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Linux Users Try FreeBSD 5, Windows

uninet writes "Most people know what GNU/Linux is, but fewer know about BSD and fewer still have actually used one of the major BSD variants (other than the highly customized Mac OS X). Ed Hurst, a writer and a long time GNU/Linux user, decided to give FreeBSD a try. Will Ed join the ranks of happy FreeBSD users? Find out at OfB.biz." And our own Roblimo, Windows-free for five years, has spent a week learning Windows XP.

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  1. My own experience from No Windows to XP... by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Alternate viewpoint on "switching from Linux to Windows".

    Some background: I had been a Windows user for a short time back in the Win 3.1 (and prior days). I had a 386SX-16 with 5mb of RAM so Windows wasn't terribly good. I used a lot of DOS programs and Desqview for task switching. I decided it was time to go to something decent and I switched to OS/2. It was a dream world for me, ran DOS, Windows, and OS/2 (and unix-based applications compiled for it). Then I went to Linux and stayed there from 1996 until 11/2002.

    Of course I had used Windows on school/friend's computers and was familiar with most of the applications for it. I was 100% against MS's evil empire and Bill's attempts to takeover the world.

    I was out of work for a short period of time and had been searching for a job for probably the nine or so months I was working in a hell hole. I was sending out my resumes as a TXT email or printed from Wordperfect for Linux. I got NO hits. My parents wanted to do video conferencing with me but we couldn't because Linux didn't support my USB camera well enough (and they didn't want to use anything other than Netmeeting). I acquired a 1.8Ghz e-machine in November of 2002. It came w/WindowsXP and I began to use that...

    First thing was switching away from the native XP interface to the Win2k look. Nice and comfortable. Second was installing Office (no problem, as a student it was $10). Third was using IRC (Cygwin + irssi). Last was getting used to IE from Mozilla (not a problem, Mozilla is slow, clunky, and doesn't support anything as easily as IE on Windows).

    Office was MUCH better than WP for Linux. Interoperability with EVERYONE else I knew. No converting and reformatting, no font problems, no nothing. It was fast, easy, and nice. IE was far superior to Mozilla. I never used tabs as Roblimo did and I never thought Mozilla was fast. I opened the browser and pages loaded faster, nice. I clicked on movies and low and behold codecs were downloaded automatically and the movies started playing (all without having to compile mplayer, get codecs, and fool with Mozilla to get it to play them).

    Upgrading Windows was easy. Either do it through the web or through the GUI. I didn't have to worry about dependencies breaking, problems with "stable", "unstable", or "seriously broken and use at your own risk".

    While I have complaints about Windows (still evil) I think it is a far superior experience to Linux.

    That's just my worthless .02

    1. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was 100% against MS's evil empire and Bill's attempts to takeover the world.

      I think this says something about the nature of Linux users' hatred of Windows. Most of the fanboys seem to think that dislike of windows for technical reasons is evidence that MS is evil, and that the fact that Windows is ahead in the "desktop war" means that Windows is terrible. No wonder so many people don't take you guys seriously, if you don't understand that those connections aren't logical.

      If you want to believe that Linux is technically better than Windows, fine. I happen to agree on that point. If you think that Microsoft is the evil empire, that's OK; you can form your own opinions. If you can't seperate the two ideas in your mind, then there's a problem, and you probably ought to reexamine your conclusions (or at least your mode of evangelism.)

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    2. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by reallocate · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Odds are you'll be pummeled for that post, but -- as I sit at my Linux box -- it occurs to me that I can't think of one desktop-oriented thing I do in Linux that I can't do in Windows or OSX.

      It is easy to find fault with Microsoft and Windows. Most of it is deserved. But, Linux has faults, too. One big problem is part and parcel of its evelopment modeL: Because there's no single entity setting and enforcing standards, the highly touted benefits of "choice" often become a crapshoot of conflicting libraries, packaging schemes, and software compiled by God-Knows-Who in God-Know-Where.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    3. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by garcia · · Score: 3, Interesting

      oh I know you *can* do the same things with Linux and I spent countless hours doing just that.

      It was just far easier to click on a movie and have IE open it (including downloading the codec) rather than having to compile mplayer (with GUI options), make sure it worked fullscreen with X options, and make sure I had the codecs.

      Or how about opening a Word document and making sure it looks identical to the one that was saved elsewhere?

    4. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by molarmass192 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, GnomeMeeting works with Netmeeting quite nicely, StarOffice is just as good if not superior to Office, and Mozilla renders pages faster than IE. Things have changed a bit since November 2002. The one thing I will give you is that XP does have more extensive hardware support but that's easily overcome by doing a little homework before buying any periphs. I don't know about XP having a "superior experience" to Linux, it's all about what you do with your OS, but it's certainly a different experience.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    5. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by syrinx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's interesting that you say you like IE over Moz.. while I do use Windows most of the time (FreeBSD the rest of the time; I never got into Linux much), I can't stand IE. It's to the point where I keep a copy of Firebird on my USB drive so I can quickly copy it to another computer I happen to be using, because IE is just so clunky and horrible to use. IMNSHO, of course. :)

      As for Office being better than WP, have you tried OpenOffice? Recently? It's been good for awhile, and still getting better. I haven't used WP since 5.1 for DOS, so I can't really comment on how well it works. But I had some bad experiences with MS Office a couple years ago, switched to OpenOffice, and haven't had any problems since then, with interoperability or anything else.

      Upgrading Windows is definitely easy (when it works and doesn't break stuff, that is). It took me a long time to figure out how to upgrade FreeBSD successfully, and I never really did figure it out for Linux.

      Basically, I rather like Windows 2000 and XP, they're very stable, and when you turn off all the extra flashy GUI shit, they're pretty nice to use. The main thing that keeps me from using FreeBSD as my main desktop system is hardware compatibility... I tried it for awhile, but everything always felt like it *sort of* worked, but not as well as it should be.

      However, Windows is the only MS product I use. I can't stand IE, like I said before, and I have no problems with not using MS Office. I don't even have MS hardware (I've always liked Logitech's stuff better).

      My $0.02.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    6. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Things changed a lot in the 6 years I was using Linux. Things had changed a lot in Windows as well.

      Windows doesn't crash anymore, Windows is easily updated, Windows is fast, etc.

      Linux has some application support, Linux *can* be easily updated, Linux is getting better, etc.

      They both have their good and bad points. That wasn't my intention for writing the post. It was to a) show that Windows is better for me than Linux b) that Roblimo was overly obnoxious in his review of his switch and c) using Windows in a Windows-world is far easier than trying to get Linux to stumble along in that same Windows-world.

    7. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by the_womble · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I was sending out my resumes as a TXT email or printed from Wordperfect for Linux.

      Why? Plain text is not going to make you look good and people may not be able to read WP. I always send documents like that as PDFs. I sent out dozens of CVs (resumes) last and only one person had trouble reading it (and most people replied so they had read it).

      IE from Mozilla (not a problem, Mozilla is slow, clunky, and doesn't support anything as easily as IE on Windows)

      This one is a matter of teast, I use both daily and prefer Moz to IE. I prefer Opera or Galeon to either.

