the University of Rhode Island make this or are they just luck enough to get their school promo-ed in every webpages now? when i type URI into google what am i gonna get?

  19. How come... by j3thr0 · · Score: 1

    info:ddc/22/eng//004.678
    is better than
    http://www.ddc.com/22/eng/004.678

    --
    I'm schizophrenic; no I'm not.
    1. Re:How come... by jezor · · Score: 1

      Because the URL is a single Web page; the URI is an identifier that can be incorporated to every single Web page that fits the description. URLs and URIs do two different things; the former is a pointer to a file; the latter adds descriptive depth in an ideally universal way. {Jonathan}

      -------------------
      Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
      Associate Professor of Law and Technology
      Director, Institute for Business, Law and Technology (IBLT)
      Touro Law Center
      300 Nassau Road, Huntington, NY 11743
      Tel: 631-421-2244 x412 Fax: 516-977-3001
      e. jezor@tourolaw.edu
      BizLawTech Blog

    2. Re:How come... by valdis · · Score: 1

      DDC is a acronym for the Dewey Decimal System.

      www.ddc.com is apparently a hostname.

      info:ddc/22/eng//004.678 is talking about a *DEWEY DECIMAL SYSTEM* number, *NOT* a URL on a host.

      Consider this:

      info:temp/C/23

      Thats talking about a *temperature*, not a website called temp.

    3. Re:How come... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider this:

      info:temp/C/23

      Thats talking about a *temperature*, not a website called temp.


      No it's not, it's referring to the file 23 in my C: drive, or something, who cares. That's where this scheme fails in the same way that the DNS has failed. You and I disagree on what info:temp means and it is down to whichever of us registers temp first to win.

      Winning is no good, we both must exist which we can't do until both of us are separately registered and we can each define our own info:temp within our own domains. I can then use yours and you can use mine.

      OIDs, hideous though they may be, are excellent for separating out distinct entities and allow them to arbitrarily define their own namespace.

      It then all breaks down again as the set of nicknames that you would use to shortcut the twenty nodes in the OID tree to reach me become the bottleneck as the other Anonymous Cowards want to use the nickname.

      It's a tough question and URI<info:temp> doesn't solve it.

    4. Re:How come... by cifey · · Score: 1

      Something like

      http://www.ddc.com/[info:22/eng/004.678]

      combines the protocal, network location, and resource descripion all in one. However the resource could be distributed at more than one site(or protocol), or change addresses, which would break all the referring links. Therefore the resource should be dynamically resolved as per the URI recomendation.

      --
      Hello Cruel World
  20. Way cool?! by antic · · Score: 2, Funny
    Very neat. This basically sets up a parallel web of info spaces, where http/DNS space is just one of many, and anyone can register their namespace 'domain'. Way cool!!

    Err, things haven't been way cool!! since the Eighties...

    Isn't our industry trying to propel mankind into the future? Forwards is that way...

    --
    'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    1. Re:Way cool?! by Bishop923 · · Score: 1

      So what would be the new way of saying "way cool" oh grand master of current pop culture?

      The term "Cool", like a T-Shirt and Jeans, is timeless(ok at least in the past 50 years or so). No matter what the passing fad may currently be, it never seems to go out of date.

      Nifty, Groovy, Neato-Torpedo, Phat, Fly, Funky-Fresh, etc on the other hand...

    2. Re:Way cool?! by antic · · Score: 1

      Dude (and yes, I think that's made a comeback), we're talking about 'way cool' instead of simply 'cool'...

      I was nit-picking for humour, so, who cares. :)

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
  21. Forgot one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    URI

  22. Combine this with RFID... by DarthAle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and you can address (almost) everything! Look forward to a URI coming your way any time now..

    --
    What karma?

  23. Too easy.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why stop at pr0n (or adult://)? Let's get specific.

    images://
    shag://
    oral://
    3some://
    orgy://
    fetish://

    etc.

    Actually, this brings up an interesting point - everyone with a competing interest could very well seek to distinguish their business model with a URI specific to their industry. Doesn't that mean we could have way, way too many of these stupid things?

    1. Re:Too easy.. by ditto999999999999999 · · Score: 1

      What you are describing here are URL schemes... The article is about namespacing.

  24. What about oid namespaces by dmeranda · · Score: 1

    The URI namespace is already quite broad and has many ways to define "public" namespaces, usually based upon the URN subset of the URI specification. Just a few open-ended namespaces so far include the OID-based URI namespace, such as "urn:oid:1.3.6.1.2.1.27", (RFC 3061). You also have RFC 3151 for public identifier URIs.

    Really, there is nothing new technically here. The only useful thing it brings beyond the URN spec is the new registration authority. It can still prove useful, but it's not like it's actually solving any real technical limitation in our current set of URIs.

  25. Old Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hehehe, reminds me of an old joke:

    What would michael's namespace be?

