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PHBs Getting "Secret" IT Training

An anonymous reader writes "As if all of us aren't already already aware of this, PHBs don't know jack squat about computer technology, and they won't seek any training from their own IT staff because that would be an admission of "weakness" so instead they are getting outsiders to train them in secret." Lucrative work for the secret tutors I s'pose. I guess getting tutored in secret is better than just floundering in ignorance.

21 of 516 comments (clear)

  1. Igorance is better. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I guess getting tutored in secret is better than just floundering in ignorance.

    No. Floundering in ignorance is much less destructive than "a little knowledge". A completely ignorant PHB says "make me a system that counts sheep". A PHB with a little knowledge says "make me a system that counts sheep, and it should use an ACID-compliant database and J2EE, and I think XP will be the way to go..."

  2. no suprise by Jonathunder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "YOU'D BE SURPRISED by what they don't know" says the trainer.

    No one who has ever worked help desk would be.

  3. Uh, are you sure that's the reason? by Tom7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Perhaps another reason "PHBs" might be heading to other sources than the IT staff is because the IT staff treats them with such contempt?

  4. ass backwards. by joe_bruin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    a good manager hires people that are knowledgeable in the field that they work. very likely, they will be more knowledgeable than the manager himself. the manager must then rely on input from these skilled people to make informed decisions. that is, if the boss doesn't know if A is better than B, he should ask the employees and find out.

    if the boss does not know anything, and is embarrassed to ask more knowledgeable employees, that boss should be fired. making decisions based on your secretly-aquired knowledge that may be incomplete, wrong, or totally inappropriate for the given situation, is probably the worst thing you can do.

    now, if the boss is an idiot, and the employees are idiots, well, you're probably going to be seeing some blood sucking consultants eating your company's money pretty soon.

  5. As an IT Director... by mrscott · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't want my boss to be totally uninformed. I don't like working in a vacuum and I don't ALWAYS have the best solution. At times, believe it or not, my boss has some good ideas even though he's not as technically astute as I am in a lot of areas. Sometimes, being a little further removed from the problem can present a great solution.

  6. MOD PARENT AS HIGH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE by mrscott · · Score: 4, Insightful

    God yes - you hit the nail on the head. When reading some of the posts on Slashdot, I wonder how some of these people can hold a job given their holier-than-thou genius-of-all-tech attitudes.

    Get over yourselves. An informed boss can make better decisions and work easier. And, if you can help them in a way that doesn't involve humiliating them, maybe it will come back and reward you.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT AS HIGH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE by metlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mark this as troll, if you will, but what you're saying is crap.

      Yeah, I have no social skills. I'm what you would call a dork or a nerd. But thats ok, because am not here to be please everybody.

      As far as the holier than thou attitude, yeah, so what? I'm choosy about the people I like and if I'm condescending its because a lot of people who're above me are there not because they're better than me but because they have the "Oh so called Social Skills."

      I don't see the point -- as long as I do my job and get my stuff done, whats the point and the problem?

      All that most "informed bosses" can do is kiss everyone's ass and pretend to know everything. And serve everything as sugar coated lies to the clients and investors.

      I would much rather not pretend to empathize with such people.

      And it is just this reason that I would prefer to be in an academic or research environment. Atleast its mostly free of this hypocritic attitude.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT AS HIGH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't see the point -- as long as I do my job and get my stuff done, whats the point and the problem?

      You'll be at the same job doing the same stuff your entire "career", be the first to be outsourced or replaced with an automated tool, etc..

      Lets say tomorrow your job is eliminated, and the boss can keep one person on in another position. His choice boils down to you, or someone he likes and works well with.

      Don't kid yourself, your magical tech skills are nothing. Anyone can do what you do, it's how you do it that matters.

      I work in a small company, and we've been through at least a half dozen guys in the last year, all perfectly capable of doing the work, but couldnt fit in with the group we have. The smaller the team, the more important the work dynamic.

      Any dope can work on an assembly line. But, the guy whos amiable and responsible ends up being foreman or shop manager.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:MOD PARENT AS HIGH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE by jhylkema · · Score: 2, Insightful

      His point, while put in a rather sneering, ranting tone, is well-taken. It is a fact that most PHBs don't get there because of merit. They get there because they went to the right prep school, Daddy knew the right people, their frat brothers (whom they used to drink a fifth a weekend with) helped them, etc. Also, there is some credence to the notion that B-schoolers don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. As a former one myself (before I saw the light,) I can tell you that they have as many classes on etiquette and protocol as they do academics. Look where business administration majors score - fifth from the bottom! Where's my major? Second from the top, even beating out comp. sci. and engineering. WOOHOO!!

