HP Launches New Calculators

lar1 writes "It looks like HP is back in the calculator buisness! In a press release dated 2003 October 20, HP states: 'Within the next several weeks, HP will be launching three additional new calculators: two graphing and one scientific. The two yet-to-be-launched graphing calculators, together with the hp 49g+ and the entry-level hp 9g, will provide a complete range of graphing calculators expected to fulfill the needs and budgets of a broad spectrum of calculator users.' The 49g+ boasts features such as: USB and IrDA connectivity, a 75MHz ARM CPU, 2MB of flash, and an SD card slot. That's a lot of calculator!" We mentioned this calculator-on-growth-hormones earlier.

Comments

And the thought on everyone's mind is....

[JoeLinux]

...Polish Notation Reverse it is?

Re:And the thought on everyone's mind is....

[bmac526]

A different way of entering calculations. For example, to calculate 3+2, type:
3(enter)
2
+ (no equals sign)

or for (9+7)*3, type:
9(enter)
7
+
3
*

Takes a little getting use to, but after using it for a while, it becomes natural. I can barely figure out how to use a "regular" calculator now.
BTW, I'm the proud owner of an HP 32SII that hasn't needed a new battery in about 15 years.

Re:And the thought on everyone's mind is....

[andrew_0812]

RPN is great. Plus, when someone needs to borrow your calculator, it is fun to watch them try to figure out how to use it, then give it back in frustration. Once you get used to it, though, it really is much more efficient.

I still love my HP48gx.

Re:And the thought on everyone's mind is....

[terminal.dk]

I am also waiting for a cheaper feature rich RPN calculator.

Loves my HP11C, and thinks the HP48sx is great too. Need something good in HP11C / HP15C / HP16C quality and not too large. But RPN is necesary. Bought the very cheap HP-9S, and it is a big disappointment.

Re:And the thought on everyone's mind is....

[COLUG]

I for one
our new RPN overlords
welcome!

Who is it aimed at?

[soluzar22]

Calculators with way too much muscle are cool, and they do tap right into that geeky part of me that drools over lovely gadgets, but on the other hand, seriously, if it can do calculations in hex, that's all I need, and I'd be almost scared to use that one.

I mean, if you break it, it's cost you how much? The last super-beefy calc I owned set me back about UKP 75 and that was a long time ago. Plus, that was a long way away from what we're seeing here. Who are they aiming this at? I personally could never justify the expense of one like this, no matter how useful it may be.

Oh and BTW - First Post ;-)

-- Soluzar

Re:Who is it aimed at?

[daksis]

I too have fond memories of being jealous over the guy who had every physics formula ever programmed into his TI or HP super computer. But I'm a little curious, with hand held computers with 400mhz processors becoming the norm, will we soon see the death of the "Super Calculator"?

Re:Who is it aimed at?

[Joney]

I think it will be up to the schools to decide. I remember in high school if you had a HP with the IR port, they made you put electrical tape over the front to keep you from 'cheating'
but the designation calculator will allow these things to be used on tests where a 'pocket PC' or such will probably be prohibited, even if they do the exact same things, there is paranoia about that sort of thing.
I also remember when the TI9something came out with the QWERTY keyboard on it, my school also prohibited it's use, as it no longer resembled a calculator but in fact a computer.

Re:Who is it aimed at?

[proj_2501]

you cannot take SAT using a calculator with a QWERTY keyboard

Re:Who is it aimed at?

[Xerithane]

you cannot take SAT using a calculator with a QWERTY keyboard

One more reason why Dvorak is superior to QWERTY!

Re:Who is it aimed at?

[Guppy06]

"you cannot take SAT using a calculator with a QWERTY keyboard"

Which is a pretty damned stupid policy, IMO. The TI-89 and the TI-92+ are functionally identical. They are both way too powerful for there to be any good reason to allow the use of in undergrad entrance exams (and even some graduate entrance exams). Because of this stupid "no qwerty" rule, the TI-89 has slid underneath the radar and we now have kids taking the SATs with machines that know more math than they themselves do.

If the people that run these tests want to be taken seriously, they're going to have to get up off their asses and become familiar with the technology out there. Simply banning the use of calculators based on form factor makes their tests worth less than the paper they're written on.

(Not that this is anything new, mind you. Most lower-level undergrad classes say "no graphing calculators." But there are "normal" scientific calculators out there to be had that have such features as a numeric algebraic solver...)

