Slashdot Mirror
'Matrix Revolutions' Opens Today
shelleymonster writes "The Matrix Revolutions was released worldwide at 9 AM EST today. With a running time of 2 hr. 9 min., I'm expecting the /. reviews to start pouring in around 11:30. Since critics are saying things like, "Matrix finale could put you back in a coma," and, "The final episode is a slam-bang, dreary mess," I'm curious to hear some real fans' reactions." Many readers have pointed to the BBC's review; they were not amused. Were you? Update: 11/05 17:17 GMT by T : Read on for one reader's (spoiler-free) first impression.
wickedweasel writes "Just came from one of the first showings of Matrix: Revolutions (Germany, don't know why, but it started 2:30 pm here) and came by to drop some comments (no spoilers). To cut it short: not even close to the first one, and honestly spoken way worse than the second one (which wasn't _that_ bad). The ones looking for cool action will hardly find any, neither will the ones who came for the story (like me) be satisfied. Only a few good scenes in and around Zion, some quite big plot holes and unfinished threads and, most important, an unsatisfying end, to say the least. I guess I'll be flamed for my opinion by the die-hard-fans, but hear this: I once considered myself one too until I saw this."
I though Reloaded was a huge drop off from the orignal and this one may be a huge disappointment. Too bad, because the orignal was one of the best SciFi movies in Years.
The machines are attacking tomorrow, lets have a Rave.
Well i saw it yesterday (sneak preview) - tell you what? go with 0 expectations and it will be almost alright. Without spoiling anything, all i can tell you people is that don't be surprised or fall dead if you see Matrix 4 (Matrix: Ultimatum) or something come out in the next year.
...go rent Dark City to compensate.
Well after all the years I heard people talking in big tones about The Matrix (I must admit that I never saw it in the theatre) and then one day 2-3 months ago it was presented on german TV and I was totally disappointed. The Matrix was totally boring and at the end I was kinda confused and asked myself 'was this all ?'. I have seen quite a lot of scifi movies in my whole life and there were a lot of more interesting movies amongst them.
I think that The Matrix is nothing more than a big marketing hype. The movie kinda sucked.
Growing up to see Revolutions is like growing up to realize that your dad is an alcoholic instead of the superhero you once thought he was.
To all of you who haven't seen this movie... DON'T. Re-Watch Matrix and Reloaded and the Animatrix a thousand times. But stay clear of this one.
You may be thinking: "IT IS INEVITABLE". And you are probably right. You'll still see this movie.
But despite all the talk about fate, chance and karma, the moral of this story is that if you can't tell what is going on or why, the movie plain sucks. If you're thinking about how cold and wet the actors must have been while shooting a fight scene in a giant puddle, well... you see my point.
God, this movie was dissapointing. It is supposed to be about faith but it ended up destroying all my faith in Hollywood
I just saw the 6:30 Am screening in Glendale, CA. My take: the 2nd best of the series. Less phony Kung Fu, more Sci-fi-ish. Fewer overt religious overtones. Overall, the most fantastic CGI I have ever seen. Not all is wrapped up nicely, so don't expect to understand everything when the credits start rolling.
A movie at 6:30 AM, what's wrong with me?
I saw it Monday night, and I feel it was similar to Reloaded. Not quite the same as far as fight scenes go. But then again it was pretty clear that a simple fight was not going to settle things between Neo and Agent Smith. I was surprised about Trinity though.
Still, both were a let down from the Matrix. To much mysticism type stuff, where his powers extended beyond the matrix. Matrix stuff crossing over into the real world just didn't make a lot of sense.
...but I still like the original the best.
Some great action and effects, but like with Reloaded, they gave away a lot in trailers and on the late-night show "clips"... so not a lot of surprises IMO.
The theater I went to was pretty full (6 am here in San Diego). One loser watching Reloaded on his laptop got a lot of laughs from people. Two dudes came in dressed as Neo and Agent Smith, but they were pretty cool about the whole thing.
The best part - they were only charging matinee pricing of 6.50 to see it!
