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Defense Department Drafts RFID Policy

Bob Wehadababyitsaboy writes "According to CNET News, the Department of Defense has announced its new policy of requiring all suppliers to use RFID chips in all goods supplied to the military by 2005, except on bulk commodities such as sand, grit or liquids. It claims that this move will help them streamline inventory and delivery of vital supplies around the world."

156 comments

  1. Dammit... by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 5, Funny

    With improved inventory controls, how the hell am I going to get my hands on a 'surplus' tank now?

    --
    Beep beep.
    1. Re:Dammit... by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Funny
      So? Swap the tags. With "improved inventory controls", no one is going question that your surplus MRE looks rather large and tank-like.

      The attitude "The computer said so, so it must be right" is always amusing to the people who program them.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    2. Re:Dammit... by RealUlli · · Score: 2, Funny
      So? Swap the tags. With "improved inventory controls", no one is going question that your surplus MRE looks rather large and tank-like.

      Better yet, reprogram the computer so it says "MRE, over the best before date". When it's capable to move on its own, you better get rid of it. - When it makes the ground shake slightly when moving, better get rid of it QUICKLY! - "Here, let me help you... "

      Cheers, Ulli

      --
      Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible.
    3. Re:Dammit... by halo8 · · Score: 1

      speaking as an adult whose childhood was a "base brat" this should have been modded insightful not funny *sigh*

      --
      The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
    4. Re:Dammit... by Odin's+Raven · · Score: 1
      So? Swap the tags. With "improved inventory controls", no one is going question that your surplus MRE looks rather large and tank-like.

      And somewhere out there will be a Third World dictator screaming in frustration when his black market "surplus" tanks come in little packages labeled "Beefsteak w/Mushrooms", "Chili and Macaroni", ...

      --
      A marriage is always made up of two people who are prepared to swear that only the other one snores.
    5. Re:Dammit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but drugs are fun. Linux is just painful.

    6. Re:Dammit... by AndroidCat · · Score: 1
      Who knows, maybe some Third World dictator will find that using "Beefsteak w/Mushrooms" on the population will work much better than shooting or rolling over them with "MRE"s? Better to have them happy, productive and fed than unhappy, revolting and dead. It could work!

      And I am Marie of Romania...

      More likely, they just use RFID tags on the population. (Maybe they'll use surplus ones? "Halt! You are, *beep*, Mr. Nike Hightop?")

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    7. Re:Dammit... by cluckshot · · Score: 1

      This is classic. A new technology that probably would have molded along with some success. DOD steps in and assures it dominance in the market regardless of other similar use technologies.

      For those who don't remember this is how that "Great Inventor" Bill Gates got a product he bought (DOS) relabeled (MS DOS)and finally (Windows) into Market Dominance. No it wasn't genious of Inventing, it was sales to the right guys and everything else died in the DOD Footprint! I know it will hurt those who believe Microsoft was a wonderful Inventive Group, but they have no such history. They just got a big hand from the US DOD. Free Enterprise had nothing to do with it.

      --
      Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
  2. ummmm....this is a dupe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the past week...
    I know I've seen this recently

  3. I feel safer already... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    I've seen these systems in action...

    Scan, scan, scan... Check one box. Scan, scan, scan. Mistakes aren't noticed for months.

    SGT: Quick Private, Go get a box a gas masks for those civilians
    PRVT: Hey, this box is just full of baked beans

    1. Re:I feel safer already... by PhxBlue · · Score: 2, Funny

      SGT: Quick Private, Go get a box a gas masks for those civilians
      PRVT: Hey, this box is just full of baked beans

      SGT: Close enough for government work!

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    2. Re:I feel safer already... by lordrich · · Score: 1

      And with that amount of baked beans you really will need gas masks!

  4. Prediction... by ivi · · Score: 3, Insightful


    High-Powered Aircraft-Based RFID Transmitters
    with Super-Sensitive Receivers...

    The Easiest Way to Count Your Enemy's Resources

    (Or are all these RFID's only in the packaging,
    or only with the items they label until
    they have been checked-in the first time?

    1. Re:Prediction... by iceco2 · · Score: 1

      It is simpler than that, by placing very small
      devices near the gate of a military base one can
      easily keep track of everything moving in and out.

      It is possible to make more soficiticated devices
      with encryption of some sort, a chap method or
      syncronized clocks. It is probably possible to
      make these devices moderatly secure, or even
      very secure. I don't see this being done.

      One would think the military whould find this type
      of security important. Yet the militarty keeps showing just how stupid large orgenizations can get with out falling apart.

      Me.

    2. Re:Prediction... by mickwd · · Score: 4, Funny

      Captain: Private, you've done the electronic sweep, are there any enemy soldiers nearby ?

      Private: No, SIR. But there's a pair of boots, a combat jacket and a rifle hiding behind that tree.....

    3. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly my worry, too. I hope Canada doesn't follow suit. Giving the enemy a way to track your supplies is just plain dumb.

    4. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that's scary

    5. Re:Prediction... by Afty0r · · Score: 1
      It is simpler than that, by placing very small
      devices near the gate of a military base one can
      easily keep track of everything moving in and out.


      Not at all - see, RFID tags work by responding to a transmission. You would have to have a transmitter close by a military base constantly transmitting. How long do you think that will last?
    6. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what about just passive listening?
      (for the interogator and the tags responses).

      With multiple receivers you may
      just triangulate the signal sources and have
      even more precise inforation about position of all the stuff.

      (with this you don't need to know that much about encoding anyway)

      If nothing is interogating then you just drop in something pretending to be an interrogator.
      (some cheap disposable bug good only for few days)

    7. Re:Prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, no pants?

    8. Re:Prediction... by t0ny · · Score: 1

      If the enemy is close enough to scan your RFID tags, the tags are the least of your concerns.

      --

      Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.

    9. Re:Prediction... by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1
      Not at all - see, RFID tags work by responding to a transmission. You would have to have a transmitter close by a military base constantly transmitting. How long do you think that will last?

      No need. Just find a transmitter near the camp entrance and put up a purely passive reciever. The 'official' transmitter will activate the tags. All you have to do is read their responses.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    10. Re:Prediction... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      No need. Just find a transmitter near the camp entrance and put up a purely passive reciever. The 'official' transmitter will activate the tags. All you have to do is read their responses.

      I seriously doubt they'll be doing RFID tracking right at the front gate, if for no other reason than the very one you mention.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    11. Re:Prediction... by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Instead of snipers up in the hills, you'll be looking for camoflaged RFID reception parabolic mirrors.

      Sir! Signals intelligence indicates that the enemy has just dispatched 1 bradley fighting vehicles and 4 APCs with 34 marines -- probably from the 3rd batallion -- which indicates that they've recieved reinforcements.

      Thank you corporal. Anything else to report?

      A four day supply of food and 50,000 rounds of ammunition.

      That definitely indicates reinforcements.. Yesterday's patrol had a 1 day supply and only 8000 rounds of ammunition

      This, of course, would open up entierely new avenues of misinformation:
      Sir: I've got bad news and more bad news. The first bad news is that Division headquarters has said that they can't get rienforcements to us for another 4 days and they can only do one -- very small -- supply drop. The other bad news is that I think we've found an enemy RFID reciever pointed at our east gate.

      Thank you Seargent. Tell your men that they are NOT to destroy the RFID reciever, then tell signals to request that the supplies shipment include 35 sets of uniforms that have been used by members of another batallion as well as the RFID tags from their weapons and the RFID tags from 200 boxes of ammunition. and 500 MREs.

      Sir?

      That's all Seargent. I'll explain the rest to you later.

      Where there's a war, there's a wound.
      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  5. Face it by NaCh0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These high-tech barcodes are becoming commonplace if you like it or not.

