Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the no-beefs-with-better-battery dept.
X Bass writes "Available Tuesday, Dell's 15 and 20GB DJ adds to the growing field of iPod wannabes. Is it worthy or is it just another player that falls short of the iPod's greatness?"
I'm probably not the only one more interested in photos than in learning that it has a 3.6h charge time.:)
Re:a link that doesn't suck
by
watzinaneihm
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The poster of the story missed a lot of stuff in the blurb. Dell has launched a Musicplayer, a music store, high speed internet connection and a HDTV. Its all there on the page jbellis linked to.
So Dell is no longer a PC maker?
-- .ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
Re:a link that doesn't suck
by
iCEBaLM
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Yeah, the "Dell Digital Music Store" has a great selection, I went to that page and imagine my surprise at seeing:
Check out Hoobastank's newest single!
I had to read that name atleast 5 times, while laughing, to make sure it was real.
Loads of the greatest classical works ever written were only written so the composer could make some scratch. However a lot of these composers would be working on something amazing on their own time and composed for roalty and richies to put food on the table and get their music heard.
Today the same thing still happens, however I think the artists you're talking about are the ones who are created by the record companies and who are not actually contributing greatly to their art. They just spend money in their spare time and make others look bad.
Paying for good music is a great idea as it keeps great music coming. It's paying for shit that is stupid and detrimental.
Archos av340
by
way2trivial
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I may have spent twice the cash, but for 652 shipped, I have a "twice the hard drive" 40 gig device that I can watch movies on..
I do wish to christ my pc's TV recording software could record to the format the Archos uses for input.. conversion of every file is a pain in the ass.. but I can take my weekly shows with me when I want them
-- every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
and speaking of photos
by
jbellis
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
the dell dj (gah) is not as good-looking as the nomad zen nx let alone the ipod. Disappointing.:-|
Interesting and relevant article:
http://daringfireball.net/2003/10/dells_dud.html
Tom
Why is the iPod so much better?
by
bjb
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I keep reading about these iPod wanna-bes, but after never really using any of them, I have to wonder: if the big thing is that the iPod has a built in hard drive, ample memory for caching, and good sound, why can't the several competitors make something good as well?
In other words, what makes the iPod the "gold standard" over all the others which seem to have similar specs?
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Re:Why is the iPod so much better?
by
Golias
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
Several things make the iPod the one to get:
1. Firewire connection for fast synchronization. This feature is huge. When I add a couple albums to my iTunes playlist, I can dump them into my iPod almost instantly.
2. Small and light. When I unplug the headphones, it's less weight or bulk than my wallet, and I often carry it in the pocket of my jeans. This not only makes it nice for jogging, but at serves double duty as a "pull out" media player for my car when I park in bad neighborhoods.
3. AAC support. Okay, Ogg Vorbis is more Stalmanist, blah blah blah, but AAC at 128 sounds as good or better, at least to me, as VBR MP3 while taking up less space on the HD.
4. It can double as a portable Firewire/USB2 hard drive. It serves as massive storage for your digital camera, or a great way to "sneaker net" a Linux distro to another building.
5. Price. For once, Apple is not selling the most expensive product on the market. The iPod sells for very little above what the HD alone would sell for.
If there's something I would improve about the iPod, it's RAM. Bumping up the memory to 64MB would mean even longer battery life and better support for really long tracks. If an iPod were available for $100 more that doubled the memory, I would definitely trade up.
Another improvement that would be nice would be to somehow get rid of the momentary pause between tracks. I hate joining tracks just to avoid that interruption.
--
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Re:Why is the iPod so much better?
by
Talez
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Re:Why is the iPod so much better?
by
ozbird
·
· Score: 4, Funny
It can double as a portable Firewire/USB2 hard drive.
This is probably the real reason for the iPod's popularity - they can be slipped into purchase orders for Apple hardware as an "external Firewire HDD", and managers won't bat an eyelid!;-)
(No I don't have an iPod, you insensitive clod!)