Features

[mopslik]

The 49g+ boasts features such as: USB and IrDA connectivity, a 75MHz ARM CPU, 2MB of flash, and an SD card slot.

And it adds too!

Broken.

[grub]

Slashdot'd already. Here's the text:

HP (NYSE:HPQ) today announced the hp 49g+ abacus, the flagship of a
new line of powerful abaci to be launched this fall.

Built for scientists, engineers, mathematicians, surveyors and
students who need portable calculating power, the HP 49g+ abacus
performs all the basic math functions the user knows.
Total workspace includes an unprecedented 80 rows of 10 beads per,
broken into two 40 row columns side by side.

Priced at suggested retail of $99.99, the
abacus also allows for future upgrades via an included
toolkit which allows the user to remove each side bar permitting
access to the bead assembly for easy replacement of worn beads.

"The hp 49g+ is a powerful tool for professional
engineers or college students who prefer the SB (Sliding Bead) entry mode of
calculating ," said Fred Valdez, general manager, abacuss, HP
Personal Systems Group. "We've taken the original hp 49g and made it
streamlined, faster and shellaced to prevent splinters."

my question

[spammyy]

who needs that much in a calculator? i mean sounds ok for an entry level pda, but do you need that much? maybe they're trying to capture the calculator gaming world (who's played hick quest on their Ti83)

Re:my question

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not true. The hp48g was one of the most popular engineering calculators ever to grace the face of this earth. The hp49g was nothing but a fancy memory upgrade and new symbolic features that allowed the calculator to be more student-friendly. This new one, the hp49g+ is an extension of that. This is a big deal because hp had announced that they were no longer in the calculator business. Now they're saying here's some new calcs for you that are running on an ARM processor AND have all the goodies you're used to having. Trust me, none of the stuff on this calculator is just eye candy. The machine is pretty badass because it takes the best of the hp49g but gives it to us with hp48gx goodness.

Re:my question

[mblase]

who needs that much in a calculator?

Anybody who's gone beyond trigonometry in school into pre-calc and calculus. Anybody who uses calculus in the college classes on a regular basis.

You may not personally have any use for a handheld device that can integrate and differentiate symbolically, but those who do find these things indispensable.

75MHz ARM CPU

[Sir Haxalot]

WOW! That's faster than my first 486 computer, impressive!

Re:75MHz ARM CPU

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

WOW! That's faster than my first 486 computer, impressive!

I feel so old... so very very old.....

--

Call me a Luddite. . .

[bplipschitz]

but I won't be replacing my RPN HP-15C any time soon. I've had it since 1984, and it's still going strong.

Then again, I won't be replacing my slide rules, either. . .

What they don't say

[JamesP]

Is that 49g+ will be running a Saturn Emulator (not Sega Saturn, but the old 4 bit processor form the old ones)

HP your calculators were great, but stop crippling your products... Write another system. Yes, it's expensive, but TI does it right...

Re:What they don't say

[Detritus]

My guess is that it was cheaper to write a Saturn emulator for a modern commodity processor than it would have been to design a modern version of the Saturn, which is an ancient design on an ancient process. If you look at the spec sheet for the ARM variant (S3C2410X01 RISC Microprocessor) that HP is using, you will see that it has a ton of integrated goodies in addition to the ARM core. That's a lot of logic that HP doesn't have to design and test.

From the article

[pheared]

Subject suitability

* Engineering
* Surveying
* Math
* Science
* Statistics

Ugh.

[Quasar1999]

I refuse to use a device that is physically smaller than its getting started manual.

Re:Ugh.

[default luser]

Then you'll want to avoid both HP and TI.

The instruction book that came with my TI-82 was as thick as the calculator.

The instruction book that came with my TI-89 was twice as thick as the calculator.

In three years, TI will release a calculator with a manual the size of a phone book :)

Clac vs PDA

[magarity]

Just to play devil's advocate: Since PDAs can be had with 75Mhz ARM CPUs and much more memory, what makes this dedicated device better? Given the magins in hardware manufacturing, wouldn't HP be better off writing PDA software to do all of these functions?

Re:Clac vs PDA

[jonniesmokes]

You're right that the processor muscle is better on a PDA - but what a good calculator does is provide you with a great interface to do math. Having all the buttons right in front of you really does matter. Once you learn where the buttons are you can fly through calculations. Hunting through menus on a PDA or pecking a fake keyboard with a mouse on a screen isn't nearly as nice.