    1. Re:Face it by pvt_medic · · Score: 1

      This is just going to set a standard. The military for the longest time has set standards that are eventually adopted into the civilian sector.
      I mean hell you can see their effects in everything, flight, navigational, medicine, batteries, so guess what by like who knows 2010 RFID will be in everything (not that it took the military to do this) but it will just reinforce this drive.

      --
      30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
      Score:5, Troll
    2. Re:Face it by greenhide · · Score: 1

      I mean hell you can see their effects in everything, flight, navigational, medicine, batteries... ...the Internet....

      Geez, I thought I'd be the last person in the world to say this, but the military has occasionally introduced some good, positive technology.

      --
      Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
  6. Portman? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    except on bulk commodities such as sand, grit or liquids

    What about hot grits?

    1. Re:Portman? by BenitoM · · Score: 1

      Obviously goes with the hot liquids

    2. Re:Portman? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which obviously goes with Portman, Natalie, one each.

  7. cost? by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Funny

    are the RFID tags gonna cost taxpayers $6k each?

    --
    This space available.
    1. Re:cost? by MegadeTH_ · · Score: 1

      Not quite but the effect is the same.

      Figure a box of screws costs 10 cents, now they need a 5 cent tag, so the DOD pays 15 cents for the same parts.

      The contractors that supply the parts are the ones that will be passing on the costs to the gov.

    2. Re:cost? by BoneFlower · · Score: 1

      How else do we pay for black ops?

    3. Re:cost? by oobar · · Score: 1

      No, but what will cost a fortune is that the government will require the entire surplus inventory of spare unused RFID tags to each have their own RFID tag, which in turn are themselves RFID-tagged, and so on.

  8. RFID mines by mlush · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Build a RFID detector into a mines, boobytraps etc. If your in RFID range your in the killzone

    1. Re:RFID mines by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

      Better yet: Don't use mines. There are still dozens of countries where civilians still step on mines from past wars.Many countries have already banned these things (guess which nation didn't).

      Just say no to mines.

    2. Re:RFID mines by mlush · · Score: 1
      Better yet: Don't use mines. There are still dozens of countries where civilians still step on mines from past wars.Many countries have already banned these things (guess which nation didn't).
      Just say no to mines.

      Hmmmm

      • America is currently engaged in a War on Terror
      • The US Military are to use RFID chips

      With these two points in mind consider who is going to be using the mines and on whom. For bonus points, consider how likely the aggressor is to give up any class of weapons (gas, guns, mines, microbes, 747's etc etc)

    3. Re:RFID mines by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1
      It's OK we don't use mines in the USA so we don't really care!

      It would be cute if I was actally joking, huh...

  9. Sluggish by humpTdance · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It may be required by suppliers in 2005, but that doesn't necessarily mean the military will successfully implement the technology by then. From my personal experience, IT tends to move incredibly slowly. It has taken more than 6 years and counting to implement Public Key Infrastructure; it has taken more than 10 years and counting for the Defense Message System. I won't be holding my breath on RFID.

    1. Re:Sluggish by MegadeTH_ · · Score: 1

      Dont hold your breath too long.

      Drive by any AMC installation, you'll see little towers at the gate, those are the RFID towers.

      All of USARPAC (hawaii/alaska/japan) has been the test site, they have the towers at each gate, and each supply warehouse door, so far it works pretty well.

      Top funded things like this are much easier to field.

      Not sure why, but army IT is horrible 10 years behind, they need to fire most of the signal command chain of command, luckly this is NOT being pushed by the IT side, but by the loggies.

    2. Re:Sluggish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This initiative is similar to one that Wal Mart is pushing in the private sector.

      Slashdot | Walmart to Push RFID

      Since Wal Mart is, basically, the worlds biggest retail entity; if Wal Mart says RFID will be integrated into the supply chain, believe me, RFID will be integrated into the supply chain. Comply peacefully, you will be assimilated.

      And hey, if the USDoD likes it too, good for those suppliers who have already implemented RFID.

      It may take beyond 2005 to have a smoothly running operation, with some level of interoperability and standards (as an integrator, it's a real jungle out there with ISO, Matrics, Alien formats, etc.) But the seemly endless boatloads of cash as reward to whoever pulls off a working solution makes it just a matter of time...

    3. Re:Sluggish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a friend who was a programmer in supply. He likes to tell the story of how he wrote a piece of software that automated mosted of this mess years ago. The officer above him sunk the project not because it wasnt good or wouldnt help save money or make supply better. He sunk it because it would put 300 people out of work. Up till about the mid 90s they were still using punch cards in some places. This is the same crap my dad used in the early 70's.

      During peace time the military is a political organization. During war things get done otherwise people die. The main line of the military will see this in about 15 years, when there is something better out already.

      That ladies and gentelman is how the tail wags the dog...

    4. Re:Sluggish by MegadeTH_ · · Score: 1

      catch up, it's already in use in 1 theater! See above.

  10. Hmm... by mgcsinc · · Score: 1

    Isn't the way this is worded a bit odd? Instead of a policy of buying only RFID'ed stuff, they are actually mandating that the RFID be put in?

    1. Re:Hmm... by humpTdance · · Score: 1

      No, it's not surprising at all; this puts the burden of RFID on the suppliers' head. The military doesn't want to re-inventory everything so they can put RFID on it; that would be counter-intuitive. Rather, have that process incorporated into the assembly line.

    2. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wasn't parent's point, the point was that it should be incorporated into the buying process as a free-market buying decision force rather than be socialistically mandated

    3. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      rather than be socialistically mandated
      I fail to see how this is an instance of cooperation by people to ensure a more equal, fair, society where everyone's needs are met.

      Oh wait, you're an American who doesn't know what "socialist" means aren't you?

    4. Re:Hmm... by ftzdomino · · Score: 1

      It is basically the same thing. Many of the DoD's purchases only have one supplier since the parts must conform to the published specifications (MIL-SPEC).

    5. Re:Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm an American living in SOCIALIST Belgium, and I'd love to see where my 30% higher taxes are going, because it's certainly not to any visable public service, that's for sure...

  11. Missile Defence.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great, now all we need to do to detect incoming missiles is to put a few giant shopping security beepers on our borders and the RFID's will alert us!

    1. Re:Missile Defence.. by praedor · · Score: 1

      Hey! You're on to something there... Warheads could use one set of RFIDs and decoys another. Anti-ballistic missile defense systems wouldn't have to figure out fancy-schmancy ways of telling decoy warheads from dummy warheads. An interceptor would merely need to get close enough to read the warhead's RFID and decide if it is live or memorex, and destroy the correct RFID setup appropriately.

      --
      In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  12. Exceptions the rule... by Dareth · · Score: 4, Funny

    except on bulk commodities such as sand, grit or liquids.

    Soldier: Hey these grits taste like sand!
    Cook: Don't yell at me, we aint got those fancy smancy RFID tags in all our stuff so we can tell our shirts from our underwear!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  13. And DoS attacks too by Morgaine · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The potential dangers go further than merely allowing "the enemy" (LOL) to check your inventory. It's pretty easy to forecast that denial of service attacks will be used against this system as well as mere snooping, and there's no way that it'll be hardened against them because RFID is marketed as a cheap and simple way of reducing your costs, which eliminates hardening entirely.

    By the way, there's no need for the sledgehammer aircraft-based transmitter approach. I would expect inventory snooping to be done by dropping small scanners into delivery trucks or air vents, or getting them positioned properly by the most powerful weapon, namely insider help, either voluntary or under duress.

