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Panther Released into the Wild
u2fan00 writes "Those fortunate enough to have an Apple Store near them were in for a treat last night -- crowds! Oh, and also Panther. Check out the local reactions, photos and stories from some stores across the nation."
Geeze. I saw the crowd last year at Lenox Mall in Atlanta for the Jaguar release, so I cleverly waited one entire day.
:-)
The Lenox Mall Apple store is a bit of a drive, so I went to the Micro Center not far from where I live. They're sort of a baby Fry's, but more expensive and nowhere near as good. This is, unfortunately, the South, and you take what you can get here. It beats Bosnia.
I walked into the Apple department, grabbed a copy of Panther, and asked if I needed to ring it up there or if I could keep shopping. The salesman put a sticker on it and told me to buy it up front, and then tossed a couple of freebies on the pile... a mousepad and a 64MB USB flash drive.
So I got a much shorter drive, no parking hassles, and a free USB drive in exchange for waiting a day. Calling this a no-brainer seems an understatement.
No impressions yet, I'm backing up before installing. Ok, one impression: the box is cool. Big silver X on a black background. Box upgrades are very important, you know.
... don't give educational discounts. You have to order online for that. So if you're a student, don't go trucking out to the store... you can't get it for $70 there.
I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
if you do an upgrade, you will be in a world of pain.
all the problems I have read about have been from simple upgrades, everyone who has not had problems has done an archive install or an erase install.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
The seed 7B85 is slightly different than the retail version. OS9 installer drivers are not on 7B85.
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
Some people with in-house AirPort networks have run into difficulties after installing panther. If this is happening to you, Apple has already given a workaround here.
Also, Control-d now selects the dock and allows for keyboard navigation rather than getting sent to the app you want it to be sent to (such as terminal). I haven't figured out how to turn this off, but you can work around it by using the option key in addition to the control key (so Control-Option-d instead of just Control-d).
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
John Carmack writes very, very portable code. You should have no trouble moving to panther for your dev work. However:
Are there any good tutorial sites for gamers like myself who want to switch ?
Note that you WILL NOT be using your mac to play games. The games support just isn't there. You can play a small, random, usually not terribly good selection of the games that were released for the PC six months to a year ago. As a developer, your mac will make you extremely happy. As a gamer it will not.
Panther is cool; I like "Expose" pretty well.
For those unix types I have two issues so far:
1) the cocoa version of emacs I was using is broken by panther
2) the version of x11 I downloaded from apple is not automatically updated. You must update it manually from disc 3. Note that the old one is broken by panther.
I also needed to reinstall Microsoft Office X, but it is working fine now.
USE THAT FEEDBACK FORM. Submit ALL the bugs you ran across, all the bugs you just told us. If your bug is a dupe of someone elses, that is ok. These bugs may be obvious to you, but they may not be quite so much so to the coders at Apple. They can't fix what they don't have catalogued.
Included in the box (what a cool black box it is, too!) is a development environment CD (compilers, APIs, SDKs, and the xcode IDE).
I'm happy to see Apple still giving the development tools away for free.
Oh my fucking god yes.
I'm a game developer,mostly console, who just got my FUCKING WONDERFUL new dual G5 a couple of weeks ago. It's been two weeks of pure ecstasy.
Dual 2gig G5s - PPC assembly, wonderful
Altivec
9800 Pro with OpenGL
BSD layer + Fink for all the unix tools you'll will ever need
Apple Tech + Next Tech + Java Tech for tool development
Haven't spent enough time with XCode yet.
http://www.idevgames.com/ is a good source of info
And of course:
http://developer.apple.com/games/
The Max OS X Panther 10.3 box includes 4 CDs... three for 10.3 and it's accessories (keep in mind these three CDs include localizations for 12 languages)... and a development environment CD containing compilers, various SDKs, and the feature-filled xCode IDE.
It's a bit alien to those not used to the NeXT way, but it only took my roommate about 15 minutes to find his way around. Both of us have already converted most of our projects to xCode.
Gotta say I was drooling when they announced the G4 iBooks, lamenting my Applecare isn't up til May, but this has breathed new life into my iBook 500. I backed up to Peerless (hush - they were $50 EOL) and did an upgrade install - no problems so far. Given the backup, I may backup again now and do an erase install...
Everything is much faster. Mail.app has to reindex, Preview will now be my pdf viewer, and the calculator actually remembers which mode you quit it in. Sorry I paid for Koalacalc. The network panel is informative and rather than a clicking party.
Only drawback is without Quartz Extreme my Expose is doing about 3 fps, but it still does what's needed.