    <gay:anal/69/bj//24.7>

    1. Re:Old Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are SOOO funny that I hope you DIE laughing.

      Cripe, you think that because you "remember" something that means someone else is interested in reading it--again? You think you are so clever? I don't want you to die. I want you in prison, although I suspect you belong in Juvie--either way, I'd like to see your flamebait become jail bait, ya baby fuck.

  26. Still need DNS equivalent... by cybaea · · Score: 1

    Writing a spec is the easy part (and this one seems particularly trivial). Implementing it is a lot harder.

    The main missing information seems to be a DNS equivalent function. It is one thing to introduce yet another central registrar to insure "against hostile usurpation or inappropriate usage of registered service marks" (groan!) but how are we going to access the information? Section 4.2 says

    The "info" Registry will be publicly accessible and will support discovery (by both humans and machines) of [...lots of stuff...]

    and it is clear from section 6 (Normalization and Comparison of "info" URIs) that any sensible implementation would need access, but how?

    The information they want to return is much more complex than what DNS returns and DNS is not a trivial infrastructure.

    Suggestions? Volunteers? :-)

    --
    Hi!
    1. Re:Still need DNS equivalent... by axlrosen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only things that need to be accessible is a list of the "namespaces" (i.e. the second-level bits). For example, it'll say that the "ddc" namespace is run by the Dewey Decimal Society (or whatever) and give their contact information. It won't resolve these URIs into resources, they way that a browser resolves a URL into a web page. (Though in some cases it may point to a resolver mechanism.)

      Don't expect to type these into your browser and view the results. This system is more for tagging and identification, not resolution.

  27. That's nothing by __past__ · · Score: 1

    With the data uri scheme, I can include the whole internet in my URIs!

    1. Re:That's nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you will find data: uri's are limited to 1k though mozilla will happily accept more.

    2. Re:That's nothing by Guillermito · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow! I didn't know that!

      And it works with Mozilla !

      Try selecting this text (taken from the RFC) and pasting it on a browser window!

      data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODdhMAAwAPAAAAAAAP///y wA AAAAMAAw
      AAAC8IyPqcvt3wCcDkiLc7C0qwyGHhSWpjQu5yqmCYsapyuvUU lvONmOZtfzgFz
      ByTB10QgxOR0TqBQejhRNzOfkVJ+5YiUqrXF5Y5lKh/DeuNcP5 yLWGsEbtLiOSp
      a/TPg7JpJHxyendzWTBfX0cxOnKPjgBzi4diinWGdkF8kjdfny cQZXZeYGejmJl
      ZeGl9i2icVqaNVailT6F5iJ90m6mvuTS4OK05M0vDk0Q4XUtwv KOzrcd3iq9uis
      F81M1OIcR7lEewwcLp7tuNNkM3uNna3F2JQFo97Vriy/Xl4/f1 cf5VWzXyym7PH
      hhx4dbgYKAAA7

      Does it work with IE too? (sorry, no Windows box at hand)

    3. Re:That's nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Does it work with IE too? (sorry, no Windows box at hand)
      Does anything work in IE? (you can take that as a NO)
    4. Re:That's nothing by SixDimensionalArray · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work in IE 6. But I did see it in Mozilla on Windoze XP! Who is that fellow?? :)

    5. Re:That's nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is he? Who knows! I assume he is the guy who wrote the RFC.

    6. Re:That's nothing by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Opera also supports "data" URI's. :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  28. Are these really URIs? by Hortensia+Patel · · Score: 1

    All the examples given - Dewey, Library of Congress etc - are classification schemes. They don't identify *resources* in the usual sense of the word.

    In other words, if I type a Dewey info: URI into Moz n+3, what do I get? The description for that code? A list of Gutenberg texts? A list of ISBNs? An Amazon search result?

    Anybody have examples of how these URIs would be used in practice?

    1. Re:Are these really URIs? by dmeranda · · Score: 1

      Yes, they do identify resources, or things. No, they don't tell you how or where to find them. This is the difference between a URI and a URL. A URI is just a name that identifies something, and that something doesn't even have to exist in the electronic world nor be reachable over the Internet.

      It is always up to applications to determine what to do, if anything, with a URI which is not also a URL. It is foreseeable that Mozilla could develop a "info" uri plugin model, whereby a plugin could be written which processes an "info:isbn" uri for instance and does take you to an Amazon/BN webpage. But that's an advantage of a URI over a URL; the "location" is not hardcoded into the identifier.

    2. Re:Are these really URIs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you'll get will depend on the local context in which you resolve the identifier. For a variety of reasons, libraries (particularly academic libraries) would like to have actionable identifiers for electronic resources that resolve to different locations depending on the context of the person doing the resolution. For example, assume both NYU and Harvard have subscriptions to the electronic journal Classical and Quantum Gravity, but through different online journal providers (and so each institution has different URLs to access the journal). If I create an info dentifier like "info:issn/0264-9381" to reference he e-journal, and have a local resolution mechanism for handling info identifiers, then I can have this identifier resolve to the copy of the e-journal subscribed to by NYU for me, while Harvard can have a separate resolution mechanism which points to their copy for their local users.