      I agree that social skills are necessary. I agree that one has to be able to get along to a certain extent. But social skills are one thing, getting by because you're a bullshit artist in an expensive suit is quite another. Most corporate higher-ups fit into the latter category, and we saw it in excelsis during the dot.bomb era.

      Now it's my turn to rant. This proves what a lot of people suspect about CEOs and other higher-ups in companies. Namely, that they are spoiled, pampered, self-important, pompous assholes who have never worked a hard day in their lives and wouldn't know an honest day's work if it bit them in the face. They don't need the training because, hey, we're bigshots. We've people for those menial tasks. "We're too good for the mere IT mortals, we deserve private training." Yeah, along with your private dining room, private bathroom, private jet, etc., etc., etc . . .

    4. Re:MOD PARENT AS HIGH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE by fizbin · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If they're above you, try finding out why, and get the skills you need to get to that level.
      This assumes that one is inside a rationally run organization, in which people obtain their position for some reason that makes some vague kind of sense, or at the very least is not massively unfair. I would conclude from the level of rage in the grandparent post that the poster is not in such an organization. I would go further and state that the rationally run organization is an exceedingly rare beast.

      True, I won't deny that there are some people who make bad managers and that it is, ceteris paribus, more useful to get along with your coworkers than not. However, in my experience the idea that someone's "people skills"(*) are the prime determiner in who advances to upper management is not supported by the evidence. Also, although I am in an organization where lower- and middle-management promotions seem to make sense, I have been in ones where they don't make any sense either. And, frankly, it's hell to work for one of those people.

      On that note - why is management a promotion? That is, why is the reward for doing a good job a different job at which one may not do as well? Why do managers need to be paid more than the people they manage - we've already suggested in several places that managerial skill and technical skill are two different things; why then must the pay between managers and the techies they manage be linked in this fashion? If managerial skill were sufficiently rarer than technical skill, of course I grant that the market would presumably ensure this result. However, consider the case where an underling is more valuable to the company than some middle manager above him in the org. chart. I think it can be assumed that this case, while perhaps not overly common, is not vanishingly rare. What happens in this case? Is the manager ever paid less than his subordinates, or is the manager's pay bumped up enough to cover the horrible embarrassment that would result if it were discovered that someone he directs makes more money than he does? How does one reward valuable programmers without making them not programmers?

      (*) I'd like to see a definition of this - does it mean the ability to manipulate people into doing what you want? Does it mean an ability to get people to like you personally? I ask because supposedly these "people skills" are related to the "social skills" that one picks up by being herded together at a young age with all the other local children who happen to share a similar birthyear: that is, how to bully, redirect the bullies onto others, or take the abuse.
  7. Secret is stupid by Technically+Inept · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Shame at your own ignorance is the very thing that keeps illiterate people from getting help reading and guys from asking for directions. A smart company makes the education process completely transparent, which results in a greater willingness to attempt self-improvement.

    Consider GE, which instituted an internet mentoring program (Word doc) for its top executives, including former CEO Jack Welch.

    What GE did need, however, was a system to train its top management in the wonders of the Internet. It didn't do much good to preach the values of e-business if the people making the big decisions in the corporation didn't know how to use the tool.

    To alter the situation, GE started a mentoring program for nearly 1,000 senior executives. Younger members of the GE staff, proficient in the ways of the new electronic world, were assigned to teach a senior executive how to use the Internet.

    You don't need a computer expert to teach computer basics, and the upside is that the lower level employees get executive mentorship, and the executive employees learn these tools while keeping connected to employees down the ladder. This, to me, is a much more sensible approach than seclusion, shame, and secrecy.
    --
    Now watch me hit this drive.
  8. Absolutely by mrscott · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I completely agree that people skills can set people apart. I just find a lot of techs pretty arrogant and condescending and it doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence in the people in the field. I don't mind that they don't have people skills -- everyone has limitations -- but the arrogance can be controlled.

  9. need to inject this somewhere. . . by hellraizr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ok, now I *understand* some people might still live in a cave and think programming the VCR is black magick, but here's my thoughts on this.

    having worked under DIRECTORS OF IT that fit this profile, it leads me to ask the question. . . In a typical business model, shouldn't the boss not only know his employee's jobs, but be able to do them in most cases!? or atleast be savvy enough (i.e., we run Netware, yeah Netware XP) to hire a contractor. I'm not even going into the mcse stuff either (1 pci NIC + 1 driver disk + 1 NT box == particle engineering).

    I personally take the stance that your superiors should alteast know how to operate they're own system and be computer literate enough to atleast receive a company-wide memo. we can't keep sheltering people like this. in the end it will end up, those of us who can. and the others that can't that will serve us. oh and those who can purchase those who can so they can too. IMHO.

