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An 'Open Letter to Apple'

ndpatel writes "It looks like Apple has a a success in Panther, but it also seems like they've ruffled a few feathers over at Proteron by incorporating a new Windows-esque task switcher that mimics (most of) the functionality of Proteron's LiteSwitch X utility for Jaguar. Proteron has written an "Open Memo" to Apple, but it doesn't seem like Apple really cares. Shades of Karelia, Watson, and Sherlock 3? Is Apple screwing its smaller developers, or just refining their software with relatively obvious improvements?"

17 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. Wasn't this in OS 10.1? by BusterB · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am using OS 10.1 right now, and pressing Apple-Tab switches applications. A little black arrow moves between apps on the launcher bar, without any extra software installed. We're getting 10.3 soon, so I can compare, but it seems like this has to be a refinement, not a new feature.

  2. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you telling me that Apple (and everybody else) aren't allowed to add new features to their products? If everybody had to think twice before adding a new feature because it might step on somebody elses toes then we'd still be using commandline interfaces.

    StarDock made themeable windows way before Microsoft added it to XP. They're still around, they just made sure their product was much versatile and better than the built in theme engine.

    Let's start a petition against Apple because of their iPod. I'm sure it's really harming the sales of the other HD based MP3 players. We'll ask Creative to do an open memo as well.

    1. Re:And? by stripes · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Are you telling me that Apple (and everybody else) aren't allowed to add new features to their products?

      Did we read the same letter? I don't recall it telling Apple they shouldn't have added the feature, it in fact was positave about that. All it said was "give us credit! tell people we did it first!"

      If the letter is to be beleved all they want is on the page that lists "150+ new features in panther" where they say "command tab now shows icons across the middle of the screen because we found out people like it that way" to say "just like Proteron's Lite Switch X we put icons across the middle of the display because we thought it looked cool they way they did it", or some such similar drivel.

      I donno if it is the world's best idea, but it seems fair and like it won't stifle innovation in the least (unless of corse this "pixel perfect immatation" was actually totally random luck, and the guys that did it had never seen the other task switcher...which seems a little unlikely)

    2. Re:And? by shotfeel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Should it say "just like Proteron's Lite Switch X...", or "just like Microsoft Windows."?

      I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing the reason the Proteron and Apple implementations look so much alike is due more to using the same APIs for drawing windows and text and following Apple's interface guidelines, than any deliberate "copying" on Apple's part.

  3. When the going gets tough.... by haunebu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can sympathize with Proteron, but LiteSwitch X isn't the most complicated app in town - it's simple as a concept and a common sense improvement over the old dock-based app switcher. It was a matter of time, and time's what they got.

    Proteron made their money for a year and a half, and by the time Apple finally caught up with the functionality they should have moved on. They can't sit around on their thumb and milk a simple idea forever.

    --

    Blue skies, Barthy Burgers, girls...

    1. Re:When the going gets tough.... by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Mod parent up - that's exactly right.

      You can honestly point to Microsoft for the first mainstream implementation of this kind of task-switching, that's for certain. They probably got the idea from somewhere else, in a slightly different form, like many such things.

      The salient points, I think, are:

      - This feature was in Windows before.
      - This feature was in Classic Mac OS before.
      - This feature is blindingly obvious to most half-skilled computer users.
      - Proteron made their money for a good period; LiteSwitch has not improved appreciably.

      The tone of the 'open letter' is that of a whiny brat. Personally I don't sympathize with the guy at all.. and I am a huge advocate, and owner, of shareware. But the idea that Apple just lifeted his groundbreaking concept wholesale is just stupid.

      This is much more cut-and-dried than the Sherlock situation (which frankly I also thought was an obvious idea). Apple cannot just 'stay away' from utility functions like this that turn out to be tremendously popular.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  4. The pot calling the kettle black by KrazzeeKooter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Is this suppose to be a joke? Because I'm laughing my butt off.

    If you look on Proteron's site here stated in really large type is "Dear Apple: You forgot some important features" and showing in particular the "switch and hide others" feature. This is pretty funny unto itself, but you see the entire design of the Proteron site is completely ripped off from Apple!

    Was this just a brilliant last minute stroke of inspiration, or planned publicity stunt? Either way it's well earned and well deserved. Bless you Proteron and I hope everyone buys a copy of their MaxMenu's.

    So, "switch and hide others"? I'd love to see this as part of Apple's Switch Advertising Campaign? I'd love to make Windows disappear!

    --
    I am a monkey. This is slashdot.
    1. Re:The pot calling the kettle black by milenko11 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I like how the lite switch icon is the system preferences icon without the apple logo.

  5. Re:Sounds like Microsoft's 'Stacker' problem. by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Insightful
    IIRC, the Stacker issue started out as a licensing issue, not a "They put something we sell into the OS!".

    A better comparison might be with Netscape vs IE-in-Windows, except that a web browser isn't really an operating system function (that is, most users see it as an application), whereas task switching is very much what the OS is supposed to be providing interfaces for.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  6. aftermarkets are always vulnerable. by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Its not like apple just stole the technology (ala windows and stacker). Nor is it a case of some sort of standard being embraced and extended.

