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Could Isaac Newton Get a Faculty Job?
An anonymous reader writes "Could Isaac Newton get a faculty job, or is modern society too intolerant of eccentricity? That's one of the questions that Glenn Reynolds asks Neal Stephenson in this interview over at TechCentralstation. Others involve the changing nature of fame in an age of fragmented media, the role of the Seventeenth Century in shaping the modern world, and what it's like to write a book with a fountain pen, in the twenty-first century."
I don't think he could get a job, but if he already had one, he could definetely get tenure.
Newton is rumored to have been an uber-asshole. An asshole among assholes. His main trait wasn't that he was eccentric, it was that he was an asshole to each and everyone he met.
It depends on the university and the department chair, but I'm willing to bet that you can find assholes in faculty at any given university.
So yes, Isaac Newton could probably have been hired on despite his assholeness.
The spectre of lawsuits arising from apples to the head would be enough to turn Sir Issac away at the door.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
His eccentricity would no doubt have been diagnosed as ADD or ADHD. He would have been drugged with narcotics and told to behave himself.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
The HR blimp would call him "overqualified" and middle management would ignore him because his agency told him to "put his education last."
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
This isn't just science. How many major computer companies were founded by people who never even finished college? Dell, Microsoft, Apple, and so on, these are all companies that would never hire their own founders considering them unqualified. I'm reasonably certain that this problem persists in other industries as well.
If Isaac newton was alive today he would not be a physicist. He would be a laid off geek sitting and reading slashdot. So, the question of whether he would be accepted as faculty is moot.
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
If anyone's interested, James Gleick recently released a wonderful biography of Sir Isaac. It's a very entertaining, very fast read.
Disclaimer: I've never read any other Newton biography, so I can't validate the accuracy. ;)
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Don't kid yourselves. Politics is part of the process and I don't mean personal politics. I mean political positions on things like school choice, regulation of the economy, etc.
The question is: would Newton be smart enough to keep his mouth shut?
He would have to stay off the blacklist.
Could Isaac Newton get a faculty job, or is modern society too intolerant of eccentricity?
Modern society might be, and often for good reason, but if there's any place where eccentricity is tolerated, or promoted even, it's academia. I often think that many of the professors are purposefully eccentric. It's almost become something expected of the truly gifted, and many fraudulently flaunt their own eccentricity for the express purpose of making others think they are gifted. They've heard too many stores about Einstein, Turing, and Newton and get delusions of grandeur.
The fact is, most Universities won't care if you wear your underwear outside of your pants if you manage to do something truly brilliant. You won't be hired to teach, you'll be hired simply so the University can advertise that you're on staff.
Sorry to say, I'm not kidding...
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
John Nash was extremely eccentric but held down positions at MIT.
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Excellent point!
I will remember to immediately disgregard anything he says from now on, and consider all of his interviews irrelevant, now that I realize he holds different political views than you!
Whew, and to think, I almost RTFA...
i confess a lack of historical knowledge here, but wasn't Newton wealthy? wasn't he able to sit around and ponder great mathematical/physical questions because he didn't have to worry about a paycheck?
if that was the case, i think the real question is, how many independently wealthy people out there these days sit around and ponder the world? i can only think of Stephen Wolfram (of Mathematica fame) and Dean Kamen (dialysis, segway), but even they got wealthy and continue to make money by putting their eccentric thinking towards earning themselves money.
if the schizophrenic, homosexual, and sometimes just downright bizarre John Nash (forget what you saw in the overly romanticized movie 'A Beautiful Mind'), could maintain a presence in academia and eventually win the Nobel Prize for Economics, then it is likely that Sir Issac Newton could have held a position as a tenured professor.
although it must be asked: through what lens are we looking at when we say Sir Issac Newton was eccentric? sure he wrote stuff that may seem wierd today, like treatises that speculated on the geological location of Hell. but one must keep in mind that during his time, most scientists were actually "natural philosophers", who investigated matters of philosophy and religion, as well as pure science.
Newton did make most of his equipment himself, such as grinding his own lenses for Studies in Opticks. I doubt that he would be able to go that today.
-- I hereby announce, on behalf of my great ancester Oog, a retroactive patent on THE WHEEL.
The university system is one of the last havens of eccentricity. It's full of eccentrics. To claim otherwise bespeaks an ignorance of university culture.
"Normal" people end up in investment banking, consulting, or corporate law where there truly is no room for eccentrics.
Eccentricity is ok, its the whole dead thing that might make it hard for him to get hired. Then again, with some of the braindead teachers I have had in the past, maybe not.