      Office was MUCH better than WP for Linux.

      Ever had an interoperability problem with OPen Office? I never have: not for .docs, powerpoint presentations or spreadsheets.

      I didn't have to worry about dependencies breaking, problems with "stable", "unstable", or "seriously broken and use at your own risk".

      But you do need to worry about viruses, the main reason I switched to Windows. If you use IE and Outlook you should be really worried.

      It sounds as though you are comparing obsolete Linux software (WP for Linux is no longer supported AFAIK) with the latest Windows software, and I suspect you are running Linux on older hardware. Try comparing like with like and you may feel different. Also do not just compare on Windows strengths but Linux's as well.

    8. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by odie_q · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'd love to see a post from someone who's actually used Linux for years and gone to Windows for one reason or another

      I use Windows XP Pro at work, whilst being a long time Slackware user at home. Before Slackware I used various proprietary BASICs and a little DOS. At first I hated working in Windows. Nothing works the way you want it to. Printer drivers (I have never installed a single printer driver on my machine at home, my old HP Laser just works anyway) conflicting with each other, not being able to set the right screen frequency, because I need a monitor driver and so on.

      After learning all the little quirks (there are probably just as many oddities with GNU/Linux that I don't notice) I can now work efficiently with XP , but would never let it replace my beloved unix at home. As long as you're doing something anticipated by the programmers, Windows is beautifully simple to use. When you are trying to ad lib, your screwed. I suppose you could set Windows with lots of little helper programs and registry tweaks, but im Linux I don't have to.

      Examples:

      Get a file from a Mac user, who doesn't tag .doc and .xls on his Office file names and don't know what it is? Most unix filesystem browsers use file magic, and identify these files correctly.

      Want your MOD.* files to open with ModPlug Player when you click on them? Windows Explorer can't grok prefixes.

      Want to download a URL to a local file? Write an HTML document with a link, or download the Windows version of the standard GNU/Linux utility wget.

      Windows package management just simply sucks.

      Want to set reasonable defaults for new users, like how their Start Menu behaves or what theme they get? There might be a way to do this, but I still haven't figured out how.

      I have no idea how to download streamed media so I can watch it behind our corporate firewall. At home, this is my preferred way of watching online movies, due to bandwidth uncertainty.

      I have seen less than ten GNU/Linux crashes in my eight years of Linux experience. Last week, some program or other in my XP box had a BSoD shootout with my printer, but aside from that, I get perhaps one crash every two or three months, which is still a lot. This is not, I believe, caused by Windows, but rather by poor applications and drivers. Somehow, though, Windows seems to attract poor applications and drivers.

      Granted, a lot of my problems stem from me not knowing my way around the system, but I think this is why you don't see many "I switched to Windows" stories. People tend not to do this to themselves voluntarily.

      --
      ...ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
    9. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by AssFace · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I haven't run Mozilla or Firebird on Linux, so perhaps there it is really fast - but I have run it on WinXP and IE is TONS faster at absolutely everything, as well as consuming less processor and RAM than the other two.

      The last time I used Office was today, on XP. It was everything I wanted.
      The last time I used StarOffice was in 1998 - it was god awful and lacking in everything - it was to Office as WordPad is to Office.
      I would assume that StarOffice has come a long way since then - but I haven't used it.

      It seems to me that many people that make the sweeping generalizations haven't used the lessor side of the arguement in a long time - so they are comparing their old experiences with their new ones - I would hope that a newer version of a product with that much more time in development would be better than an older product.

      --

      There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
    10. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by b!arg · · Score: 2, Funny

      2K is good. I like it a lot better than XP even. Of course the machine I use XP on is not nearly the machine that my 2K machine is. I've had one blue screen in about 3 years and that was because I umm...pulled the IDE cable from the HD while machine was on...dumbass!

      --

      Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful
    11. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by JohnTheFisherman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems to partly go the other way around, but just as illogically - their hatred of the "Evil Empire(TM)" causes them to nit pick or outright fabricate technical issues with Windows. And the "popular == bad" theme is certainly tangible. It reminds me of Indie Rock Pete from Diesel Sweeties. ;)

      Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V is universal to Windows, Mac, and Linux. Deal with it. Windows Update lets you pick which items to install or not install. You can make yourself a non-priveleged user in WinXP too. And holding Linux up as an ease-of-install bar for Windows to meet is a joke.

      There are certainly issues (default user is admin, IE sucks, OE sucks...) but I don't know how a lot of these "Linux guy using Windows" complaints get created.

    12. Re: My own experience from No Windows to XP... by gidds · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Most of the fanboys seem to think that dislike of windows for technical reasons is evidence that MS is evil

      Some probably do, and as you imply, there's little reason for that.

      However, some of us think that M$ is evil for their business practices. Is it ethical to systematically buy out or destroy their competition? To deliberately spoil users' experience for the sake of market share? To use their massive cash pile and their monopoly in one field to (try to) gain it in others? To deliberately flout the legal system? And so on, and so on - the details have been debated enough already.

      (For example, what does it say about them that their most credible remaining competitor in the OS market is one that can't be bought out, sued to oblivion, 'partnered' into docility, embraced and extended, or any of their usual tactics?)

      If M$ behaved ethically, then their technical failings wouldn't be such a problem; people would be able to use alternatives, and M$ (like everyone else) would have the choice of improving their products or losing out. It's their immoral and illegal business practices that make such deep technical problems possible in the first place.

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    13. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by WNight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IE is only faster because it's pre-loaded and never seems to get completely swapped out. I've seen a situation where coming back from Quake3 at a lan party Notepad swapped to come up, but IE was there instantly. They can't possibly make a browser with less footprint than notepad so I assume they simply tweak swapping to keep IE available. Once IE and Mozilla are both up and fully out of cache the performance is only noticable when rendering test pages (tables in tables in tables, etc). I find that IE is faster at loading large pictures 2500x1800 or so, but that's the only noticable speed difference for me in general usage.

      btw, if you're an IE user, perhaps you can tell me how to make IE create new windows full-screened. I always full-screen my browsers and it's a pain that all new IE windows open using like a ninth of my screen. No matter if I close it while full-screened or anything.

    14. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by zrail · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing is, the linux server has been doing the same thing, over and over, for the past year. I'm willing to bet that its config hasn't been changed in that year at all.

      With the Windows machines, they're probably unstable because of the very fact that they're being used for development purposes, having libraries, IDEs, and other software packages installed, uninstalled, upgraded, updated, patched, etc.

      You can't really compare the two when they're not being used for the same purpose.

    15. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by Bull999999 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's a counter question. What if you don't have money to buy Windows and Office? And what if you don't want to be subjected to EULA?

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
    16. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by bigman2003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The author of the article referred to was obviously a Linux fanboy/zealot. And, I wonder if he has problems using a computer under ANY operating system.

      1- He complains that Windows Update doesn't tell him what it is doing. This is absolute crap- a lie. You have the option to see information about every patch it is applying, you can remove patches, there are direct links to very informative security bulletins telling you what the patch is all about. If the author considers himself technically minded, but didn't actually READ what was on the screen, that was his problem. But- he succeeded in installing the patches- and that is what is important. See- it's set up so even morons like him can do it.