Only grip is that the new finder windows w/o toolbars have a very subtle facing - then you enable the new finder windows in full regalia, and they get the old brushed metal, which looks rough in comparison.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I've upgraded every time since 10.1, hitting all the revisions in between. I did an upgrade install with Jag and did one again on Panther. Not a problem; everything's working fine.
The people who seem to have problems with upgrades are the ones who install all that unsanity haxie garbage. At least, that seems to be a common denominator among most troubled upgrades.
I am not Herbert.
Upgrading vs. Clean install
.
:)
Profile: 12.1 1ghz G4 powerbook CDRW
First impressions - sucks of an "upgarde" - meaning taking 10.2.8 install and going to try and install 10.3 ON TOP of the install and save all the settings and
Safari and Internet Explorer didn't launch AT ALL.
Roxio Toast doesn't work AT ALL
Start up scripts were not preserved (custom mysql and apache installs from source)
Non-proper shutdown and had to force quit a NUMBER of times - 5 total out of 7 reboots
A number of noticable features were just do not working or didn't show up in the "upgrade" that are avaible in the FULL BLOWN FROM SCRATCH.
Full blown INSTALL -> backedup via ipod
Features are rich, vivid colors.
VERY quick launch, and seems to be a lot of enhancements to make the kernel quicker with its module.
Roxio Toast 6 STILL doesn't work.
I HATE the box feature around icons on the deaktop, however the icon blowup is VERY nice
Mail client, Safari, and Bluetooth support seemed to have been upgraded to provide better broadcast of devices and looks nice.
I think that my final verdict is that I'm going to STAY with 10.3, but if you are doing a simple install OVER your current install of 10.2.8 its completely worthless. Back up ALL your stuff.
If you have customised your mac, desktop or powerbook, 10.3 will NOT bring you any added benifit. Sure there are 150 updates, but non of them are like the 10.1 -> 10.2 upgrade by roping in the lead BSD developer to fix a LOT of performance issues that were present.
HOWEVER, if you are a software developer, you will enjoy the better customisations that are avalible in the install -> namely the install of X11.
Another "JUST DOESN"T WORK" out of the box features, is the compile of PHP 4.x and 5.x-beta. Some how the DNS package so files just are NOT working. I have yet to find a solution but I'll keep looking.
Rating: 7/10
Plus: faster, seems to be more stable, has a lot of "creature comfort" upgrade, Xcode tools look to be a HUGE plus
Con: Roxio, and PHP don't work out of the source installs at ALL. no MAJOR blemishes, but it seems to be more cosmetic and little features rather than "functional" ground shaking updates Could have simply kept on patching vs. a FULL upgarde and marketing of the product.
These are not un-common problems with clean-up OS releases. A major release example would be Windows 98 -> Windows Me which was more of a huge PATCH, rather than a real OS upgrade. Windows 2000 was the REAL release, and I think that the NEXT release should be 11 with some BETTER upgrade features.
What was the last version of OS X you ran on your iMac? The first couple point releases were dogs on older machines, but Jaguar made great strides in that area, and from what I hear, Panther goes even further. However, I think the grandparent was talking about the UI, not the performance. You have to admit, the Jaguar UI is far better than Gnome, KDE, or any other Linux UI.
Apple moves their release numbers long like this:
- 7AXX
- 7BXX
We are now on 7CXX (10.3.1). Jaguar was released at 7C115. So no, there is no name attached to the number. Maybe its a feline food?
Maybe your thinking of a windows upgrade?
seSales, Point of Sale software for OS X.
After using 10.0 for a few months, my mind started melting away and Apple released 10.1. Yay.
After using 10.1 for almost a year, my sanity for a sane user experience started wearing thin. Finally Apple released 10.2, which was also much snappier. And it was something to rival OS 9 in a give-or-take competition for usability vs. stability, with Jaguar clearly winning.
But Panther just blows the doors off of.., um, not sure which doors I'm talking about. Let's put it this way in terms of performance. I used xbench to measure before and after the upgrade.
10.2.8 scores
CPU: 65.14
Thread Test: 35.3
Memory: 63.7
Quartz: 66
OpenGL: 60.5
UI (aqua controls): 57.87 (18.51 refresh/sec)
10.3.0 scores
CPU: 78.87
Thread Test: 60.95
Memory: 103.96
Quartz: 102.62
OpenGL: 78.6
UI (aqua controls): 141.58 (45.54 refresh/sec)
Totals:
10.2: 57.75
10.3: 85.19
Yes, HOLY CRAP this Mac is faster! My Q3A framerate jumped 15 fps (using the Q3 G4 beta). And the UI experience is much much smoother now, really the way OS X should be. Most notably, sheets and other window animation is VERY fast, and they now properly supplement the user experience, instead of just being eye candy. The Dock still sucks, but you can finally hide apps from the Dock contextual menu.