    Even worse, this is not just an inventory issue. Once RFID tags are accepted, live hardware will employ them, and the potential problems then hit another dimension altogether.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:And DoS attacks too by DoraLives · · Score: 2, Insightful
      cheap and simple way of reducing your costs, which eliminates hardening entirely.

      When the DoD is done with this, it will no longer be cheap or simple, but it WILL be hard.

      --
      Is it fascism yet?
    2. Re:And DoS attacks too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Umm, downvote me stupid if you want, but what's a DoS on a RFID tag actualy /do/? All it does is keep you from reading the tag reliably, which isn't all that useful. Also, the point from which you're DoSing is easy to trace -- just follow the hot/cold signals of energizer signal strength.

      Much more worring is the possibilty of enemy troups scanning for RFID tags. Sure, there's range issues -- it would work both ways, and you get more warning on one end then the other, but it's still worrying.

      Of course, if the tags are only on packaging, or are nutered prior to going into dangerous teritoriy, it becomes less of a problem. It's still a problem, becuase you could probably fly over field bases and spot "hidden" supply depos.

      Of those don't happen so much in desert combat, I was thinking in more of a jungle combat mode (I've seen too many Nam movies.) OTOH, in urban combat...

    3. Re:And DoS attacks too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just drop box of active RFIDs near the interogator.
      If it is in scanning mode it will take some time. ;-)

      I just see enemy droping packs of copied RFIDs around.

    4. Re:And DoS attacks too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's a DoS on a RFID tag actualy /do/? All it does is keep you from reading the tag reliably, which isn't all that useful

      What impact having your RFID tags DoS'd would have on your operation is entirely dependent on how you use the technology. If it's integrated so strongly into your system that all stock transactions in and out would halt, then an effective DoS could have major impact.

      Also, the point from which you're DoSing is easy to trace -- just follow the hot/cold signals of energizer signal strength.

      An easily traceable DoS is not an effective DoS, so a real enemy wouldn't make such a dumb move. (One should never assume that one's enemy is dumb.) Far more likely than a single-point DoS transmitter is a distributed approach, with numerous silent transmitters first positioning in appropriate RF-transparent bits of physical infrastructure long before they are activated.

      Stopping an RFID DoS by blowing away your HQ would work, but the cure could be worse than the disease.

    5. Re:And DoS attacks too by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1
      Umm, downvote me stupid if you want, but what's a DoS on a RFID tag actualy /do/? All it does is keep you from reading the tag reliably, which isn't all that useful. Also, the point from which you're DoSing is easy to trace -- just follow the hot/cold signals of energizer signal strength.

      Remember that the inventory system, by this time, is going to be completely dependant on RFID tags. This allows attacks on 3 areas:

      1. Disable the RFID tags themselves (burn them out with a (localized) EMP pulse). At this point, the batallion's ability to track it's equipment has been trashed.
      2. Burn out the RFID readers (differently tuned EMP pulse). Similar problem, but batallion can always order replacements
      3. EMP the computer systems into oblivion... I'm gussing that much of it isn't going to be EMP hardened either. (can you EMP harden a P4?)
      Where there's a war, there's a way.
      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    6. Re:And DoS attacks too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait a minute. They've spent Million$ to Billion$ on TEMPEST technology to eliminate "compromising emanations" an enemy could intercept or home in on. Now every bloody item the soldiers carry will be shouting "Here I am! Shoot me!" They will need a highly reliable scheme to disable the tags, with no "escapes". Otherwise it will be like tracking an army by the smell of their cigarettes.

    7. Re:And DoS attacks too by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

      Holy crap, with out the RFIDs, how will the tell whats inside the boxes? Oh, maybe they'll just look...

      Sorry, but burning out the tag on a box of bullets doesn't mean the bullets won't shoot people just as dead. And whose to say they won't keep barcodes around as an option?

    8. Re:And DoS attacks too by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Look, if there's an EMP device that can be tuned that accurately (or can't, for that matter) being able to count MREs is going to be the last problem on the Army's list.

      Take out the comm links, or the GPS receivers, and our efficient, powerful armed forces turn into mobs.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  14. You can get your own RFID chips at www.buyrfid.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now chip yourself, your dog, the kids!

  15. What if RFID detection arms them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would you turn your RFID detector on in the knowledge that a mine might be silently armed by RFID detection, and then explode when you're close?

    1. Re:What if RFID detection arms them? by mlush · · Score: 1
      Would you turn your RFID detector on in the knowledge that a mine might be silently armed by RFID detection, and then explode when you're close?

      Erm my suggestion is to put the RFID detector in the mine, if it detects (any/a specific) RFID code, the mine goes bang

  16. Bulk items by DoraLives · · Score: 1

    I for one, am pleased to see that they don't want to go putting any of them little RFID tags in my grits. Please pass the biscuits and gravy.

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
  17. Yeah except by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RFID wouldn't be put on items that would be taken into the field. Those items, as the article stated, would be at least embeded at the "level of cases or pallets."

    1. Re:Yeah except by mlush · · Score: 1
      RFID wouldn't be put on items that would be taken into the field. Those items, as the article stated, would be at least embeded at the "level of cases or pallets."

      In some ways that is worse. An RFID detecting boobytrap/mine that specifically attacks the logistics chain. With a bit of intellegence work it could target specific equipment.... say fuel and explosives. No need to blow up the first truck that rolls over the mine, blow up the ammotruck thats third in line.

      Thinking about it a little more, an RIFD mine would be expensive and its natural mission would be to target high value items. You would not need many to cause distuption way out of proportion to the expenditure

    2. Re:Yeah except by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the tags are not always reprogrammed to show what is in them.

      This would have to be a multiple level breach, becaus you would have to know which ID was put on the interresting container.

      You would also have to reprogram the mines.

    3. Re:Yeah except by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1
      RFID wouldn't be put on items that would be taken into the field. Those items, as the article stated, would be at least embeded at the "level of cases or pallets."

      The way that it's written I'd say that they're expecting to have RFID tags on everything from boots to bombers.

      Things like bullets are where you'd have the tags on the boxes.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    4. Re:Yeah except by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1
      In some ways that is worse. An RFID detecting boobytrap/mine that specifically attacks the logistics chain. With a bit of intellegence work it could target specific equipment

      Um, just curious: exactly how is the mine going to know that ID #3141592345 is say, Cartridges, 50 cal and not Boots, size 10?

    5. Re:Yeah except by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Um, just curious: exactly how is the mine going to know that ID #3141592345 is say, Cartridges, 50 cal and not Boots, size 10?

      With a bit of intellegence work. (Where have I seen that before....)

      Nobody is saying it'll be easy to accomplish. But it would be possible to accomplish, and it's another avenue for the enemy to explore and posssibly exploit.

      The big question here is, is it wise to provide that avenue to potential enemies?

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    6. Re:Yeah except by mlush · · Score: 1
      Um, just curious: exactly how is the mine going to know that ID #3141592345 is say, Cartridges, 50 cal and not Boots, size 10?

      At the most basic level stick a RFID detector next to the road and read the numbers when an ammo lorry goes by, finding an ammo box and pointing an RFID detector at it, stealing an inventory list are other options. Once the numbers are know its going to be problematic (though not impossible) to change the numbers to a new permutation.

    7. Re:Yeah except by s.fontinalis · · Score: 1

      Nobody is saying it'll be easy to accomplish. But it would be possible to accomplish, and it's another avenue for the enemy to explore and posssibly exploit. The US is no longer fighting against a superpower with unlimited resources at it's disposal. We're fighting against the 3rd world now - countries that have very limited resources, who are much more likely to invest their limited supplies in areas such as Chem/Bio/Nuclear weapons, than supply chain warfare.