      2- He couldn't figure out how to add icons in the 'bottom panel' (Taskbar) in Windows. Well, if he had tried to drag and drop, wonderful things would have happened. But, instead he sat there like a slack-jawed idiot, looking for problems. It takes about 2 seconds to add something to the taskbar, or the start menu.

      3- Once again, feigning (or proving) total ignorance, he didn't understand what these 'pop-up' ads are all about- and why can't IE get rid of them? True- IE out of the box will display pop-ups, but when you add the Google Toolbar (free) not only will it block pop-ups, but it will give you some awesome IE/Windows only tools right in your browser. The Google Toolbar is better than any similar thing I have seen in other browsers. The answer is out there. And it's free, and it's good.

      There were a lot of other problems I saw with his article. But because he was already preaching to the choir, most of it will just be greeted with silly smiles, and lots of head shaking. It must make him feel good to be surrounded by people who think the same way he does, and only make his half-hearted attempts at looking at other options.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    17. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by rutledjw · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Good post.

      I think that where Linux and BSD may get into the desktop is by starting on the server and workstation. If these two can prove their value in those arenas (and Linux clearly has on the server, BSD can but doesn't have the widespread use), I see an easier transition to the desktop.

      From my personal vantage point, the lack of thorough Java support on the BSDs is the biggest issue I have. There's SOME support, but not enough. We're a UNIX/Linux Java/J2EE shop (for the most part, there's some .net). My company is very much into using cutting/bleeding edge tech. We're using a lot of the IBM Blade servers, some 2U servers (345s), and some 4-8 way machines (both AIX and Linux). So we need to be able to get the OS working (some of these machines have seriously goofy hardware) and get Java working in a reliable fashion.

      Downloading source, compiling and installing the JDKs isn't going to make mgmt happy. The cutting edge thing has some limits.

      But if BSD DID have more native Java/J2EE support, we'd consider it more seriously. Until then, we're all Linux / AIX. It's cool with me, certianly better than windows...

      --

      Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    18. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by drwtsn32 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Drivers and applications don't crash operating systems.

      Applications don't crash Windows, but drivers certainly can. Drivers run at the privileged ring-0 (just like the kernel) and can do anything they want. Linux is the same as Windows in this regard.

    19. Re:My own experience from No Windows to XP... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 4, Insightful


      The author of the article referred to was obviously a Linux fanboy/zealot. And, I wonder if he has problems using a computer under ANY operating system.


      What's amusing about this article is that it is usually the other way around. It is quite often the Windows-centric viewpoint (and occaional "fanboy" or "zealot") making some half-true observations about a Linux desktop environment. Sometimes the observations are accurate. More often they show a lack of understanding or experience with the environment in question. And if the forum allows it, they are often followed by a string of replies from more experienced Linux users addressing the various issues outlined in the article.

      The article and discussions will be intermixed with additional banter. There will almost always be a Linux elitist disparaging the abilities of the author. And its just as likely that there will be a true Windows fanboy/zelot making snide comments about "defaults" and "standards" and "grandma" users being unable to make use of the information mentioned in the article responces.

      The interesting thing is that we're now to a point where names "Linux" and "Windows" are almost interchangable in these desktop environment conversations.
  2. "Most people know what GNU/Linux is..." by reallocate · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Betcha they don't.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  3. Don't bother reading the second article by bconway · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's not a review of Windows XP, but rather a series of old stereotypes and jokes about Windows that we've heard a million times. If you want a serious, objective review of XP in the same manner that you see Linux distributions reviewed, you should look elsewhere.

    --
    Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
    1. Re:Don't bother reading the second article by Kyouryuu · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Yeesh, no kidding. I haven't heard someone kick and scream so loudly about ctrl-c and ctrl-v before. At least Windows has this support consistent across programs - I've had more than a few weird idiosyncracies between differing Linux programs and cutting/pasting to and from them, though it's much improved with today's distributions than before.

      It's hardly an objective review for several reasons. One, a lot of major programs available for Linux are likewise available for Windows. Even though I run Windows XP most of the time, most of the applications are free, open-source alternatives like Gaim, Mozilla, and OpenOffice. These are all nearly effortless to install under Windows. Unless they come as a package or has a nice install script, it's not as quick or easy to install most programs under Linux. But really, he can't complain about Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, or any of those. He has just as much choice as on a Linux system to pick a different program to suit his needs.

      He couldn't figure out how to add things to the taskbar. Click and drag. You might have heard of this amazing technique before. Now, admittedly, I think taskbar optimization is a bit easier under Linux (especially under KDE), but let's not kid ourselves - it's not horrendously difficult under Windows.

      He complains about forced downloading of patches, which is something you can disable. But let's be honest - critics of Microsoft can't have this both ways. They complain when it pesters the user about updating, and then they complain when people don't update because of the bugs that proliferate. It's circular damned-if-I-do-damned-if-I-don't logic. Dare I say, to fully update a distribution like Red Hat 9.0 takes little over 300 megs worth of downloads. Thankfully, you can save the patches off in both OSes for a later point in time and burn them to CD.

      Lastly, he doesn't play computer games, which is perhaps the single greatest reason why people would choose a Windows desktop over a Linux desktop. There just aren't many professional games being written around Linux. Linux mainly gets ports or has to run them through Wine or WineX. Epic Games, at least for UT2003, made the smart move of bundling the Linux version on the Windows CDs (albeit it only worked for NVidia cards and had a clunky install procedure). As time passes, we'll definitely see this trend change, but for now most games are very Windows-centric. There aren't enough Linux users to warrant a store carrying a seperate boxed edition, so what Epic did was the best solution.

      For what the writer of the article needs his PC for, Linux is certainly more than enough. It is superb for day-to-day office work, e-mail, and Internet browsing. It is superb as, in general, a desktop operating system. But for the gamer like me, it's hard to switch away from Windows since most games are written for Windows.

  4. Site Slashdotted by Sir+Haxalot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Google Cache of main page here

    --
    I have over 70 freaks, do you?
  5. Just read the first paragraph by Strudelkugel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, a question: What's up with all this "Ctrl C" and Ctrl V" copy/paste stuff? In almost all Linux programs, when I want to copy a block of text (or a graphic or whatever) I just highlight the original, then click both mouse buttons (or the middle button if I have a 3-button mouse) where I want to paste it. This is fast, easy, and takes little hand motion on my laptop keyboard. All this Ctrl key action slows me down. I don't know about the rest of the world, but I need to work quickly if I want to earn a living, and I don't see why Windows wants me to go through all those extra hand motions just to paste a URL into a story.

    A week goes by and he couldn't figure out how to use the 2nd mouse button? Is this review a spoof?

    --
    Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
    1. Re:Just read the first paragraph by javatips · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just that. It's the first time I hear a Linux user complaining about keyboard shortcuts. In general it's a lot faster to work with the keyboard than with the mouse.