      All of their example namespaces actually can be used to identify individual resources (although you would need a Cutter number in the case of Dewey and those can be specific to a particular library, defeating the generally use-able identifier notion).

      My problem is I can't understand why we need this when we have the URN RFC out there already; this doesn't really accomplish anything beyond that. Their justification is that they don't think many info URIs will be permanent, and URNs are intended to be permanent identifiers, but that strikes me as a bit of a cop out when they start using LCCNs and DDCs in their examples. I've been noticing several proposals in the library community that smack of "People should be using URNs, but they're all apparently too stupid to do that, so we're going to reintroduce them under a different name and maybe this time they'll wise up." If half the time and energy that went into these proposals went into building URN resolution support into Mozilla and other browsers, URNs would be in widespread use by now.

    3. Re:Are these really URIs? by Cruxus · · Score: 1

      I can imagine a system being set up for info URIs so that a user agent can resolve a public namespace to an "info server" that would process that info URI for the given namespace and provide information, possibly in an XML or XHTML format.

      Imagine typing in the info URI for a Library of Congress call number and getting back information about the material referenced by that call number from a the Library of Congress server itself. For something common like weather or map, I guess you could choose what provider would handle that info URI for you. Thus, you could choose to have info-uri.weather-forecasts.org whereas your neighbor might choose some other service. However, whatever service is chosen, they will all follow the same standard. A programmer could write a browser plug-in for that would get XML data from whatever source and spit out XHTML nicely formatted so that they can get the weather tidbits most useful for them.

      I can already see so many great uses for this scheme if institution politics doesn't get in the way! I'm half tempted to develop something to use this even if there is no formal standard behind it.

      --
      On vit, on code et puis on meurt.
  29. Here we go again. by inertia187 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I remember radio ads way back in 1997, 98 where they'd read out the entire URL, which was excruciating:

    "H T T P colon slash slash W W W dot (pause) whatever dot (pause) com"

    Are we going to have to relive that if new namespaces are added?

    --
    A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code.
    1. Re:Here we go again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they used to say "backslash backslash" in error on radio adds. Wait, maybe I'm thinking of '95-'96. Nevermind.

    2. Re:Here we go again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not to mention

      double u double u double u

      in english speaking countries :)

  30. Dewey Decimal is not a good example by furrygeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps the Dewey Decimal classification isn't the best example. After all, it's not in the public domain.

  31. And how is Mozilla going to handle this? by elmegil · · Score: 0
    A while back, as my company was/is migrating from Netscape 4 (which supports telnet:// and rlogin://) to Netscape 6/7/Moz 1.X, I investigated what was up with the fact that Mozilla and all its derivatives no longer support telnet:// or rlogin:// on Unix machines. What I found was pretty disturbing. There is a section of the code, that is OS specific, that is supposed to handle "extensions" to the URI tags. Windows implements this by digging into the OS registry, pulling out the right executable, and calling it. This is evidenced by the fact that you can use the newer browers on a Windows box, click on a telnet:// link and voila! you have a hyperterm or telnet connecting you where you wanted to go.

    The same source code in the Unix version appears to have been cut/pasted from the Windows version and then had everything but the first handful of comments (which still refer to the Windows Registry!) excised. Leaving no way directly in the code to extend your URI tags.

    I have *recently* seen that someone hacked up an XPI to re-implement telnet:// and a few other choice things, but his code only works on Moz 1.3 and relatively new Firebird installations, so it doesn't suit my needs. I tried poking at it to make it default some values, to see if that was all that was wrong with the earlier stuff (i.e. no way to set up the "helper apps" from NS 6/7 etc) but that didn't work.

    So how do we expect the Mozilla family of browsers to handle even more new tags? Is there going to be some standard way to extend this, without resorting to XPI hacks that are heavily version dependant? Will someone actually implement the OS-specific code necessary? (no, don't ask me to do it, I'm a support guy, not a coder, and anything I'd write would be horrible I'm sure). I can't see how this is likely to fly very far....

    --
    7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  32. Very Interesting by rpk · · Score: 1

    I bet the RDF advocates (here's a primer) are going to love this, because RDF already uses URIs to refer to objects, although the URIs are often used just as a namespace themselves. In other words, just because you see a URLI in a RDF fragments doesn't mean it actually exists, it's just a name for something. This is not unlike XML namespace use of URIs. If you could refer to more kinds of objects with URLs that could be resolved, that would make RDF more useful.

  33. Potential for abuse by stupid people by jezor · · Score: 3, Informative

    Something just occured to me:

    How quickly do you think that some unthinking government agency or financial institution will start including Social Security numbers into URIs, and make them publicly searchable? It will probably happen accidentally, given that so many institutions use SS#s as identifiers even though they're not supposed to.