    8. Re:Yeah except by mlush · · Score: 1

      An RFID based attack makes for very good press, Turning the Great Satan Much Vaunted Technology against them etc etc you don't have to do it often just show it can be done and you get a perminant change in the US Forces SOP's

    9. Re:Yeah except by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 1

      OK. So let me see if I get this. Correct me if I go wrong. The enemy uses intelligence to understand that ID #3141592345 is a pallet of cartridges and then preprograms a particular mine to blow up if, and only if, it detects that ID. Is that what you're saying? OK, so now they know how to set the mine off, they have to somehow know that that globally unique ID must pass over that mine, which means that "they" know enough about our logistics chain to be able to predict what route specific shipments are taking so they know where to put specific mines, right?

      Doesn't it occur to you that any enemy having such intimate knowledge of US supply chain operations could find much, much easier ways of destroying shipments and personnel than laying a mine and hoping that it detonates without failure at some point in the future?

  18. WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have no doubt the gov does not care about passed-along expenses, expecially because in theory most RFIDs are less than 4 cents each in cost, and getting cheaper.

    But worse RFIDs are in cars and readable from over twenty feet away:

    TOP SECRET FACT:Most modern cars have tracking transponders!

    Spy transmission chips embedded in tires that can be read REMOTELY while driving.

    A secret initiative exists to track all funnel-points on interstates and US borders for car tire ID transponders (RFid chips embedded in the tire).

    Yup. My brother works on them.

    Your tires have a passive coil with 64 to 128 bit serial number emitter in them! (AIAG B-11 ADC v3.0) . A particular frequency energizes it enough so that a receiver can read its little ROM. A ROM which in essence is your GUID for your TIRE. Multiple tires do not confuse the readers. Its almost identical to all "FastPass" "SpeedPass" technologies you see on gasoline keychain dongles and commuter windshield sticker-chips. The US gov has secretly started using these chips to track people.

    Its kind of like FBI "Taggants" in fertilizer and "Taggants" in Gasoline and Bullets, and Blackpowder. But these car tire transponder Ids are meant to actively track and trace movement of your car. FYI : Technical data on common explosives chemical fingerprint "taggants" from Princeton federal reports : http://www.wws.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/byteserv.prl/ ~ota/disk3/1980/8017/801705.PDF (slashcode sometimes inserts spaces into urls)

    I am not making this up. Melt down a high end Firestone, or Bridgestone tire and go through the bits near the rim (sometimes at base of tread) and you will locate the transmitter (similar to 'grain of rice' pet ids and Mobile SpeedPass, but not as high tech as the tollbooth based units). Sokymat LOGI 160, and Sokymat LOGI 120 transponder buttons are just SOME of the transponders found in modern high end car tires. The AIAG B-11 Tire tracking standard is now implemented for all 3rd party transponder manufactures [covered below].

    It is for QA and to prevent fraud and "car theft", but the US Customs service uses it in Canada to detect people who swap license plates on cars when doing a transport of contraband on a mule vehicle that normally has not logged enough hours across the border. The customs service and FBI do not yet talk about this, and are starting using it soon.

    Photos of chips before molded into tires:

    http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:TAQIKjBI01g C: www.sokymat.com/sp/applications/tireid.html

    (slashdot ruins links, so you will have to remove the ASCII space it insertess usually into the url above to get to the shocking info and photos on the enbedded LOGI 160 chips that the us gov scans when you cross mexican and canadian borders.)

    You never heard of it either because nobody moderates on slashdot anymore and this is probably +0 still. It has also never appeared in print before and is very secret.

    Californias Fastpass is being upgraded to scan ALL responding car tires in future years upcoming. I-75 may get them next in rural funnel points in Ohio.

    http://www.tadiran-telematics.com/products6.html

    but the fact is... YOU PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE A RADIO TRANSPONDER not counting your digital cell phone which is routinely silently pulsed in CA bay area each rush hour morning unless turned off (consult Wired Magazine Expose article). Those data point pulses are used by NSA on occasions.

    The us FBI with NRO/NSA blessings, has requested us gov make this tire scanning information as secret as the information regarding all us inkjet printers sold in usa in the last 3 years using "yellow" GUID barcode under dark ink regions to serialize printouts to thwart counterfeiting of 20 dollar bills. (30 to 40 percent of ALL California counterfeiting is done using cheap Epson inkjet printers, most purchased with credit cards foolishly). Luckily court dockets divulge the existence of the E

    1. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any serious conspiricy theorist knows that
      this system can be thwarted simply by having
      the driver wear a tin foil hat.

    2. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I heard you this time, and I shall watch to see what happens to this thread with great interest.

    3. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But worse RFIDs are in cars and readable from over twenty feet away

      So is your license plate! OH NO!

    4. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Wow, someone needs to up their meds a bit.

    5. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by whorfin · · Score: 2, Funny

      We would have succeeded in our nefarious plans if it wasn't for you meddling kids! Now that this idiot has revealed our secret plans to oppress the world by spying on your tires and cell phones, we will have to go back to the drawing board.

      Perhaps we will finally perfect the underwear cameras this time, but I hope that we get the microchip in nasal spray working, personally. That way we can directly embed the chip in your brains.

      --
      Laugh while you can, monkey-boy!
    6. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the info.

    7. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by VoodoochildBC · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely insane. Do one of the following: Check into a mental hospital or jump off a bridge.

    8. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RFIDs have been covertly used and sold by TI for over ten years are in many many products... and now your tires are being read by the us gov as you drive at speeds of up to 100 Mph on primary US interstate corridors. (Actually 160 km/h).

      Bah. Coworkers complain when I blow by them on I-95 or I-195 sometimes as quick as 140mph (low-traffic). I'm not irresponsible... I'm protecting my privacy!

    9. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I think this could be a great way to crack down on people who don't rotate tires, or are habitually under-inflated. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    10. Re:WARNING! US Gov already mandates RFIDs in CARS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I could moderate this as schitzophrenic.

      Guy, I believe that we've got some serious problems from RFID technology too, but posting like this just gives the whole opposition a very bad name.

  19. It's 2100 hours... by togtog · · Score: 1

    do you know where your rations are?

    -tog

  20. Good technology, but intelligent use is needed. by Morgaine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just because products can be inventoried rapidly with RFID or barcodes doesn't necessarily mean that inventory control improves. There needs to be someone with a brain cell in the loop somewhere too.

    As a mildly funny example, I'm pretty tired of the wholemeal pitta bread running out every day several hours before the white variety in our local supermarket. It's been happening for years, despite the perpetual roving hoards of clerks running up and down the isles with their little scanning machines. You'd think that better stock control would be used to help increase sales by ordering optimal amounts.

    I bet you've all seen your own versions of this lack of a guiding intelligence in places, despite deployment of the latest technologies.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:Good technology, but intelligent use is needed. by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      As a mildly funny example, I'm pretty tired of the wholemeal pitta bread running out every day several hours before the white variety in our local supermarket. It's been happening for years, despite the perpetual roving hoards of clerks running up and down the isles with their little scanning machines. You'd think that better stock control would be used to help increase sales by ordering optimal amounts. I bet you've all seen your own versions of this lack of a guiding intelligence in places, despite deployment of the latest technologies.

      All I want is frozen concentrated fruit punch. There's three bins FULL of FC orange juice that nobody likes, but the single bin of fruit punch disappears as soon as they put it out. I've watched it happen. Complaints to management do nothing. They still only order 24 cans of FC fruit punch a week. If I'm lucky, I can get there within hours of the randomly selected time for restocking the bin-- which means fruit punch every couple months, if I'm lucky. Exterminate the brutes!

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  21. Smart Anti-personnel Mines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Well, you could have smart mines that only explode when combatants of the appropiate side were in proximity. No collateral damage (milspeak for no innocent civilian casulties). We wish.


