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True Crime - Good Cop, GTA - Bad Cop?

Thanks to GameDevLeague for their article discussing discussing the Grand Theft Auto-like Activision game True Crime, and its good cop/bad cop dilemma. The author argues: "In Differentiate or Die, Jack Trout says if you're not the leading brand with the killer attribute - then you should go 'opposite' the leading brand's killer attribute." He continues: "What attribute does GTA own? Crime. How do you go opposite of crime? Law enforcement." But he laments that, while you play a cop in the game, "...Activision went and called it True Crime! And buried the law enforcement angle so deep I can barely even tell from the ad copy that's what it's about." So does everyone "want to be bad" nowadays, thus Activision's clone-like marketing ploy, or do users genuinely not care as long as the game is fun?

33 comments

  1. Franchise begging to be taken care of... by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 1

    COPS

    You ride along on patrol looking for bad guys in Lakeview, WA.

    It'll sell better than Deer Hunter.

    1. Re:Franchise begging to be taken care of... by Win98crash · · Score: 2, Funny
      You ride along on patrol looking for bad guys in Lakeview, WA
      I know you meant *Redmond, WA*
    2. Re:Franchise begging to be taken care of... by darken9999 · · Score: 1

      Naw. Lakewood, WA. Cops was filmed there a number of times when I lived there.

    3. Re:Franchise begging to be taken care of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No doubt that's what I meant...

      Tacoma is so close to Seattle, how can it be such a shithole?

  2. It's about choice by revmoo · · Score: 1

    do users genuinely not care as long as the game is fun?

    Exactly.

    I could care less whether I'm playing as the good guy or the bad guy in a game, so long as it is a fun game. After all, that is the point of a game, to be fun.

    But even more important than the good/bad side of a game is CHOICE. Give the player the option to be a good guy, or to be a bad guy. Let them decide how they want to play the game.

    Grand Theft Auto is a great example of the power that choice gives players. I play vice city a lot, but I don't play the missions, and I don't run around killing people. I install custom cars and race them around the city, doing jumps, tricks, et al. Why? Because Rockstar designed such a great engine such that it is flexible enough to allow the end user to do almost anything. I only wish more game developers would follow suit.

    --
    I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
    1. Re:It's about choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So uhhhh... any chance you package your modifications for others to fool around with?

      Sounds kinda like a freeform "Driver" mod but without the cameras and rules and well... OK the only thing in common is cars and stunts.

      Sounds fun though, especially if you could select checkpoints which would automatically turn that selected path into a racetrack.

    2. Re:It's about choice by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 1

      "I only wish more game developers would follow suit."
      They would be following IDSofts suit. If it wernt for ID, we'd be getting sued under the DMCA for modding our games. ID revolutionized the modding industry by using the easy to figure out format(cant think of the name offhand) for doom after seeing how many people tried to hack mods into wolf3d. Because of that we could turn a fps monster game into an airplane simulator (AirQuake), RTS (DiD), Or just totaly innovate new gameplay (3wave, fortress, etc).

      It's scary to think where the industry would be today without IDSoft's generousity.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    3. Re:It's about choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he didn't say he used a mod. Must be one-man races.

  3. Dress Ups by Yakman · · Score: 1, Funny

    In GTA3: Vice City I like to put on the police uniform and calmly drive around the streets in a Police Cruiser. When I see a gang of Haitians or Cubans I will proceed to exit my vehicle, AND BEAT THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF THEM WITH MY TRUNCHEON. Then I get back in my car and keep driving.

    Sometimes I use the minigun.

    I like stories.

    1. Re:Dress Ups by Violet+Null · · Score: 1

      Non-amusing to anyone but me anecdote: When playing Vice City, I took on the persona of the dirty cop -- Tommy was always wearing the cop uniform, and driving around in some sort of law enforcement vehicle.

      Anyways, I go on to do the biker missions (for Mitch whats-his-name). In the beginning of the cut scene when you first meet Mitch, he looks you over and says, "You don't look like the law to me." Despite the fact that I'm wearing a cop uniform and have a cruiser parked outside.

