Linux In Hollywood: Status Report

segment writes "TechNewsWorld is running an article about Linux in Hollywood. The article describes speed advantages, cost advantages, movies in which Linux played a role (including Shrek, Star Wars, and Titanic). Mentions of the embrace for Linux with history on Apple, Microsoft, and other vendors, and how they've adapted to the use.`As a rule, no major studio will rely on a tool without access to the source code. The risk is too great. It's not that the studios want to putter around modifying commercial programs, rather it's insurance -- insurance that they can do so if they must to meet a production deadline.` Very informative article." Robin Rowe (the author) is the project manager for Cinepaint (formerly "FilmGimp"), but writes about 3D applications, barriers to software entry in Hollywood, and more.

Comments

what exactly could they do?

[Anonymous Coward]

to change the source code in order to meet a rendering deadline? are they going to suddenly come up with a miracle optimization because they need to meet a deadline?

Re:what exactly could they do?

[l810c]

I think they are referring to bugs. If you have a bug that is holding you up, you are much better off if you can fix it yourself rather than relying on a closed source software vendor to fix it for you.

Re:what exactly could they do?

[NanoGator]

"are they going to suddenly come up with a miracle optimization because they need to meet a deadline?"

Why not? Movie studios tend to push the limits of the tools they have available. This means that they run into problems that the software wasn't originally designed for. All they'd have to do is massage the code to their particular situation.

I can give you a hypothetical scenario. Lightwave's a kick ass 3d package. It can be used in a wide variety of things. But if you were using it to animate 1,000 monsters coming down a hill, you'd find yourself wishing you had terabytes of memory. Lightwave doesn't have an instancing feature. Thankfully, though, Lightwave has a neat little SDK. So somebody could write a plugin that says "first render this model in this pose here, then move the model over to where the second guy is supposed to be and render it over there, rinse and repeat...". I think it's called instancing. Instead of having 1,000 monsters in RAM, you just have one.

See what I mean? Granted, nobody has the source code to Lightwave but the company who made it, but imagine if they did. A few nights of coding would save a few weeks of render time.

Re:what exactly could they do?

[foandd]

Yes. In fact, DD did exactly this when they ran into a problem while rendering the water for Titanic.

Remember, just because you're not clever enough to imagine a situation where having the source code is useful doesn't mean such situations don't exist.

Re:what exactly could they do?

[code_echelon]

"Thankfully, though, Lightwave has a neat little SDK. So somebody could write a plugin that says "first render this model in this pose here, then move the model over to where the second guy is supposed to be and render it over there, rinse and repeat...". I think it's called instancing. Instead of having 1,000 monsters in RAM, you just have one."

Yes the feature you are talking about is called instancing I believe. Seems to be a really useful took to have availalble to you. Here is a link that I found interesting on the subject.

• Instancing article

Re:what exactly could they do?

[black mariah]

Keep in mind that Duff's Device came around as a way to speed up an animation playback program at Lucasarts. Small optimizations make huge differences.

http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/duffs-device.html

Re:what exactly could they do?

[Lumpy]

FYI: they hadn't figured out nor written the software to do the hair on the main character in Monsters Inc until the project was more than 50% completed and they were ready to start rendering to film.

Yes, hollywood doesnt use the junk that users use... they actually get their hands dirty and dive into the process...

Dont even think that a low end app like lightwave or maya could even touch what they do at pixar.

Linux - The Choice of Evil SuperGeniuses!

[bluethundr]

OF COURSE they use Linux in Hollywood! It's the natural choice of evil supergeniuses everywhere! What's that? Still not convinced? Allow me to present exhibit 'A'!

Just to keep a balance:

[tarquin_fim_bim]

Windows In Holywood: Status Report

Oops my bad

[segment]

Wow can't believe I didn't include something about Revolution OS

The documentary Revolution OS explores the human side of the open source and free software movements, illuminating the behind-the-scenes story of the hackers and programmers rebelling against the corporate machine.