    Of course when the military brass catches on that these could be programmed to trigger off of the rfids on commissioned officers insignia bought at the PX (smart fragging) this whole rfid idea will be history.

  22. morons draft planet/population rescue policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can any of you feel a draft? that would be the winds of change, bullowing at gale force.

    you won't be needing any corepirate nazi 'monitoring' gadgets, as the lights come up.

    all in all, y'all are doing a remarkable job of participation in the planet/population rescue effort. there's still much/more to be done.

    as you can maybe already see, yOUR survival/success is not the least bit dependent on the gadgets/mindphucking devices of the greed/fear based corepirate nazis, & their phonIE ?pr? ?firm? buyassed /.puppets, & refudlicking capitollist hill cronIEs.

    consult with/trust in yOUR creator. more breathing. vote with yOUR wallet (somtimes that means not buying anything, a notion previously unmentioned buy the greed/fear/war mongers). seek others of non-aggressive/positive behaviours/intentions. stop wasting anything/being frivolous. that's the spirit.

    investigate the newclear power plan. J. Public et AL has yet to become involved in open/honest 'net communications/commerce in a meaningful way. that's mostly due to the MiSinformation suppLIEd buy phonIE ?pr? ?firm?/stock markup FraUD execrable, etc...

    truth is, there's no better/more affordable/effective way that we know of, for J. to reach other J.'s &/or their respective markets.

    the overbullowned greed/fear based phonIE marketeers are self eliminating by their owned greed/fear/ego based evile MiSintentions. they must deny the existence of the newclear power that is dissolving their ability to continue their self-centered evile behaviours.

    as the lights continue to come up, you'll see what we mean. meanwhile, there are plenty of challenges, not the least of which is the planet/population rescue (from the corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent) initiative.

    EVERYTHING is going to change, despite the lameNT of the evile wons. you can bet your .asp on that. when the lights come up, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

    we weren't planted here to facilitate/perpetuate the excesses of a handful of Godless felons. you already know that? yOUR ONLY purpose here is to help one another. any other pretense is totally false.

    pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example). that's quite affordable, & leads to insights on preserving life as it should/could/will be again. everything's ALL about yOUR motives.

    take care, we're here for you.

    as for va lairIE/robbIE et AL, & their disgusting need to suck up to their corepirate nazi sponsors buy use of manipulation/censorship (see also: the inphalmouse pateNTdead PostBlock(tm) devise) they are their owned reward eye gas.

  23. Face it-Benifits. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course. Doing inventory is one of the most labour intensive processes a business has (some would have to shut down). The bigger the organization, the worse the problem. Regular barcodes help, but still have issues. These will improve accuracy, reduce the labour required (personnel and time). What organization (especially government) wouldn't want that? Especially in these times.

    1. Re:Face it-Benifits. by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      What organization wouldn't want that?

      The paranoid people of Slashdot who think that everybody is out to get them?

      -- Dr. Eldarion --

    2. Re:Face it-Benifits. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are out to get me...

      puts on tinfoil hat

    3. Re:Face it-Benifits. by commodoresloat · · Score: 1
      These will improve accuracy

      Will they? As someone only half-facetiously pointed out above, switching the tags could easily go unnoticed. Especially when you scan, say, a truckload of grenades or something. Once some unscrupulous person figures out how to lift the tags what's to stop them from passing off a truck filled with 1000 grenades as a truck full of 1200?

    4. Re:Face it-Benifits. by s.fontinalis · · Score: 1

      As someone only half-facetiously pointed out above, switching the tags could easily go unnoticed.

      It's quite easy to attach a tag to a box in a manner that make's it's removal painfully obvious. A good example is the Shockwatch monitors (a small vial filled with sand) on the side of high dollar equipment shipping containers - they're attached with an adhesive that's almost impossible to remove without damaging the box. RFID tags could be similarly attached.

  24. Hot chips and radio interference by JThaddeus · · Score: 1

    I can just see it now--some Intel-made chip somewhere starts to overheat or interfer with some other chip somewhere deep in a ammunition storage bunker. BOOM! Let's see Bush try to blame that on Al Qaeda!

    --
    "Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
    1. Re:Hot chips and radio interference by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because an RFID chip without its own power supply has SO much in common with an overheating P4. Right.

      What was your point again?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  25. draft coming up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to be won of the first 'chosen' (buy force/farce), you should have a target symbull emblazoned on your personage.

  26. But to see RFID, the mine must emit a signal... by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The mine or boobytrap would have to emit RF energy to see the RFID. It would be easy to detect that signal, giving away the fact that the mine or boobytrap was in the area.

    It's simple physics. RFID signal must go both ways - from the mine to the RFID tag and back. The emissions from the boobytrap to a boobytrap detector are one way. You can detect the boobytrap before it can detect you. This is a well-known fact for counterdetection. E.g., you can detect a radar signal well-before the radar can see you.

    1. Re:But to see RFID, the mine must emit a signal... by pvt_medic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You could have the RF activate once the mine is activated, and use that as a Friendly Fire protection device.

      Mine is activated

      Radar activated

      Detects presence of authorized RFID

      Mine Disarms

      --
      30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
      Score:5, Troll
    2. Re:But to see RFID, the mine must emit a signal... by redhog · · Score: 1

      But does the boobytrap need to send the signal itself? I'm not sure about how exactly these RFIDs works, but do you need to _be_ the sende to compare the sent signal with the reflected one in order to determine the RFIDs ID (or just existence, ffor this purpose), or do you just have to listen to the reflected signal? If so, you will be able to tell there _is_ boobytrap, somewhere "near", when you see the signal, but not exactly where. And if you pass between the sender and the trap, kazap.

      --
      --The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
    3. Re:But to see RFID, the mine must emit a signal... by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1
      Forget the mine.... (Besides, there are few countries outside of the US that have banned mines). To be legal, rather than blowing up, the mine can simply report back to headquarters that:
      US Seal Team 7 is attempting to infiltrate sector 4
      At that point, an automatic mortar unit could just blanket the area.
      When the war was over, the RFID 'mine' would be reporting back to a non-existent control center. This means that the next kid that tripped it wouldn't get turned into mixed body parts.
      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    4. Re:But to see RFID, the mine must emit a signal... by cryms0n · · Score: 0

      You, sir, are a genious.

      We need to get you into a weaponslab, stat!

  27. Security! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this mean that if the army marches through Walmart,
    they will all beep like hell on the way out?

    Scifiber Phil

  28. The Register covered this the other day by arubis · · Score: 1

    on this page.
    I find that they tend to have an interesting take on things.

  29. Sand, Grit, and Liquids by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    ... new policy of requiring all suppliers to use RFID chips in all goods supplied to the military by 2005, except on bulk commodities such as sand, grit or liquids.

    Of course, with IPv6, there's enough IP addresses for all those particles of sand and grit. Not sure about the liquids, though ... :)

    -kgj

    --
    -kgj
  30. This post will self-destruct in 5 seconds. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You never heard of it either because nobody moderates on slashdot anymore and this is probably +0 still. It has also never appeared in print before and is very secret."

    In other words, I'm the only one who knows, and the FBI is after me. That's why I'm posting from a phone booth.

    "The us FBI with NRO/NSA blessings, has requested us gov make this tire scanning information as secret as the information regarding all us inkjet printers sold in usa in the last 3 years using "yellow" GUID barcode under dark ink regions to serialize printouts to thwart counterfeiting of 20 dollar bills. (30 to 40 percent of ALL California counterfeiting is done using cheap Epson inkjet printers, most purchased with credit cards foolishly)."

    Have you ever actually tried printing money with an inkjet? You'd have to be blind to be fooled.