Re:Why is the iPod so much better?
by
matthew.thompson
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
The usual apple reasons.
- It just works.
- It's industrial design is a notch above the rest - the latest version has no moving buttons on the main control area - no pocket fluff can get in and clog the works.
- Firewire syncing and charging from one cable. This is far better than USB syncing as it provide more current and allows for just as fast, if not faster syncs than USB 2.0
- It's smaller - it's about the smallest hard drive based play you can buy
- Sound quality - the iPod doesn't sacrifice sound quality, there are technically better sounding units but the tradeoffs make the iPod a leader
- iTunes integration - ratings, sound check, play lists, etc - make a change on the iPod to a rating and it syncs back to the iTunes database.
- add-ons - line out on the dock, media card reader, microphone etc - the iPod has loads of accessories that are tailored specifically for it rather than generic add-ons which may or may not work.
- User interface - even with the revised top 4 buttons instead of the buttons around the you can operate it one handedly and everything is easy to read and get through.
There's probably more but I can't sit here and type all day - I have 2200 tracks to listen to on my iPod:o)
-- Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Re:Why is the iPod so much better?
by
nuxx
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
3. AAC support. Okay, Ogg Vorbis is more Stalmanist, blah blah blah, but AAC at 128 sounds as good or better, at least to me, as VBR MP3 while taking up less space on the HD.
Psst. Not to be rude, but at 128kbps MP3 and AAC will take the same amount of space for the same length track. AAC will sound markedly better.
I personally used to be a huge Ogg Vorbis fan, then I got an iPod and went back to MP3s for convience. Having acquired a G5 earlier this month, I decided to try reripping parts of my collection to AAC, just as a test. And there is a difference.
I have my iPod running line in to my car stereo, and with 192kbps MP3s (using Apple's encoder, which is very good), they'd occasionally sound flat, somewhat muffled, and just generally not as good as the in-dash stereo. Switching to same-bitrate AACs, everything sounds a bit brighter, almost indistinguishable from audio CDs in the player itself.
I've seen the same results in my living room as well, where I have a second dock running line out straight into the stereo.
Regarding the parent post, though, I think that the big seller with the iPod is the interface. It works night and day better than the competition, and the menuing system is very, very similar to the 'Browse' layout in iTunes.
Apple is big on design and style. Combine this, with a product that works very well and is priced reasonably, and you've got a winner....and it's been proven.
Can't load music from outside sources
by
abe+ferlman
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
According to the review I read, this device only lets you load music through the musicmatch jukebox service- is this their way of trying to enforce DRM?
Is it really too much to ask for a USB mass storage interface? It's so simple, and everyone who has a computer understands it- it's just a new disk.
Re:Can't load music from outside sources
by
jdreed1024
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Is it really too much to ask for a USB mass storage interface? It's so simple, and everyone who has a computer understands it- it's just a new disk.
Which is another benefit the iPod has going for it. It's a simple firewire disk drive (I think the second generation ones are USB2 drives or firewire drives - I have an older model). Plug it in, and your Mac (or PC, if you formatted it as FAT32) will see it as a plain vanilla firewire drive. You can dump files on there without affecting your its use as a music player at all (well, unless you specifically go in and erase the hidden directory structure containing the MP3s, but that takes effort and it's your own damn fault).
My iPod has saved my ass more than once - once when I had to take my laptop in for servicing, I simply backed up my important data to the iPod, and wiped the laptop drive (I don't trust the technicians). Again when I had to bring a large (read ~2.3GB) data set into work. I did not have a DVD burner (nor did work have a machine that reads DVD-ROMs), and uploading that much data via a cable modem that's throttled to 256Kbps upstream sucks hard. So, I could either have archived the data set with zip or rar and split it across several CDs, or used my iPod. The latter option was decidedly faster, and worked great.