    *sigh*

    {Jonathan}

    -------------------
    Prof. Jonathan I. Ezor
    Associate Professor of Law and Technology
    Director, Institute for Business, Law and Technology (IBLT)
    Touro Law Center
    300 Nassau Road, Huntington, NY 11743
    Tel: 631-421-2244 x412 Fax: 516-977-3001
    e. jezor@tourolaw.edu
    BizLawTech Blog

    1. Re:Potential for abuse by stupid people by pknoll · · Score: 1
      Government agencies are restricted regarding whether or not they can ask for your SSN to use it as an identifier. Shortly, they must include a Prvacy Act Disclosure Notice, which will describe which law allows them to ask, whether or not you have to comply, and what will happen if you don't.

      Private companies, individuals, etc. are not subject to these restrictions at all, so you could potentially see some abuse there. However, just as there is no law that says companies can't ask for your SSN, there's no law that says you have to give it to them.

    2. Re:Potential for abuse by stupid people by DongleFondle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a really good point and probably a very likely scenario considering some people who probably don't consider themselves "stupid people" damn-near post the SOC in their ./ sig.

      *sigh*

  34. David Brin... by el_DemeNTe · · Score: 3, Interesting
    uses something similar to this form of information addressing in a book called "Earth", which he wrote in 1990. Essentially, he used what seem to be either ISBN plus some other alphanumeric identifier when the main character pulls up the "screenshots" that appear in the book's text. It is almost scary to see the parallels between this and what he was "predicting" for the internet.

    When I first read this article, it was the first thing that came to mind. (Maybe because I'm reading it now! :-)

    -el_D
    1. Re:David Brin... by jdaily · · Score: 1

      Put the book down, now.

      Save yourself several hours, if it's not already too late. "Earth" is one of the worst investments of time I've ever made; it's an atrocious book, combining the subtlety of Guns 'n' Roses with the creativity of George Bush (either edition).

      -John

  35. Hah! by el_flynn · · Score: 2, Funny
    URI info is belong to us.


    ahem.

    --
    The Wknd Sessions - Malaysian and South East Asia independent music
  36. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! GARBAGE LINKS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Yup, when I get "stung" on the goatse.cx page I always laugh. The "oh that's disgusting" crowd don't see the humour I guess.

  37. too damn confusing by ColeNielsen · · Score: 1

    Sure It's a great idea and could help organize the web a little... It would be expensive to implement as new software woul dhave to be purchased EVERYWHRE -> How confusing would all this be for the average computer user? -> Would it still be possible to effectively search across namespaces?

    Just food for thought

  38. running out of characters... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the 80's it was underscores:
    some_textfile_whatever_blah_blah_blah

    In the 90's it was periods:
    System.out.println("Hello 90's World!!");
    www . whatever . com

    In the new millennium it's SLASHES?!
    /why/do/i/want/to/store/information/this/way

  39. Call me crazy, but.... by ctxspy · · Score: 1

    I am beginning to get the "point" of this.

    It's definitely not going to be a 'host lookup' mechanism.. It's kinda like a search engine

    Instead of typing keywords into your "search engine", you type the URI into there...

    THEN, all the pages that contain that URI in their page body will be returned as a list.

    It's a way to specify data more closely, hence hoping to make for better search engines.

    (That's enoguh of me talking out of my ass now)

  40. This is URN in a new dress by hta · · Score: 1

    1) this is just the same idea as URN (provide identification rather than protocol:hostport). That's a basically good idea, IMHO. But we don't need a multitude of slightly different variants.
    2) the DDDS (name resolution that can be based on DNS) is already an Internet (proposed) standard that can be used to resolve arbitrary URIs with DNS support - if the authors so desire.
    References at an RFC library near you.

  41. Still Waiting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, this may be all well and good (dont'
    know, haven't looked at it closely), but I'm
    still waiting for a sensible addition to the
    .us namespace:

    .com.us
    .edu.us
    .net.us
    .gov.us
    .mil.us

  42. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! GARBAGE LINKS by emilymildew · · Score: 1

    Always? You mean you get "stung," as you so quaintly put it, more than once? Dude, the domain name the link goes to is RIGHT THERE.

  43. Additional namespaces for UPC's, etc.? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    Are we going to see UPC namespaces, and other databases converted over? Personally, I'd like to see a standardized way to access a company's product page for a given product. For example, one of my art prints could be listed under info:devinmoore/prints/printx or something like that. IS that what this service will do, beyond the library classification? Furthermore, will the library of Congress publish all their books online to the system? That would be rad!

    --
    stuff |
  44. Sure by borius · · Score: 0

    But it won't be any good until major browsers (IE, Mozilla, Safari) support it out of the box.

  45. I knew the by fred911 · · Score: 1

    CueCat was way ahead of it's time. Wow.. the possibilities!

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  46. UR* Jungle... by oren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Quick, without peeking at the answer, what's the difference between a URI, a URL, and a URN? OK, now that we are all on the same page :-), what is "info:"? you'd expect it to be a URN. It isn't (from the RFC):

    7.2 Why Not Use a URN Namespace ID for Identifiers from Public Namespaces?

    RFC 2396 [RFC2396] states that a "URN differs from a URL in that it's primary purpose is persistent labeling of a resource with an identifier". An "info" URI on the other hand does not assert persistence of resource names or of the resource itself, but rather declares namespaces of identifiers managed according to the policies and business models of the Namespace Authorities. Some of these namespaces will not have persistence of identifiers as a primary purpose, while others will have locator semantics as well as name semantics. It would therefore be inappropriate to employ a URN Namespace ID for such namespaces.