    "Alternatively you could illegally build jamming devices at : 13.56 MHz, + 1,356 MHz +- many freqs (TI-RFid) and a few others. If microwave is ever employed you might not be able to effectively jam but your brain would possibly cook over time, as it now known as of this year that the three harmonic resonances of water are not the only chemical actions harming human tissue at gigaherz frequencies. Jammers would be illegal and violators easy to locate. Tire removal is the only option."

    Or you could burn out the chip, at your leisure. Why make things difficult?

    "RFIDs have been covertly used and sold by TI for over ten years are in many many products... and now your tires are being read by the us gov as you drive at speeds of up to 100 Mph on primary US interstate corridors. (Actually 160 km/h)."

    Go grab a map. See how many "primary" interstate corridors there are. Your conspiracy theory fails the "logistics" test.

    "
    Anyway, regarding tire radio transmitters: the sokymat LOGI 160, and sokymat LOGI 120) are just SOME of the transponders found in modern tires. The earliest tire radio spy chips had only 64 bit serial numbers but they have rapidly evolved post Sept 11 bombings: LOGI 160 LOGI 120 has 224 bit R/W memory (sokymat.ch) to be marked using external hand help injectors with "salt" info when the fbi tags your parked car using RFID programmer.

    Basically the FBI "marks your car" without touching it physically, thus eliminating a "warrant" to put a locater on your vehicle."

    Hand held what, doing what? So much for "touching it".

    "Just as the FBI can listen to you while you are at home by LEGALLY bouncing an infrared beam off your vibrating window pane and modulating the signal, the US Gov can LEGALLY inject (program) a saltable read-write sokymat LOGI eeprom tire chip (and other brands of tire transponders)"

    Not without a warrent they can't. Besides do you know how much such equipment costs, and it's "failure" modes.

    "Using these chips to track people while they drive is actually the idea of the us gov, and current chips CANNOT BE DISABLED or removed. They hope ALL tires will have these chips in 5 years and hope people have a very hard time finding non-chipped tires. Removing the chips is near impossible without destroying the tire as the chips were designed with that DARPA design goal."

    Anything with an "antenna" can be disabled. Think about it for a second.

    "All the tires stored in the federal logging computers at the current and future interstate highway chokepoints can be (with some effort) tied to particular peoples vehicles, but typically they are used forensically, (ie. After a vehicle is found, its history of travel is used as evidence against it, installing at factories, and people using credit cards to buy new tires makes a few more strategies easy for the feds)."

    Note how a majority of these conspiracy theories require an enemy of near infinate capacities. Those of us who've working in the government know better.

  31. Please tell me... by mhotas · · Score: 4, Funny

    that my tax dollars are not being used to ship sand around the world. Especially to Iraq.

    1. Re:Please tell me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no kidding... wouldn't surprise me though - it has to be "mil-spec" sand you know!

    2. Re:Please tell me... by panurge · · Score: 1

      I think P J O'Rourke commented on this - the sand in Arabia is not the right sort to make sandbags. But then where did you think the sand came from for sandbags in WW2 in Europe? You can't guarantee that your line of fortification will conveniently end in a sandpit.

      --
      Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
    3. Re:Please tell me... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Informative
      Please tell me that my tax dollars are not being used to ship sand around the world. Especially to Iraq.

      Dunno about Iraq, but the sandbags we had in Saudi/Kuwait had to be filled with imported sand. Much of the "sand" in the middle east is more like fine dust. It's nasty. It gets everywhere. It leaks right out through the mesh of MilSpec sandbags like water through a sieve. We had truckloads of sand coming in from Who Knows Where when I was there in '91.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  32. Yeah except-Counter-counter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might want to think deeper than that. Think counter-counter. RFID tags don't have to respond to just any old signal, and their response doesn't have to be any old signal (it could even be chemical).

    RFID tags aren't some kind of super weapon, and can be defeated easily (see conspiracy post below). That applies for both sides in a war.

  33. Wery convenient for the adversary as well! by tychoS · · Score: 0, Redundant

    So the next time the US is invading a country, the country to be invaded can get an accurate assesment of what the US military literaly "has in store for it" by flying a reconnaissance airplane over each US military cargo ship and past each US cargo plane to collect a complete and accutary inventory list of the cargo onboard the ship or airplane!

    Very convenient ;-)

    1. Re:Wery convenient for the adversary as well! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, if they could get a plane that close they could just bomb it. The thing is they won't get anything that close without having a good chance (99.99) that it will be destroyed. This is the US forces you are talking about here (blast everything, see what it was later).

    2. Re:Wery convenient for the adversary as well! by Quila · · Score: 1

      One word: range

  34. Tin Foil hat wearing down ? by Animaether · · Score: 1

    Quit buying the cheap tin foil at discount warehouses and once, just once, buy the good stuff at a quality store which ubdoubtedly tracks you with cameras, keeps track of your shopping cart, wants to sell you frequent buyer cards and so forth and so on... ...because I think you current tin foil hat is of inferior quality.

    What on Earth are you on with your 'top secret' blabber ?
    This topic has been passed by on Slashdot time and again :
    http://slashdot.org/search.pl?query=tyre%20tags

    And is getting about as old as the story of the McDonald's customer spilling too hot coffee over herself.

    Secret my ass.

    Now, the rest of your post, though, is just deliberate paranoia - the FBI mods you, an anon coward with fits of delusion, down ?
    I think it's just people tired of your whining doing so.

    If you want us reading your previous posts, *gasp*, point to them - better yet, just post under a username. If you think they can then easily snoop on you - guess what ? They already could regardless of your state of posting.

    You're not as anonymous as you think you are.

    And you're probably not as paranoid as you want us to believe you are, either.

    1. Re:Tin Foil hat wearing down ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true Fed shill! Don't buy the propaganda or you'll end up tied up next to Mulder's sister! ..not a bad idea.

  35. Now combine three effects of bureaucracy... by panurge · · Score: 1
    1. It's guaranteed that at some point the wrong tags will be delivered to the manufacturer
    2. Bureaucrats are incapable of believing that the system can ever fail
    3. Lower echelons do what they are told without thinking.
    When the mines get labeled as missiles, the mechanics will just have to try and make them fit under the wings or get charged with insubordination. I don't care what it looks like, soldier, the tag says it's a missile.....
    --
    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
    1. Re:Now combine three effects of bureaucracy... by Quila · · Score: 1

      Okay, we've established that you've never been in the military.

    2. Re:Now combine three effects of bureaucracy... by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      When the mines get labeled as missiles, the mechanics will just have to try and make them fit under the wings or get charged with insubordination. I don't care what it looks like, soldier, the tag says it's a missile.....

      There is a reason that we train our troops, y'know.

      At the end-chain for any critical supply, such as mines, missles, or specific bullets, there will probably be a manual confirmation--probably at a few points along the supply chain, too.

      Remember: the military has been messing up their mammoth supply chains for decades now. I'm sure that they have the intstitutional wherewithal to make-to, slowly improve the system, and realize that cheap civilian-made computers can and do mess up.

  36. 'Breaking' this technology isn't exactly hard by Persol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So you go to Canada, buy new tires, and are no longer seen as the same car.

    It's not much of a secret government plot if
    1) Everyone knows that it's possible
    2) It can be foiled by changing your tires

  37. Hey, wait!!! by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1

    s/grit/grits/

  38. Why focus on such small items? by Phishfry · · Score: 1

    I think that the US Military needs to concentrate on identifying planes and tanks. Our friendly fire rate is terrible for as long as IFF has been out. Friendly Fire Insight http://www.msnbc.com/news/889594.asp?cp1=1 IFF Insight http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/air craft/systems/iff.htm

    1. Re:Why focus on such small items? by Quila · · Score: 2

      They've already done more than you believe in this area. We have very good ways of identifying friendly tanks. I should know since I just finished working for a tank division.