      (Got a similar reaction from the Cuban gang leader; walked in wearing the Cuban gang outfit, and one of his lines in the cutscene is, "You're wearing woman's clothes!")

    2. Re:Dress Ups by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · · Score: 1

      In VIce City, you can get points for helping a cop stop another criminal - and of course, there's the vigilante missions :)

      --
      Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
  4. Um...both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The main character in True Crime IS a cop, but like many we have seen before in movies (think of everything from Dirty Harry to Elliot Ness to Tequila), he's willing to break the law for "the greater good." So killing a few baddies and taking the law into their own hands is worth it simply because that's the only way they'll ever be able to get to the bigger fish.

    I really don't see how this is anything new. I haven't really seen any by-the-book cops in movies or games that have had a general appeal.

    1. Re:Um...both? by BizidyDizidy · · Score: 0

      Police Quest series was very fun, especially at first. I guess console kiddies might not know that. Check them out.

      --
      The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
    2. Re:Um...both? by LaundroMat · · Score: 1

      Actually I don't care, but I can see that playing the good guy and being able to take the law into your own hands is worse than just being the bad guy and doing bad things. In a videogame.

      I mean, if the character's labelled as a bad guy, whatever he does is "bad". If he's a good guy, everything he does is "good", even if it means shooting innocent people, shoving police batons up people's arses and what not.

      --
      "Those innocent fun games of the hallucination generation"
  5. How about Max Payne by Yarn · · Score: 1

    Shows you can be a "good guy" but also have the kind of all-out war that the real police can't get away with. (Often.)

    --
    -Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
  6. All the Kids Want to be Nazis by fuzzybunny · · Score: 1


    Playing Battlefield 1942 online, I've noticed an unusually high proportion of juvenile fuckwits wanting to be badass nazi stormtroopers. They play as "Adolf Hitler", "22SSPzrDiv", "SS PnzrGrndr", and other trite combinations they pick up off some WWII history site.

    Going online and playing as one of Uncle Joe Stalin's guardians of freedom and democracy and demolishing the pseudo-nazi little shits is always amusing.

    Essentially I think two kinds of people who like to play bad as bad guys in games--the ones who enjoy watching Bond movies and say "damn" when the hero gets off Goldfinger's laser table in the nick of time, and the morons with inferiority complexes who give nazi salutes just to irritate people. Draw your own confusions.

    --
    Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    1. Re:All the Kids Want to be Nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Playing Battlefield 1942 online, I've noticed an unusually high proportion of juvenile fuckwits wanting to be badass nazi stormtroopers. They play as "Adolf Hitler", "22SSPzrDiv", "SS PnzrGrndr", and other trite combinations they pick up off some WWII history site.

      Actually its probably a decent amount of 20-30 something neo nazi wannabes too. A lot of the nazi "skinheads" that can't show their faces around town for fear of getting beat down by the punks and non/anti-racist (SHARP, HARSH, ARA, etc.).

      I used to get into online hacking wars with a lot of them (you can find them via IRC) years ago till I got tired of messing up their poorly configured windows boxes.

    2. Re:All the Kids Want to be Nazis by kabocox · · Score: 1

      Essentially I think two kinds of people who like to play bad as bad guys in games--the ones who enjoy watching Bond movies and say "damn" when the hero gets off Goldfinger's laser table in the nick of time, and the morons with inferiority complexes who give nazi salutes just to irritate people. Draw your own confusions.

      Oh about those of us that think that we could build a better spy trap? Other than it is "unAmerican" to want to play the "enemny" nation and what them to win, what is wrong with playing a game where you in charge of a radically different social structure? Isn't that the whole point of Civilization type games? Hey it's a game if I want to rule a country with a iron fist, using propaganda or other forms of mind control such as religion, why not? There is absolutely no chance of me be a chrasmtic leader, taking over the US and implementing a regim such similiar to Nazis. Why not let people play out their fantasies in games? I don't think it is "morally offensive."