    Which I read to mean that an info: URI may, or may not, be a URL (i.e., useful for actually accessing the resource); may, or may not, be a URN (i.e., provides some semblence of a chance that it means the same thing today as it did yesterday). Oh, did I mention that it may, or may not, be case sensitive, and may or may not be subject to scheme-specific normalization rules?

    It seems that someone (say "Perfection") got fed up holding the fort agains a hoard of requests for top-level URI schemes - or someone (say "Kludge") got fed up with the demand that these schemes actually have some well defined semantics. Or both. Either way, they had this brilliant notion... why don't we have a junk^H^H^H^Hinfo: URI scheme with as little control over semantics as we can get away with? If some top-level URI scheme sucks, we'll just put it there. We'll spin off a company to be the registrar so "Perfection" will be able to pretend not to see it, and "Kludge" will be able to register all the junk^H^H^H^Hinformation URIs he wants!

    I guess it does make some sort of twisted sense... In the meanwhile, proposals like the taguri proposal languish. Here's a years-old proposal that attempts to define coherent semantics for time-persistant identifiers, without requiring a (new) registration agency. We can't have that, can we?

    Sigh. Insert mandatory "I for one welcome the arrival of our new info:disposable:gjyr4784ghf89yf4h URI masters" post here...

  47. Genuinely reliable by AllenChristopher · · Score: 2, Funny

    You can rely on a rich new vein of controversial decisions on minor points of particular namespaces for Slashdot to cover. You can also rely on hundreds of us, batty-eyed from trying to find a bug, safely venting our anger on these design mistakes instead of throttling every co-worker listed before us in a module's revision history.

  48. relationships with DOI? by deepsky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looks to me this proposal is another way of uniquely tagging digital content.
    Could someone explain if and how this proposal is somehow similar to (or different from) the Digital Object Identifier standard (DOI)? DOI, although proprietary (like EAN, UPC, etc) is gaining momentum; for example, here in Italy is going to be adopted as a general standard for the public administration documents.

    1. Re:relationships with DOI? by LinkingGod · · Score: 2, Informative

      doi comes with a resolution system, based on cnri's handle system. You pay to get a prefix.

      The info scheme will probably include doi as a namespace info:doi/ although the doi people want to get "doi:" in as a top-level uri scheme.

      every item assigned a doi has to go into the doi registry; with info, only the namespaces will get registered

  49. Dumb by Shwag · · Score: 1

    It is still going to require another registry that has central control. All this does is "one up" the game. What would be better is a global decentralized directory where anyone can broadcast their own name, and it is verified and authenticated by users storing the proper authentication key. This is slightly similair to what Skype has done with their global decentralized user directory.

    Any downfalls you can name for this system still doesn't rule out the benefits of it being run IN ADDITION to central controled DNS with problems like Verisign.

  50. Better by Petronius · · Score: 1

    I'm registering

    Call me Verisign-boy

    --
    there's no place like ~
  51. well exactly who by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Needs something more difficult than the present system? Prolly *nix weenies!!! Ya cunts.

  52. Example case requires Dewey Decimal license fee! by morcheeba · · Score: 1

    The Dewey Decimal System is a highly protected trademark of Online Computer Library Center -- use it without paying a license fee, and they'll sue you (another story)

    From their FAQ: May I use the DDC to organize information on my Web site?

    The DDC is owned by OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Incorporated ("OCLC"). We do consider licensing arrangements for the DDC database. To request a licensing proposal, please send an e-mail message to DeweyLicensing@oclc.org, describing in detail your proposed use of the DDC.

  53. Violates KISS principle by chiph · · Score: 1

    Like it or not, the majority of Internet users today are what a typical slashdot reader would call "newbies". (Think about your mom using a web browser and ending up at whitehouse.com instead of whitehouse.gov)

    Anything that increases the complexity of internet addressing without good cause would cause more harm than good. In other words, it violates the KISS principle to keep it simple.

    Chip H.

  54. Sounds like you should be posting to the moz dev by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    boards... yes?

    Why bother wasting your typing on /.?

    When you want something done in the OO society...
    You need to bug the people that are doing the coding.

  55. Re:Sounds like you should be posting to the moz de by elmegil · · Score: 1
    Why bother wasting your typing on /.?

    Because it's topical to the article in question?

