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Could Isaac Newton Get a Faculty Job?

An anonymous reader writes "Could Isaac Newton get a faculty job, or is modern society too intolerant of eccentricity? That's one of the questions that Glenn Reynolds asks Neal Stephenson in this interview over at TechCentralstation. Others involve the changing nature of fame in an age of fragmented media, the role of the Seventeenth Century in shaping the modern world, and what it's like to write a book with a fountain pen, in the twenty-first century."

35 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. Maybe by AlxRogan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think he could get a job, but if he already had one, he could definetely get tenure.

  2. Assholes abound by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Funny

    Newton is rumored to have been an uber-asshole. An asshole among assholes. His main trait wasn't that he was eccentric, it was that he was an asshole to each and everyone he met.

    It depends on the university and the department chair, but I'm willing to bet that you can find assholes in faculty at any given university.

    So yes, Isaac Newton could probably have been hired on despite his assholeness.

    1. Re:Assholes abound by orthogonal · · Score: 3, Informative

      Now that I think about it.. didn't Newton have a job at Cambridge too?

      I'm assuming you're joking; I'm also assuming some /.ers won't get it.

      Yeah, he had an insignificant little job, sorta equivalent to a modern "Dorm Mother": he was the second Lucasian Chair of Mathematics.

      Hell, they give that wheelchair guy a job and he's hanging out with strippers all the time. I'd say Hawking's pretty eccentric.

      Stephen Hawking, of course, is the current Lucasian Chair.

    2. Re:Assholes abound by le_jfs · · Score: 3, Funny

      Stephen Hawking, of course, is the current Lucasian Chair.

      I would say he has the current Lucasian wheelchair of Mathematics.

      (before you mod me down, I am only joking)

      --
      main(char O){O++&&(((O-291)*O+27788)*O-868020?1:putchar(O++) )&&main(O);}
    3. Re:Assholes abound by Transient0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      two things:

      firstly, bipolar disorder isn't genetic as far as we can tell.

      secondly: we have enough trouble successfully diagnosing that condition today with biographers trying to retroactively diagnose dead people with it.

  3. Probably not by dr_dank · · Score: 4, Funny

    The spectre of lawsuits arising from apples to the head would be enough to turn Sir Issac away at the door.

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  4. If he was born today by duffbeer703 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His eccentricity would no doubt have been diagnosed as ADD or ADHD. He would have been drugged with narcotics and told to behave himself.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    1. Re:If he was born today by eidechse · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're probably right. My father-in-law, a psychologist, was reading about various historical smart people and thought the descriptions of their personalities/habits sounded consistent with people diagnosed as ADD/ADHD.

    2. Re:If he was born today by 11223 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not about authoritarianism, you blasted postmodernist. It's about whether or not gifted people actually have an attention deficit, which they clearly do not. They just think faster. See this paper for more serious information about misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis for gifted (in particular ADHD, ODD, and OCD), and why it happens.

  5. Interview by cubicledrone · · Score: 3, Funny

    The HR blimp would call him "overqualified" and middle management would ignore him because his agency told him to "put his education last."

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  6. Not just scientists by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't just science. How many major computer companies were founded by people who never even finished college? Dell, Microsoft, Apple, and so on, these are all companies that would never hire their own founders considering them unqualified. I'm reasonably certain that this problem persists in other industries as well.

    1. Re:Not just scientists by Aadain2001 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We need a 10, RightOnTheMoney score for this post. I've watched over the past 5 years as requirements for just getting in the door have been increased faster than a NY stock exchange trader's blood pressure. Education is very important, but so is other traits. The more I hear about how companies "filter" people out, them more I want to form my own company. They don't "filter" a person because they aren't qualified. I've been told that if you don't have a 3.0 in college, you shouldn't show it off. But if you have a high GPA, like 3.7, 3.8, etc, then you had better show that are "well rounded" as well or else they won't want you! What BS is that?!?!?! I can be too good?!?! Do they think that only 1% of all graduates are good enough for their companies and the other 99% should be cutting hair or picking up trash?!?!?! Bah, I'm getting tired of this crap.

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    2. Re:Not just scientists by Evil+Adrian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Education is very important, but so is other traits.

      Like the ability to properly conjugate "to be"!

      I've been told that if you don't have a 3.0 in college, you shouldn't show it off. But if you have a high GPA, like 3.7, 3.8, etc, then you had better show that are "well rounded" as well or else they won't want you! What BS is that?!?!?! I can be too good?!?! Do they think that only 1% of all graduates are good enough for their companies and the other 99% should be cutting hair or picking up trash?!?!?! Bah, I'm getting tired of this crap.