    3. Re:All the Kids Want to be Nazis by fuzzybunny · · Score: 1


      Nothing un-American about it. Frankly, I don't care what anyone considers "American" and what "not". I see where you're coming from, but I think there's a bit of a difference between building an evil totalitarian nation in a game like Civilization, to see where it goes, and getting into an FPS with a "d00d! Hitler! Nazi! K00l!" attitude.

      I am not making moral judgments about it (I play Axis or Soviet or whatever bad guys happen to be around quite a bit, if for example it's the team with free slots--no problem there. I just dislike it when people trivialize certain things like Nazi symbology and terminology in order to feel cool. That is, however, a purely personal preference.

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    4. Re:All the Kids Want to be Nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all the people who think "Hitler killd lots of ppl. omg nazi r teh roxoR!! HEIL!!!" who are morally offensive.

    5. Re:All the Kids Want to be Nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  7. When will someone make a realistic crime game? by Sodade · · Score: 1

    I wanna play a criminal. I don't want to play an all out postal psychopath (unless I get frustrated and feel like going down in flames) - if a few guys need to get whacked as part of my schemes, no biggie. I want to plan my own "scores" - not "Italian Job" scores (though that would be fun too) - more like "Heat," "Resivoir Dogs," or "The Usual Suspects." I want to start out small - maybe rob a gas station or two, be a small time dealer, etc.. - then move up into the big leagues as I gain a rep. I wanna get mixed up with "made men" who might hook me up, or might mark me. I want to be hunted down by cops played by real people. I want to get rich and buy cool stuff and flaunt my cash, drugs and guns to my buds. Vice City came close, but it was way too unrealistic and cartoony. The AI made it boring and the city was crammed full of cops and gang members and buildings that served no purpose. I don't want there to be random "scooby snacks" hidden away to heal me or hide me from the cops. When I get hit by a bullet - I want it to suck - bad. It needs to be multiplayer and online - but not massively - the world can't be teeming with pure thugs and cops. People need to suffer hard if they get wacked or if they indescriminately whack others - like real life. It would be fun to play a cop too - trying to bust punk kids and having all of those resources behind me - "can't outrun a radio."

    1. Re:When will someone make a realistic crime game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like your forward thinking.

      How about being able to become a wicked hit man like the professional?

    2. Re:When will someone make a realistic crime game? by cgenman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When will someone make a realistic crime game?
      I want to get rich and buy cool stuff and flaunt my cash, drugs and guns to my buds.
      I wanna get mixed up with "made men" who might hook me up, or might mark me.
      I don't want there to be random "scooby snacks" hidden away to heal me or hide me from the cops. When I get hit by a bullet - I want it to suck - bad.


      So... You want a game where you camp out watching a target for 3 days, you want to hire a group of thugs to help you, and you want to be chased by real people playing cops who have no reprocussions for shooting criminals.

      I assume you then want to run to mexico and spend the rest of your $10 a month subscription getting drunk in a language you don't understand and crying about not being able to go home?

      Do you have any conceptualization about crime beyond what you are shown in movies? I'll give you a hint... It's really boring. A realistic crime game would consist of buying stolen goods from character X and selling them to character Y, trying to hide the fact that you are making money by not buying anything fancy, until suddenly an overwhelming force of police officers busts down your door that you put your hands up and lie down. Even if it was a heist game, very few criminals are ever "caught in the act." The game would be several days of scoping out a location and doing research, 60 seconds of busting in and taking things, and 4 weeks of laying low trying not to get fingered. And the cops get to have the joy of interviewing NPC's for information, picking up clues from things lying around the scene, and having crimes go unsolved for upwards of 10 years.

      You want all buildings to have a purpose, yet you want no "scooby snacks?" You want a realistic crime game where you can flaunt your cash?

      It sounds like what you really want is Scarface Online.

