Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the no-beefs-with-better-battery dept.
X Bass writes "Available Tuesday, Dell's 15 and 20GB DJ adds to the growing field of iPod wannabes. Is it worthy or is it just another player that falls short of the iPod's greatness?"
the people that chose thig thing over an iPod
by
the_2nd_coming
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
will get sick of it when tehy get lost in that god awful MMJB Store.
--
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Archos av340
by
way2trivial
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I may have spent twice the cash, but for 652 shipped, I have a "twice the hard drive" 40 gig device that I can watch movies on..
I do wish to christ my pc's TV recording software could record to the format the Archos uses for input.. conversion of every file is a pain in the ass.. but I can take my weekly shows with me when I want them
-- every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Interesting and relevant article:
http://daringfireball.net/2003/10/dells_dud.html
Tom
Why is the iPod so much better?
by
bjb
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I keep reading about these iPod wanna-bes, but after never really using any of them, I have to wonder: if the big thing is that the iPod has a built in hard drive, ample memory for caching, and good sound, why can't the several competitors make something good as well?
In other words, what makes the iPod the "gold standard" over all the others which seem to have similar specs?
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Re:Why is the iPod so much better?
by
Golias
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Several things make the iPod the one to get:
1. Firewire connection for fast synchronization. This feature is huge. When I add a couple albums to my iTunes playlist, I can dump them into my iPod almost instantly.
2. Small and light. When I unplug the headphones, it's less weight or bulk than my wallet, and I often carry it in the pocket of my jeans. This not only makes it nice for jogging, but at serves double duty as a "pull out" media player for my car when I park in bad neighborhoods.
3. AAC support. Okay, Ogg Vorbis is more Stalmanist, blah blah blah, but AAC at 128 sounds as good or better, at least to me, as VBR MP3 while taking up less space on the HD.
4. It can double as a portable Firewire/USB2 hard drive. It serves as massive storage for your digital camera, or a great way to "sneaker net" a Linux distro to another building.
5. Price. For once, Apple is not selling the most expensive product on the market. The iPod sells for very little above what the HD alone would sell for.
If there's something I would improve about the iPod, it's RAM. Bumping up the memory to 64MB would mean even longer battery life and better support for really long tracks. If an iPod were available for $100 more that doubled the memory, I would definitely trade up.
Another improvement that would be nice would be to somehow get rid of the momentary pause between tracks. I hate joining tracks just to avoid that interruption.
--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Not universally supported however.
by
rueben
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
OS Supported: Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP, Windows 2000 Supported Media Players: Dell Jukebox by Musicmatch, Windows Media Player 9, RealONE Player
Well, the iPod was only available to Apple users to start with and they sold pretty well...
I wonder if you can use this as a device to store files like the iPod. If it is plug-and-pray w/USB 2.0, couldn't they say it is supported by any OS that supports USB?
Can't load music from outside sources
by
abe+ferlman
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· Score: 4, Interesting
According to the review I read, this device only lets you load music through the musicmatch jukebox service- is this their way of trying to enforce DRM?
Is it really too much to ask for a USB mass storage interface? It's so simple, and everyone who has a computer understands it- it's just a new disk.
Re:No choice ?
by
Mr+Smidge
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Hear hear...
The parent makes a good point that I feel exactly the same about. How much can it cost to implement an Ogg Vorbis decoder anyway?
Let's see: Open source integer-only decoding algorithm, check. Zero royalties, check.
The demand isn't going to change hugely until some hardware players are out there.. so what's stopping the hardware players get out there with Vorbis support? (don't say lack of demand, I know that already)
Anything that relies on MusicMatch Jukebox
by
Polaris
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
is to be avoided. Thank God Apple released iTunes for Windows, so I don't have to use MMJB any more; dumb, painfully unintuitive, annoying and just plain incompetent (told me my iPod was "full" after loading about a hundred songs!)
Another player crippled...
by
PurplePhase
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
...because it's missing a second interface: 1394
I'd also like to know the playback time with the backlight on continuously - that should have been given so we know the other end of that spectrum. Unless, of course, everyone knows what music they want to listen to over a 16 hour period when they program the playlist back at home while the battery is charging...
but after reading that , I dont know. The intro price is 299 for the 20GB version, but I could pay not terribly much more for a similarly equipped iPod, AND have the bonus benefit of sexiness that is the iPod.
Actually I have been looking at these for a while to replace my lil mini-disk player, and after all that, I am still leaning to the iPod.
The Dell looks nice, but it still looks utilitarian... it just doesnt have the smooth lines of the iPod, and the jog dial too...
