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Senator Seeks Restrictions to Music Laws, Fines

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the enough-is-enough dept.

Justen writes "Following this article from last month, Senator Norm Coleman (R.-Minn.) has announced that he will seek to limit federal penalties for copyright downloads and seek to restrict the subpoena power essentially granted to the industry through the DMCA. The RIAA responded by calling the current situation an 'epidemic.'" Sadly, there's no quantitative values for proposed reduced measures yet, but given the speed at which government moves it's reassuring to know the issue is this far along already.

43 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. The pieces are moving..... by TheWart · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As Gandalf said, "The pieces are moving...", and there is nothing that can stop them.

    It will be interesting to see where all of thsi goes...the RIAA making music sharers into Robin Hoods', one senator (Hatch) saying that mp3 sharing is eqaul to shoplifting, and this guy saying he wants to limit the DMCA.

    Interesting times ahead....

  2. But... by Raul654 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...since when has Orrin Hatch been anything but extremist in *any* of his views?

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
  3. Party... by Davak · · Score: 2, Informative

    Awwwhhh... it had to be a Republician to come out with this. I sure wanted to claim this one for our team.

    Makes you wonder if some college kid called his dad in government and said, "You know, Dad, it would kick ass if you would stomp some RIAA ass for us."

    Honestly though, appropriate fines is much, much more likely to be honestly viewed as part of the "solution" to the "problem." The current over-the-top fees are simple scare tactics.

    Honest, appropriate fees are much more likely to protect the copyright owner.

    Davak

    1. Re:Party... by Stonent1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      " Awwwhhh... it had to be a Republician to come out with this. I sure wanted to claim this one for our team."

      And which team might that be?

    2. Re:Party... by errxn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Our team"? Since when do you decide what "team" the members of the /. community belong to?

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
    3. Re:Party... by general_re · · Score: 5, Funny
      And which team might that be?

      My guess is that he's talking about the team that claims Senator Fritz Hollings (D-Disney), and therefore gave you this mess in the first place ;)

      --
      ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
    4. Re:Party... by varda222 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, MArk Dayton is Minnesota's other senator, and he is a Democrat. Rod Grams is a former Minnesota senator.

    5. Re:Party... by tempest303 · · Score: 2, Informative

      But Fritz DIDN'T give us this. Mr. Howard Coble, a Republican, sponsored the DMCA. And Sonny Bono, a Republican, enacted the (you'd never guess) Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act.

      For further demonstration, observe the sponsors and voting record of the DMCA:

      (source)

      Sponsor: Howard Coble - http://www.house.gov/coble/ - Republican

      Co-sponsors:

      • Howard L. Berman - http://www.house.gov/berman/ - Democrat
      • John Conyers - http://www.house.gov/conyers/ - Democrat
      • Barney Frank - http://www.house.gov/frank/ - Democrat
      • Mary Bono - http://www.house.gov/bono/ - Republican
      • Henry Hyde - http://www.house.gov/hyde/ - Republican
      • Bill McCollum - http://www.issues2000.org/FL/Bill_McCollum.htm - Republican
      • Bill Paxon - http://www.issues2000.org/NY/Bill_Paxon.htm - Republican
      • Chip Pickering - http://www.house.gov/pickering/ - Republican
      • Sonny Bono - (no official page, sorry - a google search will reveal that he was also a Republican) - Republican

      (Please excuse the Issues2000 links - I wanted to use 100% official pages, but not all of the sponsors of the DMCA are still in their offices.)

      So, that puts the "score" at Democrats: 3, Republicans: 7

      When it comes to voting, the Senate was 99-0 in favor of it, which speaks badly for both parties, though I must still point out that the Republicans had the majority at the time, thus further proving that again, they are no less culpable, if not more. I regret I cannot tell you what the House had to say about this bill, but I'd be willing to bet that the percentages of Democrats and Republicans in favor of this bill is about equal in the House, too.

      Once again this proves that you must think for yourself rather than just believing rumor or stereotype as fact.

