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Sony Plans Smaller PS2 Chip, Cell Manufacturing

Posted by simoniker on from the ramping-up-for-infinitely-small dept.

Thanks to Reuters for their story discussing Sony's plans to start mass production on a smaller PlayStation 2 chip. The new chip is "using cutting-edge 90-nanometer processing technology", and monthly production of the chip, which is functionally identical, and "...combines the game console's microprocessor and graphics chip, will start at 'several' hundred thousand units before growing to more than a million units by next year." They also plan to start a test plant for their next-gen Cell processor, widely rumored as the basis for the PlayStation 3, and the Sony plants are "...expected to start mass production of 'Cell' in the second-half of 2005", hopefully far enough ahead of time to avoid the chip shortages that plagued the PS2 launch.

26 comments

  1. Steps to the PSP... by H0NGK0NGPH00EY · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds like there may be something to their claims that the PSP will have the power of a PS2, after all. I would say that combining the microprocessor and graphics chip into one smaller chip is a pretty good step toward fitting the whole thing into a handheld device, yes?

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    Do not read this sig.
    1. Re:Steps to the PSP... by sYn+pHrEAk · · Score: 1

      True. And with that much power in one little PSP, sounds like it will double as an electric hand warmer.

    2. Re:Steps to the PSP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      For about five minutes at that.

    3. Re:Steps to the PSP... by addaon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's something even more important, though. Originally, the PS1 (PSX has become an overloaded term) was a typical system; a bunch of chips tied together on a circuit board. Over the lifetime of the system they reduced the component count significantly; the final revision of the PS1 had the entire system (well, except for standard external stuff) on a single chip.

      This was nice; it let Sony cut down the console costs and increase the profit margin. But it allowed something even better. It allowed Sony to include an entire PS1 inside the PS2, for the cost of one (relatively small) chip. Now that the PS2 (which contains a PS1...) is on a single chip, it becomes feasible to put an entire PS2 inside the PS3, even though the architectures are (presumably) very different. It is literally two (or, I guess, three) systems in a single box; multiple CPU's, of which only one is active at a given time.

      This leads, of course, to backwards compatibility which, in my opinion, is the most important think Sony has over the competion.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    4. Re:Steps to the PSP... by Black+Hitler · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hmm.......not too long ago Sony put out a call for emulator programmers. It was generally assumed that the PS3 was going to emulate the PS2, rather than including a miniaturized PS2 onboard. Maybe they decided emulation was more trouble than it was worth?

    5. Re:Steps to the PSP... by addaon · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure they've decided yet, but I suspect they'll decide, based on fab costs of the 1-chip PS2, pretty soon... before investing all too much in an emulator.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    6. Re:Steps to the PSP... by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2, Informative

      Note, though, that they stated only the microprocessor and graphics processor have been combined. This excepts the I/O chip, which is the part that acts as a PS1.

      Actually, they announced the combining of the CPU and GPU a few months ago, but now they're doing it with the '90-nanometer' technology, meaning it will be even smaller.

      The combination of the PS2 chips is also part of what lead to rumours that the PS3 may not do PS1 compatibility, though that still hasn't been confirmed or denied.

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      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  2. New business plan for Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the new Cell (TM) technology will make the PS3 10,000 times more powerful than the PS2, perhaps they should just sell a handful and let the rest of us access the hyper-power through dumb terminals.

    1. Re:New business plan for Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This idea makes a LOT of sense. It makes a LOT of sense for the makers of all those PDAs, too. Your use of the term 'dumb terminal', however, is unfortunate. The handheld terminal provides for rich graphic output, can focus vitually all of its power on user side graphics, and can focus on rich user input, including touchscreen and voice.

  3. chip shorages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was pretty certain everyone knew that was just Sony's attempt at increasing demand.

  4. Why not 0.13um???? by pagercam2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Going to smaller geometries is a standard tactic, so this is surprising but the more supprising that they intend to skip 0.13um which is still leading edge, .09um is still pretty risky and expensive. 0.13um would have cut the die size in half, while .09 reduces by 75% which is better but the reliability of .09 and the extra effort to go to the latest process when you need 20 million parts/year this sounds like a major risk that shouldn't be allowed to limit the move of the PS2 marketing push. I find it somewhat strange that "Cell" is getting so much press and interest, nobody has built a chip at .065um yet and this may take years if they can fit 8 processors at 65nm they should be prototyping 4-6 processors at .09 or 2-4 at .13. The cell seems to be more of a marketing ploy rather that real technology or atleast that all thats getting out. Does a game system need 1 trillion ops/sec???? for game play? A workstation with this capability would make a lot more money, your own nuclear resarch on PS3????