And yes, I will be buying an older iPod, because the new ones just dont have the smurfiness of the second gen jog dial.
-- "Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
Does it work EASILY with Linux?
by
harlows_monkeys
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Here's what I want from an MP3 player:
I plug it into a USB or Firewire port, and it shows up as a disk, with a filesystem that Linux can read and write.
I can copy music on to and off of the device by simply copying MP3 files (it is OK if other formats, such as those with DRM, are supported, as long as I can manage regular MP3 files with simple copying.
It uses the organization on the filesystem to determine the organization shown to the user. That is, if I want to play an album, I can simply navigate to the directory and tell it to play, and it plays all the songs in that directory (I'm willing to make sure my songs are named so that alphabetically they are in the right order).
If I can point it at playlists in a standard format, that is fine, if it is in addition supporting simple playing of all songs in a directory in order.
On my computer, I don't use any jukebox application. I simply have my MP3s organized in directories. I leave an XMMS directory browser open in my music directory, so with a double click or two, can add a whole album to my playlist. Since I've got everything organized for that, I don't need fancy jukebox or sync software...I just want to plug in, and use the usual Linux tools to make the directory on the player match my Linux music directory, and be done.
I can't tell if the Dell does this or not.
The Archos players work perfectly for this, but I'm running out of space on my 15 gig, and so am hoping Archos, or someone, will come out with a 30 gig or more that works this way, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Re:Close but no cigar
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
Well, you're missing some of the positive aspects:
For one thing, it has about 2x the battery life of the iPod.
The look and feel versus the iPod is more a subjective thing, IMHO, and not simply "worse".
$100 cheaper price tag for the same amount of storage space (20GB)
Some of the other things may or may be not be fixed in the future, too, but of course this is purely speculative:
Remote and FM transmitter could possibly be offered as accessories.
Software/firmware might be upgradeable, possibly allowing it to be used cross-platform, as a storage device, and with other programs besides from MusicMatch (although probably not if Dell has an agreement with MM).
Still, the Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen seems to offer many of these features too, including the longer battery life, and it's even cheaper than the Dell. *shrug*
Microphone
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
It's got an integrated microphone. Ok, but what I really need is a line-in. I want to be able to get a good-quality voice recording of about 30 hours of lectures, and an integrated mike just ain't gonna swing it when I'm sitting in the back.
It's not like it's a huge legal liability for the manufacturer, it's an analog line. It'd make it easier to convert your old vinyl but that's about it.
I've seen a one or two that have a line-in, but a review of one complained of reliability problems...anybody have suggestions?
Oh yeah, these are wilderness classes, no AC power even remotely available.
At what point...
by
badasscat
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
At what point do we stop calling these things "iPod wannabes" and start simple calling them MP3 players? (Or, if you want to get technical, hard drive-based MP3 players.) I mean it's been a while since hard drive based players have become popular and the iPod is far from the only one. Why do we not call IBM-compatible PC's "IBM PC wannabes"? Or portable CD players "discman wannabes"?
I just think everybody's way past the point of trying to copy Apple. Apart from being square-ish, there's very little that I can see in almost any of the current crop of drive-based players that resembles an iPod. People always complain about things like "it's not as small as iPod!", "it doesn't have the buttons on the front like iPod!", "it's not white like iPod!" Well, maybe that's because it's not an iPod and it's not trying to be an iPod! It's an MP3 player, and it's different than iPod.
Myself, the important things in one of these are price vs. size, stability, openness, and ease of use. I don't care how much like the iPod it is; in fact, the iPod has significant problems (DRM, stability issues, high price, past quality control problems) that preclude me from buying one. If it syncs fast and easily, if it doesn't skip or otherwise flake out while playing, if it plays a variety of formats without DRM and if it's cheap for the amount of space it has, then it seems like a good deal to me. I don't know if this thing fits that criteria (its use of MusicMatch for syncing seems to rule out a good interface, so that's disappointing), but I'm not measuring anything vs. the iPod. People need to use their own criteria; if you want an iPod, just buy a damn iPod.
makes $300 cell phones better...to customers
by
0x0d0a
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
The deal is that somebody that just dropped $300 or $400 on a device is unlikely to criticize it. It's the same phenomenon on game consoles (the dollar amounts are lower, but so is income for teens) that leads to "fanboyism".
The iPod was just about the first player that a lot of people would consider. It was well-built, small, had plenty of storage space, a good interface (AFAI can tell, the iPod team is where all the *good* HCI people at Apple fled when OS X came out), and software that *didn't* have an awful custom-bitmapped interface. As a result, a lot of people picked one up. Now, the subconscious thought of "I blew all that money on an iPod, and I'll argue against anyone insinuating that buying an iPod might no longer be worth it" starts affecting people. Same thing happens to Porsche owners, or owners of other luxury goods. As a result, the iPod gets a disproportionate amount of praise.