      --
      The Free desktop that Just Works
    6. Re:Party... by general_re · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, my only point was to illustrate the absurdity of pinning blame for the current scheme on any particular "team", or to rely on another "team" to fix it. There are plenty of unclean hands on both sides of the aisle, and the only way to fix it is for people to put pressure on their own individual representatives.

      --
      ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
  4. giant sucking sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    dude's from minnesota.... he's obviously worried about losing all those lucrative file-sharing jobs to canada...

  5. Huh by ProfKyne · · Score: 5, Funny

    Senator Norm Coleman (R.-Minn.) has announced that he will seek to limit federal penalties for copyright downloads

    I didn't realize there were federal penalties for downloading copyrights.

    --
    "First you gotta do the truffle shuffle."
  6. "The RIAA responded by calling the current ... by bsDaemon · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...an epidemic." Yes, the Centre for Disease Control should help stem the tide of this subpeona plague.

  7. A good thing by rokka · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's nice to see that there is at least one person left who belives that the fines should reflect the crimes commited and not reflect how much the riiia wants to scare people.

    --
    I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...
  8. GOP surprises me on this issue by astrashe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Putting aside what this guy is doing, I've always been a little surprised that the GOP doesn't side with downloaders on the P2P issue. I think that the fact that they don't shows that they have a very real committment to property rights, and that they don't want to compromise that for political expediency. In that sense, I think it's fairly admirable.

    Because on the other hand, Hollywood is one of the main sources of support for the Democrats. The Democrats raise tons of money out there, and movie stars and other prominent Hollywood types are almost all Democratic.

    P2P represents an almost ideal way for the Republicans to extract revenge on Hollywood, to "cut off their air supply." But there's almost no support at all for doing that within the party.

    I know it will rub a lot of people the wrong way to say that it's possible to interpret protecting the property rights of international corporations as a principled position, but I think that's what's going on.

    I sort of wish they wouldn't, though...

    1. Re:GOP surprises me on this issue by astrashe · · Score: 2, Informative

      It will come... Hollywood is sitting back and letting the RIAA expiriment with different tactics, because they have a little more time, the problem isn't so severe for them yet. But they're very afraid of what's going to happen.

      I doubt they'll be satisfied to stick with the anti-piracy messages they show before movies now.

    2. Re:GOP surprises me on this issue by snarkh · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is no doubt they are shaking in their boots. However there are two main reasons why they can afford to wait a bit:
      1. Movies are rather difficult to download. Relatively few people have the bandwith.
      2. Movies make most of their money from the theaters. P2P is not a threat to that.

    3. Re:GOP surprises me on this issue by spiritraveller · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Hollywood is one of the main sources of support for the Democrats. The Democrats raise tons of money out there, and movie stars and other prominent Hollywood types are almost all Democratic.

      Movie stars do not equal the MPAA or the RIAA. Those two organizations represent the studios and the record companies. Those businesses are not owned by "the movie stars" but by people who want to make money by selling other people's art.

      If I had to generalize as you are doing, I would say that people who make money off of the creativity of others tend to be Republican.

  9. Crap by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 2, Funny


    It was so easy to hate Normy....now I might actually have to eat some crow with my Republican friends and think about giving him a vote next time ....grrr

    --
    Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    1. Re:Crap by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah,
      Weird part is I have written all of my congress critters, even left my name with Sen Dayton's people as a volunteer when he was looking at spam legislation, Normy is the only one who ever wrote back. :/

      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
  10. Not always slow. by LinuxInDallas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The gov't isn't ALWAYS slow. Look at how quickly they passed legislation for the do-not-call list. If 50 million people sent letters/emails to their congressmen and told them to overturn the DMCA it would be history!

    1. Re:Not always slow. by theunforgiv3n · · Score: 4, Funny

      Better yet we should have 50 million people send custom mix cds to thier congressmen houses. Just imagine. 50 million cds with Britney spears and Nelly Hits of the hour. We could not only get the DMCA revoked but the bad aritists revoked too

  11. Only makes sense by release7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me, copyright laws were written with publisher in mind. The high penalties prevent a company like Random House from lifting a work from McGraw Hill and selling and distributing the books. Fining a 15 year-old $100,000 for sharing the latest Limp Bizkit single is just a little out of whack. The "crime" doesn't fit the punishment.