    3. Re:When will someone make a realistic crime game? by Sodade · · Score: 1

      I realize that "real crime" is not the idealized movie version and I am not suggesting that the game be 100% realistic, but what could be more boring than makingtrade goods in EQ? Having to bail to Mexico because the heat is on would be a good deterrent to making mistakes or blasting your way through bad situations.

      Obviously, the cops would have to have a negative consequence for indesciminately blasting mobsters - demoting them to a beat cop or a desk-jockey would be a good first time offenders punishment. Death and jail are real and they would have to have a stong impact on the player.

      Scarface Online doesn't sound so bad. Better than bazooka rampages through a mall filled with "gang members"

    4. Re:When will someone make a realistic crime game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with the concept of "When I get hit by a bullet - I want it to suck - bad.". The Airbase mission in "SP Wolfenstein revisited" is a decent example: Full armor and health against one sniper, while in open view. Two shots and your dead. (Unfortunately, the sniper kills himself way too easily - normally falling off the building).

      The problem with this idea is that a game has to be progressively harder in order to be effective. Typically, it's done with larger quantities of enemies weilding more painful equipment. If the least painful weapon can hurt you bad, then how do you make the game difficulty increase rationally? The first henchman is automatically at the level of a typical boss!

      IMO, games have no realism when you can have 1% health and still walk/run/jump. That's something I'd like to see corrected in games. Basically, the more you're hurt, the slower you move - making you an easier target (and unless you're really lucky, spiraling to gameover). This would actually encourage risk-averse behaviour.

    5. Re:When will someone make a realistic crime game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should play Red Storm games. I think you would like them. They try to be as realistic as possible.

      (Unfortunately, the Rainbow Six series of games apparently also tries to be as buggy as possible... Ghost Recon and Raven Shield are better.)

    6. Re:When will someone make a realistic crime game? by jobbleberry · · Score: 0

      What about the Getaway on PS2. It kinda works like that. The more your shot up the worse you perform. You start to limp and stuff, you heal yourself by leaning on a wall for a certain amount of time. Also in this game you play as both the criminal and the cop. This gives you perspective of both sides of the story.

  8. heh by JavaLord · · Score: 1

    I didn't even notice that you are a cop in true crime. I thought it was a GTA clone from what marketing I have come across. I enjoyed playing GTA and just exploring the world and going on crime sprees. (I never do the missions). True crime sounds like fun if you can be a renagade cop and go kill the bad guys. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would like to really give the criminals what they deserve, in a role playing, fake environment of course :)

  9. Cops not as much fun by Prien715 · · Score: 1

    If there were a cop simulation, it might be about as much fun as running through the code of a C program.

    Why?

    One of the great things about GTA series is the planning you did in the missions. What car to use, how exactly to do it, etc. The vast majority of cops have something called procedure. Rather than creatively solving your problems, you "do it by the book". If you wish to deviate, you need to call headquarters and are more often given orders than a blank check to decide what to do. Who wants to make a game about following procedure?

    But, if the game is as realistic as GTA, maybe they won't include that "feautre" and it'll be fun.

    Seriously, breaking the law gives the player much more freedom than enforcing it.

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:Cops not as much fun by JavaLord · · Score: 1

      If there were a cop simulation, it might be about as much fun as running through the code of a C program. Why? One of the great things about GTA series is the planning you did in the missions. What car to use, how exactly to do it, etc. The vast majority of cops have something called procedure. Rather than creatively solving your problems, you "do it by the book". If you wish to deviate, you need to call headquarters and are more often given orders than a blank check to decide what to do. Who wants to make a game about following procedure?

      Yeah those police quest games back in the day didn't sell at all. I wonder why they made like 6-7 sequals if they were so boring an nobody liked them?

  10. No - we don't wanna be bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But beeing the children of the (all) revolution(s) we've learned the lesson - cops are bad, outlaws are good!

  11. combine them by Parsec · · Score: 1

    You could make it a competition thing. Tie the two games together so that True Crime cops try to catch GTA players. Then you could have gangs of GTA players vs. precincts of True Crime players.