This 90-minute film begins with Richard Stallman's quest to create a free operating system. It then follows the movement through its two-decades-long evolution in interviews with Stallman, Linus Torvalds (creator of the open-source operating system Linux), Eric Raymond (author of The Cathedral and the Bazaar), Bruce Perens (author of the Open Source Definition), Brian Behlendorf (leader of the Apache Web server project), Michael Tiemann (founder of the first open source company) and Larry Augustin (founder of VA Linux Systems). Revolution OS also depicts the culture of the open source movement by documenting the Installfest parties where people can bring their computers to get free, expert Linux tech support; and the Refund Day protest marches, where Linux users demand reimbursement of the extra fees that get tacked onto the purchase price of new computers for pre-installed Microsoft applications.

Didn't even stop to think about the new Sinbad movie from Dreamworks either. Or IBM's General Parallel File System (GPFS) Sorry FYI

Linux Storms Hollywood

Linux in Hollywood a Star is Born

Alas, poor SGI

[fm6]

Anybody working at SGI (Silicon Graphics before the big rebranding) will find this story extremely discouraging. It isn't just that it talks about Linux/commodity systems taking over a market that used to be dominated by Irix/SGI systems. It's the attitude expressed in the article, which has to have been picked up from the people the reporter interviewed: SGI products are legacy technology. They don't compete with Linux based systems -- they're just something people have to hold onto unti l the corresponding Linux technology matures enough for to replace it.

The one SGI product mentioned that is moving forward is the Linux version of Maya -- and the reporter seems unaware that Maya is an SGI product! A sad outcome for a company that once dominated computer animation.

Re:Alas, poor SGI

[Anonymous Coward]

SGI bet on NT and lost. Also, both SGI and E&S had a difficult time transitioning their graphics experience into the PC market. They couldn't bring themselves to stripping their cards down to an affordable price, they lacked PC interface experience, and that market is simply more brutal than the workstation market. 3DLabs and then NVidia ate them up at the low end.

Re:Alas, poor SGI

[gmack]

SGI has been wanting to dump Irix for years with good reason.. I recall SGI making noise about going NT on Intel before finally unleashing a small army of developers on the Linux kernel to bring performance up to par for their needs.

I still have archinved posts of Linus flaming one of their enginneers for trying to mod the linux OS to improve the performance of Maya when an app change would have been more efficiant.

Make no mistake, SGI was one of the earliest backers of Linux in movie production and actively sells Linux/Intel hardware to the studios.

Re:Alas, poor SGI

[fm6]

I think your psychic powers are failing. I was working at SGI when they began the Linux drive. Which was never about replacing Irix with Linux. If it were, they'd be selling Linux for their MIPS-based system. But nobody would buy such a system: their existing MIPS users are all used to IRIX -- and MIPS systems continues to be their bread and butter.

What their Linux drive is about is selling systems based on Itanium processors. They simply decided it would be cheaper to join the Linux movement than to port Irix to the Itanium. They still sell both Irix/MIPS and Linux/Itanium systems. Neither of which Hollywood seems to have any interest in.

What your Linus story has to do with anything escapes me.

Re:Alas, poor SGI

[AJWM]

SGI bet on NT and lost.

Yep, and the guy responsible for SGI betting on NT, Rick Belluzzo, went on to head up Microsoft's internet operations. A reward for a job well done, even as SGI was tanking?

Re:Alas, poor SGI

[gmack]

Sure, we can start with a complaint by Linus about optimising for benchmarks Then we can move onto Linus' rant on how a feature SGI wanted breaks the beauty and design of Linux Followed by An appology from one of the devalopers for submitting the patch in question

We are all in the same situation...

[Futurepower(R)]

From the Slashdot story: "... it's insurance -- insurance that they can do so if they must to meet a production deadline."

In actuality, we are all in the same situation, not just movie studios. We all need insurance that the software we use won't become useless to us because of decisions by companies over which we have no control. Open source is necessary insurance, not optional.