    It is a lot like a automotive products after market seller finding a something they sell is going to be part of next years stadard in the car: Halogen lights, electonic ignition, automatic oilers, turbo chargers. It your market is the aftermarket you are always going to be vulnerable but that does not mean the major mareter is a bully.

    Where it gets illegal is when a major marketer uses their leverage to enter a new market. GM cars requiring GM tires and GM gas. The distinctions are fine sometimes since it requires the definition of what is a distict market. In this case there is no fine distinction. LiteSwitch was only useful on macs and it was not a commodity market.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  7. Serves the Sharecropper right. by _iris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They should have read Don't be a Sharecropper.

  8. Not certain what the big deal is by TomorrowPlusX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple builds in lightweight versions of a lot of things, which people would be screaming about if they didn't.

    For example:
    DiscBurner
    The Command-tab thing
    Safari
    TextEdit
    DiscUtility

    And so on. For each of these, there are commercial variations which are, should you need the features, better. You can always buy Toast, LightSwitch, OmniWeb, BBEdit, DiscWarrior and so on.

    Is this really a big deal? LightSwitch is *better* than the built-in. I paid for it. Toast is better in some ways than DiscBurner -- I paid for it.

    As far as I can tell, Apple's doing us a service. Basic versions of useful ustilities *come* with the system. Should you decide you need better, *pay* for something better from a third party.

    Nobody screams when an OS comes with a text editor. We just buy a batter one, or download a good freeware.

    Move along now, nothing to see here.

    --

    lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
    1. Re:Not certain what the big deal is by hrbrmstr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pecisely. MacSlash already beat this topic to death, but I have no sympathy for a company who has/had such a short-sided business model.

      OS X has much better built-in media burning than an alot of other OSes (i.e. Windows), but I too purchased Toast since I wanted more (and the latest version kicks some serious butt!). No one is going to pay money for an OS without getting some decent built-in features.

      All this ruckus over Cmd-Tab. The previous functionality (moving to apps in the doc) did pretty much the same thing, but the 10.3 feature makes it prettier and more akin (unfortunatley) to something Windows has had forever.

      I was going to hold off installing 10.3 (the 10.2.8 update burned me a bit), but I might just go get it tonight and install it, startup a bunch of apps and use the new Cmd-Tab just to create more angst for LiteSwitchX.

      --
      Mind the gap...
  9. Action GoMac? by Balthisar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't remember how fast Command-Tab switching goes back in classic Mac OS -- at least Mac OS 9, and maybe the intermediate releases of Mac OS 8 (maybe 8.5?). Sure, no on-screen feedback like now, but the applications switched. The visual feedback is something I definitely liked from Windows, so I'd always installed and used Action Go! Mac (http://www.poweronsoftware.com/products/actionGom ac/), which did exactly what I wanted it to. I'd never, ever heard of Proteron in those days. So, maybe PowerOn Software ought to be griping to Proteron that they got ripped off.

    I did, though, hear of Proteron in the Mac OS X 10.1 or so days. And I used their free version of LiteSwitch. In fact, I used it until Friday when I installed Panther. Of course 10.2 made Cmd-Tab not work, trying to force you to upgrade to the paid version of LiteSwitch. But a nice, little, free Haxie took care of that -- free versions kept on chugging along.

    I prefer to have the built in version. I wish no ill will toward Proteron, but I do hope they grow up.

    --
    --Jim (me)
  10. We, Proteron, shall be "pot"... by superdan2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe Proteron should drop the folks at Microsoft an email and thank them for the inspiration for LiteSwitch X in the first place.

    Not that I'm pro-Microsoft, or anti-Proteron. I used LiteSwitch back in my OS 9 days, but Fried Christ on a Stick, don't demand credit for something that you copied from another OS in the first place.

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    blog |
  11. Why Apple Shouldn't Give Credit by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, not morally. Legally.

    If Apple says publicly at the launch of Mac OS X 10.3, "We've got this excellent new switcher behavior, coopted entirely from the hard work of Proteron's LiteSwitchX utility," That might make Proteron feel good. It might even be a fair gesture. However... if Proteron then took Apple to court, they'd have a great big leg to stand on when they said Apple ripped them off.

    I don't know if that kind of rip off is illegal or not, but Apple would have handed them at least a part of the court case. So they can't make that little gesture.

    Too bad. Whatever. Move on, whiny Proteron dude.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  12. Nice classic whining by tyrione · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't wait until all the unreleased MECCA (Openstep 5 codenamed project we @ NeXT never released) and all its innovative UI paradigms slowly re-emerge into OS X, then we'll see even more whining.

    Folks, very few "features" that are being added by third parties are new in concept. Operating Systems companies like Microsoft and Apple have years ahead of the third parties in testing and design theory allowing them to pick and choose when the right time to introduce such features or not presents itself.

    Compound this on the purchase of companies which innovation back into companies like Microsoft and Apple and you'll begin to see how is it that they have such deep technological pools that seem to just appear when they need them to appear.

    Third Parties that seize upon basic alternative action paradigms to sell shareware should rethink what they need to be in order to be viewed as "visionary."

    It's not as if the industry is done with innovation, just done with copying.

    I can't wait to read about UNIX utilities now being wrapped in intelligent GUIs as being grounds for a lawsuit.