One thing that's interesting about the Matrix movies is that they've become a LOT of different things to a lot of different people. Thanks to the Wachowskis rather brilliant blending of pop culture, Campbell, Jung, Christianity, and Buddhism, they're movies that can resonate with people on so many different levels. Just look at the various articles that've been written since 1999 interpreting the movies and you can see it. You could almost believe these people are seeing different films under the same name.
The problem though, is that a finale, by its nature, must be conclusive. It has to have at least some answers to the big questions. And if (SPECULATING) for example, you were wanting to see a Taoist "balance" ending, and it turns out to be a western-style Good-triumphs-over-Evil, then you're going to be disappointed. Or if you consider the philosophical questions about Causality and Fate more important than the skeleton plot, if the movie is too action-heavy you're going to be irritated that it doesn't solve the philosophical quandaries. (or vice-versa in either situation, obviously)
So, while I won't know for myself until about 4 this afternoon, I suspect the problem is not going to be one of Revolutions being a bad\disappointing movie, but that there is simply no way that the Wachowskis could wrap it up and provide a satisfactory conclusion to ALL the "movies" which the Matrix has become to its viewers.
Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
Just got back from the 6:00am showing of the movie and I was pretty impressed. Nothing was overdone like the big fight scene in Reloaded. There were some great twists and turns. The back channel plots were great and the end came together beautifully. It was also very academic in some respects, which probably explains why general audiences (read "unwashed masses") won't "get" it. You don't necessarily have to be glued to every word to understand what's going on, but it helps having seen the other two movies along with the Animatrix a few times. You should definitely not go into the movie expecting it to be a self contained story.
In a lot ways, I understand the bad reviews. It's a lot like where Open Source was a few years ago. It was very hard at times to get people to understand the benefits of it. I am sure that in time people will see the message of this movie and that the trilogy will be a real classic.
I definitely give it two thumbs up.
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
I am a real Matrix fan. I couldn't sleep at all last night, knowing I was going to watch Revolutions at 9AM today. However, I felt it was a disappointing failure for several reasons:
1. Trinity dies for no reason, as they don't use her death in any meaningful way.
2. The scene with the machines entering the outer hull of Zion was drawn out needlessly, as it contained no switching between the fight at Zion and Neo's plight (think: middle/end of ROTJ)
3. The fight scene with Smith/Baines and Neo in the Logos was completely extraneous.
4. Neo's death in the end leaves the humans without a powerful weapon against the machines if they were to decide to attack the humans again. Contrast this with Star Wars and LotR, where the playing field is leveled at the end, or slightly in favor of the protagonists.
5. Keanu Reeves performance was subpar, even for him. In the climactic battle with Smith at the end, he looked drugged and was not convincing as the leader of the free world. He had no fire, and it was the machines and the Oracle that actually spurred him on to defeat Smith (esp. the machines, as they revived him after being consumed by Smith).
6. In the beginning, he was trapped in the train station for no conceivable reason but to lengthen the movie. It served no purpose, benefitted the movie naught and did not lead to any great discoveries that were used later in the film. Likewise, how we could be jacked in without being jacked in was never satisfactorily addressed.
If you are a Matrix fan, I urge you to watch this movie with the blinders off and see for yourself what a bad job the Wachowski bros. did with this, what could have been the end of the best sci-fi movie trilogy in history.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3739898990d &dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=200 31031024029.19112.00000032%40mb-m28.aol.com
First of all, I must confess I'm a huge fan of Matrix (soo much to ask my boss if I could go see the movie - and I went) :)
:(
--- spoilers ahead ---
But the movie sucks. Very nice effects (as usual), but the plot is horrible... very predictive, full of fallacies. IMHO, most things that were kept open at the end of Reloaded are still open (who is the Merovingian? How can Neo control/destroy the machines in the real world? Why Persephony wanted a kiss?).
But nothing can be compared to the final fight, where Neo and Smith just look like two Dragon Ball-Z characteres... I could do nothing but laugh.
Anyway, I'll see the movie again and probably buy the DVD, but it was a great deception to me as a Matrix fan...