HP's 15C, 42S, and 48G are great. The neat thing about this new one is that you could probably power a sophisticated robot. You could even do the inverse kinematics on the fly.

Re:Clac vs PDA

[Foochar]

The interface is what makes the difference. I have an HP48GX as well as a Palm Tungsten E. Someone has written a 48SX/48GX/49G emulator that will on the palm. I have it, and it works great. There's nothing like being able to carry the functionality of my calculator with me wherever I go.

That being said, it is not a part and parcel replacement for my calculator. For intense operations the keypad on the real calculator is worlds better than clicking on the screen. The other thing is that the screen size of my calculator is just a little bit smaller than the screen of my palm, and on the palm screen you have to fit both the keypad and the calculator display.

Re:Clac vs PDA

[FrankDrebin]

wouldn't HP be better off writing PDA software to do all of these functions?

One problem with convergence of the general-purpose PDA and the calculator is that colleges ban the former from final exams because they can be used to store volumes of notes, even entire textbooks. There really is a market for college students, especially in engineering and sciences, for a good calculator without too much memory and fancy graphics, simply to help perform accurate calculations and nothing more.

Re:Clac vs PDA

[nonameisgood]

#1 reason: because the instructor or proctor won't let you in to the test with a PDA, but will with a really smart calculator.

HP doesn't get it yet. Word is Convergence.

[zymano]

I saw a $ 99 Pda at Compusa last week. By viewsonice
with rebates.

Now, I know they can't handle all the functions of the top of the line graphing calculator but they might if you have an emulator or other software.

The graphing calculator is dying out and being replaced by SUPERIOR technology. HP is not embracing the future by not coming out with a hybrid
pda/graphing calculator.

Updated ROM from the 49G

[Cochonou]

From the previous articles about the 49G+, it looks like the calculator is to run an updated 49G ROM (with the ARM9 will emulating the Saturn CPU from the 49G).

Now, I wonder if HP is going to make the updated ROM and its subsequent revisions available for 49G owners... that would indeed be very kind of them, but they might also want to increase their sales figures by making 49G zealots switch to the 49G+.

Great devices, for the computer as well

[Zergwyn]

I am very excited by this news. I swear by my 48gx, which has the most useful calculatlor I have ever used. RPN input is very fast, the stack is very useful, and it was really ahead of its time with features. However, it can be a bit pokey at times, making certain features less useful. However, it is also very good on the computer. In mid-2000, HP actually made the laudable move of releasing the HP48 ROM images to the public, so various emulators that work exactly like the real thing can be found for various platforms. For OS X, I would suggest using x48, which is even featured on Apple's website! You can find the original page here. Worth checking out. Also, HP48gx enthusiasts should check out metakernal, which, while it requires you to have an add-on memory card, can make the 48gx a lot more usable. It rewrites a lot of the core functions in assembly, making them far faster, as well as adding new features. It is also free now (minus the cost of the required card, obviously).

Add another item to the convergence pool

[DeepDarkSky]

Pretty soon, a little handheld gadget will be all of these:
- PDA
- Cell Phone
- Digital Camera
- Video player
- portable mass storage
- MP3 Player
- advanced graphing calculator ...there're so many, what have I missed?

You can bet something like this will not be allowed during test taking, that's for sure.

Re:Add another item to the convergence pool

[Milo77]

Of course some of these have conflicting goals. For example, i want my phone small so i can take it with me anywhere. For my calculator, i want a good sized keyboard (required for really high-speed input) and if it's graphing i want a big screen also. The size of my calculator matters less to me because i don't need to take it everywhere i go, and when i do take it somethere i usually have a backpack or briefcase or whatever. The input piece is important and i don't think it can be replaced by voice (imagine a test enviroment or a floor of actuaries) or stylus (drawing a "2" takes longer than just pushing the "2" button). On screen keyboards just don't provide the necessary tactile feedback and if your goal is to make them as small as possible then it becomes difficult to use both hands (when doing high-speed calculations with an hp32s2 you most certainly use both hands) and you increase the likelyhood that you'll either miss the key you were trying for or unintentionally hit others. This is what HP has always done right: their push buttons are the best. Convergence is neat, but it shouldn't sacrifice usability.

Are They....

