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Mozilla Firebird 0.7.1 Released For Mac OS X
An anonymous reader writes "MozillaZine is reporting that Mozilla Firebird 0.7.1 has been released for Mac OS X only. The release - coming just over a week since the last one - fixes a number of bugs that made 0.7 frankly unusable on Macs. There's more info in the release notes. All MacBeards should upgrade immediately."
Is there any reason to use FireBird over Safari?
Choice is a good thing, of course, but what are the advantages/disadvantages?
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I use Safari in Mac OS X, as a rule, but I haven't used anything but Firebird for Linux or Windows since I first downloaded it. It's an impressive program, and I love the fact that there's no installer to deal with. Everything's in one folder. It works well for the "Power User" type, but I've been passing the word among even my less tech-savvy friends.
Now it can be my browser of choice on all of the machines I use.
When encryption is outlawed, ?o'AZ-,++o+i++##4AoA+-/-C++bI+/.+~
Does it use native Aqua controls yet?
Until it does, I'm sticking with Camino and/or Safari. There's little enough difference (especially compared to Camino) to me, that how the controls look is a big deal to me. Aqua = pretty and blends in, other = UGLY.
A Minesweeper clone that doesn't suck
Hope this helps anyone else who gets the same problem.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Odd -- the files for 0.7.1 appear to be missing from the download site. Are they afraid of being slashdotted? :^)
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Has anyone thoroughly compared these two?
I Just tried 0.7.1 and it is definitely faster for the sites I go to. It's especially faster for SSL sites (that's a big Safari complaint I have - SSL is s...l...o...w; Ive whined about it before on /.).
I use Firebird/Mozilla on WinXP/2K/2K3, Linux, BSD and Solaris and would love to see Camino base itself off of the Firebird fork and make it more Mac-like, but, until Safari get's an SLL clue, I'll take the fast rendering, good SSL performance and standards' compliance that seem to be there with 0.7.1.
One other thing it has over Safari is the ability to *not* wait for the whole stupid page to load before continuing. It's not a problem on all sites, but it happens more oft than not, again, especially on SSL sites.
Lastly, the best thing about it is that it doesn't use the brushed metal theme (it was nice for a while, but it really grates on ya over time).
I still don't know why Apple threw the KHTML folks the bone when they should have supported Mozilla.
Mind the gap...
Safari (like Internet Explorer on Windows boxes) will have the benefit of tighter OS integration.
The tabs are also better in Safari, but it wouldn't take much for the Mozilla folks to "get it right" (grin).
There is (at present) no nice way to do font stuff in Firebird. That will catch up before 1.0.
No SnapBack support in Firebird either.
Safari "feels" like a polished, professional application; Firebird still has a bit to go, but it will get there, especially if they take the fork for Camino suggestion in the "advatnages" post.
Mind the gap...
I like camino, is there any reason to use firebird? What features does it have, not have. My basic usage is: safari, unless safari dont work right, then I use camino. last resort IE for those evil webpages.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Actually, the Pinstripe theme has achieved this for some time for Mozilla, and evidently will be standard from the next release on in Firebird. I care for native controls too, and we have 'em in Firebird.
KHTML was chosen over Mozilla because it was smaller, which means it was easier for them to learn, extend, and test. Look back at the press releases and articles from back in January 2003, when the Safari beta was released; they go into their reasoning for choosing one KHTML over Mozilla.
-Ster
The question was directed at performance. I realize Mac folks (I am one, but I don't use one exclusively) tend to value other things besides performance, but I would think that having decent SSL speed would have been a big motivating factor.
I have a dual-G4 tower (867MHz) with 1.5GB RAM and just cannot believe Apple didn't bother to get that part done better.
Mind the gap...
I recall Steve Jobs breaking out some benchmarks showing Safari being faster than the other Mac browsers. I guess that didn't cover SSL, though. I haven't noticed any particular speed difference, but I guess my milage varied. :-)
-Ster
It is cool and all since it IS mozilla which is the browser I use exclusively anywhere else. But it doesnt have the right feel compared to safari. Not being brushed metal is part of that of course.