SGI

[rf0]

Well least they make a passing mention of the once great SGI hardware. T2 seemed to be the peaks and its been a bit downhill from there on it. However nice to see linux make inroads into the render farms. I have to wondered if however faster inter-connects would be needed between the nodes?

Is gigabit network really fast enough or would something even higher be needed?

Rus

if only state government...

[tokengeekgrrl]

...could see that if Hollywood, which invests millions of dollars into movies and technology, uses Linux for performance-intensive digital animation rendering and authoring, then it is most likely robust and stable enough to handle government database applications (which are not all that complex).

I thought IBM embracing Linux would be enough to convince them that it should be considered but it wasn't. Maybe this will open their minds to the possibility a bit, especially given the huge cost-savings moving to Linux brings. With all the budget cuts, you'd think they'd be demanding we atleast look into Linux and run some pilot programs. Then again, 3 years ago it took them a while tp "be okay" with using Apache web server instead of Netscape Enterprise. Whatever.

- tokengeekgrrl

Linux on artist desktops too?

[NanoGator]

"Linux has won not only renderfarm servers, but the artist desktops of the top studios."

Well, that startled me to a degree. A good chunk of the artists out there doing 3D stuff need Photoshop. What are they using in its place? (or do they have a Mac room running Photoshop elsewhere?)

Re:Linux on artist desktops too?

[Lumpy]

why do they need photoshop?

CMYK seperation? no.. they are not going to print it.

photoshop only has a tight grip on specalized tools that are pretty much useless for the movie-making aspect.

(rotoscoping in photoshop is a major PAIN IN THE ARSE! film-gimp it's damned easy.... I am never using photoshop for anything but making simple graphics for after-effects.

now THAT is an app that has no equal in the entire world... (Ok Commotion for the avid is better)

we can make linux take over video and movie production by simply coming up with decent replacement for aftereffects and a video editing app that isnt very early alpha,unuseable, unstable... (cinderella, mainactor)

I'd pay $500.00 for a video editing app the caliber of premiere 4.0 but can handle DV2...that run's natively on linux (No java, no wine tricks..)

Re:Linux on artist desktops too?

[spitzak]

Suprisingly little is done in photoshop. We usually use Macs for it.

Re:Linux on artist desktops too?

[ChaosDiscord]

A good chunk of the artists out there doing 3D stuff need Photoshop. What are they using in its place? (or do they have a Mac room running Photoshop elsewhere?)

Well, I found the following information in an article online. You might have stumbled across it before, although it wasn't widely announced.

Disney funded Linux developer CodeWeavers to make the CrossOver emulator run Windows Adobe Photoshop 7 on Linux -- without Windows.

and

Deep paint, with more than 8 bits per channel of color depth, is necessary to support the higher dynamic range of film. Could the Hollywood market support a commercial deep paint tool tailored to motion picture production? Considering the small market niche, studio technologists didn't think so.

Hollywood came up with a novel solution. What if the popular Linux open-source GIMP program was enhanced for motion picture work? Although the industry couldn't justify developing a deep paint program from scratch, it could support a few open-source programmers to make a deep GIMP.

...

Film Gimp was subsequently used by Rhythm & Hues for Scooby-Doo, Dr. Dolittle 2, and Planet of the Apes. Sony Pictures Imageworks picked up Film Gimp for use in Stuart Little 2. Hammerhead Productions used it in Showtime, Blue Crush, and 2 Fast 2 Furious.

HTH. HAND.

if ILM increased the renderfarm to 800 or 1k boxes

[The Lynxpro]

"More than 350 Linux boxes were deployed during Episode II," says ILM production engineering manager Ken Beyer. Six hundred Linux desktops will be used for Star Wars: Episode III to be released summer 2005.

So if ILM were to increase the number of Linux boxes devoted to Episode III from 600 to 800 or 1,000 boxes, would their rendering power be enough to improve Natalie Portman's (so-far) cardboard performance(s)?

Access to the Source?

[hondo77]

As a rule, no major studio will rely on a tool without access to the source code. The risk is too great.