  6. Copy/Paste by DrEldarion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First, a question: What's up with all this "Ctrl C" and Ctrl V" copy/paste stuff? In almost all Linux programs, when I want to copy a block of text (or a graphic or whatever) I just highlight the original, then click both mouse buttons (or the middle button if I have a 3-button mouse) where I want to paste it. This is fast, easy, and takes little hand motion on my laptop keyboard. All this Ctrl key action slows me down. I don't know about the rest of the world, but I need to work quickly if I want to earn a living, and I don't see why Windows wants me to go through all those extra hand motions just to paste a URL into a story. Geh.

    You do realize that in Windows you can highlight the text, then right click on it to bring up a menu with Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste, Delete, and Select All, right?

    -- Dr. Eldarion --

  7. Completely cocked "review" by brundlefly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't really care if he's an editor or not, writing a "review" of Windows XP whose basic premise is "It's not like Linux, and all the Linux software I like is different on it" is drivel.

    He just went from a manual stickshift to an automatic and is still expecting to control the shifting as usual. I'd call this stupid user behavior, except that I know he's not stupid. He's just trying to make a (redundant) point in a (troll) heavy-handed fashion. Which is fine I suppose, except that it seems a little beneath the editorial bar for the front page of Slashdot.

    1. Re:Completely cocked "review" by nathanh · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I don't really care if he's an editor or not, writing a "review" of Windows XP whose basic premise is "It's not like Linux, and all the Linux software I like is different on it" is drivel.

      Well, I think it's amusing because I still remember the various "reviews" of Linux that basically made the same "It's not like Windows therefore it sucks" comments.

  8. No kidding by Soulfader · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The smarmy attitude got to me after a few paragraphs. "What's this 'Microsoft Internet Explorer' thing that I keep hearing about? It's profoundly inferior to everything I've ever used. People say it's popular, but they must be lying to me because it doesn't have tabbed browsing, and who can use the web without tabbed browsing?"

    Sorry, but that gets old awfully damned fast. I've been using Red Hat at home exclusively for the last 7 months or so (since I got laid off and had time to really learn to use it), and while I much prefer it to Windows--even Win2k, of which I am rather fond--the difference isn't so incredibly huge that I would rather eat a Windows CD than install it.

    Also, half of his problems seem to be with Windows APPS, rather than Windows. Nothing is keeping you from using a lot of the same apps in Windows, friend. When I do log in to my wife's Win2k box at home, I use OpenOffice, XChat, Gaim, and Mozilla Firebird--the same apps I use on my RH box.

    How about some honest advocacy on the strengths of alternate operating systems? That would do more to show options to people who don't know they've got them. This kind of drek doesn't help anyone.

    1. Re:No kidding by _xeno_ · · Score: 3, Informative
      I'm really, really, really honestly hoping that this article was a parody of the "I tried Linux after being a Windows user for 23 years!" type of articles we see in the "mainstream press." (And, yes, the number of years is intentionally wrong.)

      If taken in that light, it could be a kind of amusing parody showing someone coming from the Linux viewset getting annoyed at features that Linux applications have that Windows applications do not. Like authors who seem to go out of their way to not understand some Linux-ism, he's going out of his way to strictly apply the way Linux works to a Windows desktop, and showing where it fails.

      Given articles decrying Linux basically for being Linux, a parody article decrying Windows for being Windows could be rather amusing. I'm hoping this article was a joke, but I can't find anything within it that would suggest that it was. If it's not a joke, then I agree with you 100% - this article was annoying drek and not worth the time I spent to read it.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  9. Slack to BSD by Follis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When I was a freshman I started running servers for me and my friends (and about 30 other users). This was mostly an experimental network, for my, and other's learning purposes. I started out using slackware (which is STILL the only linux I will use) on all of my servers. This did work well, until Netatalk stopped working with the latest version of slack (I think they changed TCPWrappers and NetaTalk hadn't cought up yet). I then was forced to move to FreeBSD. I will never, ever, ever go back. System Admin under BSD is silky smooth and DAMN fast. The way I think about it is that BSD has had 30 years of lazy system admins working on it. Linux has a few years to go.

  10. Re:GNU/Linux by Sir+Haxalot · · Score: 4, Informative

    What is this GNU/Linux you speak of?
    The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system. (GNU is a recursive acronym for "GNU's Not Unix"; it is pronounced "guh-NEW".) Variants of the GNU operating system, which use the kernel Linux, are now widely used; though these systems are often referred to as "Linux", they are more accurately called GNU/Linux systems.

    --
    I have over 70 freaks, do you?
  11. Roblimo's Linux--Windows Experience... by John_Booty · · Score: 4, Informative

    The first thing that happened after I fired up Windows XP is that it virtually ordered me to download a series of patches. I did so, but it wasn't like a SuSE update where you see every patch available and can say "yes" or "no" to each one if you like. The Windows update process told me nothing except that it was happening, and that I needed to reboot when it was over. A Windows-using friend said, "Yes, that's the way it works, and if you don't do the updates your computer keeps annoying you, so you have to do them even if they take hours like they sometimes do."

    I don't know what he's talking about. By default (a stock Windows XPPro install) Windows will download updates in the background, and let you know when they're ready to install. You then have the option of saying "yes, install them now", "no, install them later", or you can click a button (labeled "Details...", I think) to see exactly which updates have been downloaded, and choose precisely which ones you'd like to install. I don't often give a lot of love to Microsoft, but I actually like the way they've handled the Windows Update thing- it's automatic and painless by default but you can have fine-grained control (or disable it totally) if you like.

    So I find his claims really false- it sounds like he missed the "Details..." button. It's possible that the pre-installed copy of XP on his laptop was configured by the OEM (Toshiba) to work differently than a "stock" WinXP install, but if he's gonna write an article (and presumably get paid for it) then it's really his duty to figure that out.

    I don't know if that's the case, just saying it's possible. In my opinion, anybody who is going to review an OS should really be reviewing a stock install, not some pre-configured OEM install that might differ from the "standard" experience.

    At any rate, I'm only a couple of paragraphs into his review, and already I can't take anything he says seriously because there's such a glaring error right off the bat. Nice job.

    --

    OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    1. Re:Roblimo's Linux--Windows Experience... by John_Booty · · Score: 3, Interesting

      More problems with the review.

      My copy of Windows XP Pro seems to have a program included with it called 'Windows Messenger' that, as far as I can tell, is some sort of ad delivery mechanism. I haven't figured out how to turn it off. It is very annoying. Linux doesn't have anything like this program, or if it does I've never installed or used it. In any case, I lived for many years without being bombarded by 'Windows Messenger' ads that pop up in the middle of whatever I'm trying to do, and I won't miss them when I go back to Linux.

      Okay... Windows Messenger is a horrible, horrible feature and I hate how it's enabled by default. Still, Control Panel-->Admin Tools-->Services-->Windows Messnger. Then pick "disable". Not terribly intuitive, but incredibly easy to do... and if you type "disable Windows Messenger" in Google there are ZILLIONS of results telling you how to do this.

      If he wants to bash Windows for including this feature, fine. Agreed. But to say he couldn't figure out how to do it is complete nonsense. Has he heard of Google?