[Anonym1ty]

• Do the new calculators also take pictures?
• Do the also make phone calls?
• Can I use it as a rolledex?
• Can I send e-mail from it?
• Can I IM people on it?
• Can I stream live video from it?
• Can I fax graphs from it?
• Can I look up a webpage on it?
• Can I listen to MP3's On it?
• Can I watch Videos on it?
• TV?

If it doesn't do ALL of this I am not impressed ---But that's just me

This is getting ridiculous...

[WIAKywbfatw]

It's way past the stage that these pocket calculators are calculators in the classical sense - these beasts are practically PCs.

When I sat my first recognised exams in mathematics (way back in the late 80s), the HP calculator I had then was programmable, and it was child's play to write programmes that solved quadratic equations, etc. Other kids in my class had models that had graphical displays that would give visual representations of equations, calculate integrals, etc.

And while most of us then where honest, because we knew our subject material, the potential for cheating (using a calculator to come up with an answer instead of working it out with your brain) was enormous.

Fast forward to today. I bet a fair few of these calculators-on-steroids will get bought by students that have no idea how to solve the problems set for them but are quite happy to just plug in a few numbers and have the calculator pop out the answers for them.

That's great if you want generations of kids who can use a programme someone else has written for them, not so great if you hope to teach those kids more complex maths, physics, engineering, etc later on.

My nephew is about to start the same exams I took 15+ years ago. There are no restrictions or checks on what calculators can be taken into any exam. How ridiculous is that?

Re:This is getting ridiculous...

[Cochonou]

I'd tend to disagree with you, even in the field of complex math teaching.

There is no denying that the CAS of these calculators is very powerful, and often can't be challenged for solving equations or calculating triple integrals. But at best, these kinds of tools can help you working faster and more efficiently, but not do the work for you.
In physics, the calculator (or Maple, Mathematica, Matlab..) can solve your equations saving your time - and some of your nights - but cannot put into equations your problem which is the real deal.
In mathematics, the calculator might be capable of determining the kernels and images of linear applications as an example, but comes short for solving anything that requires to find a proper demonstration. So it won't get you very far.

At last, it could be argued that because of the huge amount of memory modern calculators feature, student are becoming lazy and shove all the formulas into their calcs instead of learning them. Yes, it might be a shame. However, it is sometimes said that the important is not to know all the information by heart, but to know where you will be able to find it.

Re:Good news for overprivileged children everywher

[jasonbowen]

I know of several schools that don't allow calculators during exams in calc and physics.

HP: Where's the updated 16c?

[billnapier]

Screw all those nice graphics and algebraic equation solvers, what I want is an HP 16c". They're on e-bay for $140 or so, which is a little expenseive for a at least 14 year old calculator. HP, bring back an improved 16c!

How long till Linux port?

[TokyoBoy]

Hm....2MB flash, SD card slot, ARM CPU...looks like a Linux port is a no-brainer.

Any bets on how long till Linux's first boot on an HP49g+?

Re:HP doesn't get it yet. Word is Convergence.

[Slack3r78]

My computer has this nice little calculator program on it. Ocassionly, I'll run into something while I'm working on the computer that requires me to do some quick math. What do I do? Pick up my TI calculator that I leave sitting by it and punch it in.

I'm sorry, PDA's are a nice technology, but they in no way are superior to a good calculator. With my calculator, everything I need is either right there, or at most 2-3 menu levels down. Whereas with a PDA, I'd be lucky if I could do anything much more complex than basic math without wasting time digging through menus, no matter how well organized.

That said, HP DOES have a hybrid - the iPaq line. But they're also smart enough to realize that those who need to solve problems that are of more than marginal complexity will appreciate a tool made to do just that in the most efficient manner possible.

The Best HP Calculator Site

[wsloand]

For the interested, the site that I've always found the best info on HP calculators and software for them is http://www.hpcalc.org/.

How Robust are they and what about the buttons?

[mykepredko]

I have two (2, 0b010) HP-16C calculators that are both going on 20 years old and they are one of the best investments I've ever made. Along with them, I've had a variety of gonculators over the years, but these are the only ones I regularly lock up.

Along with the Hex and Binary functions, the cases of the calculators are rock solid (they've been dropped probably a total of 100 times) and the buttons have a nice solid "click" to them to give you feedback saying that the button was pressed. The button legends are molded into the plastic, so you will never wear them off.

The ARM processor, flash memory are nice, but the only thing that would make me consider giving up my everyday TI-83 (and the '16Cs) would be if the case was as rugged as the original HPs, and the buttons where of the same high quality.

myke

Re:How Robust are they and what about the buttons?