So, if you're sitting on the fence, jump off. If you thought Macs were slow, they just got a bit faster.
Moderators should have to take a reading comprehension test.
when was the last time an MS OS gave you a free IDE?
Not to mention the best one. Of course I'm biased, but IMO Xcode is 10 times better than VS. Things like fix and continue, pure genius.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
How so? What am I missing out on? I've tried the mail.app, latest Netscape, OE/Entourage, and Nissus email app. Eudora seems to be working fine for me. Haven't had any problems. It filters mail fast (200+ filters) on 60 or so messages a day. I have email back as far as 1998, taking up around 150MB of disk space. Never had it quit on me or freak out. Working as a Mac tech, never had to trouble shoot anything with it, other than wrong settings. Can't say that for OE and Netscape.
I drank what? -- Socrates
You have to bootstrap the 0.6 release yourself.
I compiled it today, and it works perfectly. Just finished installing MySQL from fink, no problems whatsoever.
Not true.
You have to turn it on using the info window for your project if you want it to happen automatically. It's a performance thing.
Otherwise, to invoke completion -- in any Cocoa text view, not just the Xcode editor -- you just hit option-escape.
Umm.... I would hardly describe the current Mac game situartion as "a small, random, usually not terribly good selection"!
Let's see.... Unreal Tournament 2003, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 and 4, Wolfenstein 3D, Quake 3 Arena, Kelly Slater Pro Surfer, Tiger Woods PGA Tour Golf from EA Sports, Warcraft 3 + Frozen Throne expansion set, Warrior Kings, Stronghold, Dungeon Seige, Age of Mythology, Age of Empires 2, Halo (due out before Xmas), James Bond: A Spy in H.A.R.M.'s Way, Medal of Honor + expansion pack, Jedi Knight II, Soldier of Fortune II..... not to mention some really teriffic stuff put out by the little guys/shareware authors, like Enigmo.
I'd say things in the Mac gaming world are looking better now than they have in years - and it damn sure looks better than my Linux gaming selection. No, they still don't have anywhere near the number of titles available for the PC, but so many PC titles are a waste of money. It seems to me they only take the time to port the "cream of the crop" of what's already out for PC, and that's fine with me. Unless you pirate everything, you're not really going to be able to buy all the new game titles they crank out for the PC, anyway.
(Well, I could live without that port of Bloodrayne for the Mac, but hey - I've seen worse....)
Not to rain on your parade but VS had that for a while now. I use both XCode/ProjectBuilder and VC6/VC7 on regular basis and I still think VS does a way better job (MFC/.NET versus Cocoa is another story - Apple is better, Win32 is just huge pile of mess). BTW, this is coming from a guy that is privately a Mac user. Give credit where credit is due...
I must be the only one in the world who hates the Dock with a passion. "Hey, lets mix running application icons with non-running application icons! How intuitive!"
You must be the only one in the world who has Dock that does not distinguish running an non-running apps. The rest of us use Dock that differentiates them by means of a bold black triangle (running) or a lack of it (non running).
Actually, your mac did reboot after the Disc 1 install. If you weren't there you missed the' This machine will restart in 30 seconds dialog." Then your Mac rebooted, kicked out the CD, and asked for Disc 2. You weren't around so it went to sleep. After the core OS is installed from Disc 1, you are right, it doesn't need to restart after Disc 2 and/or 3.
Never pet a burning dog.
Encountered only two problems.
First, CodeTek Virtual Desktop seems to be incompatable with Panther; it crashes every open app when running.
Second, Duality (a skin changer) fails. However, Panther's UI is somewhat similar to the UI I had the system skinned to, anyhow (Milk).
Read several places on the net that the educational discount for Panther is ONLY available from Apple on the network Apple store. I think such educational discounts have been handled thios way for some time.
Sucks to not have a Windows-like taskbar and be forced to use these lame workarounds.
Er, there's that Dock thingy. Windows users, habituated to running everything full-screen, just don't "get" Expose. "Huh? You mean I can see windows from more than one program on screen at the same time? And drag-and-drop stuff between them?"
In addition to the points made by the other posts,the timed system sleep feature is managed by the settings in NVRAM. The installer boots a bare-bones version of OS X off the CD which has a complete kernel and obeys these stored settings.
There was no big crowd at the Palo Alto Apple store on Saturday night because Panther went on sale 8pm on *Firday* night, you fuckwit.