      Not only that, I found the program much harder to use and less intuitive than XChat. Even after a week, I still haven't figured out how to add a new network to it easily, a function that is simple as pie in XChat. Given a choice, I'd rather pay for XChat than for mIRC. It's better software.

      Is he joking? You can add new networks to mIRC right from the dialog box you use to connect to a server, unless they've radically changed it in the last year or so. It also has a nice online help file. Saying "he couldn't figure it out in a week" makes me wonder how he learned how to *breathe*, much less *run an operating system*.

      As for XChat simply being "better" than mIRC, that's highly subjective and I won't come down on one side or the other from lack of experience with XChat. However, mIRC has some incredibly deep features such as an extremely powerful built-in programming language. To say "XChat>mIRC" right off the bat, when you haven't even figured out how to add a server, is ridiculous.

      One of the worst articles I've read from the Slashdot crew, and that's saying a lot. He makes a lot of good points (bashing IE/Outlook) but they're lost in the din of his obnoxious cluelessness.

      --

      OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    2. Re:Roblimo's Linux--Windows Experience... by CromeDome · · Score: 2, Informative

      If he's that annoyed, he could easily turn off the automatic updates too:

      Start > Settings > Control Panel > System > Automatic Updates > Uncheck "Keep my computer up to date..."

    3. Re:Roblimo's Linux--Windows Experience... by frankie · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I find his claims really false- it sounds like he missed the "Details..." button.

      Duh. That's the whole point of the article. IT'S SATIRE. His Linux-to-Windows review is written from exactly the same perspective as the many Windows-to-Linux reviews that you see in the mainstream press. The viewpoint of someone who is not an alpha geek and doesn't feel comfortable wandering around this strange new OS. Did you notice his intentional usage of the phrase "not ready for the desktop"?

      An ordinary person (raised on some mythical Microsoft-free island) using an OEM-default Windows PC would have an experience 95% like Roblimo's.
  12. Good points, but there are bad points. by sjwt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "First, a question: What's up with all this "Ctrl C" and Ctrl V" copy/paste stuff? In almost all Linux programs, when I want to copy a block of text (or a graphic or whatever) I just highlight the original, then click both mouse buttons (or the middle button if I have a 3-button mouse) where I want to paste it."

    Id blame your mouse driver, you shoudl be able
    to remap if you want, otherwise try right click
    and select, if your copying that much text a day
    that the second click will cost you time then i woudl relay like to know what your doing..
    Id like to know how you suvied when ctrl-v/c was
    the fastest way.. rembere before mice where had
    caught on.

    "The first thing that happened after I fired up Windows XP is that it virtually ordered me to download a series of patches. I did so, but it wasn't like a SuSE update where you see every patch available and can say "yes" or "no" to each one if you like."

    Ok, so i havent used windows update in a good
    year, but i clearly rembere being able to review
    and select which updates you wanted.

    "Yes, that's the way it works, and if you don't do the updates your computer keeps annoying you, so you have to do them even if they take hours like they sometimes do."

    Thats funny, see above point.

    "but I think this lack of security for software installation may be one of the causes of the hidden spyware problems I keep reading about Windows users having,"

    Acttuly most uses chose to install the programs
    that have spyware in them, so having to type
    a password will only slow it down, if you chose
    to install program X and its got spyware in it,
    having to typing your password makes no differnce

    "First really rude surprise: mIRC costs $20. It isn't free like XChat. Supposedly you get a free 30 day trial, but my copy started blinking "your evaluation time is up" each time I started it after the 3rd day. Apparently the mIRC developers have a slight math problem."

    And this is a problem with windows how??
    ID talk to Mirc about that, hevens forbid having
    to pay for a computer program.

    "It doesn't have the tabbed browser feature that makes work-related research (and pleasure reading) such a pleasure in Mozilla, Opera, and other modern browsers. "

    Ok, so ive never used tabed broswers, but how
    about the tabed Taskbar that is on by default..
    dose that compare?? if it dose, i turn it off anyway :)

    "Why people will pay to have Explorer's popup feature shut off instead of simply downloading free Mozilla and clicking on a couple of little boxes to decide what they will allow Web servers to do to their browser windows escapes me."

    probly because you can get free popup blocking software too.

    "This experiment lasted less than 1/2 hour. I downloaded 2 'passes' worth of email and had to wade through over 200 spams to read 3 useful emails. I (heart) Mozilla's Bayesian spam filters. I will no longer use an email program that doesn't have fast, automatic, easy-to-use spam filtering."

    once agine ive had no expreance with Mozilla,
    but in under 5 mins i set up my mail rules and
    i lower my daily spam from 200 to about 10,
    but then even then i do check, never relay on
    spamfiltering, everynow and then something gets
    filterd out, and it may be that new higher paying
    job interview.

    "Please don't argue with me about this. I don't get paid a percentage for each (free) Mozilla download this article generates. I'm telling you to dump Outlook for your own good. Really."

    same for me.

    "My copy of Windows XP Pro seems to have a program included with it called 'Windows Messenger' that, as far as I can tell, is some sort of ad delivery mechanism. I haven't figured out how to turn it off."

    ok, ill give the turning it off to you, took
    me a good 10 mins, but as for ad delivery, i get
    more on ICQ.

    "I haven't figured out how to put app icons on the Windows bottom panel. I don't even know if it can b

    --
    You have 5 Moderator Points!
    Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
  13. Bah by Soulfader · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I'm still reading. This annoys me greatly:
    The bottom panel on my KDE desktop is filled with icons for my 'daily use' applications. No matter how covered my screen is with applications windows (and it is almost always fully covered), I can click on a panel icon and open a new app. I haven't figured out how to put app icons on the Windows bottom panel. I don't even know if it can be done. Perhaps it can only be done by smart Windows geeks, but not by simple-minded Linux people like me.
    This attitude really pisses me off. While the mechanics are slightly different on my RedHat box, it's not so different that one couldn't figure it out by playing. My father-in-law can; I think this guy could, too, if he wasn't so busy being not-a-smart-Windows-geek.

    It's Windows. Millions of AOL users can figure it out. If you say you can't, you're either lazy or lying. It's not rocket science; it's not even model rocket science.

  14. Not the point by vasqzr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Count the movement:

    Drag mouse over text
    Right-Click
    Select 'Copy'
    Move cursor to new location
    Right-click
    Select 'Paste'

    Drag mouse over text
    Move cursor to new location
    Click both buttons

    3 less clicks

  15. Those who know have been using FreeBSD... by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Informative
    I orginally got my start in Web-site, ecommerce, consulting in particluar hardware. FreeBSD has been my #1 choice as a *iux based server for years. I tried ditching Windows for Linux and along came OSX. So when it came time to replace my Sony laptop, I purchased an iBook.

    Recently my business partner and I moved to an office, we were getting enough business, so I decided that I'd DL the latest FreeBSD ISO's and formatted over my Linux drive with FreeBSD 5-Current. Gee, with KDE 3 and everything, I couldn't notice any whopping difference. The OSS desktop community doesn't cater to FreeBSD as FreeBSD proably still has its place on my Racks as a server, but when we hire a secetary, looks like she will get the FreeBSD tower with Openoffice instead of Linux.

