Slashdot Mirror


Europeans Still Battling Software Patents

rimberg writes "The FFII in the UK is issuing an alert for all supporters to write to their MPs -- this weekend . In September the European Parliament voted for strong restrictions on software patents. But these could be set aside at a meeting of the EU's Competitiveness Council of Ministers on 10 November. The ministers' meeting is to be "prepared" at a meeting of senior patent officials from across Europe even sooner: this Thursday 23 October. Unless they can be convinced otherwise before 10 November, it is believed that UK ministers will push for the Council to adopt a November 2002 draft text, which is even worse than the infamous McCarthy report. The European Parliament's rules for second reading make it very difficult for MEPs to fix a bad text from the Council. The FFII says it desperately need a lot of letters to go out to MPs this weekend to tell the Government how bad the November 2002 draft is. More information at FFII-UK."

16 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. IR35 and now patents by gilesjuk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are they trying to kill IT in the UK or what?

    The smaller companies will suffer when patents are phased in and it is these smaller companies that employ workers in the UK. The larger organisations are on the whole moving many jobs to countries such as India.

  2. Example by Ed+Avis · · Score: 3, Informative

    Copying form letters is very bad - they don't get read. But if you're wondering about how to use LaTeX you might want to look at some stuff wot I wrote earlier today. (mp_letter.tex in that directory; the other .tex files are earlier stuff.) I don't want to hold it up as a great exemplar though... write your own words and opinions. (But follow the FFII guidelines!)

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  3. Patents and Linux by DarkHazard · · Score: 2

    If software patents were kept in place Linux developement taking place in Europe would basically stop. Are they trying to kill open source or something? I thought some countires in the EU were trying to adopt Linux and open source software not kill it.

    1. Re:Patents and Linux by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft, Sun, etc. have a lot of money to spend on lobbyists.

      We basically have Alan Cox..

      Not surprising the laws are a bit biased :)

  4. Ok, I give up... by 3seas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why does it never seem to stop, this desire to place constraints on consumer choice?

    People get tired of the constraints being placed on them so they create their own, only to then have a persistant effort to take their choice away from them.

    With technology making it easier and easier to create, you'd think the exclusive rights would get shorter and shorter, so as to re-emburse for R&D.

  5. A nice change of pace... by Gandhian_Rage · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm sure we have all grown tired of hearing snobby UKians touting their political stablitiy with phrases like, "Geez, I'm glad I don't live in the US." Well, I'm glad I can finally say that I'm glad I don't live in the UK.

  6. Re:How are other European ministers expected to vo by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 2, Insightful
    In an anglo-centric site like slashdot, special relevance is given to the UK's power in the EU. However, the truth is that the UK has casted itself aside from relevancy in the EU policy-making process in most subjects. The UK actually seems to be following US policy indicators rather than EU ones.

    To answer your question, Germany and France are not likely to agree with the UK position as it is laid out in the article. The EU institutions are notoriously slow-moving and since they showed what they feel on the subject not long ago, they are unlikely to fall prey to lobbying so soon after. Also, lobbying in the EU is not as organised as in the US - most European citizens regard the semi-formal lobbying process in the US as absolute proof of corruption of their political system.

    --
    Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
  7. We know they are corrupt by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In this day and age, writing to your MP or Senator just has no effect. Instead you should send cash or blackmail threats. However, many people simply dont have enough money to initiate a bribe, but dont worry! thanks to capitalism, you'll soon be able to bribe someone even on a low budget! Bribe Agencies will allow many people to concentrate their money into one bribe which can be sent to any participating politician (i.e all of them). I for one cannot wait for this, it will open up bribery to even the poor!

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:We know they are corrupt by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well firstly the freedom of speech/human rights crap was a switch and bait - you simply cant get the publics attention these days without something jucy. The rest is directly proportional to their progress in the Orwellian model (See "Animal Farm") Theres a gap between a political system becoming fully corrupt, and we call this the "buffer zone". To maintain a healthy government its important to stop them before they pass a given threshold of corruption. Let me give you an example:

      You buy some milk and you think "ok i got milk, thats that out of the way." But obviously the milk starts to go bad (like my spelling), at first its minimal and then it gets noticable, at that point you simply have to chuck it out and buy some more. The same happens with the Orwellian model.

      At the bad point you have to chuck the government out and start fresh with some un-corrupted politicians. "Chucking out" can mean any number of things - revolution, coup, assasination, or just built in expiry (the 2 term rule). Power corrupts everyone and the only way is to regularly replace them.