    --
    7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  56. URLs already work this way by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    URLs already offer this functionality. Even the HTTP protocol URL offers it, along with a minimal structure that reflects how current infosystems are structured:

    http: //[/][?]
    The "path" and "query string" components of the HTTP URL can be any arbitrary sequence of HTTP-URL-legal characters. The path typically maps directly to a subtree of a hierarchical filesystem accessable by an HTTP server, and the query string typically maps directly to a list of named argument values. However, that merely reflects how people have configured their servers. A different API can easily be coded in that URL format. For example, a SQL server can easily be wrapped in an HTTP server, with parameterized queries like

    http://sql-server.domain.tld/INSERT%20INTO%20tab le %20VALUES%20(%3F%2C%20%3F)?field1=100&field2=2 0
    which could execute the URL-decoded statement "INSERT INTO table VAUES (?, ?)" with arguments field1 and field2 set to 100 and 200, respectively. TinyURL.com completely genericizes the API by translating a unique ID into any URL, as defined. The Dewey Decimal System URL in the IETF draft example could be

    http://info.DeweyDecimalSystem.com/ddc/22/eng//0 04 .678

    Other URL schemes, like FTP, or even "file:" can map similarly. So all the draft does is establish a new registrar, a la VeriSign, to sell access to a new namespace. How long before the NISO registrar is spun off, and probably snapped up by VeriSign?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  57. Monopoly by yerricde · · Score: 1

    However, just as there is no law that says companies can't ask for your SSN, there's no law that says you have to give it to them.

    "There's no law that says you have to" survive. If a geographic monopoly provider of one of the basic human necessities requires you to do something in order to obtain its product, you have to do it, move, or die.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Monopoly by pknoll · · Score: 1
      Try asking why they require your SSN, next time you're asked.

      Often, private companies have no legitamate use for your Social Security Number. You might be surprised how often they actually don't need it, and can use an invented number instead.

      You may also be surprised how easy it is to not give it to people. Try it sometime. For more information, try reading here.

  58. Why not URN? by Fastolfe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know the document discusses this, but I don't know that I buy the explanation. The spec says a URN should be persistent, and since we don't want to enforce persistency we go off and create something new?

    So now when I want to come up with a new way to label information internally, I have two avenues that are now, for most intents and purposes, competitors. If I want a persistent label (for my own definition of persistency, since either way, these are still my labels), I can go with URN or info at my discretion. If I don't want persistency, and want to be anal about my interpretation of a URN, I'm sort of "encouraged" to go with "info".

    It just seems counter-productive to create something brand new when a URN is probably going to be good enough. Maybe we just need to use urn:dyn or urd: or urt: instead of urn: if we want to make it very clear that the namespace underneath that will be dynamic.

    It just bugs me when standards bodies go off and start considering two different implementations of something that overlap 99% in purpose.

    Am I missing something? Is the persistency thing really that much of a blocker that a URN is so inappropriate that something else entirely needs to be invented?

  59. This is ridiculous! by getnuked · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everyone will become totally confused, not only because this is a new obfuscated URI scheme, yet because there is a .info TLD!

  60. Change to BIND???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a good idea! Take the most archaic, difficult to use/administer/maintain system on the net and add functionality.

    90% of admins out there can't properly set their DNS servers up now, what would happen if you added this to BIND.

    1. Re:Change to BIND???? by Cranx · · Score: 1

      It would be another feature for those of us who CAN use BIND properly, and yet another feature hidden away from those who cannot. Six of one, half dozen of the other; you can embed a web server into BIND and most people wouldn't notice.

  61. Huh? by Gallifrey · · Score: 1

    Why do we need this? What's wrong with our current namespace that this will fix?

    Sometimes it seems like many new ideas generate excitement just because they are new. This is one of them. Want to look up a patent, go to http://www.uspto.gov/ and look it up! There's no need for a URI of <info:USPTO/patents/12345666789>. Strings like that only get geeks excited...

  62. the point of "info" is "openURL" by LinkingGod · · Score: 1

    it's worth noting that the "info" work emerged from NISO's OpenURL development. OpenURL is a standard for packaging metadata into a URL. Hundreds of libraries around the world have implemented resolution systems ("link resolvers") based on this OpenURL standard.

    The info URI will just be a way to reference things so that these link resolution facilities can understand.

  63. great idea! by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
    This is a great idea. Google is great for random information especially third-party info on something, but getting to an exact document can be very difficult.


    Many people are well trained in looking things up in massive dead tree tomes of tenichal documents, Library drawers, etc. If you know how to use the Dewey Decimal system for example, you can find a book in a card catalog at a library even faster than using Google! It's all about the right tool for the job.


    Also, unlike Google, these are very specific identifiers. Exactly one company has rights to a registered IBSN book, Or one company sets the standard of indexing [dewey decimal]. This could be good for government documents and forms, RFC/ANSI/ISO/SAE specs, and manufacturer part numbers.


    My step-dad works in the QC department at a electronics assembler and constantly needs to look up component specs for verification. He's looking for an exact document from an exact company, times hundreds of components at a time...Google doesn't cut it here...too much clutter. Typically [back in the 80's] companies used to produce entire techinical libraries of technical documentation [and have to update it YEARLY] now we have the web, but we've lost the simple ability to just "grab a book" and be done with it...this scheme would help with that.


    That said, They should have just gone to Google with it. It'd make a great "google hack" that google could even profit from! Who knows, maybe Google will still beat them to it!