      A college degree, first and foremost, shows a willingness and dedication to bettering yourself, and to stick with something. It shows that you were willing to take at least 2-3 years to stick with something and educate yourself. That drive sets you apart from people that said "fuck it" when they could have hit the books.

      A GPA less than 3.0 is average. You don't accentuate the average on a resume. You want to show what sets you apart from other people, so that's why you don't show a low GPA on a resume.

      And well-rounded is important, too -- do you want to hire some "genius" with a 4.0 GPA that can't even communicate effictively with other human beings?

      Besides that, resumes aren't what get you hired -- interviews are. Resumes are used to get the company interested, you basically show what sets you apart from everyone else. Then they bring you in to see if you're what they're looking for.

      And honestly, so what if companies want the top 1% of graduates? If I ran my own company, I'd be trying to hire the best of the best. GPA isn't one of my criteria, but if that's someone else's, that's their prerogative.

      It isn't helpful to get upset about hiring criteria; these companies are just trying to find excellent employees. You need to figure out why you are excellent, and show that to those companies in your resume.

      --
      evil adrian
    3. Re:Not just scientists by Elbow+Macaroni · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yeah I've seen the kind of people who get hired this way. People who can put on a great show, and once hired turn out to be turkeys who don't do anything, but the boss sure does love them! They should all be receptionists if you ask me.

      I think if I'm getting hired for a job and I can communicate effectively that should be the basis I am hired for, not for if I give a great interview. An interview should not be a social occasion.

      And if a genius with a 4.0 can't communicate effectively with other human beings, then he or she must have had some head trauma because you can't pass classes without communicating with your instructor via testing. A 4.0 says "I can communicate well by doing the work". Isn't that what you are hiring after all is a worker and not a new fishing buddy?

      --
      -------------------------------------
      Technically, we are beyond survival.
    4. Re:Not just scientists by Aadain2001 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But most (if not ALL) modern university programs in technology require a lot of group projects, where individuals do get scored on performance in group settings. You can't get high grades if you can't perform well in groups. I know that at my university you can't even graduate unless you perform well on a group based senior design project. So, those 4.0 students MUST work well in groups, else they would be closer to 3.0 or 2.5.

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    5. Re:Not just scientists by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Interesting

      . How many major computer companies were founded by people who never even finished college? Dell, Microsoft, Apple, and so on, these are all companies that would never hire their own founders considering them unqualified.

      I think the key word there is "hire". When you are hiring somebody, you are looking for some credentials to demonstrate that you aren't wasting your time/money hiring this person.

      A founder, howeever, only has to convince himself he/she has the credentials. In all my years operating as a consultant in various capacities, I've never been seriously asked about my credentials. I've only been asked about expenses and timelines.

      An interesting side-effect of being a consultant is that when your bid is accepted, you skip all the chains of command in most organizations and usually fit in somewheres near the top in the organizational heirarchy. In other words, people don't give you lip.

      Contrary to popular belief, you do not need a college degree to be successful in the IT sector. You just won't do it with a "job"....

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  7. Biography by breon.halling · · Score: 4, Informative

    If anyone's interested, James Gleick recently released a wonderful biography of Sir Isaac. It's a very entertaining, very fast read.

    Disclaimer: I've never read any other Newton biography, so I can't validate the accuracy. ;)

    --
    "Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
    1. Re:Biography by thesupermikey · · Score: 3, Informative

      I feel that Richard S. Westfall The Life of Isaac Newton is a much more fair look at the life of Newton.

      --
      Mikey
      I've always been the kinda guy to fall for the girl dressed like an eskimo.
  8. you're kidding...right? by NixterAg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Could Isaac Newton get a faculty job, or is modern society too intolerant of eccentricity?

    Modern society might be, and often for good reason, but if there's any place where eccentricity is tolerated, or promoted even, it's academia. I often think that many of the professors are purposefully eccentric. It's almost become something expected of the truly gifted, and many fraudulently flaunt their own eccentricity for the express purpose of making others think they are gifted. They've heard too many stores about Einstein, Turing, and Newton and get delusions of grandeur.

    The fact is, most Universities won't care if you wear your underwear outside of your pants if you manage to do something truly brilliant. You won't be hired to teach, you'll be hired simply so the University can advertise that you're on staff.

  9. Depends by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Depends on Newton's politics. If he joined demonstrations, sculpted a figure of a Catholic bishop with a penis-shaped miter, and referred to the President as "The Bush Junta", he'd have a job, and tenure, almost immediately.

    Sorry to say, I'm not kidding...

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  10. Why not? John Nash did. by JusTyler · · Score: 4, Informative

    John Nash was extremely eccentric but held down positions at MIT.