A friend was telling me how I got screwed by spending twice as much on my iPod as he spent on his Nomad, but I told him, add up how much you spent on your Nomad and how much you spent on your 1GB pendrive, and now see who got the better deal. Of course, if you care about WMA audio, then maybe this Dell player or something similar is the way to go for you. Me, I prefer to keep my MP3s on an open filesystem.
-- There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
It's an MP3 player ...
by
peatbakke
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
... and... well, I guess that's it. Can I use it as a portable hard drive? Can I use it to sync calendars and contacts between work and home? Can I extend it with accessories for voice recording, download from compact flash cards, play games, or hack away with my own scripts?
I dunno. If I'm going to spend $300 on a gadget, it better do a hell of a lot more than simply play music. I think a full featured iPod with 10 GB of space is hell of a better deal than a 20 GB hard drive with a head phone jack.
Close but no cigar
by
SuperBanana
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Is it worthy or is it just another player that falls short of the iPod's greatness?
Let's see:
iPod: revision #3 or 4(I've lost track.) Like the rest of Apple's electronics, each revision is better than the last and encorporates everything they learned from the previous. Dell: first shot. Probably went to taiwanese companies and said "make us an iPod".
Larger all around
buttons versus iPod's touch-sensitive, sealed, no-moving-parts interface
No remote, no mic, no flash reader, no nifty powered-from-iPod FM transmitters.
Not cross-platform
Not useable as a storage device(or is it? Couldn't tell)
Not nearly as pretty(chrome, white.Tough to beat)
World's most popular online music service versus...musicmatch.
We may joke about this being YAiPOD, but i think having things like the Dell DJ and the Rio Karma out on the market will are a great thing for the iPod.
When the iPod originally came out, it was out of this world. Nobody had seen anything like it. Now it's a couple of years later, and yes it's smaller, and got a bigger hard drive, but not a lot has changed.
Having these new music players on the market is going to make Apple have to start thinking again. I'm not saying that Apple has to come out and give us a brand new, kick ass iPod (although I wouldn't be supprised if they did), it's just that now, they're going to have to work for that marketshare.
A summary of what's up
by
Schlemphfer
·
· Score: 5, Informative
1) How does it look?
The form factor is exactly what you'd expect from something with Dell on the nameplate: it's totally nondescript. It's actually made by Creative Labs and rebranded. As far as looks go, it's not an iPod any more than my 1990 Accord is a Porsche 911. In other words, it's not bad looking, but it's not good looking either.
2) What advantages does it have?
It looks like there's one, and only one, big advantage of this over the iPod -- this thing has a 16 hour battery life (The Tech TV people tested it and says you will get 15 hours.) That is a really compelling feature; when I spend an entire day driving, or have a long flight with a nasty layover, I can toast my iPod's battery.
The Dell is also a bit cheaper, but not by a lot. A 20 MB unit goes for $329, while Apple sells its 20 MB iPod for $399 at its store. I'd personally want to see the Dell more like 50% cheaper than the iPod for it to be a compelling alternative.
3) Is it an iPod killer?
In battery life, yes. In price, sort of. In looks, absolutely not. Tech TV gives a slight nod to the iPod, but without saying why.
Dell's entry into the field just means that digital music players are no longer cutting-edge products, and are about to be commodified. Expect to be able to get a good one, though perhaps not an iPod, for under $100 within the next couple years.
-- I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
And what about the iHP-120
by
NtwoO
·
· Score: 3, Informative
As if Iriver didn't make a suitable match to these dogs. The I river comes with Ogg support and a whizz of cool features. They may be a little more expensive, but it tends to be worth every penny.