Re:a link that doesn't suck
by
worm+eater
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
So Dell is no longer a PC maker?
Yes and no. The music store is just a branded version of the Musicmatch store, so it's not really Dell, but just a convenient partnership. The Dell DJ is just a relatively minor foray into consumer electronics. I wouldn't want to say that Apple is no longer a PC maker because of the iPod, nor that Microsoft is no longer a software maker because of the XBox. I think if the Dell DJ and the HDTVs take off, then Dell could become the next Sony (who just laid of 20,000 workers). But I would stay right now they are just testing the waters.
-- Maybe partying will help...
Re:a link that doesn't suck
by
jargoone
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
So you addressed the feel, and the looks. That's great, but I tend to listen to my mp3 player. It sits on my desk or in my car, and I don't give a rat's ass about people being unimpressed by my choice of electronics.
Not everybody is as self-conscious, and has the same needs, as you.
Anyone else notice this little copyright snafu ?
by
Razor+Blades+are+Not
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· Score: 2, Interesting
So on the main philips Portable Audio page, I see a little photo of a girl reclining on a bed with a Philips MP3 player in her hand...
It's the exact same shot from the DELL animation, but with the dell DJ overlayed with the philips player. You can tell its Philips who did the "appropriating" here, because the girls fingers are blurred out in their shot, and not in the Dell one.
For Shame Philips !
Vorbis hardware players that exist *right* *now*
by
Z-MaxX
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
From the current and rapidly expanding Vorbis Hardware list:
Consumer products that support Vorbis natively:
Slashdot Mirror
will get sick of it when tehy get lost in that god awful MMJB Store.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I do wish to christ my pc's TV recording software could record to the format the Archos uses for input.. conversion of every file is a pain in the ass..
but I can take my weekly shows with me when I want them
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Interesting and relevant article: http://daringfireball.net/2003/10/dells_dud.html Tom
In other words, what makes the iPod the "gold standard" over all the others which seem to have similar specs?
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
OS Supported: Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP, Windows 2000
Supported Media Players: Dell Jukebox by Musicmatch, Windows Media Player 9, RealONE Player
Well, the iPod was only available to Apple users to start with and they sold pretty well...
I wonder if you can use this as a device to store files like the iPod. If it is plug-and-pray w/USB 2.0, couldn't they say it is supported by any OS that supports USB?
According to the review I read, this device only lets you load music through the musicmatch jukebox service- is this their way of trying to enforce DRM?
Is it really too much to ask for a USB mass storage interface? It's so simple, and everyone who has a computer understands it- it's just a new disk.
Geez.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Hear hear...
The parent makes a good point that I feel exactly the same about. How much can it cost to implement an Ogg Vorbis decoder anyway?
Let's see:
Open source integer-only decoding algorithm, check.
Zero royalties, check.
The demand isn't going to change hugely until some hardware players are out there.. so what's stopping the hardware players get out there with Vorbis support? (don't say lack of demand, I know that already)
is to be avoided. Thank God Apple released iTunes for Windows, so I don't have to use MMJB any more; dumb, painfully unintuitive, annoying and just plain incompetent (told me my iPod was "full" after loading about a hundred songs!)
...because it's missing a second interface: 1394
I'd also like to know the playback time with the backlight on continuously - that should have been given so we know the other end of that spectrum. Unless, of course, everyone knows what music they want to listen to over a 16 hour period when they program the playlist back at home while the battery is charging...
8-PP
First, heres a good link to the 20GB version:
20 Gb Dell DJ
but after reading that , I dont know. The intro price is 299 for the 20GB version, but I could pay not terribly much more for a similarly equipped iPod, AND have the bonus benefit of sexiness that is the iPod.
Actually I have been looking at these for a while to replace my lil mini-disk player, and after all that, I am still leaning to the iPod.
The Dell looks nice, but it still looks utilitarian... it just doesnt have the smooth lines of the iPod, and the jog dial too...
And yes, I will be buying an older iPod, because the new ones just dont have the smurfiness of the second gen jog dial.
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
I plug it into a USB or Firewire port, and it shows up as a disk, with a filesystem that Linux can read and write.
I can copy music on to and off of the device by simply copying MP3 files (it is OK if other formats, such as those with DRM, are supported, as long as I can manage regular MP3 files with simple copying.