  11. wasn't newton rich, though? by the+idoru · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i confess a lack of historical knowledge here, but wasn't Newton wealthy? wasn't he able to sit around and ponder great mathematical/physical questions because he didn't have to worry about a paycheck?

    if that was the case, i think the real question is, how many independently wealthy people out there these days sit around and ponder the world? i can only think of Stephen Wolfram (of Mathematica fame) and Dean Kamen (dialysis, segway), but even they got wealthy and continue to make money by putting their eccentric thinking towards earning themselves money.

    1. Re:wasn't newton rich, though? by panurge · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. His father died young and although his family technically belonged to the squirearchy, they were very poor. As a teenager he had to do farm work. He had to work his way through Cambridge as the poorest grade of student. It's believed that this explained his attitude to money (grasping) in later life. He was able to "sit around pondering" because the University was closed by the plague and he had to go home for a while.

      --
      Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  12. Dr. Issac Newton, PhD by kobukson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    if the schizophrenic, homosexual, and sometimes just downright bizarre John Nash (forget what you saw in the overly romanticized movie 'A Beautiful Mind'), could maintain a presence in academia and eventually win the Nobel Prize for Economics, then it is likely that Sir Issac Newton could have held a position as a tenured professor.

    although it must be asked: through what lens are we looking at when we say Sir Issac Newton was eccentric? sure he wrote stuff that may seem wierd today, like treatises that speculated on the geological location of Hell. but one must keep in mind that during his time, most scientists were actually "natural philosophers", who investigated matters of philosophy and religion, as well as pure science.

    Newton did make most of his equipment himself, such as grinding his own lenses for Studies in Opticks. I doubt that he would be able to go that today.

    --
    -- I hereby announce, on behalf of my great ancester Oog, a retroactive patent on THE WHEEL.
    1. Re:Dr. Issac Newton, PhD by oob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry to be pedantic, but there is no such thing as the "Nobel Prize for Economics."

      Alfred Nobel's will makes provision for four Swedish prizes (Physics, Chemistry, Physiology, Literature) and one Norwegian prize (Peace.) The reason for the seperation is due to Nobel's analysis of the relative merits of the two cultures - he believed that Norwegian society was more enlightened than Sweden thus better equiped to award the Peace prize.

      There is an additional prize called the 'Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in memory of Alfred Nobel" Which is (as the name suggests) awarded by the Bank of Sweden, NOT by the Swedish or Norwegian Nobel committees. Prestigious as it is, it is not a Nobel Prize.

      More information on the prizes is available here

    2. Re:Dr. Issac Newton, PhD by DarkSarin · · Score: 4, Informative

      begin rant

      The focus of 'A Beautiful Mind' was NOT to document all of his bizarreness, but to demonstrate what schizophrenia could be like--and it did a decent job of it.

      Having worked as a mental health associate in a residential treatment facility that primarily cares for schizophrenics, I think it important to point out a few things.

      First, most schizophrenics are bizarre. By definition. Catatonic schizophrenics may not be, but bizarreness of thought is one of the requirements for diagnosis (source: DSM-IV revised). Thus to say that John Nash was sometimes bizarre is redundant. Of course he was.

      Second, sexuality is unrelated to the discussion. Why bring it up?

      Third, schizophrenia is a very debilitating disease. It is not easily overcome. If you think that the movie was overly romantic, consider this: two-thirds (approximately) of schizophrenics do not get better, regardless of treatment. It is very exceptional that someone with schizophrenia can learn to cope as well as Nash did. His story is exceptional, even if hollywood made it seem "cute" or whatever. I respect him for what he did. The movie, in terms of its treatment of what schizophrenics go through, did a good job of illustrating the nature of thier delusions, hallucinations and paranoia. IF ANYTHING IT UNDERSTATED IT!!!!!

      Having worked with a man who truly believed his mother was a leprechaun, another who believed that he invented the Knight Rider car (but the government stole it, and made the show so they could kill his family and cover it all up) (he also believed that demons would throw "fury darts" at him, and that was why he attacked people), and another (blond) man who believed the devil was persecuting him becuase he had red hair, I have a lot of respect for those who manage to overcome this. I also feel that unless you have worked with these people, you cannot rightfully comment on their "bizarreness".

      end rant

      As an aside (maybe a second rant), I also worked with some who were ADD/ADHD, and it is a strange thing. It is also mostly behavioral (I believe, some will argue), and is very rare outside the US. Ritalin should NEVER be given to children. If you know anything about medicine or psychology, consider this. The test group for Ritalin was adult humans and rats (sometimes different, sometimes not). There has NOT been any solid research on the long-term effects of Ritalin on young children. To generalize the results of studies on adults to children is a good example of bad statistics and medicine.