    Biggest thing I think, is that FreeBSD still has the old text based installer, but its not as ass backwards as say 2.2 or 3.4. For most noob's the YaST in SuSE and whatever it is on RH is very pleasing and better to use. Plus Linux gets support for the latest and greatest in hardware with drivers, etc.

    But if your just looking for a nice, stable, OS, you can't loose with either FreeBSD or Linux. Especially if you use Gnome or KDE. Looks the same, and proably 99.95% of the people would never know.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  16. Bad reporting from Roblimo by Mwongozi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Aside from the really obvious massive bias that Roblimo has, he's completely anti-Windows even before he starts, lets rebut a few points:

    (Note: I'm defending Windows in the interests of fairness. I am in fact a Macintosh user.)

    1. mIRC does not blink "Your evaluation time is up", it's just a registration reminder. In fact, you can use it forever without registering, although this is morally and legally questionable, it never stops working.

    2. He couldn't work out how to add a new network to mIRC in two weeks? I honestly do not believe him. He's either lying, not trying, or really, really dumb.

    3. "I have heard that over 90% of all Web-connected people in the world use this browser, but I find this hard to believe." You do? No, of course you don't. You're just trolling. (Although the point about Mozilla being superior is well taken. It is.)

    4. "My copy of Windows XP Pro seems to have a program included with it called 'Windows Messenger' that, as far as I can tell, is some sort of ad delivery mechanism." It was at this point that I realised this was not a genuine attempt to learn Windows, it's mostly a giant Windows flame-fest.

    Even the sarcastic comment about Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V at the top is rendered utterly pointless by the end of the story, where he admits that in fact it's simply what you're used to.

    What a waste of time that article was.

  17. Linux and OpenBSD user by Alioth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've never used Free or NetBSD. In fact, I'd not used the BSDs at all (apart from SunOS 4.x which is BSD-derived) until recently. I've been using Linux since January 1992.

    What I felt about OpenBSD? Having heard of OpenBSD's security reputation, and the goodness of 'pf', I wanted to evaluate it to replace a CheckPoint FireWall 1 system (expensive software rental that MS can only dream of). I had already determined that OpenBSD will do all the things we currently do with CheckPoint.

    Installation - it felt like installing SLS or Slackware back in 1994. Now that's not all negative - I had OpenBSD installed and ready in minutes and all off a single CD. Deciding to investigate further features of OpenBSD, I started doing a desktop install - put X on first (and got X and fvwm95 - I'd forgotten how fast X is with a simple UI). I then decided to install KDE from ports as I was missing Konqueror too much.

    Evaluation: Ports is nice, but apt-get is better.
    KDE works pretty much like it does under Linux.
    Compiling stuff from source seems to all work the same way. Mostly you can find it in ports, but I've built a few other things too.

    Things I miss: Other than Debian's apt, I really miss the /proc filesystem and 'killall '. Also, the ability to run User Mode Linux (or in this case, it'd be User Mode OpenBSD).

    However, for the real eval, I was mostly looking at pf and altq.

    I think OpenBSD shines here. The syntax of pf rules in pf.conf is far clearer than Linux iptables. Also, altq (for queuing and traffic control) has much easier syntax than the Linux equivalent. I don't have to go diving for the FAQ - the manual page for pf.conf is clear, concise and understandable and makes constructing the pf.conf rules file a piece of cake.

    Generally, I'm impressed with OpenBSD, particularly having a compact default install which is very useful if you want something as a firewall or a server. Although I will stick with Linux (Debian for servers, RedHat for desktops), for firewalling, my future installations will be OpenBSD due to the ease of use and power of pf and altq.

    1. Re:Linux and OpenBSD user by baldusi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I had a similar path. I use mostly Windows workstations (I'm an Elder Scrolls addict :-). But mostly with OoO, Mozilla, The Bat!, and gretl (econometrics, never mind).
      But on the servers I use exclusively Linux. I started with a Slackware with a 1.3 development kernel. Thou I didn't really got into Linux until RH 5.0. I'd been Netware guy before. Anyway. Around 2000 I bought an OpenBSD 2.7 for a firewall (it used ipf by that time). And inmediately fall in love with it. I't an amazing firewal/router. And over the years I've come to understand that what seems like a spartan install it's actually the only OS I can install in under 5 minutes. Besides I can have an aditional site00.tgz with all my config files so if I burn the CD myself I can have the server up and running in 5 minutes. Just amazing.
      Since I use it only for router/firewall (dhcp, ntp, dns, vpn and all this little services) I've never installed X. But I've found a couple of things. Once you understan to use the man page and the FAQ it's the easiest, simplest system around. Do you have a dubt about how to configure anything? use man. Have a dubt about a system interace? use man. Have a dubt about the syntax of a command? use man. Compare this to the HOW-TO, man, info, hadnbook, mailing list, googling of any Linux instalation.
      And the other thins that sold me is the IPv6 support. Everything works with it. You can have the reference IKA implementation (see WIDE.org) running on IPv6. I couldn't believe when I bought my XP laptop that I was actually seeing the KAME turtle swimming! And this was thanks to my router that had hidden all the uglies of IPv6 configuration. It's even hardware accelerated (Linux, NetBSD and FreeBSD guys had to import the crypto framework from OpenBSD).
      I can't really not mention the true jewel of OpenBSD, pf. It simply has, quite simply, the most awesome team of developers on IP filtering around. I was used to the Linux world when someone came with a stateless ip firewall. Then someone else came with a NAT extension. Then they rewrote the filter with the nat extension. Then there was a couple of projects with quality of service. Then they rewrote the whole thing to make it pseudostateful. Then, some patches crept out for some foo. And so you want to hide the amount of PC you're NATing? Find the patch and hope it's compatible. Want to use strong sequence numbers for all broken client's? Hope there's a patch somewhere.
      With pf you have twice a year the guy telling the new features they integrate for the next OS version. They went form making it a 80% of pf in three monthes, to making it 120% in the next six. Then they integrated accounting, bandwidth and pririty queuing, tagging at the ethernet level, IPSec level, dinamic inclusion and deletion of rules as well as addresses on tables. And so many things I can't even remember.
      And all the meanwhile you have the little treats like the week next to the paper explaining how to count the number of clients behind NAT, thay integrated a new keword that defeated it. Ditto for the weak sequence numbers. Ditto for the spam tarpit. And the unbelivable thing is: I could use the same configuration file from the very first pf version. And mostly form any ipf version. I had to rewrite it to take advantage of new features, but that's expected.
      So I'm absolutely sold to OpenBSD on the router. For the server I'm still a Gentoo guy. I might try a bit of FreeBSD or RedHat when they get their act together with AMD64. But for now it's kind of the perfect combination.