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  8. Europe will be crushed. by zulux · · Score: 3, Insightful


    The poor europeans will be crushed by the suddenly vaild American software-patentes we have been creating over the last 10 years. EU firms have had no need to create patent portfolios - and will be defenselss to American lawsuits when the EU allows software patents. There will be no 'cross licensing' because EU companyines have no patents to cross license with.

    Software patents are horribly evil, and if the EU is stupid enough to follow the us Americans, they will be *very* *very* sorry.

    All your EU companies are now belong to IBM, MOT, and MSFT.

    --

    Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.

  9. Re:How are other European ministers expected to vo by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are deluding yourself if you think that the European Parliament gets to make any serious decision. That's the job of the Council of Ministers and the Commission. By opting out of many EU initiatives over the years (social charter, Euro) and blocking others (common foreign policy, common defense), the UK is going AGAINST most European nations. Also, 86 (not 87) seats out of 623 is insignificant. France and Germany (whom you outright discount) together have 186 seats. Not enough to make policy, anyway, so I wonder what your point was.

    --
    Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
  10. To all non-Europeans by 4D.uk · · Score: 5, Insightful
    To all non-Europeans

    This may be the best opportunity left for you to prevent software patents in your own country

    The United States Patent Office and the Japanese Patent Office have already achieved their goal of software patents in their own countries. The European Patent Office (supported by all the European national patent offices) is the third partner in the Trilateral Commission, and if it is able to legalize software patents in Europe, each partner will have a very strong position of apparent international legitimacy from which to fight any backlash in their own regions.

    And then, rest of the World, watch out.

    Between them, these 3 regions have a massive amount of economic power, and they will push the rest of the World to follow their lead on the software patent issue. This will be done through the world trade and intellectual property organizations (WTO and WIPO), where the countries on the receiving end of this pressure will probably concede the issue, given that they have more important issues to fight about (such as farming subsidies). Not that they'd necessarily want to fight it, since most governments' advisers on the subject (patent lawyers) are generally strongly in favour of extensions to patentability anyway.

    So, the best remaining opportunity for you to remove or prevent software patenting in your own country may be to help fight it in Europe. If you are not European, you obviously don't have any direct say in our democratic processes, but you could still give secondary support. I guess the best way would be donating your time and money to the Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure. Here are the links:

    But if you don't think it's right for outsiders to interfere in other countries' political processes, tell that to the BSA (which drafted the original directive proposal), and the US Government (which didn't like the proposed amendments). And when they ignore you, come on and help the good guys.

    P.S. I don't speak for the FFII, I just don't want to see software patents (generally unfair restrictions on people's right to write and distribute their own software) seriously harm computing all around the World.

    P.P.S If you are an EU citizen, make sure your government knows what you want it to do at that November 10th meeting.

  11. The email/fax that I sent by Morosoph · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please no-one use this "as is", especially if they live in Cambridge; I only want to encourage others to craft a decent letter.

    Dear Anne Campbell,

    A few weeks ago, I emailed you concerning software patents, with patent laws being passed in the European Parliament, and soon to be put through to UK law.

    Last month, the European Parliament voted for strong restrictions upon software patents, but it is my understanding that UK ministers at the Competitiveness Council of Ministers are likely to push for the Parliament amendments to be overturned. This would be a disaster for software development within Britain.

    The UK Patent Office have been lobbying for unlimited patentability, and whilst their consultation found a lot of support from patent professionals were in favour, the views of programmers were extremely hostile. Strong patent laws are not good for the industry, although they might be good for big companies: in the USA, large companies build portfolios of software patents, which creates a minefield for programmers, as every program contains steps which could be considered innovative, meaning that before long, it becomes impossible to write programs of any complexity without stepping upon some of these patents. Although these patents ultimately might not stand up in court, the fear of law and the resources of large companies means that the interests of smaller outfits and individuals are overwhelmed. This is not an efficiency, for the cost is not the natural cost of doing business, but an artificial one of compliance with the regulation.

    I should add that in the USA, cross-licensing of patent portfolios is commonplace, creating government-enforced cartels, as those working for such companies don't need to worry about compliance. This is actually proof that patent laws are inefficient, since firms would rather absolve one another of their patent obligations than enforce them. An excellent case against software patents is put forward by Laura Creighton, a software venture capitalist, to be found at http://www.vrijschrift.org/swpat/030508_1/.

    I am faxing, as well as emailing this letter because of the urgency of the issue: there is to be a series of meeting of patent officials throughout Europe on Thursday 23 October ahead of the meeting of the Competitiveness Council of Ministers.

    This is a serious worry for me, and not a theoretical idealisation. Everyone that I know in the industry has told be how worried they are about what future laws we are likely to end up with. I hope that you can put the case to Stephen Timms MP, the minister for e-commerce at the DTI, and cast your vote at a future date against an excessive patent regime.