    2. Re:Why focus on such small items? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pah! How dare you question me? I work in IT! I read the news! I am a SYSADMIN mother fucker? Do you understand what that means? I am God of my system! My bits tremble at my presence, and I like it that way. What I say goes, and if I don't know something about something else, then it isn't worth knowing about, mmmkay! I bet you didn't appreciate the SYSADMIN of your tank division, and he probably *forgot* one day to install the latest kernel patch, thus causing a friendly fire incident. This is /. buddy, where SYSADMINs rule, and lusers drool.

      Bitch.

  39. careful with the biscuits by fantomas · · Score: 1

    They didn't mention biscuits as being excluded. Chew carefully on any "chocolate chips" or "hazelnuts".

  40. Your sig... by Confessed+Geek · · Score: 1


    "I only look human.
    My mother is a hafling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling"

    THAT had to hurt!

  41. The Army supply line by Quila · · Score: 1

    Anyone here who's experienced the Army supply line can tell you this could be very useful. Right now most things are barcoded, but that still takes time. The Army needs fast, efficient inventory control as much as Wal-Mart does.

  42. It's a real solution for a real problem by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The US military has been using a barcode inventory system for years. This is just an upgrade.

    It helps solve a real problem. It's not at all uncommon for deployed units to have to unpack shipping containers just to find out what's inside. Huge hassle for everybody.

    There's a constant struggle between the shipping people, who want to fill up every container, and the field logistics people, who want containers to be "single-consignee", so they go opened to the receiving unit. In the civilian world, containers are delivered to warehouses where "bulk-break" and sorting take place. (Visit any major UPS or FedEx location to see such a place.) The military has to do that under field conditions.

  43. that sucks by BoneFlower · · Score: 1

    There goes making a deal with the supply sergeant after losing some gear.

  44. Infringing the Soldiers' Privacy! by Mortanius · · Score: 2, Funny

    But think of what we're doing to the soldiers' privacy! Sure, now it's just RFID tags on the crates, but next it'll be RFID tags on every M-16, Stinger missile launcher, and grenade! The government will be able to track each individual soldier and know what they're doing with these weapons! They might even sell this information to third-party arms manufacturers for 'marketing research!'

  45. you are WRONG!!! I alone broke the store 18 months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are WRONG!!! I alone broke the store 18 months ago.

    You will not find one post stating it.

    The data came FROM me and my posts. The body said "top secret" fact 18 months ago or so. I did not bother changing the body of this post. This post is similar to the way I posted it over 18 months ago.

    No one came before I with these facts.

    Your memory of people discussing it are from only a few months back. I was the first, and the primary source.

    It is still semi-secret and it is newsworthy. Furthermore fed shills using pre-fab accounts do mod it down soon after it is posted making it difficult for others to spot. Its how the fed gov "contains" these things I suspect.

    "fits of delusion?" Spot one factual error in my post. There are none. And if you knew how to read and search on internet you can find a lot of information on every topic I cover.

    How can I post under a username... i do not believe in them and have never used one on this website. email accts on yahoo.com and hotmail.com are "anonymous" making all anonymous cowards. In fact YOU are an anonymous coward because the way i am using slashdot it says "(email not shown publicly) " for http://slashdot.org/~Animaether/ (your info).

    So therefore you are just as much an anonymous coward as I... actually more so because you slander fectladen posts without actually evidently learning from them or followingup with anything relevant except slams about the poor women who lost massive amounts of tissue from hot mcdonalds coffee (medical complications).

    your link was near useless by the way. you wrote : "This topic has been passed by on Slashdot time and again :
    http://slashdot.org/search.pl?query=tyre%20tags " ... using it as you typed it i find only one article related to the specific vehicle tracking topic I am discussing.

  46. One bright spot... by K8Fan · · Score: 1

    ...it sre will make it easy to local land mines!

    --
    "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    1. Re:One bright spot... by K8Fan · · Score: 1

      Er...that was supposed to be "locate". Brevity may be the soul of wit, but it hasn't done much for my spelling.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
  47. MODDED from +4 to 2 rather quickly... soon +0? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2 pm eastern... fed shills slammed it with 3 "overrateds" soon it will reach 0 as the last time (AND FIRST TIME) it was posted.

    Why? Simple... becuase the feds want this information suppressed.

    You say "I shall watch to see what happens to this thread with great interest. "

    Well then watch away... watch the stupid comments criticizing it on non-factual points, and watch the article go from a +4 to a 0,1,or -1 as it always has in the past.

    the more votes it gets to raise it, the more ammo the fed shill accounts are used to bring it down again.

    I wonder how many other anon posts I never get to easily spot on slashdot because ot this method of suppression.

    This post is CERTAINLY worth more than the vast majorty of forty five "+2" messages in this thread of only 104 messages.

    50% of all the messages in here aat 2 pm E.S.T. are +2 rated but my massive fact laden valuable post will soon be +1 and then probably "0".

    Amusing. such a funny little coincidence, eh?

  48. yess~ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i hate doing quarterly inventory layouts~!

  49. Michelin man sold me lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Note how a majority of these conspiracy theories require an enemy of near infinate capacities. Those of us who've working in the government know better.

    Aha, but do you work in the shadow government? I didn't think so, fancy pants!

  50. Re:The Army supply line ... already doing it by HighOrbit · · Score: 3, Informative

    I used to work as a military logistician, and we were doing this all the way back in 1995 during the Haiti intervention and the refugee crisis at Guantanemo Bay.

    The Army recongnized the need for RFID all the back in 1990-1991 in Desert Sheild/Desert Storm. Back then they were sitting on thousands of 20 foot and 40 foot shipping containers in Saudi Arabia. But the paperwork was so bad that they couldn't tell what was inside the containers and the database system they used to keep track of shipments was a 1973 vintage punch card system (no really.. it was). So they spent thousands of man-hours opening the boxes and recording the contents and figuring out where it was supposed to go. The actually had a man killed when all the crap fell out on top of him while he was opening up one of the boxes. Meanwhile, forward deployed units were languishing without supplies or spare parts. So they knew they had a problem. The answer was to improve the tracking paperwork with an oracle based system called WPS (WorldWide Port System) and they started doing experimental use of RFID on vehicles and shipping containers. The RFID transmitters were based on the ones used by the railroads and were about the size of a book (approx 8x6x3 in). The were bolted onto the exteriors of the shipping containers and short range transmission towers were built in the ports and at transportation hubs. The first chance to test them in the real-world was the Haiti crisis. All the supplies to GITMO and Haiti were flowing through the port at Jacksonville Florida. The tests were a moderate success (sometimes the tags fell off or data was bogus because somebody was too lazy to key the right values). Overall, the military was very pleased because it finally afford military commanders "Intransit Visibility" or ITV. Commanders were very happy to know where their supplies and equipment was. During the last several years, the tag technology has gotten better and better and they started installing them in vehicles whenever they were deploying.

  51. MOD PARENT UP by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    And then make the parent poster buy me a new keyboard. Mine is covered in coffee.

  52. Thanks Accenture... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    For streamlining the profit generation process at expense of individual privacy.

    Thanks, Accenture, for opening the gates to RFIDing of human beings.

  53. Face it-Tiny chips set to change an industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "These high-tech barcodes are becoming commonplace if you like it or not."

    Yes they are.

    "Retailers envision a warehouse where they can figure out the contents of entire pallets of goods without having to scan scores of individual bar codes.

