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Guy Fawkes' Explosion Would Have Devasted London
Anonymous Coward writes "Experts at the University of Wales in Aberystwyth have worked out for the first time the true extent of the damage Guy Fawkes would have caused if his daring deed had not been foiled on November 5, 1605. " Sorry - history geek/major in me coming out, but this is definitiely one of those major points in history when things Could Have Gone Differently.
And let's not forget the South Bank ;-)
erm... no. Gunpower is the saltpeter mixture, TNT is tri-nitro-toluene, which is completely different. More like nitroglycerene if i recall.....
> It would be like blowing up the Senate building with all the people in it.
Huh? Our Senators are cowards who stay at home and have 'voice votes' when its time to pay their owners. See DMCA vote or yesterday's 87 billion Iraq vote. Almost 90 senators stayed home for the Iraq vote.
Sorry to get OT, but voice votes are as close to a bomb as far as democracy is concerned.
If anyone's interested in other results of conventional explosions, take a look at the texas city explosion in 1947 when a ship carrying fertilizer (supposedly, there is some debate about whether there was more behind it) detonated, or the fauld explosion in the UK in 1944 where 3670 tonnes of stored bombs exploded underground
I also understand that Brits seem to have tossed out the whole Nov 5th thing for the more commercial American import of Halloween, but haven't really picked up on the concept, with many kids showing up on pumpkinless doorsteps sans costume.
Not really. November 5th is still a bigger night in the U.K than Halloween; we spend UKP80million a year on fireworks, most of them for November 5th. Sales of plastic horns and Scream masks pall in comparision really.
What tends to happen is that Halloween simply gets overshadowed, which is why none of the kids really go for it with much gusto. Especially this year, where November 5th has fallen smack in the mid-week, meaning there are large scale firework displays both the weekend before and after.
Some of us Brits object to the American import of Halloween overshadowing our own pyrotechnic traditions.
Very funny diatribe about 20 minutes into last week's Now Show (radio 4 comedy programme) about this very matter.
Was Guy Fawkes Framed? find out here!
Since it may be my namesake's festival, I have to correct you on the "American Import" bit...
Though to be fair, Haloween as it is celibrated today is Americanised
Actually in 1605, Parliament was on the periphery of London. Back in those days, London was still concentrated around the original "City of London" -- a few miles downstream from Westminster. Almost the entire population lived and worked in or just outside "the City" (today it's the financial district of London). Linking the Houses of Parliament and the City was the Strand, which was lined by aristocrat's mansions, and (nearer to parliament) Whitehall, then the site of the main royal palace. So the devastation would have barely affected most of London's buildings or population.
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
Not even close. TNT is "tri-nitro toluene", is a pale yellow crystalline, aromatic hydrocarbon compound that melts at 81 C. It is way more stable than nitroglycerine (not related to gunpowder either). The specific combustion energy of TNT is 4.6 MJ/kg. I'm not sure what gunpowder formula Fawkes used, but I doubt that it could have been as effective as TNT.
Maybe not to do media studies (i.e. watching TV) or hotel and hospitality management, but to do something decent like Physics, Astrophysics, Engineering, Mathematics or Computer Science you need some decent A-Levels or equivalent. I'm not even Welsh, but I've been there and I can assure you that there is some pretty world-class research in Physics happening at Cardiff. Aberystwyth has its strong points too.
And note that Pumpkins are a recent New World import. Traditionally it was a Halloween turnip. (Now that's scarey!)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
In 1605, Guy Fawkes (also known as Guido - yes, really) and a group of conspirators attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament.
After Queen Elizabeth I died in 1603, English Catholics who had had a rough time under her reign had hoped that her successor, James I, would be more tolerant of their religion. Alas, he was not, and this angered a number of young men who decided that violent action was the answer.
One young man in particular, Robert Catesby suggested to some close friends that the thing to do was to blow up the Houses of Parliament. In doing so, they would kill the King, maybe even the Prince of Wales, and the Members of Parliament who were making life difficult for the Catholics. Today these conspirators would be known as extremists, or terrorists.
To carry out their plan, the conspirators got hold of 36 barrels of gunpowder - and stored it in a cellar, just under the House of Lords.
But as the group worked on the plot, it became clear that some innocent people would be hurt or killed in the attack. Some of the plotters started having second thoughts. One of the group members even sent an anonymous letter warning his friend, Lord Monteagle, to stay away from the Parliament on November 5th. Was the letter real?
The warning letter reached the King, and the King's forces made plans to stop the conspirators.
Guy Fawkes, who was in the cellar of the parliament with the 36 barrels of gunpowder when the authorities stormed it in the early hours of November 5th, was caught, tortured and executed.
It's unclear if the conspirators would ever have been able to pull off their plan to blow up the Parliament even if they had not been betrayed - some people think the gunpowder they were planning to use was so old as to be useless. Since Guy Fawkes and his colleagues got caught before trying to ignite the powder, we'll never know for certain.
These days, Guy Fawkes Day is also known as Bonfire Night. The event is commemorated every year with fireworks and burning effigies of Guy Fawkes on a bonfire.
Some of the English have been known to wonder whether they are celebrating Fawkes' execution or honoring his attempt to do away with the government.
An explosion of this magnitude (over 2.5 kilotonnes of TNT) did explode in a city back in 1917. Halifax, Nova Scotia in Canada was devestated by an explosion of a munitions ship on its way to Europe. The explosion killed almost 2000 people, injured over 9000 and rattled dishes about 300 km away. The explosion was so large, it was actually studied by Oppenheimer and his crew as a model of how to deliver the atomic bomb. From this, they determined that damaged is greatly enhanced when the bomb is exploded above ground. If you want to find out more, just go here.