It uses the organization on the filesystem to determine the organization shown to the user. That is, if I want to play an album, I can simply navigate to the directory and tell it to play, and it plays all the songs in that directory (I'm willing to make sure my songs are named so that alphabetically they are in the right order).
If I can point it at playlists in a standard format, that is fine, if it is in addition supporting simple playing of all songs in a directory in order.
On my computer, I don't use any jukebox application. I simply have my MP3s organized in directories. I leave an XMMS directory browser open in my music directory, so with a double click or two, can add a whole album to my playlist. Since I've got everything organized for that, I don't need fancy jukebox or sync software...I just want to plug in, and use the usual Linux tools to make the directory on the player match my Linux music directory, and be done.
I can't tell if the Dell does this or not.
The Archos players work perfectly for this, but I'm running out of space on my 15 gig, and so am hoping Archos, or someone, will come out with a 30 gig or more that works this way, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Some of the other things may or may be not be fixed in the future, too, but of course this is purely speculative:
Still, the Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen seems to offer many of these features too, including the longer battery life, and it's even cheaper than the Dell. *shrug*
It's not like it's a huge legal liability for the manufacturer, it's an analog line. It'd make it easier to convert your old vinyl but that's about it.
I've seen a one or two that have a line-in, but a review of one complained of reliability problems...anybody have suggestions?
Oh yeah, these are wilderness classes, no AC power even remotely available.
At what point do we stop calling these things "iPod wannabes" and start simple calling them MP3 players? (Or, if you want to get technical, hard drive-based MP3 players.) I mean it's been a while since hard drive based players have become popular and the iPod is far from the only one. Why do we not call IBM-compatible PC's "IBM PC wannabes"? Or portable CD players "discman wannabes"?
I just think everybody's way past the point of trying to copy Apple. Apart from being square-ish, there's very little that I can see in almost any of the current crop of drive-based players that resembles an iPod. People always complain about things like "it's not as small as iPod!", "it doesn't have the buttons on the front like iPod!", "it's not white like iPod!" Well, maybe that's because it's not an iPod and it's not trying to be an iPod! It's an MP3 player, and it's different than iPod.
Myself, the important things in one of these are price vs. size, stability, openness, and ease of use. I don't care how much like the iPod it is; in fact, the iPod has significant problems (DRM, stability issues, high price, past quality control problems) that preclude me from buying one. If it syncs fast and easily, if it doesn't skip or otherwise flake out while playing, if it plays a variety of formats without DRM and if it's cheap for the amount of space it has, then it seems like a good deal to me. I don't know if this thing fits that criteria (its use of MusicMatch for syncing seems to rule out a good interface, so that's disappointing), but I'm not measuring anything vs. the iPod. People need to use their own criteria; if you want an iPod, just buy a damn iPod.
The deal is that somebody that just dropped $300 or $400 on a device is unlikely to criticize it. It's the same phenomenon on game consoles (the dollar amounts are lower, but so is income for teens) that leads to "fanboyism".
The iPod was just about the first player that a lot of people would consider. It was well-built, small, had plenty of storage space, a good interface (AFAI can tell, the iPod team is where all the *good* HCI people at Apple fled when OS X came out), and software that *didn't* have an awful custom-bitmapped interface. As a result, a lot of people picked one up. Now, the subconscious thought of "I blew all that money on an iPod, and I'll argue against anyone insinuating that buying an iPod might no longer be worth it" starts affecting people. Same thing happens to Porsche owners, or owners of other luxury goods. As a result, the iPod gets a disproportionate amount of praise.
May we never see th
So Dell is no longer a PC maker?
Yes and no. The music store is just a branded version of the Musicmatch store, so it's not really Dell, but just a convenient partnership. The Dell DJ is just a relatively minor foray into consumer electronics. I wouldn't want to say that Apple is no longer a PC maker because of the iPod, nor that Microsoft is no longer a software maker because of the XBox. I think if the Dell DJ and the HDTVs take off, then Dell could become the next Sony (who just laid of 20,000 workers). But I would stay right now they are just testing the waters.
Maybe partying will help...
So you addressed the feel, and the looks. That's great, but I tend to listen to my mp3 player. It sits on my desk or in my car, and I don't give a rat's ass about people being unimpressed by my choice of electronics.
Not everybody is as self-conscious, and has the same needs, as you.
So on the main philips Portable Audio page, I see a little photo of a girl reclining on a bed with a Philips MP3 player in her hand...
It's the exact same shot from the DELL animation, but with the dell DJ overlayed with the philips player. You can tell its Philips who did the "appropriating" here, because the girls fingers are blurred out in their shot, and not in the Dell one.
For Shame Philips !
Dr Superlove 300ml. I use my powers for awesome