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Intuit Apologizes to Turbo Tax Customers
tstoneman writes "Intuit has issued an apology for aggravating $50-90 million in customers over their product activation code. Let's hope that they have learned their lesson, and that other companies will heed this warning. Nonetheless, I am still seething over their malware that they installed without letting me know, and despite the apology, I will be moving to Taxcut permanently from now on."
They're showing that companies can actually listen to their customers. Support them and maybe other companies will take notice.
Ok, here's what I want to know: Why is it that Intuit got such a backlash from this that they removed the protection scheme and even issued a public apology, but Microsoft gets away with the same thing and even worse yet with their Windows XP product activation? It baffles me how this kind of thing is just ignored when Microsoft does it...
Too often companies hear only negative things and don't hear from customers when they do the right thing. They boned up, apologized, and have said they won't do it next year. So why not let them know they did the right thing? At the bottom of their page with the activation numbers is a rating and comment box for how effective the solution was.
Your data files disappear after 9 months.
I had that happen when I used the web version in 2002. Fuckers.
Buy the binary version.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Just sayin', ya know...
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
The biggest difference is that people install tax software every year and are much more likely to install it on multiple machines. My boss is a great example of one of these people who Intuit never meant to piss off. He pays for everything and wouldn't dare bootleg but he installed TurboTax on his home computer and then realized he would be better off doing the work on his laptop but couldn't install it without calling Intuit. Needless to say he was pissed.
Place all personal financial data on a system running IIS just waiting for the next 'leet skript kiddie to take advantage of the next glaring vulnerability so they can own your bank accoount. I dont think so.
Actually they aren't protecting their IP from pirates. They are protecting their IP from casual copying. Real pirates can get around almost any type of copy protection. Product activation, in most forms, is pretty easy to crack if you know what your doing. Activation doesn't stop real pirates. Not much can.
I have always found product activation funny. While I understand the desire to protect IP, casual copying in many instances can result in greater revanue for a company. Just look at Microsoft. The monopoly they now enjoy is a direct result of casual copying. Everyone I know used to stay current with the latest release of Windows / Office. Some bought it, some copied it, but almost everyone had the latest release of the software. That gave Microsoft a lot of power and influence and they used it to their advantage.
Since the XP series, most users have not upgraded. If they run XP it's because it came with their computer. Same goes with Office. Now if a lower cost alternative is available many of them will probably be open to it. I've told several of my friends about Open Office and conviced them to download it rather than upgrade to Office XP (and now 2003). I doubt those people I know are the only people looking for an lower cost alternative to Office. Activation may end up being a real problem for Microsoft in the long run.
It's evil in this particular case because there were reports from many customers being told when they called in to re-activate software after an upgrade that they were thieves, and should go buy another copy.
It's evil in general, because by the time every software manufacturer is doing it, I'll have to make ~20 phone calls when I install that magic new video card that tweaks my hardware hash just enough...
and what happens when competing forms of activation schemes over-write each other's Secret Hard Drive Boot Sector Bit? Or when I go to install a dual boot with one of them 'Open' operating systems that makes use of that sector?
It's just not a good solution to the problem of casual copying.
I am the very model of a modern major general!
My personal tax solution has served me well for 5 years now. It was extremely affordable, did not require activation, runs on several platforms, works for an unlimited number of unique users, does not require updating between tax years, and will never expire.
Well, I suppose eventually, it'll get too short from repeated sharpenings, and I'll need to buy a new pencil... but you get my point.
Geez, people, do all of you guys file as your own business? Personal taxes are not that hard. At least, not up here in Canada. Why are people so afraid of 'em? You get some slips in the mail, you copy the numbers over onto the forms, do a little math, and presto, you get some money back. They'll even double-check your numbers for you, and if you missed a deduction, they'll adjust for you, and you'll get more money back.
What's the big attraction about spending $30/year or whatever on the latest-and-greatest tax software, or paying some suit at H&R Block to do simple arithmetic for you?
Aren't we supposed to be among the smartest of society? Or at least among the most mathematically adept? Why the big fear? The satisfaction of filing your own taxes and doing it all on paper is pretty rewarding, I must say.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
I purchased used every version since it was called MacInTax and published by Chipsoft. I now use TaxCut If they were really that concerned about protecting their IP they could have allowed the program to run only if an original CD was in the CDROM drive. Notice the use of an instead of THE this means any orginal TurboTax CD! This simple measure would have provided reasonable protection for IP while allowing the customer to move the program from machine to machine as they deemed fit. Instead they chose a intrusive program developed by macrovision which modified the disk drive and restricted the purchaser's ability to use the software on any machine other than the one it was originally installed upon. With this in mind I voted with my wallet and chose a more reasonable product and company.
Shouldn't we reward that? I mean, has "TaxCut" promised not to do idiotic things like this? Is it impossible to forgive an organization that makes mistakes? Why do we seem to have double-standards on these things? Is it cynicism, or stupidity?
What took them so long?
It took them four months along with two market research firms to determine that, in fact, customers don't like getting screwed.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Yes, but even this is unacceptable. I shouldn't have to ask "permission" to reinstall my operating system.
It really, REALLY bothers me that people put up with this bullshit. If no one did, MS wouldn't be able to pull it off.