  64. OCLC is an author of the draft by JohnQPublic · · Score: 1

    Read the fine internet-draft. One of the authors is from OCLC. Wanna guess that he knows how the Dewey numbers can and can't be used?

    1. Re:OCLC is an author of the draft by morcheeba · · Score: 1

      Sorry, didn't notice that. A pretty bad miss.

      (tin foil hat on)
      Just because they suggest it doesn't mean it'll be free. In fact, this draft could be seen as a way to generate revenue when relatively few people use the DDS on the internet now (AFAIK - for example, most bookstores use the ISBN).

      Anther company tried to get their patents into an international standard, and then extract license fees from people who followed the standard.
      (tin foil hat off)

      But I hope OCLC and all future owners of the DDS have good ethics.

  65. No, they don't by JohnQPublic · · Score: 1

    URLs specify methods for accessing resources, not identifiers for them. The "info:" draft explicitly states that the things it's intended to name might not be "resources" - that they might not be accessable online and that you shouldn't even try. The idea is a way to *talk about* objects, not to *retrieve* them.

  66. Repositories suck by JohnQPublic · · Score: 1

    As much as I actually like the idea, it's too-heavily based on the unfortunate concept of a repository. I don't mind *having* a repository, but look at what it's going to contain! You can't even successfully compare two "info:" URIs without checking the repository to determine if they're case-sensitive. Important information that would be useful offline shouldn't live in the repository.

  67. URLs *do*, maybe URIs *shouldn't* by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Strictly, the URL is a Locator, which specifies "where" in virtual space a resource is located. And a URI is an Identifier, which specifies a resource's identity. The "info:" URI draft duplicates the URL, as demonstrated by the DDS and LLCN examples, replacing eg. HTTP's network domains, hierarchical filesystems and argument strings with their own native structures, eg. DDS hierarchical notation and LLCN ID numbers. The existing URL format is so similar, because it does the same thing. An info: URI specifies how to retrieve an object from a namespace. One problem with the info: mechanism is that it privatizes the APIs to the different namespaces, which balkanizes the implementation; each namespace has its own private language. Another problem is that an object is not necessarily strictly "identified": identical books would have different DDS and LLCN URIs, so an identical object has non-identical identifiers. These problems with URIs, and the utility of URLs, have stood in the way of introducing a URI that deals with object identity, without the baggage of its location, or other artifacts of the infosystems in which they are represented.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  68. Alternet DNS? by Moxy.org · · Score: 1

    I could see a cool use of this. We could use something like AlterNic or OpenNic using something like: info:alternic/somehost.tld That would make linking between the two namespaces mind numbingly easy and would basically make it usable to just about anyone.

    --
    Oops! .sig not found.
  69. tag: URIs by SandHawk · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the mention (I'm co-author of the tag: URI draft), but tag: URIs are languishing in large part because it's not that clear they are useful. They have some of the same problems
    as info:, namely they don't give you any handy functionality. They just kind of sit there. They're not not nearly as cool as http, for most uses.

    That said, I still kind of want them approved to help focus people who DO want this kind of thing. But since it's not very important to me, I have a hard time putting time into jumping IETF hoops.

    1. Re:tag: URIs by oren · · Score: 1

      "Just sitting there" is what all URNs are for. I don't see it as a down side. As for usefulness - I'm co-author of the YAML spec, and it exactly fits our needs. It seems to me the ability to mint persistant URIs is universally useful. Making them easy to work with (e.g., compare), and doing it without a new registrar is great.

      I don't see why the draft can't be adopted as is. Then again, I have zero knowledge of the IETF processes involved. Is there a way the YAML community can promote the approval?

  70. concept OK, name dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What numbskull decided to call it "info"? I'm going to smack the next person I see who creates a directory on his computer called "data", thinking this will be an informative and useful name that differentiates it from other things.

    If you're one of those people, I've got news for you: everything in all your directories is data! Yes, that's right, even the software is data. The chat logs, those are data too. And the swap file? Also data. Also, viruses aren't an exception. They're data as well.

    Likewise with "info". If this URI begins with "info", then what does that mean the rest of everything is? It's not info? Like if I go to http://www.cnn.com/ and read some news there, then I'm not getting some info from there? Or what if I visit something like ftp://ftp.gnu.org/ ? Since I'm using FTP, the File Transfer Protocol, I'd be transferring some files, and let me think about what files are. Oh yeah, they're a way of storing info.

    I've already seen this abuse of the English language on web pages. I am often given a chance to click on, say, "map", "contact us", "products", or "info". Well gosh, maybe I'm a bit confused, but I am sitting here looking at a web page, which must mean (if you ask Al Gore, etc.) that I'm on the Information Superhighway. And the stuff appearing on my screen doesn't seem to be a real, tangible object. It's not animal, vegetable, or mineral, so I guess it's information. But here is this link indicating to me that it is apparently the true source of "info", so I guess all this other stuff I'm seeing only seems like it's info.