    2. Re:Linux and OpenBSD user by aschlemm · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've switched my firewall away from Linux to OpenBSD for the same reason that "pf" and "altq" are really great and the "pf" syntax is just so much easier to write and understand IMHO. I say this after using both the older "ipchains" and newer "iptables" under Linux. I maintain a couple of development severs at work and so I still use "iptables" when I have no choice. If anyone asks me for a suggestion for a firewall I suggest a dual-homed OpenBSD system hands down. It only takes a few configuration files to be setup to getting a working setup.

      For my own uses I keep my OpenBSD configuration files in RCS and so when I do a new install of it I slap my configuration files on the box and I've got a new working system going very quickly. This is really great since my firewall hardware is rather old and so I actually have one box running as my firewall and then have a second OpenBSD firewall all patched up and ready to go so if my primary unit goes down. I'm comtemplating a 3rd firewall box so I can have a test one that I can install new versions of OpenBSD as they are made available. 3.4 is coming the beginning of November.

      I've even pulled out my 12 year old 486DX/33 system from mothballs and with $17.00 worth of upgrades from the local PC recycler (EISA SCSI controller, EISA network card, and 1GB SCSI2 drive), the box is now pulling print server duty for Linix and Windows system in our office using Samba, "apsfilter" and "ghostscript". OpenBSD is a nice small OS that leaves lots of room for spooling print jobs on a 1GB disk. About the only down side is it requires a bit of disk space to keep all of the source available for patches and building new releases. I build my own release on a box I have with a large hard drive and copy my built release to the other less capable OpenBSD boxes using "scp", and "ssh" to update the boxes remotely.

    3. Re:Linux and OpenBSD user by KrispyKringle · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I use OpenBSD on my personal web and mail server, but for a project involving building a wireless access point out of a Soekris board (they're 486-based embedded system platforms; I think they were featured here on /. before) I chose Linux. The AP has to do authentication, and NAT those connections that are authenticated.

      I looked at OpenBSD, but--and I'll admit, I'm not that familiar with pf--if I'm not mistaken it isn't possible to actually set the index of a rule for evaluation like one can do with iptables -I. So for example, the default rule is deny all, nat outgoing tcp/80 to the authentication server. If someone is authenticated, a rule for his MAC needs to be evaluated above that default rule. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to set precedence of evaluation. I can't imagine this is totally impossible, though, so if anyone knows...?

      Other than that, I have to agree with your comments. Ports are largely comparable to apt, though perhaps not quite as good (FreeBSD ports are a bit more polished, and by the way, Open suggests that you use packages as they are more frequently maintained). Other than that, configurations are slightly different, but overall behavior is largely the same. Faster, more secure, and more stable much of the time, though.

  18. Re:Ports vs. Apt-get by UnassumingLocalGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Go install portupgrade (/usr/ports/sysutils/portupgrade). Then, cvsup your ports tree, and run "portsdb -Uu". (You need to do this after every time you cvsup the ports tree.) After that, installing ports is as easy as typing in "portinstall foo". You say you like packages? Add the -P switch, as in "portinstall -P foo" to look for a package, and install from source if that fails, or "portinstall -PP foo" to install exclusively from a package.

    --
    "Hu, ho, ho-ah-oh-oh-oh. Hu, ho ho-ah-oh-oh-oh. Mario Paint! Whoaaa!"
  19. Re:Tried FreeBSD... by trippinonbsd · · Score: 3, Informative

    a)
    1. Find name of package you need
    2. Find the package
    3. Download package you need
    4. Build package you need
    5. Find and download any and all dependencies (the real time consumption)
    6. make install

    The order is more like this.
    a) to build from source
    1. Find name of package (either via `cd /usr/ports && make search name=packagename`) or though browsing the online ports collection.
    2. cd to the port dir
    3. `make install clean`

    b) to get pre-compiled source
    1. Find name of package (either via `cd /usr/ports && make search name=packagename`) or though browsing the online ports collection.
    2. `pkg_add -rv packagename`

    For example I can install kde in either 5-10 mins or 2-3 hours. The FreeBSD has many more options and is very powerful. A look at the ports man page and all of the pkg_* tool's man pages would revel alot of extra usage.

    Two useful articles from onlamp:
    Ports Tricks
    Cleaning and Customizing Your Ports

  20. Extremists... by msimm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are in every camp. NBD. Don't let the few color your view of us all.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  21. Nit-pickers... by msimm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Windows bashings aside (it is getting old) but the new found fashionability of 'Linux' bashing is pretty silly.

    Can't think of one thing you can't do on Windows (95/98/NT/2000/XP)? Let me give you a hand: Fire up Mplayer to watch any video you want. Interpolate with a large number of different machines. Secure your network. Remote X Session over ssh.

    I'm just throwing out what's on the top of my head, but you get the point. 'Linux' isn't perfect, of course not. But it isn't less then Windows and has strengths that make a highly technical group very fond of it.

    Linux bashers and Windows apologists are just as pointless as their Linux/BSD/Mac counterparts.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  22. Re:I couldnt use FreeBSD by vcbumg2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    AH.. I am not sure what it is but the arrogance comes AFTER using a BSD for a while... keep working at it and you will get there if you are as smart as me ;)

    --

    projects @ http://spectechnologies.net

  23. RobLimo was biased, here's why by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Rob's article was incredibly biased. His first complaint is about copying and pasting, which is simply a result of the fact he's used to the other method. No method is greater than the other.

    Then he says Windows "ordered" him to download patches, and that it didn't tell him what they were or whether or not he could install them. This is COMPLETELY FALSE. Windows Update, whether in IE or in the system tray, allows you to view every patch. If it's the system tray app, it lets you uncheck any patch you don't want. If it's the website, you can click the button to remove it from installation.

    Then he complains that Windows doesn't come with office productivity software, which is a little bizarre considering you know he'd be bitching about Microsoft and their monopolistic practice of including an office suite. They're damned either way.

    He mentioned installing mIRC didn't require a root password, and goes on to mention spyware problems. Of course, his account is set up with administrator privileges, and if he was set to a limited account, he could prevent installation and so forth. The standard Slashdot argument against this is that installation should ask you to do this by default, but since we're dealing with RobLimo the Suse Linux user, you'd think that'd be the first thing he do anyway due to Linux experience with managing user accounts. But, of course, now it is a "security risk."

    Then his complaints are with mIRC and his inability to uncheck the dialog box so it stops popping up. At this point, I stared at the screen with my jaw dropped. Was RobLimo purposely being stupid? I've used xchat and mIRC, and mIRC wins hands-down as an IRC client. Even if you don't like mIRC, it's so customizable you can create your own IRC client using its scripting capabilities. xchat is godawful, interface-wise and customizability-wise.

    But, again, that has nothing to do with Windows. In fact, xchat for Windows works just fine (and retains the ugly-ass GTK widgets), so RobLimo should have stuck with it, but he needed something to complain about, right?

    He rightfully complains about Internet Explorer, but then waits four hours before bothering to get Mozilla (Opera is the best one anyway, just not free). He just needed to bitch about Internet Explorer for a paragraph, when most Linux users switching to Windows wouldn't bother with IE to begin with. He's purposely dumbing down his using experience to complain about Windows.