What do you mean you haven't published anything in over 300 years??
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Even what is left of his now fully decomposed bag of bones would smell better than most of the professors I had while getting my Electrical Engineering degree.
Q: What would Isaac Newton be doing, if he were alive today?
A: Clawing at the lid of his coffin.
Breakfast served all day!
Err...Chair? Oxford?
perhaps you are talking about the position of "Lucasian Professor of Mathematics" at Cambridge University.
Ben Franklin would probably get arrested for flying a kite without a license.
I have met a lot of Profs in Chemical Engineering and not a single one of them is what society would call normal.
Newton would fit right in.
Physics profs are pretty strange also.
I remember seeing an interview once with a man who according to IQ tests was the (or one of the) smartest man currently living. He went on about how he was smarter then Einstein but how no one would hire him without a degree and it was so hard to meet other smart people, etc. He said he was going to write a book that would change how we think about physics or something like that, was a bouncer and frankly from what I heard I probably wouldn't hire him either. It takes more than just brains, it takes the desire to use them and that is what great scientists have. You always hear about the mythical super-genius who doesn't get the great education and suddenly gets it and revolutionizes the world, in reality if they didn't bother learning basic math what makes you thnik they'll bother with string theory.
That's what makes the great scientists, the love of learning, and that's why I think Newton would have made it to Faculty today (assuming he didn't decide to work for a mega-corporation instead). Maybe he wouldn't have flown through school, he could probably find it slow enough to bore him but I feel that modern schooling is dynamic enough from 50 years ago that he would have made it through, remember this is a man who loved to learn, I mean it can't be much less stimulating then 17th century schooling! Now assuming he decides to go into mathematics (or physics) again he goes to university. Now assuming that due to boredom he didn't get great high school marks (I suspect unlikely) Newton wasn't exactly from a poor family and could of probably gone into whatever school he wanted. Once he's in university he's on the path and can pretty much do whatever he wants. If he gets the marks which he could definately do eccentricity would be no obstacle and he would make it into Faculty in no time.
I stole this Sig
Two words:
Principia Mathematica.
There has never been a more significant scientific publication.
If you published something that important, you could find an appointment just about anywhere...even if you were purple and lived off of pop-rocks.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Yes, it's true. He was one of the greatest geniuses ever, but he was an asshole. His famous statement, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants", was a sarcastic comment directed at Robert Hooke who was a little hunch-backed guy. When Newton oversaw the moving of the Royal Society to a new location and they were moving the portraits of all the members, Hooke's portrait somehow got lost. So now no one knows what Hooke looked like.
And why? Because I dared to dream of my own race of atomic monsters, atomic supermen with octagonal shaped bodies that suck blood...."
IF Isaac Newton lived today he could probably get an academic job in England or the U.S. At least if he published something truly brilliant first and then applied for a job.
... OK, more nuts) with all the time he would be obliged to waste massaging students' egos, marking student assignments and attending teaching skills courses.
IF Isaac Newton lived today and took a job in within the English university system he would go nuts (well
IF Isaac Newton lived today and got an academic job he would quit academe quick smart and get a job in the financial sector, earn a decent amount of money and do research just for fun.
The liver is evil and must be punished.
A better niche for Newton in modern society would have been a research job at a national lab -- no teaching required, just research.
You also have to realize that the research world was a massive disaster back then. People didn't publish their results. There were no scientific journals. Newton invented calculus, found the laws of motion, and analyzed the motion of the planets. Then he sat on his discoveries for decades (and only eventually published the Principia because he wanted to build a claim that Leibniz and Hooke had taken ideas from him, rather than the other way around).
So let's not imagine a golden age when it was OK to be a socially nonconforming geek.
Find free books.
I have a BS. I guess I have no shot at all.
That's not true. You only need to look at SCO and Microsoft to see the value of BS.
This sig is part of your complete breakfast.
Speaking as someone who lives in Hollywood (where eccentricity is often tolerated entirely too much...), I'm not prepared to accept the assertion that intolerance to nonconformity is denying society the fruits of genius on a significant scale.
Sure, you're gonna find a "mad" genius or two, whose inability to fit into society leads to isolation, instutionalization or incarceration. And for every one of them you'll find at least a thousand just-plain-whackos. I daresay that we've "lost" more natural math geniuses to them being born as Kalahari Bushmen who never saw a zero in their whole lives, then to over-adherence to any collection of cultural mores.