-- !/* */
Lack of apt-get for iPod/Dell DJ biggest problem
by
Debian+Troll's+Best
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Due to the many hours I spend flying these days attending various open source conferences, a good MP3 player with large capacity and battery life is a must. I have been considering the Apple iPod, and now the Dell DJ very seriously. However, there is one very big shortcoming which both of them suffer from.
apt-get support is absolutely non-existent. When I want my music synchronized from my Debian box to my MP3 player, I want to do it with a simple 'apt-get install music' command. And when Justin Timberlake launches his latest album, adding it to my collection should only be a simple matter of 'apt-get upgrade Justin-Timberlake'.
Does anyone know if there is planned apt-get support in either of these MP3 players any time soon? It's a big issue for me. The only other thing I'd like to see changed is the iPod's interface be altered to use the 'dselect' interface for selecting songs and playlists. That would be cool.
Re:iPod greatness!?
by
darnok
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
As a proud iPod owner, I have to respond to this;->
The controls are pretty sensitive, but when you're carrying it around with you, you use the remote and disable the controls on the iPod itself. The remote's buttons aren't anywhere near as sensitive - you have to give them a decent push to use them.
The sound quality is winning "audiophile" recommendations; it's more than "just OK".
With respect to the high price tag, Apple got smart when they put a (token) address book and calendar on there. They're very close to useless, but the existence of these features qualifies the iPod as a tax deductible expense for lots of people. If you like, the "50% greater price tag" is being subsidised by the government. The lack of these features on other MP3 players means they don't qualify as being tax deductible, so they "cost more" as a result.
The addition of several 3rd party add-ons is also helping to push the iPod. Along with the expected car charges, battery kits etc., there's a FM transmitter (listen to your iPod through the car stereo without wiring it up!), an addon to dump your digital camera's card contents onto the disc and a few others that aren't of any interest to me personally. The 3rd party market sets the iPod apart from the rest; these features simply aren't available on other MP3 players.
I have to agree about the 8 hour battery life, though; it's not enough to commute to and from work and to use at work, which is what I'd like. Furthermore, since the life of the internal battery is limited to so many recharges, I suspect the iPod becomes a throwaway item after a couple of years when the batteries won't hold a charge any more.
Anything that relies on MusicMatch Jukebox
by
Polaris
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
is to be avoided. Thank God Apple released iTunes for Windows, so I don't have to use MMJB any more; dumb, painfully unintuitive, annoying and just plain incompetent (told me my iPod was "full" after loading about a hundred songs!)
Re:Anything that relies on MusicMatch Jukebox
by
nuxx
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I purchased a 30GB iPod back in May.
And almost returned it.
MusicMatch is such garbage that I had a very, very hard time getting it to see my iPod. Once I did, I had a hard time getting any of my personal music in it. I too had the problem with my iPod being 'full' with only a few songs in it...
Then I found EphPod. This piece of software kept me using my iPod under Windows for a few months. After that I got a used PowerMac G4 Cube, switched to iTunes, and never looked back.
With iTunes for Windows I think that Apple finally has a complete system in place for users to rip and sync music properly. Not the MusicMatch hack...
This is a good thing, in my opinion.
Another player crippled...
by
PurplePhase
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
...because it's missing a second interface: 1394
I'd also like to know the playback time with the backlight on continuously - that should have been given so we know the other end of that spectrum. Unless, of course, everyone knows what music they want to listen to over a 16 hour period when they program the playlist back at home while the battery is charging...
8-PP
Deactivating a PC is permanent?
by
weave
·
· Score: 4, Informative
What is this bit in the fine print?
Deactivating a PC is permanent and cannot be reversed, ever. Should you decide you no longer wish to play Musicmatch Downloads on a PC because (1) You already have three PCs activated and you wish to activate an alternate PC, or (2) You no longer use a particular PC, see ?Deactivate a Musicmatch Downloads account? from within Musicmatch Jukebox Help to learn more. Remember, deactivating the account will permanently prevent that PC from playing or downloading Musicmatch tracks.
I know of quite a few people who deauthorized a Mac before doing a clean install of Panther this past weekend to be safe, then reactivating it when done.