  10. Re:This is prime PHB material, but... by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, maybe if the tutorials out there spent less time being condescending and more time actively presenting the real paradigms instead of flimsy confusing stuff, it wouldn't be a problem.

    "What's the right mouse button for?"

    wrong: "it's a context-sensitive menu enabling access to control commands"

    wrong: "it's like a scrapbook in which your least used situational commands are gathered and presented for your use"

    right: "it's where your less common controls go. there're even rarer ones in the big menus. it works on pretty much everything. just try it out a lot; as long as you don't pick any menu items, nothing's gonna change, and you won't hurt anything."

    1) Give them a simple straightforward explanation of what it does without jargon or metaphor

    2) Encourage them to familiarize themselves with the control, being careful to note when such experimentation is inappropriate, even when it's never inappropriate

    Not so hard. Out of curiosity, I sat through a biug chunk of the tutorial shipped with my new commodity PC; there were some things I didn't understand, and I wrote software for a living.

    Perhaps hire fewer multimedia visionaries and more teachers next time you guys write intros. :D

    --
    StoneCypher is Full of BS
  11. Ignorance is bliss... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Hello:

    It looks like this is a good time to look at the difference between "ignorance" and "stupidity".

    Your CPA is ignorant if they don't know how to attach to a network drive. They are stupid if they use the CD-Tray for a cup holder.

    On the other hand, do you know the formula for "total factor productivity?" If not, then your CPA will think of you as ignorant.

    If you think direct deposit is slang for having sex then you are also stupid.

    Most professionals are competent, intelligent people who may or may not have good computer skills. Don't forget that from their point of view you too might look ignorant.

    Did that come off preachy??? I didn't really mean for it to come of preachy. Damm that was preachy... Ahh well..

  12. Re:More people! by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look, I worked IT for a hundred doctors' offices in a major metropolitan area. Doctors are no more, and no less, computer literate than the general populace. Most of the docs I spoke with were highly intelligent, easy to teach, and interested in learning how to do new stuff.

    So I really don't know what you're after, here. Smart people know how to learn stuff. Lots of docs are smart people.

    Incidentally, most of those doctors' staff people were similarly teach-able. I think that the assumption that people are unable to learn how to drive a computer is due to the fact that lots of people are bad at teaching people how to use computers.

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  13. Re:More people! by ceejayoz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having seen it from both sides (Dad's a doc who dabbled in programming in college, I do web apps for docs), I'd say a lot of the blame rests squarely on IT's shoulders.

    You can tell when the UI was done by a programmer with no usability training... things are just counterintuitive, non-obvious, etc.

    Yes, some docs are computer imbeciles... but their job is to fix people, not to sit taking computer training. Make it Incredibly Freaking Obvious (TM) and it's easier for everyone. :-p

  14. Re:This is prime PHB material, but... by stefanb · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Ugh, seems I've hit a button here :-)

    Don't get me wrong, the first thing I do when getting a new Mac is to get a mouse with a scroll wheel for it, and that usually involves a right-hand button as well.

    The important bit for be is that I can see the difference in almost all Mac apps, I get the most "useful" commands, as opposed to Windows apps where more often than not I get commands on the context menu that are not available anywhere else.

    For a long time, on Macs, you had all kinds of "accelerators", but they were only that: you did not need to memorize obtuse key combinations (different for each app, of course), but you could run most of them with just the mouse (except for text entry). This is completely opposite to my experience with Windows software, where many times, you can activate a function or feature only through a context menu or some key stroke combination.

    Otherwise, I completly agree: making often used functions more readily accessible for the power user is a good thing, and you can use the right.hand-button on your mouse just like that in Mac OS X.

    Oh, and one last thing: "experimentation unless it's 'inappropriate'." Although there's quite a few occasions where there's no undo, Apple's Human Interface Guidelines require (or at least strongly suggest) undo features at all possible levels, so as long it's undoable, it should be OK.

  15. Yet another software cowboy by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Yeah, I have no social skills. I'm what you would call a dork or a nerd. But thats ok, because am not here to be please everybody.

    That would have worked a few years ago, when computers were still a bold new frontier. Think about the Old West--at first rugged individualist cowboys and adventurers are rewarded, because the place was so empty that ability to deal with nature was more important than ability to deal with your neighbor. In fact, people probably went out west because they couldn't stand their neighbors back east.

    Think about how much of America was built by people who couldn't stand their old neighbors. Even the native americans must have really hated China at some point.

    Then, as things began to get crowded, the same sort of business men and politicians from back east began to rise above everyone else, and the cowboy lifestyle began to decline.