    1. Re:Why not 0.13um???? by koreth · · Score: 1
      Does a game system need 1 trillion ops/sec???? for game play?

      Yes! Okay, not for Tetris, but many games try to render realistic-looking scenes and characters, a goal that's severely hampered by a lack of processing power.

      And even leaving aside graphics, more CPU power means more capacity for advanced AI or more detailed, accurate simulation of real-world things like cars and planes and weapons.

    2. Re:Why not 0.13um???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .09 better for the handheld PSP of course!

    3. Re:Why not 0.13um???? by Bob+The+Cowboy · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      I find it somewhat strange that "Cell" is getting so much press and interest, nobody has built a chip at .065um yet and this may take years if they can fit 8 processors at 65nm they should be prototyping 4-6 processors at .09 or 2-4 at .13.


      I think I speak for the rest of us (or maybe its just the Smirnoff talking) when I say: "wtf?"
  5. Whats so new about the Cell processor? by mnmn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have seen so much hype and no numbers. So what if each Cell is an overclocked ARM7TDMI and they use 16 of them in the box? I am more interested in how the memory is connected to each of the cells (northbridge), the memory specs (surely not the PC133), and how much of the OpenGL pipeline is offloaded further from the GPU to the chips. This is after all what they claim theyre doing.

    I've seen dual and quad ARM cores in one chip, seen a simple GPU with an ARM in one chip and an ARM chip with a large FPGA on board. These are real production objects being used in cell phones and the likes. Everyone knows a dual Pentium2 500MHz doesnt necessarily beat a single Pentium3 at 1GHz, so how does this translate into cool gaming?

    --
    "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
  6. Why? by BigDork1001 · · Score: 1
    "...combines the game console's microprocessor and graphics chip, will start at 'several' hundred thousand units before growing to more than a million units by next year."

    That's a lot of units for a console that's reaching the beginning of the end. Most people who own PS2s already have one. I doubt that they'll be able to move that many chips.

    --
    "Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Most people who own PS2s already have one.

      Wow.

      I...

      Wow.

    2. Re:Why? by ChaoticLimbs · · Score: 1

      I had the same reaction. It's perversely astute of him to notice this.

    3. Re:Why? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the PSX. If they're expecting decent sales of the unit they'll need quite a few more chips than they're producing now. They're also still selling quite a bit more than 2 million PS2s a year (1,707,000 in Japan alone in 2003 through the first week of last month). Who knows what they're really planning to do with these smaller chips, though, as they're obviously not ramping up production to put out more of the current package, unless they plan on revamping the PS2's package once they get production up and get a decent stockpile of these processors.

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      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  7. What the PS3 could do... by jameskojiro · · Score: 0

    I think it could render things very inpressivly. Imagine a fully rendered MMORPG that uses a the headset visor Sony recently came out with in japan. You could run around and turn your head in real time and render almost lifelike scenes. Especially if they use some programming tech that is in the latest Gran Turismo 3. Watch out, this may become as addictive as a holodeck could theoretically be!

    Anyone for a game of "the world"?

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    1. Re:What the PS3 could do... by ChaoticLimbs · · Score: 1

      I assume that when you suggest we all run around with visor displays on, that the running happens in the game world, and that the head turning happens in the real world. If that's not what you meant, I predict some nasty injuries due to stairs, walls, signage and railings on college campuses. !I totally agree that it would be fun to strap a display to my head.

    2. Re:What the PS3 could do... by jameskojiro · · Score: 0

      That is what i meant. But I do have to thank you for that wonderful 9imagry of someone running outside with a visor on and getting clothes-lined by a tree branch!

      --
      Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    3. Re:What the PS3 could do... by sYn+pHrEAk · · Score: 1

      Hooray for .hack//

  8. Sony better not bite off more than they can chew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sony pushed the limits when they tried using 0.25um tech to make the first huge 300mm^2 PS2 chips and the result was massive shortages that lasted for almost a year until they transferred to 0.18um. Now perhaps in trying to keep die size down, they will run into the problem that Intel has...

  9. Re:Sony better not bite off more than they can che by UltimaL337Star · · Score: 0

    Let's hope they don't try to solve the problem by adding a giant 10 square foot fan to each cell and slapping FX to the title.

  10. PS2 on a card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know what would be cool? If they put the PS2 on a PCI card so that I could play ps2 games on my linux box.