Hey I totally agree with you and I'd mod you up if I had points.
I used Firebird/Phoenix on Linux since about 0.2, but the lack of Java 1.4.1 support in Firebird was a big part of why I now use Safari on my iBook.
I've had problems with
From the pinstripe webpage:
"The Pinstripe theme uses an API provided by Mozilla called nsTheme to draw the widgets. This API allows Pinstripe to draw the widgets and some backgrounds using the Mac's Appearance Manager. So the operating system draws most of the theme."
So, its somewhat native in drawing, even if not precisely like Camino (fully native widgets). The page says that Windows and Linux are not supported because of this.
hehe and SJ would never fudge a benchmark to make the Apple product win :)
Um.... we didnt stray off the topic here any, did we?
I dont understand how in the hell a browser discussion turned into this!
Um. You're new here, right?
- Camino: no way through the GUI to disable image animation; relatively little information about cookies if you ask for cookie prompts.
- IE: bloody ancient. No tabs. Poor cookie control. No way to disable image animation.
- Safari: no way to disable image animation. Poor cookie control. Metal interface (although that's fairly easy to fix).
- Mozilla/Firebird: Proxies aren't linked to the Mac OS network preferences. (You'd be amazed at how annoying that is when you're shuffling a laptop between work and home...) Non-native widgets (minor irk from my point of view).
If somebody could change Firebird to link proxies to the network preferences, it'd be ideal -- I'd live with the non-native widgets quite happily. Or a cookie manager for Safari...Um.... no. this is just the most off topic thing i've seen in a while here on /.
It usually at least has SOMETHING to do with the topic.
Did that, of course. Did you have a specific service pack in mind?
You've never met Steve Jobs, I guess. Not surprising. He's just one guy. Not everybody in the world can have met him.
But at least go read an interview or a profile or something.
No, he would not fudge a benchmark to make an Apple product win. He would sooner gouge out his own eyes. Or, more accurately, he would gouge out the eyes of the employees who failed to meet his expectations.
One other thing it has over Safari is the ability to *not* wait for the whole stupid page to load before continuing.
I was testing out some progress-bar code and I've discovered that Safari has a 16k buffer. It will wait until the buffer is full, then draw, then fill the buffer again.
So in order to make my progress bar update on safari, I'd have to send 16k worth of spaces every time the bar moves.
In comparison, IE and Mozilla will draw the page as soon as it receives a closing body tag.
What the hell is a MacBeard?
I still don't know why Apple threw the KHTML folks the bone when they should have supported Mozilla.
Oh if ever. Gecko apps might take longer to load, but seriously: Safari cannot hold a candle to Camino.
Safari's SSL performance is directly tied to OpenSSL, which it uses. If Safari was to use Mozilla's SSL engine, it would be just as fast. Alternatively, Apple could put some work into optimizing OpenSSL
I kinda realize that I'm a tad on the nitpicking side when it comes to SSL, but think about the applications: online banking, webmail, bill paying, general authentication. Each of them should be in an SSL session. Let's just hope that Apple does improve the speed.
Mind the gap...
If you like fine-grained control over cookies like I do, use Firebird or Camino. You can set the browser to only accept cookies from certain sites, and you never have to fiddle with those sites again. In Safari, you have to manually turn on and off ALL cookies blocking to use sites that have cookies. This means that you can't block ad company cookies while allowing cookies for a shopping site, for example.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
We run Camino here, and it's the fastest browser we've ever seen. Camino is also a true Cocoa app and looks fairly good.
Why anyone would want to go 'lean and mean' with a Firebird install that's 5MB larger than Camino, only to gawk at all this garish Windows XP artwork and the ugly 'pseudo Aqua', is a mystery we will never understand.
One other thing it has over Safari is the ability to *not* wait for the whole stupid page to load before continuing.
This is a diffy one, and I think Camino does it too, and it really irks me to no end and has done for some time with all browsers.
I think the key is learning how to ignore threads you already have out there. You can't kill them, so you have to ignore them. There's a performance trade-off, but it need not be so bad.
I've done something similar with a network utility and it seems to work OK.