    Eventually, they see stores where a customer with a cartload of merchandise could leave the checkout line after one wave of a wireless device. In the aisles, "smart shelves" would recognize when an item is removed and needs restocking or has reached its expiration date.

    The technology to make this possible has been around for decades, tracking big-ticket items such as railroad freight and automobiles (think LoJack car security systems).

    But the extension of radio frequency identification -- RFID in industry-speak -- to widespread use promises to be one of the most revolutionary developments for retailers since the bar code was introduced in the 1970s.
    Vial of microchips

    Now Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's most influential retailer, is planning to begin pushing RFID into the mainstream, starting with its biggest suppliers in just more than a year. And where Wal-Mart leads, the retail industry generally follows.

    "It's certainly considered the new tool to help trace product through the [distribution] system," said Jean Kinsey, co-director of the Food Industry Center at the University of Minnesota.

    The advent of RFID not only is expected to change the way retailers do business but ripple through to their suppliers, the labor force and checkout aisle: Union leaders already worry that RFID could become a job-cutting tool, and privacy advocates fear that consumers one day could have their purchases constantly tracked.

    There are plenty of bugs to be worked out before RFID comes to market, including the creation of a standardized identification format similar to the Universal Product Code (UPC) that is used with printed bar codes. A system known as EPC, or Electronic Product Code, is being developed by an industry consortium.

    In addition, RFID tags -- which require a microchip to store data and a tiny antenna to transmit the information -- are still too expensive for widespread use.

    Nonetheless, the nation's major chains and consumer-product manufacturers are exploring ways to put the technology to work.

    'Quantum leaps'

    Wal-Mart has been the most vocal about its plans. The giant discounter recently told its 100 largest suppliers to place RFID tags on pallets and cases shipped to Wal-Mart by January 2005. All other Wal-Mart vendors would need to follow suit in 2006.

    Wal-Mart might reveal more details of its RFID strategy at a meeting with suppliers next week at its headquarters in Bentonville, Ark.

    The world's biggest retailer already maintains state-of-the-art inventory tracking systems, but it expects this technology to take it to a new level.

    "We'll be making some quantum leaps in efficiency," Wal-Mart spokesman Tom Williams said.

    According to a report issued by consulting firm Accenture earlier this year, RFID could help retailers increase sales by as much as 3 percent because of improved store stocking. The report, which had input from technology firms and from Target Corp. and Best Buy Co. Inc., among other chains, also concluded that inventory write-offs because of spoiled and obsolete items could be reduced by as much as 20 percent.

    In terms of labor costs, RFID could reduce in-store receiving workforce expenses by as much as 65 percent and stocking expenses by as much as 25 percent, Accenture said.

    Those advances will come at a price -- for suppliers as well as the retailers. According to AMR Research Inc. in Boston, it will cost about $20 million a year for a typical supplier to comply with Wal-Mart's RFID plans. Combined, the major consumer-goods manufacturers could spend $2 billion to implement RFID, some observers estimate. And Wal-Mart is known for not letting

  54. Re:Prediction... AND: by RoboProg · · Score: 1

    My first thought was I would hate to have one of the things on me still while I was on the front lines. While there are probably easier ways to detect a soldier, it's yet another thing you have to worry about masking if you wish to remain stealthy.

    I very much hope they have powerful directed scanners to make sure this electronic trash is stripped off before sending anybody out in harm's way, or where an ECM like the what you or others suggested is used against them.

    --
    Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
  55. Never ending counter measures by RoboProg · · Score: 1

    Almost. Keep in mind that the device supplying the power need not be the device reading the tag. A small drone plane could send out some fairly strong pulses to power up the RFID chips, while a previously layed down network of readers could detect whatever was tagged (probable identifying criteria: kill anything stupid enough to be tagged).

    --
    Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
  56. Faulty presentation can obscure factual content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The apparent facts in your post are very interesting. I try not to forget things like this once I read them; only by putting together related facts can we make a rational judgment about the truth.

    However...

    The general attitude with which you present this information easily dominates the readers' perception of you *and* the information itself. Much of the post is somewhat incoherent, jumping between topics (related topics, but different nonetheless) and occasionally repeating facts. This creates an image of frantic paranoia.

    While I believe that you do need to calm down in order to convince others that you speak the truth, I can (on a smaller scale) relate to your situation:

    Practically everyone here on Slashdot would agree that legislation like the Patriot Act and programs like TIA are at least very Big-Brother-ish or even blatantly evil. However, when I speak of such things to more 'ordinary' people, I am met with, at best, mild surprise but overall disinterest. The general attitude is "oh, well, that's bad, but what can we do about it?" These are people who only watch the news to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger make jokes about Hummers during the recall debates. In light of these responses, I have stopped discussing such topics except when others bring them up -- and even then, I have to be sure that I don't get worked up about it. Getting too excited makes people stop taking me seriously.

    Similarly, I think you need to consider your audience and realize that you are hurting your case until you tone down the language and make an effort to appear more coherent. I would suggest that you not use caps-lock, exclamation points, or cliche phrases like "top secret."

    Furthermore, there are statements in your post which are not necessarily fact, although you present them as such. For example, your claim that government agents mod down your posts seems completely unprovable to me. While I cannot say that it is false, it seems to be only your suspicion, not fact. In my opinion, such a statement constitutes excessive paranoia, unlike your healthy concern over the possibility of mandatory tags in all tires in the country.

    [Note that healthy concern becomes unhealthy when it dominates your life... unless you are a true resistance fighter, and in that case you would have to be living under something more akin to the Nazi government to justify calling yourself that. I do not claim that the Anglo-American governments will never reach that state, but currently it is not *nearly* that bad, as far as I can tell.]

    Thus, your claim of government Slashdot accounts, your suggestion to use google cache or proxies, and your suggestions for removing tag tires seem excessive and unnecessary to me. I (and most readers of Slashdot) have no reason to fear the government's knowledge of our web surfing or driving habits. Those who do have a reason to fear it are hopefully intelligent enough to determine these methods on their own (and I should remind the critics reading this that criminals are not the only ones who need to fear the government).

    Lastly, the tendency of your posts to be modded down is most likely due to the problems I have listed here, not government agents.

    I hope my post itself is not incoherent, but thankfully, I have run out of things to say....

  57. Now get the CIA to do this! by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

    lets add spycams and bugs to the list too! The politicians are just dumb enough to slip this thru!

  58. big deal by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    You're stealing the ones you tear the tags off of; the only one who will notice them missing is you (or whoever you sell them to). You can put them in a duffle bag and throw them in with the truck full of grenades; it will look like 1200 grenades and it's only 1000. You then take your 200 "surplus" grenades to your friendly neighborhood illegal arms smuggler, and profit!

  59. We're on to you, CIA spook! by roystgnr · · Score: 1

    Why else would you be burying your information in such paranoid rants, if not to promote the stereotype of privacy advocates as delusional conspiracy theorists? Why else would you be accusing everyone else of being a government shill, if not to throw us off your own scent? The Feds may or may not be able to afford an army of secret Slashdot Operatives who maintain moderator status and vigilantly wait to pounce on any attempts to reveal their tire monitoring schemes, but they can certainly afford to pay one or two of you "anonymous cowards" to pop in here from time to time, planting misinformation for the rest of us.

  60. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone who attended the policy meeting, this actually was discussed and commented on. The general consensus is to focus on passive tags due to those cost factors. For items which are extremely cheap, the next-higher packaging will probably be what is tagged.

    Yes, it is know (I would even go as far to say "feared") that it is wasteful to put a $20 tag on a $5 resource. Have a little more faith than that ;-)

  61. I sent this in by core_dump_0 · · Score: 1

    I sent this in to Slashdot a while ago (the article was first on Computerworld) and it wasn't accepted.