We have a national day (it's not actually a holiday) in the UK (well, England certainly) on the 5th of November to celebrate the fact that Guy Fawkes, and his fellow conspiritors we prevented from commiting a major act of what was essentially religious-inspired terrorism, namely the assisnation of the monarch and parliament.
That's why effigies of Mr Fawkes are burnt as part of the celebrations.
Of course, given that Mr Fawkes represented the oppressed (at the time) Roman Catholic community, was he a terrorist, or a freedom fighter?
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
TNT, or tri-nitro-toluene, is a high explosive. It detonates, producing a violent shock wave.
High explosives are more violent in their effects than low explosives. That's why they are so popular with the military. They do a better job of breaking things.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Back in WW2, the RAF had a huge ammo depot called the Fauld.
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On November 27, 1944, there was an accident and it blew up.
This is the supposedly the largest non-nuclear explosion in recorded history.
3670 tons of bombs went up in an explosion that was seismically recordable in Casablanca
The crater was half a mile across.
78 people killed.
A photo:
http://www.historicairphotos.com/g_uk/ima
Some informative links with other photos:
http://www.carolyn.topmum.net/tutbury/fauld/fau
http://freespace.virgin.net/kehla.barnes/disast
King James I of England was King James VI of Scotland. Elizabeth's death and his accession was the union was seeded. Scotland would have lost its monarch too.
The energy of explosion of TNT is 3.9 MJ/kg while black powder has 2.8 MJ/kg. Black powder is low-explosive. It rather burns quickly than explodes so it is usually not used as an explosive. However, large amounts of black powder (especially well packed) can explode and the effects can be comparable to TNT (but never equal to).
Save the bandwidth. Don't use sigs!
My BS detector needle is hugging the high end again!!!!
FWIW, a high explosive is one where the detonation wave exceeds the speed of sound in the explosive so that it blows up, so to speak before it flies apart. High explosives do not need compression, but low-explosives do. This is why black powder goes off in a phut unless it is compressed so that it doesn't fly apart until all parts are reacting.
See my journal, I write things there
Dunk TNT in water, no effect. Hit it with a hammer - no effect. Warm it with a match - no effect. Place it in open and detonate it. The explosion is considerable.
Dunk gunpowder in water. Won't burn. Hit it. Boom. Apply a small spark (like static from your sweater.) Boom. Put a pile of it in the open. Shhhh! - a big cloud of smoke, some sparks, some bright fire, no explosion. (only puting it in relatively small chamber - like a gun, a barrel or a cellar, depending on amount - causes considerable explosion. Otherwise it just burns quite rapidly.
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Traditionally for Guy Fawkes night, the children will create a manakin type dummy a week or so before the event. The use old clothes and stuff the insides with newspaper and sow up the sleeves etc.
On the actual night the dummies (each one knows as a "Guy") are thrown onto the bonfire and watched as it burns. So the celebration is a basically watching Guy Fawkes burn for his crime.
Nope.
The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's
I also understand that Brits seem to have tossed out the whole Nov 5th thing for the more commercial American import of Halloween There's a typo there. What you meant was: I also understand that Brits seem to have tossed out the Halloween thing for the more commercial American import of US Halloween ... for indeed Hallowe'en (all hallow's[saints] eve) has been celebrated in Scotland and the north of England for generations.
Children would dress up and go round houses telling jokes, singing songs and reciting Spike Milligan in exchange for sweets, fruit and nuts. Valid enterprise through the dramatic arts.
Of course, imported television programmes put an end to that.
Now "kids" go down the "sidewalk" knocking on doors and saying "Trick or Treat", which is roughly equivalent to "nice car -- shame if anything should happen to it".
And of course we import those nasty sickly pumpkin things (what an export that must be for the ol US of A) instead of using the traditional housing for a halloween lantern: a turnip. And no, it's not called a swede -- it's a turnip.
Hal.
(Grumpy old twentysomething.)
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
There's some extra verses to the traditional rhyme that you don't ordinarily hear (for non Brits, it usuall finishes at 'should ever be forgot').
:)
Remember, remember,
The Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot;
I see no reason
Why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot,
Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes,
'Twas his intent
To blow up the King and the Parliament;
Three score barrels of powder below
Poor old England to overthrow;
By God's providence he was catch'd
With a dark lantern and lighted match
Holler Boys, holler boys make the bells ring,
Holler boys, holler boys, God save the King.
And what shall we do with him?
BURN HIM!
I attended the celebrations in Lewes, Sussex a few years ago where a crowd gathers in the town square late at night to recite the rhyme. IIRC the locals all seemed to know even more verses that went on about hanging, drawing and quartering him...
Would have gone again this year, but the Warchowski brothers interfered with my plans
OH yes, a man, involved in a plot to kill the current government to start a Catholic Jihad and take over Government is someone w/ "Honest Intentions".
Assuming these were his intentions and he stated them as such then they were honest intentions.
Perhaps not honorable but that really depends on which side of the debate you're on.
This is in contrast to elected officials who say anything to get elected and then do other things.
TNT = trinitrotoluene. It's not exactly a plastic explosive, it's kind of like wax. Requires an explosive train to get going, you can do about anything to TNT and it will not go boom. Burn it, mash it, electric charges, no effect. Don't want to get it on your hands tho.
dynamite = Nobel's brand of nitroglycerine in clay explosive. Other people made similar, out of other kinds of clay, using wood pulp as binder, etc. No one makes much use of dynamite anymore; Commercial blasting explosives are all TNT, nitrostarch, or nitrogel.
The military makes extensive use of TNT still, as well as things like RDX in a plastic binder. Things aren't terribly simple, for example your average munition might have nitrostarch, picric acid and TNT in it.
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