      I know I haven't cited references like I should, but it is late.

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
  13. No lack of eccentrics in University faculties by deanc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The university system is one of the last havens of eccentricity. It's full of eccentrics. To claim otherwise bespeaks an ignorance of university culture.

    "Normal" people end up in investment banking, consulting, or corporate law where there truly is no room for eccentrics.

  14. Only problem being by nizo · · Score: 5, Funny
    Could Isaac Newton get a faculty job, or is modern society too intolerant of eccentricity?

    Eccentricity is ok, its the whole dead thing that might make it hard for him to get hired. Then again, with some of the braindead teachers I have had in the past, maybe not.

    What do you mean you haven't published anything in over 300 years??

  15. Re:Isaac Newton alive today? by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Q: What would Isaac Newton be doing, if he were alive today?
    A: Clawing at the lid of his coffin.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  16. Benjamin Franklin by suso · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ben Franklin would probably get arrested for flying a kite without a license.

  17. Re:If Isaac newton was alive today he would not by dgenr8 · · Score: 4, Funny


    The evidence supports your theory: Newton died celibate.

  18. Re:The more important question by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Two words:

    Principia Mathematica.

    There has never been a more significant scientific publication.

    If you published something that important, you could find an appointment just about anywhere...even if you were purple and lived off of pop-rocks.

    --
    The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
  19. Re:+2 funny ??? by kruntiform · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, it's true. He was one of the greatest geniuses ever, but he was an asshole. His famous statement, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants", was a sarcastic comment directed at Robert Hooke who was a little hunch-backed guy. When Newton oversaw the moving of the Royal Society to a new location and they were moving the portraits of all the members, Hooke's portrait somehow got lost. So now no one knows what Hooke looked like.

  20. Newton shouldn't have been hired. by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Newton shouldn't have been hired for a faculty job. He was reputed to be the worst teacher ever. He often didn't even pretend to teach, and treated his job as a sinecure. On the occasions when he did pretend to give a lecture, it was generally to an empty hall, because no students would show up.

    A better niche for Newton in modern society would have been a research job at a national lab -- no teaching required, just research.

    You also have to realize that the research world was a massive disaster back then. People didn't publish their results. There were no scientific journals. Newton invented calculus, found the laws of motion, and analyzed the motion of the planets. Then he sat on his discoveries for decades (and only eventually published the Principia because he wanted to build a claim that Leibniz and Hooke had taken ideas from him, rather than the other way around).

    So let's not imagine a golden age when it was OK to be a socially nonconforming geek.

  21. A change: quality not quantity of communication by The+Revolutionary · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Thinking of that time, what I find is perhaps most significant (although perhaps romanticized also) is the climate of scholarly discourse.

    It seems there is something missing today in much of communication, and I am guilty of contributing to this, as I'm sure are many of you. Email, telephone, and perhaps worst of all: chat rooms. All of these things contribute to the attitude of raking our discourse in the mud; we treat it as so common and vulgar, as though it is an ugly tool not an art. We must all take an active role in preserving and promoting that grand and noble thing which is rational dialogue between two human persons.

    Very few of us have the opportunity to particpate in, for example, discourse through publishing scholarly papers, and even for those who do, the whole processes is necessarily exclusive.

    I believe that manual letter writing is perhaps the most rewarding means of communication. Yes, manual letter writing: that thing people do with a real pen and real dead-tree paper, like your mother and aunts and grandmothers did and, if living, probably still do. Our mothers do more to promote an atmosphere affirming the dignity of human dicourse than probably do many of us!

    every letter has a greater sense of importance - It could be weeks before you receive a reply, and how the world can change in that time; the letter is an occasion to "put on your best suit and use your finest china", as it were.

    it is deliberate - You might take a week to ponder and absorb the thoughts of your interlocutor before evening sitting down to write. Writing your response - what must suffice as the only communication between the two of you for perhaps weeks or more - is a task for more than even a single evening. This is no 30 word email that you bang out in as many seconds.

    it necessitates greater attention to quality and clarity - This is a grand occasion. If you do not put forth your best effort, you will regret it immediately. How many of you have thought to yourselves, "I should have said that instead?" Here there is no recourse. You can not call up your acquaintance and offer a clarification or warning before it is read; you can not send off a follow-up email to explain yourself that evening.

    it provides for cooler heads - You may be steaming-mad now, but consider how horrible you will feel in many days or even weeks when you receive a reply. Oh, how foolish you will feel when you must read your brash and irrational words quoted to you then!