    Yours sincerely,

    Tim Wesson.

  12. Fax your MP - I did. by jregel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Please do NOT copy this word for word. Personal faxes are better. Here's an edited version of my fax:

    Dear Mr David Drew,

    I am writing to you to make you aware of a very real problem that will affect the computer industry in the UK. I am a technical consultant for a software division of the ********* - one of the largest IT services companies in this country. I care passionately about this industry and want to see it succeed. Unfortunately the British Government is being encouraged to promote a draft resolution concerning software patents ("Directive on the Patentability of Computer-Implemented Inventions") that will cause great harm to many companies in the UK.

    As I am sure you are aware, the idea of patents is to foster innovation by encouraging individuals and companies to make public their work in exchange for certain rights (e.g., royalties obtained through licensing). While this concept works in many situations, the use of patents in computer software is damaging the IT industry by doing the exact opposite that was intended. This is the situation the United States finds itself in where software patents have been granted for several years.

    The main problem with software patents is that it is extremely difficult for non-technical individuals to determine whether a patent is actually valid or whether it is either obvious or subject to prior art without a significant investment of time and resources. As you can imagine, this places a great burden on the organisation responsible for granting the patent. The US Patent Office has typically dealt with software patents by granting them and allowing any dispute to be argued in the courts. This has resulted in a climate where patent portfolios are used as negotiation tools when dealing with other companies - you can safely infringe on other companies' patents if they infringe on yours, creating a patent "stalemate". This is leading to a stiffling of innovation, especially with smaller companies without a portfolio.

    On the 24th September, the European Parliament voted on a directive that included an ammendment that would prevent "a drift toward US-style patentability of pure software and business methods". Unfortunately, the European Commission are hostile to the aforementioned ammendment and are threatening to remove it. The British Government is being encouraged by the UK Patent Office to push a November 2002 draft that removes the ammendment in favour of a patent "free for all". The European Parliament's rules for second reading make it very difficult for MEPs to fix a bad text from the Council. Therefore is is imperative that the best possible text is promoted by the British Government.

    If the November 2002 draft is accepted, it will have a negative impact on the IT industry in the UK. The only people to benefit from such a law would be the US IT industry that already has a huge patent portfolio and patent lawyers. Everyone else will lose.

    A petition of over 288,000 names has been signed by people who work in IT in Europe and recognise the impact that software patents will have on both the industry and the economy. For more information on how widespread the concern for this issue is, please consult http://patents.eurolinux.org and http://swpat.ffii.org/

    I appreciate that the issue of software patents is dry and not particularly interesting, but in the interests of the software industry in this country, I would ask for your help. Please could you bring this issue to the attention of Mr Stephen Timms, the Minister for E-Commerce at the DTI, forwarding my concerns.

    Thanking you in anticipation.

    Regards

  13. Meanwhile, back in the U.S... by harriet+nyborg · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Do we have anything going on in Congress to limit the scope and term of software patents..

    Unlike the effort in Europe to actually change the law, software patents in the US are a result of the US Supreme Court's interpretations of existing law.

    The US Congress played no "direct" role in the creation of software patents in the US, rather it was a series of US Supreme Court decisions (Gottschalk vs. Benson - 1972), (Parker vs. Flook - 1978), Diamond vs. Chakrabarty - 1980), and (Diamond vs. Diher - 1981) which expanded the scope of patents to cover software.

    The US Congress did, however, during the 1990's change the laws to shorten the term of all US patents to 20 years.

    Hopefully, the European Parliament will be able to see through the dis-information spread by the FFII, the Eurolinux something or other, and pass meaningful legislation this time.

    Let us also hope that members of the Open Source movement will refrain this time from sending death threats to MEPs who do not support their radical and uninformed position.

  14. Re:Meanwhile, back in the U.S... by Halo1 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Hopefully, the European Parliament will be able to see through the dis-information spread by the FFII, the Eurolinux something or other, and pass meaningful legislation this time.
    I think the main problem of pro-swpat lobby in Europe is that the politicians of the European institutions who are pro-software patents, keep on repeating that they are actually against software patents, but pro patents on computer-implemented inventions.

    This forces those people to talk only about generalities and how much the industry depends on patents on "computer-implemented inventions", but they can never give any specific example. They are screaming bloody murder about the amendments voted by the European Parliament, but they have not yet given even one example of a patent on a "computer-implemented invention" (which is not a software patent) that will be invalidated by those amendments.

    If they would outright admit they were pro-software patents, at least it would be possible to discuss with them about whether or not those are good for the economy, innovation and society at large. Right now, the discussion often gets stuck at finding the imaginary difference between "pure software" and a "computer-implemented invention".

    --
    Donate free food here