    --

    <a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>

    1. Re:Only makes sense by bmwm3nut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you are mostly correct. Say sony did steal a song from EMI and distribute it, they should be fined $100K or $150K or whatever the current law it. But if sony "stole" 100 songs from EMI and only distributed one of them, they should still only be fined the $100K or so.

      If billy steals 1000 songs from P2P but distributes none, he should not be fined. But if billy steals 1000 songs from P2P and distributes them, he should be fined for the number of songs he distributes.

      I think the laws were written to prevent the distribution of material. The person on the receiving end should not be fined, it should be the distributer. Even in the P2P world, the distributer and receiver are easily defined.

    2. Re: Only makes sense by gidds · · Score: 4, Interesting
      But with the internet, everyone can be a publisher.

      Exactly! I know it's been said before, but this is the heart of the problem. Everyone can be a publisher. It's the reason why the internet is such a disruptive technology, such a force for change.

      It's also a situation, as you say, that existing precepts, principles, and prejudices simply weren't designed for.

      And it's a situation which challenges the power and the very existence of the large publishing organisations (whether in print, film, music, or whatever). No wonder they're doing all they can to prevent it:

      • using the might of existing laws in totally inappropriate ways,
      • promoting DRM schemes which will prevent individuals and smaller companies from being able to publish works themselves, and
      • subtly spreading the idea that only large corporations can be legitimate publishers, effectively dividing the world into 'corporates' and 'consumers', and keeping the latter in their place.

      Of course, some of these actions have additional effects, e.g. DRM controlling access to the works which do get published. But I suspect that in the long term, it's this preventing-Joe-Public-from-being-a-publisher aspect which will prove to be the important one.

      Technology is breaking down the exclusivity of so many means of creation and publishing - the desktop publishing revolution brought some of the power of the great publishing houses to the individual, and similar advances have brought some of the power of the recording studios, radio networks, photographic workshops, post offices, movie studios, sheet music publishers, news networks, &c. Not all the power, of course - there's no substitute for artistic talent and creativity in any sphere, and these advances tend to promote the spread of mediocre more than outstanding work.

      It's sad to see the hatred and bitterness with which these advances are being treated by existing publishers, because I don't think they're as threatened as they think. People will still want good music, good books, good movies, &c, and there will still be money to be made providing them. It might not be with the exact same business model, or in the same form, but I'm sure sooner or later something will get sorted out. In the end, it's only the publishers of mediocre, worthless material who need fear. Which perhaps explains the current situation rather well...

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

  12. gone overboard by potpie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The RIAA is going overboard with their subpoenas... $150000 per song??? They're blaming something for their economic woes (and i've seen the statistics- they don't have many) that can make them more money when they exploit it. It's no different than when they claimed home radio taping was killing music in the 80's. Hmmm... they seemed to have survived that, didn't they?

    --
    Esoteric reference.
  13. Epidemic by tarnin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Intresting wording here. Looks like the RIAA is trying to pull the same stunt as VeriSign, make themselves out to be the underdog here. They have some huge public relations control to do here after suing the 12yr old (ya ya it was the parents but in the news, it was a 12yr old) and that old lady on a mac. Both made local news and gave the RIAA a very black eye to the every day citizen who has had nothing but info from the RIAA camp.

    One thing about the mass suing by the RIAA though, I kind of wish it had more of an impact in the court systems. I was hopeing that they would have tried to sue someone very wealthy who didn't want to settle out of court and bring it up in the public eye and allow the DMCA to finally be challanged all the way though. As of now the RIAA is banking on the fact that the people they are suing will just setting and this will never see the light of day in any court room. Atleast it feels like that from the people that they have been suing. This type of situation is a win win for them. They get money, they set a court presidence, and they frighten people all by just sending out a letter.

    One good thing is that some companies, like verizon, are still making a stand against their requests to fork over users. While they have ordered by the courst to hand over people so far, they are still fighting it and for that we have some hope that this mess of a law may soon be challanged and maybe, just maybe, finally thrown out.