So what do they mean by "permanent?" If someone wants to wipe and reinstall their OS, what happens?
Re:iPod greatness!?
by
jpkunst
·
· Score: 5, Informative
I suspect the iPod becomes a throwaway item after a couple of years when the batteries won't hold a charge any more.
Price? I don't think so...
by
ZipR
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Ipod 20 gig $399
Ipod 40 gig $499
Archos Recorder 20 gig = $309
Recorder 30 = $369
Recorder 40 = $389
Recorder 60 = $439
Recorder 80 = $609
Of course it's not as sexy and only plays mp3s, but I think $100 dollar differences in price are substantial.
(Prices from Apple.com and newmp3technology.com)
Apple releases iPod
by
nitehorse
·
· Score: 3, Funny
Slashdot Mirror
here
:)
I'm probably not the only one more interested in photos than in learning that it has a 3.6h charge time.
Methinks Slashdot needs a new acronym. YAIPOD, anyone?
Nice interface, smooth, curvy, and durable design, sweetly glowing blue lights...
But the best I could come up with is the animation on their USA site
Also, I thought this was an interesting subhead for the article:
An Affordable and Easy Way to Legally Download Your Favorite Songs and Albums emphasis mine.
Can I bum a sig?
I do wish to christ my pc's TV recording software could record to the format the Archos uses for input.. conversion of every file is a pain in the ass..
but I can take my weekly shows with me when I want them
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
the dell dj (gah) is not as good-looking as the nomad zen nx let alone the ipod. Disappointing. :-|
Interesting and relevant article: http://daringfireball.net/2003/10/dells_dud.html Tom
In other words, what makes the iPod the "gold standard" over all the others which seem to have similar specs?
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
According to the review I read, this device only lets you load music through the musicmatch jukebox service- is this their way of trying to enforce DRM?
Is it really too much to ask for a USB mass storage interface? It's so simple, and everyone who has a computer understands it- it's just a new disk.
Geez.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
... and ... well, I guess that's it. Can I use it as a portable hard drive? Can I use it to sync calendars and contacts between work and home? Can I extend it with accessories for voice recording, download from compact flash cards, play games, or hack away with my own scripts?
I dunno. If I'm going to spend $300 on a gadget, it better do a hell of a lot more than simply play music. I think a full featured iPod with 10 GB of space is hell of a better deal than a 20 GB hard drive with a head phone jack.
Let's see:
I take it back- not even close.
Please help metamoderate.
When the iPod originally came out, it was out of this world. Nobody had seen anything like it. Now it's a couple of years later, and yes it's smaller, and got a bigger hard drive, but not a lot has changed.
Having these new music players on the market is going to make Apple have to start thinking again. I'm not saying that Apple has to come out and give us a brand new, kick ass iPod (although I wouldn't be supprised if they did), it's just that now, they're going to have to work for that marketshare.
The form factor is exactly what you'd expect from something with Dell on the nameplate: it's totally nondescript. It's actually made by Creative Labs and rebranded. As far as looks go, it's not an iPod any more than my 1990 Accord is a Porsche 911. In other words, it's not bad looking, but it's not good looking either.
2) What advantages does it have?
It looks like there's one, and only one, big advantage of this over the iPod -- this thing has a 16 hour battery life (The Tech TV people tested it and says you will get 15 hours.) That is a really compelling feature; when I spend an entire day driving, or have a long flight with a nasty layover, I can toast my iPod's battery.
The Dell is also a bit cheaper, but not by a lot. A 20 MB unit goes for $329, while Apple sells its 20 MB iPod for $399 at its store. I'd personally want to see the Dell more like 50% cheaper than the iPod for it to be a compelling alternative.
3) Is it an iPod killer?
In battery life, yes. In price, sort of. In looks, absolutely not. Tech TV gives a slight nod to the iPod, but without saying why.