    Maybe if I click on it, it will give me some info that will help me understand this strange and confusing way of speaking.

  71. I guess I'm missing something by lelnet · · Score: 1

    I fail to see the practical utility of this proposal. Unlike existing schemes, this one is explicitly not designed to be resolvable. One must wonder, given that, what good it is.

  72. commercialization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this will ultimately lead to a sitation in which users end up paying for everything, and information being controlled more tightly. as it is people cannot even imagine that at one point of time domain names were free.... anyways, XML sucks big time for being so bloody complex.. XML is info for machines, not for people....good for automation and the big folks, not for people like me, u or anybody else.

  73. Way uncool! by Kopretinka · · Score: 1
    What is the difference between, say, http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641 and info:lccn/2002022641?

    The latter requires a new URI scheme (deployment of new URI schemes is expensive)

    The latter requires a new registry

    The other difference is that info: is not http:. But why exactly does a piece of software need to know that a URI identifies an "information asset"? HTTP URIs identify resources that may be (or may get or may have been) dereferencable using HTTP, no more semantics than that. Oh, and every organization (that would possibly want to register an info: namespace with NISO) already has its domain name.

    Basically, IMHO it's cheaper (both for the organization and for the internet) if the org just creates a URI form (like the loc.gov above) and uses that.

    --
    Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
    1. Re:Way uncool! by TiggsPanther · · Score: 1
      What is the difference between, say, http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641 and info:lccn/2002022641?
      • The latter requires a new URI scheme (deployment of new URI schemes is expensive)
      • The latter requires a new registry

      From reading through the gist of the article and the /. replies here, it's the difference between a URI (idintifier) and a URL (location).

      http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641 might tell you where to find a copy of the information, but info:lccn/2002022641 would tell you what it was.

      Tiggs

      So a mirror site, slashdot article, or official "hardcopy" document would still be info:lccn/2002022641, regardless of what/where it was. But only the specific page would be http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641.

      --
      Tiggs
      "120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
    2. Re:Way uncool! by Kopretinka · · Score: 1
      http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641 might tell you where to find a copy of the information, but info:lccn/2002022641 would tell you what it was.

      Not necessarily. HTTP URIs identify resources; it's true that HTTP resources usually are web pages, but that's not the rule. With http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641 one can identify the thing; with one representation of it being readily available at the same address. Remember - multiple URIs may identify the same resource, and one particular representation may be in fact a representation of multiple resources at various (not necessarily different) instants of time.

      The thing is, one resource can be "the document", another can be "the document in an XML form", yet another can be "the document as of 2003/10/01" etc. It's the naming authority (loc.gov in our case) that decides what the URI identifies.

      --
      Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
    3. Re:Way uncool! by TiggsPanther · · Score: 1
      Not necessarily. HTTP URIs identify resources; it's true that HTTP resources usually are web pages, but that's not the rule. With http://loc.gov/lccn/2002022641 one can identify the thing; with one representation of it being readily available at the same address.

      I still say that an HTTP URL is a pointer to that specific copy of the page, rather than an expicit refence to the information on it[*].
      From one point of view an HTTP URL and an INFO URI wouldn't seem at all different, as they give the same result. But it seems to me like the difference between an actual copy of a book in a library, and it's Dewey number.

      Tiggs

      [*] - Although if the webpage is the only copy of the information, then it will act as a reference to it.

      --
      Tiggs
      "120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
    4. Re:Way uncool! by Kopretinka · · Score: 1
      You know, URIs identify resources; and that is URIs of any kind, URNs or HTTP URLs alike. The naming authority who creates the URIs (NISO-registered owner of a namespace for info: URIs, the owner of the domain for HTTP URIs) gets to decide what the URI identifies.

      According to some (including me), a URI may identify me. A URI may indentify a book the same way its Dewey code identifies it. The advantage of using a dereferencable URI is that you can presumably (not always, but usually) get a representation of the resource.

      Still, according to some, and contrary to the naive opinion (no offense meant), HTTP URIs don't identify documents - what do you do about CGI scripts, like "the current weather in Prague"? OK, let's broaden it to changing documents. This still won't work - what do we do with content negotiation? I can request a JPEG representation of www.example.com/ and get the picture of the Example Corp. and I can request an HTML representation and I'll get the home page.

      Anyhow, there's an ongoing discussion on this topic in the W3C, see the TAG list. (too lazy to look up the links) E.g. is what you get a description of a resource or is the description itself a resource and should get a different URI?

      It's all kinda murky... 8-)

      --
      Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
  74. Wrong construct by cpopin · · Score: 1

    The "//" is not the beginning of a machine name.

    Before I explain, let me get something else out of the way. Windows uses back slashes "\\" as the start of a machine name followed by "\" and a path. I'm not sure if that's what you were thinking.

    That being said, the "//" is used to describe the network. What goes between these two forward slashes is the name of the network. If left empty, it defaults to the Internet. It's reserved for the next version of the Internet.

    The info: tag is more closely related to the mailto: tag.

    --
    -=- Many seek good nights and lose good days.