Did the source code to Maya suddenly become available?

Funny use of the word rule

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

As a rule, no major studio will rely on a tool without access to the source code.

This is so completely false it's unbelievable. Studios use software such as Renderman, Maya, Filmbox, Mental Ray, RealFlow, Photomodeler, 3D Equalizer, Softimage, Photoshop and Shake all without access to the source. And they rely on these packages. They also rely on OSes such as Irix (still!) and Windows for which they have no source. This statement isn't even a 'stretch' of the word 'rule'. It's just plain false.

Re:Funny use of the word rule

[wbattestilli]

Disclaimer I work for Alias and I do custom development for major film studios but I do not speak for them.

Just to clarify the above post. Alias does not give any customer access to the Maya source code. Many major studios do, however, pay us to develop certain features that they require.

This service is available to any customer. For those interested, feel free to contact me directly.

--
Whitney Battestilli
Software Engineer
Alias
wbattestilli at aw.sgi.com

Re:Funny use of the word rule

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Because the department I run would be using that software if we had access to it. Even in our closest vendor/client relationship we do not have access to the source code (though in some cases we may have escrow arrangements to deal with a vendor's bankruptcy) and we are a major effects house backed by one of the largest studios.

Take one example, Alias|Wavefront. We have a dedicated developer from them who has helped with writing plugins in house as well as making some small tweaks to our custom version of Maya. But we do not get to look at the source code at all under any circumstances.

Re:if ILM increased the renderfarm to 800 or 1k bo

[fpp]

Congratulations, your post just fulfilled Skinner's Law:

"As a geek usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a poster complaining about how much the Star Wars sequels suck approaches one.

RTFA, Bunky

[foandd]

He plainly states in the article that the studios make special deals to have access to the source code for the commercial software they use, often at very high expense.

Discreet launched first Linux online editor

[StandardCell]

Note: I submitted this as a news story, and I believe it was major Linux-related news but it was rejected. Fortunately it's still relatively fresh and this a good topic to repeat it in. It clearly demonstrates that Linux is an excellent platform for editors in the broadcast field.

From this link:

Discreet Launches First High-End Online Editing System for the Linux Operating System Press Release -- Discreet

Debuts smoke 6 Standard Definition Online Editing and Finishing System Page 1 of 1

MONTREAL (Sep. 04, 2003) -- Discreet announced the high-end non-linear editing and finishing system for the Linux operating system, smoke 6. The addition of Linux workstation support in the version 6 release, combined with new pricing, will significantly extend Discreet's market for smoke; ensuring its accessibility to broadcasters and a new segment of mid-range post-production facilities. Discreet will debut both Linux and Irix versions of smoke 6 at the International Broadcasting Convention in Amsterdam, The Netherlands (booth 7.421) from September 12-16, 2003.

With more than seven years of leadership in online editing, smoke will be one of the most sophisticated digital media applications ever released on the Linux operating system. The performance of today's PC workstations combined with newly enhanced capabilities of the Linux operating system enables robust support for the rigorous editing and finishing performance demands of smoke. smoke 6 on Linux is a standard definition (SD) editing system designed to work with Red Hat Linux 8 and will ship as a turnkey solution on IBM's high-performance IntelliStation Z Pro 6221 workstation.

or...

[mnemonic_]

or the source code of Softimage, Lightwave, 3ds max, Photoshop, After Effects, Flame, Inferno, Houdini, Avid etc.?

Nope, none of them are open source, and each is used by at least one major studio. And if by "access to the source code" assumes monetary compensation in exchange, then by that definition pretty much every piece of software has accessible source code.

Speed improvements

[mnemonic_]

"Back at ILM, sequence supervisor Robert Weaver noticed a tremendous performance boost upgrading from RISC workstations to Linux PCs during Star Wars: Episode II. 'The old system was so slow that the clones firing lasers appear to be throwing javelins,' says Weaver. 'We've seen about a 5x speed improvement in Linux. I'd say Linux is one of the most successful efforts we've had. I can't say enough good things about it. It is intuitive, incredibly stable, and we can get stuff fixed at a moment's notice.'"