Dell's entry into the field just means that digital music players are no longer cutting-edge products, and are about to be commodified. Expect to be able to get a good one, though perhaps not an iPod, for under $100 within the next couple years.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
As if Iriver didn't make a suitable match to these dogs. The I river comes with Ogg support and a whizz of cool features. They may be a little more expensive, but it tends to be worth every penny.
!
apt-get support is absolutely non-existent. When I want my music synchronized from my Debian box to my MP3 player, I want to do it with a simple 'apt-get install music' command. And when Justin Timberlake launches his latest album, adding it to my collection should only be a simple matter of 'apt-get upgrade Justin-Timberlake'.
Does anyone know if there is planned apt-get support in either of these MP3 players any time soon? It's a big issue for me. The only other thing I'd like to see changed is the iPod's interface be altered to use the 'dselect' interface for selecting songs and playlists. That would be cool.
As a proud iPod owner, I have to respond to this ;->
The controls are pretty sensitive, but when you're carrying it around with you, you use the remote and disable the controls on the iPod itself. The remote's buttons aren't anywhere near as sensitive - you have to give them a decent push to use them.
The sound quality is winning "audiophile" recommendations; it's more than "just OK".
With respect to the high price tag, Apple got smart when they put a (token) address book and calendar on there. They're very close to useless, but the existence of these features qualifies the iPod as a tax deductible expense for lots of people. If you like, the "50% greater price tag" is being subsidised by the government. The lack of these features on other MP3 players means they don't qualify as being tax deductible, so they "cost more" as a result.
The addition of several 3rd party add-ons is also helping to push the iPod. Along with the expected car charges, battery kits etc., there's a FM transmitter (listen to your iPod through the car stereo without wiring it up!), an addon to dump your digital camera's card contents onto the disc and a few others that aren't of any interest to me personally. The 3rd party market sets the iPod apart from the rest; these features simply aren't available on other MP3 players.
I have to agree about the 8 hour battery life, though; it's not enough to commute to and from work and to use at work, which is what I'd like. Furthermore, since the life of the internal battery is limited to so many recharges, I suspect the iPod becomes a throwaway item after a couple of years when the batteries won't hold a charge any more.
is to be avoided. Thank God Apple released iTunes for Windows, so I don't have to use MMJB any more; dumb, painfully unintuitive, annoying and just plain incompetent (told me my iPod was "full" after loading about a hundred songs!)
...because it's missing a second interface: 1394
I'd also like to know the playback time with the backlight on continuously - that should have been given so we know the other end of that spectrum. Unless, of course, everyone knows what music they want to listen to over a 16 hour period when they program the playlist back at home while the battery is charging...
8-PP
Deactivating a PC is permanent and cannot be reversed, ever. Should you decide you no longer wish to play Musicmatch Downloads on a PC because (1) You already have three PCs activated and you wish to activate an alternate PC, or (2) You no longer use a particular PC, see ?Deactivate a Musicmatch Downloads account? from within Musicmatch Jukebox Help to learn more. Remember, deactivating the account will permanently prevent that PC from playing or downloading Musicmatch tracks.
I know of quite a few people who deauthorized a Mac before doing a clean install of Panther this past weekend to be safe, then reactivating it when done.
So what do they mean by "permanent?" If someone wants to wipe and reinstall their OS, what happens?
I suspect the iPod becomes a throwaway item after a couple of years when the batteries won't hold a charge any more.
There are third-party battery replacements for the iPod available: http://www.pdasmart.com/ipodpartscenter.htm. (First item on the page.)
JP
Ipod 20 gig $399 Ipod 40 gig $499 Archos Recorder 20 gig = $309 Recorder 30 = $369 Recorder 40 = $389 Recorder 60 = $439 Recorder 80 = $609 Of course it's not as sexy and only plays mp3s, but I think $100 dollar differences in price are substantial. (Prices from Apple.com and newmp3technology.com)
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
Dr Superlove 300ml. I use my powers for awesome