The benefits of encouraging a certain level of - call it consistency - more than likely outweigh the detriments. Of course it can go too far; nobody would suggest that dressing a specific way be used as a criteria for hiring in an academic institution, for one example. But asking that the faculty generally refrain from habitually making up nonsense words in ordinary conversation, and that they bathe now and then and try to remember to at least WEAR clothes - I reckon that's a good thing.
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Well, we all admire Newton for his physics and his mathematics. But you don't hear too many people praising his alchemy, his astrology, or his religous/apocalyptic histories. I imagine that his work in these latter three fields would tend to push him to the sidelines of academia. But, that doesn't mean he wouldn't get a position somewhere.
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If you think you want only the top 1% to work at your company, you shouldn't create a company. What matters much more than credentials, to create a succesful company, is the ability of the employee to work in a team, and to meet goals - and to overcome obstacles. Far to many of the recent top 1% lack this ability - and this is ofthen the most important. Besides, there's only a finite group of companies that can hire the top 1%, or 10%, or whatever%
The proper title is Principia Mathematica Philosophiae Naturalis. The only time I ever found Latin useful was when I had to write an essay on Newton and the only copy of the Principia in the library was the Latin version. Stretching a point, you could say, in fact, that Latin was the first scientific programming language.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
It seems there is something missing today in much of communication, and I am guilty of contributing to this, as I'm sure are many of you. Email, telephone, and perhaps worst of all: chat rooms. All of these things contribute to the attitude of raking our discourse in the mud; we treat it as so common and vulgar, as though it is an ugly tool not an art. We must all take an active role in preserving and promoting that grand and noble thing which is rational dialogue between two human persons.
Very few of us have the opportunity to particpate in, for example, discourse through publishing scholarly papers, and even for those who do, the whole processes is necessarily exclusive.
I believe that manual letter writing is perhaps the most rewarding means of communication. Yes, manual letter writing: that thing people do with a real pen and real dead-tree paper, like your mother and aunts and grandmothers did and, if living, probably still do. Our mothers do more to promote an atmosphere affirming the dignity of human dicourse than probably do many of us!
every letter has a greater sense of importance - It could be weeks before you receive a reply, and how the world can change in that time; the letter is an occasion to "put on your best suit and use your finest china", as it were.
it is deliberate - You might take a week to ponder and absorb the thoughts of your interlocutor before evening sitting down to write. Writing your response - what must suffice as the only communication between the two of you for perhaps weeks or more - is a task for more than even a single evening. This is no 30 word email that you bang out in as many seconds.
it necessitates greater attention to quality and clarity - This is a grand occasion. If you do not put forth your best effort, you will regret it immediately. How many of you have thought to yourselves, "I should have said that instead?" Here there is no recourse. You can not call up your acquaintance and offer a clarification or warning before it is read; you can not send off a follow-up email to explain yourself that evening.
it provides for cooler heads - You may be steaming-mad now, but consider how horrible you will feel in many days or even weeks when you receive a reply. Oh, how foolish you will feel when you must read your brash and irrational words quoted to you then!
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To be honest, given the current environment, I have my doubts that Richard Feynmann would get tenure at the moment especially inhis younger years.
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Newton was a devout Christian and a creationist. That doesn't play well in the modern scientific community, where atheism and agnosticism are the ruling ideologies. If Isaac Newton were applying for a university job today, he would be treated with disdain. From this biography:
He loved God and believed God's Word-- all of it. He wrote, 'I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily'. He also wrote, 'Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system, I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance'.
Principia Mathematica.
There has never been a more significant scientific publication
My physics teacher at school regarded it as the second most significant, after 'The Origin of Species'. I'm inclined to agree.
I disagree. While Darwin's work is undoubtedly significant it had more of a social impact than a scientific one. The publication of the Origin helped usher in the modern period; forcing people to re-evaluate their relationship with god and nature. Its effect on religion, social science, and even literature (particularly early science fiction) should not be underestimated.
However, as a scientific publication it pales in comparison to Principia Mathematica. The Origin was really a collection of good observations coupled with interesting (but flawed)hypotheses. The lasting effect of the Origin on the scientific community has largely been negative. People who have no concept of modern genetics will read a few chapters and come to all sorts of bizarre, incorrect conclusions (people are descendants of apes, biological determinism and so on..). This leads to the publication of books based on these conclusions ( see "The Giraffe's Neck" by Francis Hitching).
On the other hand Newton's work has ahd a profound, lasting and positive effect on science. For hundreds of years, his Newtonian mechanics were the only way to understand the physical universe. Even after his gravitational theory has been displaced by relativity and quantum theory, newtonian mechanics are still a useful tool taught to any grade school student.