[darrylo]

You need to follow the comp.sys.hp48 newsgroup. I don't think you'll like the hp49g+ keyboard.

Re:Save Your Money

[The boojum]

Possibly so, but to my mind the main advantage of my HP is the reverse polish notation with the stack. RPN requires demonstrably fewer keystrokes to enter and you don't have to worry about remembering how the calculator implements order of operations. Plus I can sanity check an expression as I go along, seeing the intermediate results on the stack. Also, the stack obviates the need most of the time for storing partial results. Standard algebraic notation on a calculator becomes very uncomfortable after a short time with RPN.

So no, it may be more expensive, but I think even its basic features short of storing answers justify the extra expense.

HP still dropping calc line

[nedron]

To my knowledge, there ahas been no change to HPs decision to drop their line of calculators. These models were already in the pipeline and were mentioned in HPs "we're out of here" announcement.

So, while it's good news, for these three models, I'm still pretty sure it's the end of the line for HP.

HP Calulators, all others are just ordinary

[Nonillion]

I have used HP calculators for years. I have a 42S and a 48GX, both are still giving me years of faithful and trouble free service. What impressed me was the ability to use complex numbers, like negative sqroots and to calculate !n 256 (can't remember if it was 253 or 256). And lets not forget RPN, the oly way to do math :)

I have even surfed the net with my 48GX via a telnet connection to my linux box. Anything else is just ordinary...

Keep thoes calculators comming HP.

What I want...

[Experiment 626]

I first got a HP48SX in 1989 (or maybe 90) and it was very amazing technology. Since then they've done the GX and the 49, which are nice improvements but basically just small incremental upgrades, which is disappointing considering all the new technology that has come out during that time period. Calculators basically hit their peak and then stagnated for over a dozen years and couting.

Here's what I think the ubercalculator of 2003 should be. The technology exists to make it, sure it wouldn't be cheap, but what nerd wouldn't want one...

I'd design such a beast as basically a PDA, but specialized in serious math rather than tracking appointments. Give it a fold-open design with a scientific calculator keypad on one part and a full-color TFT QVGA screen. A nice 400-mhz or so processor to manipulate even symbolic equations quickly. An operating environment that resembles neither a daytimer or a more primitive calculator, but best described as Pocket Mathematica. USB, IRDA, and Bluetooth connectivity, a nice recharging cradle, and have it come preloaded with a a vast collection of equations, reference charts, and such from a variety of disciplines... mathematics, physics, chemistry, engineering, statistics, etc.

No, no professor in their right mind would let you use such a monstrosity on a test, but I imagine there are other geeks out there who would want it. Or maybe I've just dreamed up a calculator so excessive you'd be better off using a small laptop. /shrug

The Surveyors Market could be driving this

[C. Alan]

It is a little known fact that the 48gx makes an excellent platform for Data Collecting, and doing field calcs for land surveying. When you are out in the field, the 48gx can be easily placed in a water proof case, and used to send, recieve, and store data from a surveyor's total Station. The battery life is suppior to PDAs, and weather resistant PDAs are pretty pricy.

One a side note, It is pretty hard to crash a 48gx. I shutter to think about using a windows CE PDA, only to loose 8 hours of work to a tiny blue screen of death.

There are a couple of good software packages out that support the 48gx, and most cost way more than the calculator.

--C. Alan

Budding Engineers

[goodhell]

Students in the engineering field might want to reconsider purchasing a beauty like this. According to the NCEES website. You cannot use this for the F.E.E. See here for their faq.

Mainly it is non-IR, and non-text editing. They pretty much want you to go back to using slide-rules for taking their exam. This new policy goes into effect in April 2004.

It really pisses me off, because now I have to go buy an older calculator so I can take their f#@#$ing exam to show that I can be an engineer. Just 'cause a few people go in there and try to steal the questions. Stupid!!

Good this is

[JeffTL]

Polish notation reverse very efficient is. Like Latin it feels. Hewlett Packards very good are, but I my TI-83 prefer. When RPN I need GNU dc I use then.

Re:HP still dropping calc line - NOT

[Pinball Wizard]

http://www.hp.com/calculators/news/index.html

A choice quote:
"The bottom line is that HP calculators are here to stay and they are going to be better than ever, giving our customers more than ever."

But hey, don't let a silly little thing like facts get in your way of proclaiming the end of the line for HP calculators.