Why aren't people as upset about XP's activation as they were about Intuit's?
There were like 15 million TurboTax returns in 2001 - and 5.5 million copies of TurboTax sold.
/. After being ripped off by Intuit once, why should I go back?
This does not mean that there were 10 million pirated copies of TurboTax. This means that people did their own taxes and their mom's taxes and maybe their neighbor's taxes with the software they bought. I don't care what the EULA says, that is not piracy. You don't have to buy a new copy of Microsoft Office each time you write a letter.
It gets into another big argument, but the idea that companies can tell you how you are allowed to use their product after you legally purchase it is pretty flawed. The reason so many average people commit the crime of piracy so often is because the restrictions companies are trying to place on ridiculous. Why would someone think it would be illegal to do their mom's taxes with the software they bought? You don't have to buy another car if you let your friend drive it.
One of the advantages that using software has over using a CPA is that it can be used over again for the same price. Part of Intuit's problem was that what consumers saw as a big advantage in using their product, Intuit saw as a crime. In order to stop this percieved crime, Intuit took away one of the big selling points of their software.
I'm glad they eventually learned their lesson, but I'm with a lot of folks here on
Don't forget that Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.
I did, and I understand the issues perfectly.
It still plays DVDs just fine, and wouldn't have made your "investment" worthless if it had lived. On the contrary, I think if Divx had lived it would not have killed DVDs, but new release DVDs would still be $13 instead of $20. There is no reason why the two formats couldn't have coexisted and competed.
As for the DRM issues, do you think your privacy is any more secure with Blockbuster or your cable company? Do you ever use a credit card?
I understand why for certain special movies people want to "own" a DVD of it, but I don't think Divx ever threatened that. Killing Divx was in Warner Bros. best interest, not yours, and its death is just as much a money grab by the studios as you claim divx was a money grab by CC.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
this is what I sent them:
I'm a lost customer to you; it is unlikely that I would ever buy another Intuit product. I've been a paying customer of yours for years, both at retail and directly from you, but this year I bought TaxCut and am perfectly happy with it. I am still shocked that you think that treating your customers like thieves is a good business practice. I see you have an "unlock code" now for Quicken too, from the front page.
You're supposed to be in the business of SOLVING customers' problems, not CREATING them.
Casual copying probably helps you; it gets people hooked on your product, and it turns even people who didn't pay for it into advertising. If everyone is using a product, some percentage will always buy new versions, and if you provide a good quality, problem-free product, that percentage will most likely climb steadily over time. Mindshare really matters. If I ask five friends "what's the best tax program", and they all tell me Turbotax, that's going to have a much greater impact on me than three Turbotax votes and two TaxCut votes.
As you just discovered from watching your revenue plummet, getting 50% paid customers from three times the installed base nets you more money.
A personal example: I used my parents' copy of TurboTax for a few years back in the early 90s. Starting sometime around 1995, I converted into a paying customer myself. My "theft' of your product *turned me into a customer*. I bought the product for years. This year you lost me, and you probably won't get me back.
It is casual copying that got Microsoft where they are today. That casual copying, in fact, turned them into the one of the most profitable companies in the world. Don't think their use of DRM is helping them; it is causing fragmentation in their customer base. People are now actively resistant to upgrading to the most recent versions of things, and this is providing competitors like Linux an opportunity to expand at their expense. You can't see it as much yet, because Microsoft is a monopoly, but DRM is hurting them. Think of it as cracks in the foundation.
Intuit isn't a monopoly and has competitors to all of its products. Your decision to try to limit casual copying and to treat customers like thieves hurt you badly. I'm a lost customer. I know there are lots of others. And I'm not at all sure you're going to get many of us back.
TaxCut is really quite good, and I imagine I'll be checking out Money soon. And I'll most likely make a dreaded casual copy of Money to do it. Microsoft may not know it, but they want me to do that; any chance of converting me from a "deadbeat" into a paying customer is better than the zero money they're making from me now.
And if a friend asks me "hey, what's the best software to track my checkbook?", and I answer "Microsoft Money", well.... suddenly the "Quicken is best" message is no longer unanimous and maybe Microsoft makes a sale.
They do not listen to customers, they listen to revenue. They put in DRM believing it would increase their revenue; as the article says, "[Intuit] predicted that revenue would increase, since customers who had previously purchased only one TurboTax program would have to buy a separate copy for each computer in the house". No part of that plan serves the customer. Similarly, the only reason they changed it is because they lost a ton of money.
It just so happened in this case that customers were able to weild enough power to hurt their revenues. Thinking that they "listened to customers" is to miss the fact that they would have continued to screw customers as long as they could have squeezed more revenue out of them by doing so. That they changed course here is not to their credit in any sense other than that they're not pathologically oblivious to the failure of their plan to screw customers.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
You know, if you want a fair and decent way to do product activation, maybe the idea of tying the product to a single computer is taking the wrong approach...
How about using some sort of portable id storage device (like a USB keydrive or a Dallas Semiconductor Crypto I-Button) to store the activation. No more concerns about installing the software on hundreds of computers. Just tie the id storage device to the software somehow, and take the id device where-ever you need to run the software from.
How hard is that?
Ron Gage - Westland, MI