    It's the same with computers--first it was dominated by nerds like you (and possibly me...) who were really good with machines. But as there got to be more and more of us, and as the machines got more and more reliable, then yet another frontier starts to close, and making people happy once again becomes more important than making machines go.

    Now, the mature thing for folk like us to do is to either find a new frontier, or accept the world as it is, and try to improve our social skills as best we can.

    Yet before I do that, I'd like to take a moment to shed a tear for the death of yet another frontier, yet another chance to make the American dream a reality. The American Dream, by the way, is that one can improve one's own lot in life simply by doing a better job, through physical or intellectual effort, rather than by kissing the asses of whatever feudal lord happens to be dominating our lives at the moment. That individual worth could somehow beat out nepotism and favortism. A sweet, yet elusive dream

    And before I allow Stockholm syndrome to completely overwhelm me, I lament how much of humanities effort is wasted in the collective solipsism advocated by so many people who reply to you--the opinion that physical reality outside humanity is of less importance than social reality within humanity. A society which believes that itself is the most important thing in the universe will experieince very limited growth.

    1. Re:Yet another software cowboy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Certainly at some point 'ass-kissing' and political posturing are detrimental.

      But on the other hand sociopathic anarchy can eventually get out of hand as well.

      The "yet another cowboy" post is eloquent, but having some people skills is not the same as the failure of the American Dream.

      Our social networks are what lifted us out of the mud and gave us such bonuses as group hunting, speech, civilization, even the ability to conceptualize that it should be what you know and not who. The ability of humans to organize and meet out work is admirable rather than contemptable.

      Obviously the PHB is an onerous cross to bear for the slashdot crowd - check which posts are highly moderated - and the idea that your skills are the only thing that matter is appealing in it's straightforward simplicity. But if databases or WANs or code are not simple, why should social life be? Indeed, the /. crowd obviously relishes the challenge that technology presents, but there are those who cannot stomach the challenge that being around other humans likewise puts forth.

      And that's ok! Not everyone has to be good at everything - or even anything. But the idea that controlling an organization of people is less respectable than controlling an organization of logic gates is one that I can't quite come to believe.

      Really, I don't believe that even the posters here actually desire to go around being skilled assholes to everyone they meet. I suspect that most of this reaction comes from not getting enough respect from the PHB and is sour grapes in return.

      Either way, the hardcore position put forth in some posts advocating that we should be 100% skillful and 100% asshole is not the way to go. Just try not to be an asshole. Society will fall apart if everyone thinks they can go around telling off everyone they meet. Everyone has to function together if we're ever going to build utopia, colonize the stars, have a good game of AD&D or whatever.

      Adam

  16. Re:That's nothing by cluckshot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe we need to advise President Bush of this service. He clearly thinks that the reason US Computer Programmers suffer unemployment is that they have not keep their skills up to date. That is why he supports H-1B and L-1 Visa programs to import "Qualified Workers." (Speech about 45 days ago) Maybe he will open up H-1B and L-1 Visa programs to replace these clearly obsolete and moronic obviously unqualified CEO's etc. But if he does, he may have to realize that their claims of "No Qualified Americans," only apply to Management and definitely not the the Software Engineers they lay off to raise their wages.

    For the Ignorant H-1B and L-1 are US BICS(US Bureau of Immigration and Citizenship Services part of the Department of Homeland Security) [An onxymoron] Visa programs designed to allow companies to bring in massive quantities of Aliens and pay them substandard wages while avoiding US Payroll Taxes either all or part such that they can complain bitterly that there are no "Qualified Americans" while they bask in the wads of cash they save on taxes. It is as simple as understanding that Americans must markup their wages 150% or more to pay the taxes and the companies and their employees (Aliens) don't have to pay these taxes or the markup via these programs. Read Corporate Welfare!

    Bush thinks that Americans should have to compete against Tax Exempt foreign Labor and that it is only their lack of "Qualifications" that makes them unemployed. Bluntly ask yourself, if you have the choice to buy a product from one person who charges $1000 and another who charges $2500 for the same product which would you buy? The answer is obvious. American Labor is not more expensive, it is our Government that is more expensive.

    To illustrate: If GE which is Outsourcing to China $5 Billion this year and saving $1 Billion buys in the USA it cost $6 Billion. The States and the USA take $3 or more Billion of that money. The Labor only got $3 Billion. In China the Untaxed Labor cost $5 Billion. Thus the US Labor was $2 Billion Cheaper than in China. It is not US Labor that is the problem. It is the IGNORANT MANAGEMENT who is like these guys getting private tutors to even know how to use the machines of modern work while laying off Americans who are well qualified that is the problem. These are the same men who are killing Education Benefits for working people. They are the same ones who testify in front of Congress that there are "No Qualified Americans" to fill their jobs.

    --
    Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.