    He does the same for Outlook Express. Why would he use Outlook Express if he just downloaded Mozilla? Again, he's purposely dumbing down his using experience to have more complaints. His spam comments don't even affect me since I use Outlook 2003 which has great built-in junk mail filtering.

    Windows Messenger is easy to disable from starting up. Especially for an advanced Linux user like RobLimo. Another biased complaint.

    Apparently, RobLimo's only slowdown problem is CTRL-C and CTRL-V. Of course, for Windows users, those are incredibly fast shortcuts for them. I use them all the time. If this is all he can offer alongside pointless IE/OE bitching, there is no other point for his article than to be Windows flamebait. In fact, I find it amusing he complains about the copy/paste shortcuts and ignores the fact that Linux can barely copy/paste anything between apps. With Windows, it's almost sickening what you can play around with and copy between apps. But that never gets mentioned. In fact, there are no real positives mentioned.

    RobLimo vaguely mentions "slowdowns" and "idle time" problems. Huh? Nice specifics, there. I've experienced weird little quirks in all Linux distributions as well. I chalked it up to cache flushes, swap space, whatever. Since RobLimo never, ever mentions what exactly he's talking about, we'll never know what he meant.

    Then he goes on to mention "little specialty programs" that he would have to pay for on Windows, which, of course is false. There is tons of freeware for Windows,

    --
    "Sufferin' succotash."
  24. The author installed the wrong version of FreeBSD. by Brett+Glass · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FreeBSD 5.x is clearly documented as being still "alpha-quality" and is certainly not for newcomers. 4.8-RELEASE (preferably with patches, since 4.9 is almost done) or 4.9-RELEASE (due in a week) would have been the proper platform for this new user.

  25. ctrl-c/ctrl-x/ctrl-v by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, a question: What's up with all this "Ctrl C" and Ctrl V" copy/paste stuff? In almost all Linux programs, when I want to copy a block of text (or a graphic or whatever) I just highlight the original, then click both mouse buttons (or the middle button if I have a 3-button mouse) where I want to paste it. This is fast, easy, and takes little hand motion on my laptop keyboard. All this Ctrl key action slows me down.

    Try this with your "quick" Linux way of doing it. Grab a URL into your clip board. Now, in your web browser, replace the URL in the address bar with the one you just copied. Not so quick now, eh?

    Most software designers realize that the act of highlighting text may not be indicative of a will to copy that piece of text. I might just want to delete it, or paste something in its place. It is impossible to paste over in the standard X way of doing it. Thankfully, most modern apps keep a separate clipboard so that I can use the keys, too. But if I'm stuck with a lame system that automatically copies my text to the clipboard when I highlight it, I'm screwed.

    A lot of what I read in this is, not surprisingly, the same sort of goofy stuff that I read about people trying to come to Linux from Windows. Rather than think about why something works the way it does, they automatically assume it's stupid because it's not exactly the way they've always done it.

    Windows users think Macs are lame because they have only one mouse button. Unix users think both are lame because they don't have three buttons. And yet, oddly, people are able to accomplish tasks on all three.

    And I hate to say it, but surely there's a free irc client for Windows. Hell, even Microsoft used to have one (comic chat) that passed as a pretty good irc client (you could disable the comic characters).

  26. Copy and Paste by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2, Insightful
    First, a question: What's up with all this "Ctrl C" and Ctrl V" copy/paste stuff? In almost all Linux programs, when I want to copy a block of text (or a graphic or whatever) I just highlight the original,
    (emphasis mine)

    The problem here is that "almost all" isn't good enough.

    At least in the Windows world, Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V work on "all" applications - none of this "almost" stuff.

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  27. I hate Roblimo by Yoweigh116 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Copied from a post I made at Newsforge:

    "You know, I use XP Pro, and the main reason I've never switched to Linux (I've tried) is because people like him would mock me whenever I had a question. The Linux community is both its best asset and its worst enemy.

    Some people don't want to have to dig through a bunch of configuration files to make their mouse work. Like I did with both Mandake 8 and 9, and Mandrake's supposed to be easy! He complains that he couldn't figure out how to make toolbars appear in the taskbar. All you have to do is right-click on it! If I made a stupid comment like that about some flavor of Linux, I'd get mauled! In fact, I'll probably get that kind of treatment for making this post. From at least some of you.

    I've tried Linux at least a dozen times, and every single time it was people like him that made me go back to Windows. Linux was built by a geek for geeks. I'm a geek and don't like it. Windows was built by an idiot for idiots and he's too much of an idiot to figure it out. He can feel sorry for my Windoze stupidity all he wants. I'll be laughing at his massive superiority complex. The Linux community needs a good psychiatrist."

    I can't believe this guy runs Slashdot. Sounds to me like he's the worst thing to ever happen to it.

  28. Parody of Most people know what Windows is by kupci · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The entire article is a joke, and a very poorly written one to. At least, I hope it's a joke because if it isn't then it has to be one of the worst articles I've ever read, and I've read some Jon Katz articles before.

    Gotta agree - and judging by the vehement defense of XP and IE by Slashdotters, it's was very successful, so it's actually pretty funny. I admit it took me a while to get it (little early for April Fools Day), but having read some of Roblimo's other articles, I'm guessing this is a tongue-in-cheek poke at the somewhat-techy PC magazine "when I grow up I wanna be a geek" author (Katz, Dvorak come to mind) writing about their inane, clumsy, clueless attempts at trying to figure out what all the fuss is about this "Linux thing".

    Few comments though - this does show how far Linux has come, as it's real strength is server side, not desktop pc. That he can switch to XP and not be too different is impressive. Also the fact that lots of familiar free software is still available. It illustrates that the Linux phenomenon has put the pressure on MSFT to improve Windows greatly (Win2k ain't bad, XP good too).

    This is a good thing. Look at IE, MSFT seems to be letting it languish, not even attempting to fix certain bugs, and the no tab pages is a legit gripe. Come on, how hard is it to add a tab page? It seems the only workaround, is to download a Windows only Google thingamajig -huh? - dunno, out of the box with Opera/Mozilla/etc.

    Or maybe they are finding the old codebase of IE too hard to make changes to, which was the reasoning behind the Mozilla rewrite, which set them back a little - perhaps that's now paying off with the ability to easily add new features.

  29. Quick Launch in 2000 by Elias+Serge · · Score: 2, Informative

    Another useful feature for QuickLaunch is that it doesn't *have* to be in the task bar. I dragged mine to the top of my screen and set it to autohide. So now I have immediate access to about 35 icons whenever I move my mouse to the top of the screen. This also frees up more space for the taskbar at the bottom. I also added an adress bar to it, so I can open a web page without having to open IE/Firebird first.

  30. Re:sarcasm? by jpu8086 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if some people don't see through the inherent sarcasm? You seem to be one of the few people to get it. On a related note, why did the parent.parent get modded +5; informative? Umm, the article's tone was definitely childish, sarcastic, and taunting. I think the authors intent was to act like veteran Windows users who try Linux for a couple of second and complain about it.

    For one, he did use Windows 5 five years ago. Many of the concepts are still the same.There hasn't been any dramatic paradigm shift. The article was definitely a sarcastic ploy.

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