In other words, they were using now incredibly slow SGI boxes with RISC MIPS processors before and then switched to much faster PC's with x86 processors. The speed difference was caused not only by software but also hardware changes.

Yep: Optimize to a specific type of scene

[danlyke]

As an ex member of Pixar's Graphics R&D group: Yep, exactly that happens. Often times a scene will have some sort of issue that you otherwise wouldn't see, texture memory access patterns, whatever.

There's nothing like having a real world test case to get those optimization neurons working.

New features happen in the slack time, making them work fast happens when the production deadline is fast approaching.

Re:Yep: Optimize to a specific type of scene

[AJWM]

Often times a scene will have some sort of issue that you otherwise wouldn't see,

Remember the "Genesis planet" sequence from Star Trek - The Wrath of Kahn? Dates back about 20 years. Obvious CG -- it was supposed to be -- animation of a planet coalescing, mountains rising, etc as the POV swept in and across the surface. Just one problem, the damn mountain range kept rising right into the flight path. They ended up hacking the software so that a canyon opens up just as the POV gets to the mountain range and can fly through it.

That much I can confirm from watching the video. What I can't confirm, that the ILM programmer who told this story to me said, is that carved onto the canyon walls is (are?) the name(s) of the programmer(s) who did that hack. (Too blurred in the video).

What about the G5

[benwaggoner]

Based on the article, it seems like Apple's new G5 systems would almost be a better fix for Linux for a lot of this stuff. SGI was too slow, and Windows too different an API to port. Mac OS X lets you run all the Adobe stuff natively, a real UNIX underneath for porting, and with the G5, a processor fast enough to get in the ballpark of x86 for price/performance. As the article mentioned, Shake on Mac is so much cheaper, you basically get the Mac for free!

The new Photoshop CS announced yesterday definitely has the deep paint (and non square pixel support!) required to make it a great film/video app for a lot of stuff.

The one big barrier I see is a complete port of Maya (Maya Complete not being complete, of course).

*NIX to OS X porting will get a lot easier with 10.3 (out within 30 days?), which has X11 built-in, and a lot more Linux-like API stuff.

Re:Hipocrits

[malducin]

You neglect the fact that "Hollywood" is a big heterogenous machinery. Movie studios (Disney, Universal, Fox, etc.) are the members of the MPAA. VFX studios (ILM, Imageworks, Digital Domain, Weta, Tippett, Rhythm and Hues, Cinesite, Framestore/CFC, etc.) work for Hollywood by providing a service. They are not more than contractors, not much unlike the catering company, or even say you plumber. VFX studios are not members of the MPAA and have no say on projects or policies.

Re:Poor SGI my ass...

[fm6]

First of all, you're reading too much into what I said when you assume that I'm defending SGI's mistakes. Perhaps you don't know the literary reference behind "Alas"?

Second, your notions of how the movie biz works are pretty naive. Is your idea of an "Indie studio" a bunch of film geeks scraping together a few thou to make a bad horror movie? Real film making is expensive. Nowadays a "low budget" movie costs a minimum of $3 million to make. And the studios mentioned in the article spend more than that on catering!

Yeah, they can save some money buying open source applications instead of Maya. Probably not that much. I suspect that they probably buy whatever makes their animators most productive. The salaries they pay those guys dwarfs any sum they might spend on animation software.

Of course, open-source apps may have an edge if they need a feature they can't find in any closed-source app: they can just hire somebody to write the feature in. Of course, that makes the open-source app much more expensive! I don't know how often this happens, but I'm inclined to believe that most studios use a mixture of open and closed source applications.

Anyway, this isn't about applications, this is about the platform: Linux, running on commodity computers. This trend is happening not because Linux is a little cheaper than Irix. It's happening because commdity computers are a lot cheaper, crunch for crunch, then RISC computers. Commodity computers are less powerful, but with current clustering technology, you can just throw more processors at a problem and still spend less money.