  14. Re:Hmmmm by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Politicians survive by persuading the public to re-elect them. The RIAA has made a really good job recently of persuading politicians that most of there electorate are file sharers.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  15. Re:A nice thought but a little naive by HBI · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While you are right in essence, you fail to trace the reason why. Most Republicans support business not out of idealism but expediency. If business does well, the argument goes, the economy will fare well, people will have jobs, etc. Also, we will remain in our current role as the dominant economy in the world.

    Your average Republican will point at the Euro zone and show what we would become if we started making exceptions for file downloaders and such. Anemic economic performance is the perceived detriment.

    There are flaws in this argument, but that's not the point right now.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  16. Don't curse the darkness, Light a candle by Crashmarik · · Score: 3, Informative

    Write your own senators and congressperson.

    Heres a link to a pre done letter off the citizens against government waste site

    Write your reps

  17. Re:Hmmmm by Hatta · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps, he too has a 12 year old daughter?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  18. Re:Finally something sensibe from our politicians by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't go blindly support this guy.

    He doesn't state what the fines should be. They are $750 - 150 000 right now. What if he, through back room dealing and lobbying, it gets down to $500 - 75 000? A dramatic decrease but still you might think that its way too high. (i.e. still can wipe out the savings of a college student)

    There are just too little details to go on to get all excited.

    --
    The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
  19. Honestly. by JayBlalock · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It sounds like this is just a rare case of a Senator these days recognizing that "let a corporation do whatever it wants" is NOT a good idea. The RIAA's campaign started off bad, and keeps getting worse. Anyone with a shred of sense can see that - piracy aside - their business model is quickly becoming unsustainable. Yet they don't seem to recognize this, at least not publically, and their insistance that it's 100% because of piracy suggests they are profoundly out of touch with the real world.

    It also suggests that at this point, they've become so entrenched in this mindset that they probably WOULD happily start suing more and more people, the more their sales start to slide. Which, I personally think represents one of the most profound perversions of our economic principles imaginable. Did anyone else who bought something from Magnatunes in the last week stop to think, gee, I probably just sent another subpoena to some grandmother in NYC? That's virtually how bad the situation has gotten, and a logical conclusion that can be drawn from their quixotic belief that ALL their sales problems are from piracy. It boils down to, "Buy our stuff or we sue you."

    Since the government can't act DIRECTLY to stop them (well, it could, but it won't) the best thing they could do is seek to limit the RIAA's power to weild lawsuits. If you eliminate the chance of them profitting from this (the fines would be less than the lawyers' fees), and make sure no one suddenly wakes up to discover a quarter-million lawsuit in their mailbox, then the RIAA might just be forced to face reality.

    (WHY the RIAA is taking this stance is another issue altogether. I personally think it's a snowball, once they started trying to convince their shareholders that their problems were due to piracy, it took on a life of its own)

    --
    Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
  20. Speed by cybermage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sadly, there's no quantitative values for proposed reduced measures yet, but given the speed at which government moves it's reassuring to know the issue is this far along already.

    Well, we've seen Congress demonstrate that they can act quickly if they want to. The Do-Not-Call thing went through in something like 2 days. I'd read someplace that there are more people downloading music than on the do-not-call list (admittedly not all americans,) so quick action is required :)

    Even further off topic, but wasn't it a mistake to demonstrate that they could pass a bill that fast. I'd think the press would have a field day the next time something takes forever.

    --
    Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
  21. Protection of citizens rights an 'epedemic'? by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Its Sad.

    Its too bad the general public doesnt have a clue about what is going on.

    Eventually it will effect them, but by then it will be too late.

    Its not just with the music indstustry, its under attack from all sides.. both private industry and goverment..

    At least we can tell our grandchildren how we used to be free. Assuming that remains permitted speech of course.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  22. Re:This is good and all, but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    It's coming, but we only have a few guys on our side.


