Castlevania - Innocence Lamented, 3D Debated

Thanks to GameSpot for their review of Castlevania:Lament Of Innocence for PlayStation 2, released today in the U.S., as they pronounce this "new 3D installment" to be "a fun, though fairly short and simple, game that marks a promising new beginning for this beloved series." GameSpy also have an interview with the creator, Konami producer Koji Igarashi, but end up judging the title a "very playable but somewhat dull game", and 1UP try a different tack by nominating the Top 10 Belmonts, discussing the "Belmont family of vampire hunters", before ruling similarly to the other reviews, albeit with a more upbeat edge: "Taken on its own terms, Lament of Innocence is a resounding success, and one of the best 3D action games on PS2." Would you prefer the Castlevania series stuck to 2D, or is 3D the only way to truly evolve it?

Comments

2d isn't dead yet

[handsomepete]

Or at least it shouldn't be. Maybe everyone just wants to run around in a 3d environment doing combos judged on style. If that's the case and I'm in the minority, I'm fine with that. When I loaded up Super Mario Sunshine for the first time and got to the game choosing screen (with Mario on a 2d field and jumping up to hit a block with your game choice), I found that that's the game I wanted to play - the good looking 2d side scroller where I jump up and hit blocks. Maybe get an invincibility star or something once in a while.

The old formulas aren't all played out. Switching to 3d will not necessarily make things fresh and exciting and instantly subject the game to critical acclaim. That's why the GBA Castlevania games, even when releasing a new one every year, still get good reviews - they're good games in a 2d environment that are fun and allow some freedom and exploration. It's still all about gameplay and looking good, not the ability to move in 10 different directions.

2D vs. 3D

[neostorm]

Personally I'll always prefer the 2D games, and I'd love to see them carry on development for that style as well. However, eventually the series has to find it's way (back) to 3D, like it or not I suppose. Castlevanis has always meant a unique and fun experience to me. This series has a fantastic style and feeling to it that's all it's own.
I would love to see Konami keep that unique sensation when moving to 3D. Unfortunately I had bad feelings about this new game from the first few screenshots. The graphics aren't looking too hot, and I personally don't like the centralized level structure they used. I also don't want to do *combos* with my whip. I'm pretty sick of combos in games. If they had a convincingly elastic whip that you could use to wrap around enemies heads and throw them, or pop the skulls right off of the skeletons, that would be tons more fun as well as adding something unique back into the franchise. This outing seems to have lost a lot of the arcade goodness that has made the series so much fun.

Re:My lament..

[Anonymous Coward]

Castlevania X and Castlevania IV were two different games on the SNES. Castlevania 4 was done by the team that eventually broke off to form Treasure (Radiant Silvergun, Gunstar Heroes), and Castlevania X was a sad port/remake of Rondo of Blood.

Did you not like both of them, or are you getting the two confused?

Just a reminder

[darkmayo]

This is not the first foray into the 3d world for the francise.. The castlevania on the n64 was the first to break that wall.... will unfortunately poor results (imo)

2D is preferred but 3D is worth a try

[sknja]

As a big Castlevania fan, I had always hoped for a ps2 version. It would be nice to have something like Contra - Shattered Soldiers, a 2D side scroll with 3D like characters and environments.

When I heard it was going to be 3D I too had my doubts (and still will until I pick it up this morning). But I am willing to give it a try. Considering Konami producer Koji Igarash had his hand in it.

I think it will live up to one of the best 3D action games on the ps2, but it will be a bit tougher to live up to the Castlevania name, especially with the new GBA versions. Hell it already has Japanese voices which is a good first step in my book. Then again I think all Japanese originated games should have the original Japanese audio.

ato ni ji can gurai lament o kaemasu!

Screw the 3rd dimension...

[Joe the Lesser]

Let's skip to the 4th! Go hypercubes!

Who said 3D could side-scroll...

[jtpalinmajere]

This is a topic of which I am thouroughly interested. I think there is definitely something to be said about your classic side-scroller games like super mario brothers, contra, and castlevania. Taking these games into the realm of 3D, and all the benefits therein, does not mean you have to take away the all important side-scrolling aspect though. The latest smash brothers game is a good example of what I'm talking about. Granted the genre of that particular game does not allow it much extension into the free-roaming aspect of other games, but it serves at least as a visual guide for other games to follow suit.

That aside, there are also some very key places that I would much prefer a very detailed free-roaming 3D environment. If the game was focused on story moreso than gameplay and using camera angles and lighting to set moods and create drama, then there is a good reason to implement a free-roaming environment. I think that is where these new itereations of Castlevania and its look-alikes (Devil May Cry) are pushing towards.

This is not to say that gameplay is not an important factor, however, highly satisfying gameplay in a free-roaming environment requires some level of complexity that simply does not exist on your side-scroller games. Following this argument, if storyline and plot aren't incredibly key to your game's entertainment factor, you may want to consider making the game into a side-scroller, whether it be in 3D or 2D. I haven't actually played it, but I think Viewtiful Joe would be a prime example of this.

Re:Who said 3D could side-scroll...

[Metsys]

If the game was focused on story moreso than gameplay and using camera angles and lighting to set moods and create drama, then there is a good reason to implement a free-roaming environment.

... if storyline and plot aren't incredibly key to your game's entertainment factor, you may want to consider making the game into a side-scroller, whether it be in 3D or 2D.

I have to call fallacy on that one.

Just because a game is focused on story doesn't mean that it has to be 3D, or even top-down 2D for that matter. You can have an equally in-depth story in any genre of gaming. What you do in between is a different story. That's when you consider the view. Is the player going to be a commander of a small squad of followers? Is he a space pilot roaming the galaxy? Is she a prisoner trying to escape? Is he a street brawler?

Once you understand what your character is going to be doing most of the time that will be fun for the player, that's when you consider the view.

When developers want to make a 2D game 3D just for the sake of it being 3D, that's when you can start getting into problems. If that's the case with Lament of Innocence, I don't know. But I am convinced that some developers genuinely try to experiment in, say, the Castlevania series, because they have a gameplay idea that would work in a 3D environment, and still be true to the Castlevania experience. Take Metroid Prime for example.

Also, story might have little to do with the game and you just want to shoot thousands and thousands of mofos, go ahead and make a FPS like Serious Sam.

Re:My lament..

[pragma_x]

I couldn't agree more.

I'm worried that Lament won't live up to Symphony or Aria.

IMHO, massive portions of most people's entire game libraries fail to live up to Symphony where I'm concerned. That game still stands as the high-water mark for what a 2d adventure/platformer should be like.

If lament fails to live up to the franchise name, Konami should seriously re-visit Symphony and use it as a template for their next Castlevania title.

So they missed the moon.....

[August_zero]

I think the biggest thing this game has against it, is the astounding level of quality that Symphony of the Night possesed, and the fact that the 3 post SOTN gameboy castlevanias have all more or less followed it's apporoach (metroidesque) almost to the point of remake.

Now I would not say that Lament is "the bestest castlevania ever!" nor would I so far even consider it one of the top five installments of the series, but I am thus far very happy with it. It feels like a castlevania game, it looks good, the controls are solid, the bosses and enemy design are well done, and while I miss the more open ended style exploration of the latest installments, its still by all standards a really good game. I may also the only person that says this, but i still miss some of the jumping and instant death of the old school chapters.

What fills me with the greatest hope, is that there will be some sequels, and hopefully they will incorporate some of the refinement and artistry of the later 2d castlevanias. For a first go in 3d since the ummmm lets just skip the N64 sequels, its a solid effort and a worthwhile pick up for any fan.