    Sen. Coleman (the man in the article) and Sen. Sununu, both Republicans, are our friends here. Very good friends. They hosted a panel the other week, one with pro-RIAA/MPAA people (Jack Valenti, RIAA CEO, LL Cool J, a few others) and heard their case, then they heard the case from Chuck D, a lady sued by the RIAA, the CEO of Sharman, and a couple of others. While the second panel didn't go as well (they need to get their shit together, bad, especially the Sharman man! He acted like a child), they DID listen to them and they said the same things we say here on Slashdot.

    However, there are enemies: a lot of these Senators are side with the RIAA blindly, and left the room when the anti-RIAA panel came in. They didn't want to hear it. Chuck D even cracked a joke about the smaller audience.

    BTW, I caught this all on C-SPAN.

  23. What's his opinion on circumvention? by Nucleon500 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apparently Coleman doesn't like outrageous fines or the complete lack of due process the DMCA lets the RIAA get away with. That's good, but he could go further. What are his opinions on the circumvention clauses, the ones which make DeCSS code illegal to use, possess, or even discuss? And are there any other evil parts of the DMCA I'm overlooking? It would be really cool if Coleman's proposal morphed into some kind of DMCA reform, or even totally neutered it.

    --
    Litigious bastards
  24. Perhaps... by Emperor+Tiberius · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Perhaps, the good ol' senator has realized that the average American citizen is not only unable, but often incapable of paying some of the RIAA's "figures." Hell, the court system in this country is one that allows a burglar to break into a home, get injured, and sue the homeowner for hundreds of thousands of dollars, because it was their home.

    Give me a break!

  25. The problem is not the law itself by voss · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is that the law is disproportionate to the losses suffered.

    The founding fathers who designed the Copyright law always intended to punish those who copied for profit more than those who copied for personal use or distribution for friends...yet that distinction was removed. That should be put back.

    There should be a cap on fines for copying that does not involve distribution for profit. IF we cannot have some sort of compulsory licensing ,at least we can have some sanity with the laws we do have.

  26. they're not worth the effort by nFriedly · · Score: 3, Funny

    People should stop calling them "the RIAA" because they aren't worth the time and effort it takes to type the word "the" or to hold down the shift key Instead just call them riaa.

    --
    Nathan Friedly
  27. Norm Coleman Story :) by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Funny
    Back when Norm was mayor of St. Paul I played a private Halloween show in NE Minneapolis for some design company. Norm happened to show up, and walked around pressing the flesh.

    Being that this was a design company, everyone was in costume and very good ones at that. There were some Darth Mauls, some Ghostbuster guys with lighted 'Proton Packs' and of course several 'The Artist formerly Known as Prince'-es, Purple Rain era.

    Norm was walking around and stopped at the refreshment table. I walked up to him, shook his hand and said, "That's the best Norm Coleman costume I've ever seen. Good job."

    His smile faltered for a moment, then he replied, "uh...Thanks.."

    First time I've ever seen a politician run out of stuff to say.

  28. So, what are you going to do about it? by werdna · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If that's all you are doing "waiting," then you will do a lot more waiting. Put together good, sound reasons, and lobby actively or support those who are lobbying -- until then, no Senator has any reason to do that.

    Realistically, Senators will vote for or against a bill for one of two reasons: (i) they think it will get them elected; or (ii) they think it will get them votes for another bill whose passage will get them elected.

    Until you start providing (i) or (ii), your hopes are going to remain just that: hopes.

  29. Potential fines are totally out of whack by Solandri · · Score: 2, Insightful

    RIAA revenues in 2001: $13.7 billion RIAA new releases in 2001: about 27,000 Figure 10 songs per release avg $13,700,000,000 / 27,000 / 10 = avg $50,700 revenue per song So the way the law is written right now, a song being pirated just once is worth three times more than it is on the free market.

  30. Interesting... by Solokron · · Score: 2, Funny

    Following this article from last month, Senator Norm Coleman (R.-Minn.) has announced that he will seek to limit federal penalties for copyright downloads and seek to restrict the subpoena power essentially granted to the industry through the DMCA.

    On another note, Gary Coleman has announced the he simlpy seeks attention.

    --
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