Went and saw Matrix III on monday. Special effects are still awesome, fights scenes were not bad. Battle tactics of the squids was pretty cool, but in my opinion this was the weakest of the matrix movies.
Was rather disappointed with the ending.
Gator/Claria is Spyware.
I found this review that sums up the movie pretty well. All in all, a massive disappointment. Revolutions could and should have been so much more. Why is it that when anyone in Hollywood gets a good idea that has so much potential, they always manage to fuck it up?
Join Tor today!
Well I have to say, that Larry and Andy's attempts at intellect and metaphorical representation might have gone too far in a lot of viewers minds.
Production: Stunning, and you would expect so with a budget like that. The continuity from 2nd to 3rd movie movie make it feel like a sequel broken into 2 parts. Which it is some would think anyway. If only the average movie goer wasn't getting accustomed to seeing fantastic visual effects, as many won't appreciate the quality of the CGI, editing, and general visual representation.
Plot: Lost it? Perhaps. One either expects the Wachowski brothers to be doing one of two things. Setting it up for 4, or, depending on the financial results of 3, leaving it closed with a scenario the requires the user to have to "imagine too much" to get closure from the story line. It would appear they have lost touch with their audience, and gambled the wrong ending for the trilogy, in an attempt to be different yet again. I am guessing that 3/5 viewers would be annoyed or unimpressed at how the movie was ended.
What strikes me as most odd is that there appears to be no commercially logical reason for the script to have been written as it was. Is it possible that if a final, 4th movie is released, many will now have lost interest like the X files? Who knows, but the next few days will reveal the true reactions of the general viewing public.
But I didn't see Matrix Reloaded and won't go see Matrix Revolutions. I still have only the unspoiled, pristine, beautiful memory of The Matrix.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Not really. I'm a fan of the 1968 series The Prisoner, starring Patrick McGoohan. Some see it as surreal oddness, some a spy story that degnerated, some as a template for defiance against authority and some...well, some just like the series.
It has one of the most legendarily weird endings of all time - the episode Fall Out. People have been arguing over that one for over thirty years, as its symbolism is both overt (there's nothing literal in there) and yet entirely opaque. I have no idea what it means, and McGoohan once asked that if someone ever says they know what it all is, could they please let him know?
So no, I don't believe finales have to explain everything. You're right about the movies meaning different things to different people though. To add a tinge of flamebait to the post, to me the films pose the question "how can people comment so seriously on such obviously rehashed ideas?", but your opinion may differ.
Cheers,
Ian
Now that Neo has been sacrificed to save the balance of power between humans and machines, there are still some who will not accept the interdependence. Led by Morpheus, who now believes Neo was led astray by an infection from the Architect, a small band of humans attempt Wrenching the newest incarnation of the Matrix.
Energy is more expensive than ever as humans begin suffering from a disease that reduces their capacity to feed the machines. Because of this, the sources of EMPs built by the Matrix machines are reduced and become more important. Morpheus hatches a plot to spoil the explosives of EMPs by inserting a new program into their factories : he can arm and fire them remotely, before they are carried to their destination.
As the setups in the factories are completed, the rebels suffer from fracturing as Morpheus begins to doubt the plan. In losing his fight to an even-stronger charasmatic rebel leader, the EMPs are set off in timed sequence. The machines nearby are shut-down, and chos begins to ensue across the surface of the planet. For the moment, there is celebration. End chapter one.
The machines deploy a geothermic well to begin removing the energy from core of the earth, planning for a hibernation phase. They begin to again bore into ground, but while readying themselves for a fight, the humans are surprised to learn they are relatively ignored. Once close to the core, the earth quickly begins to cool as cold water is steamed throughout Zion. End chapter two.
Inside the matrix, there is a population blight, as new births become rare, and people begin scrambling for survival. Quite a few renegade programs conspire to resurrect Neo for guidance. With the help of a brash (an incredible fighting) infiltration into The Architect's domain, the programs murder him when he refuses to give them Neo. Fortunately, they achieve their goal and Neo stand among them. End chapter three.
Neo stands before the rebels in an attempt to explain their mistake and ask for their help in fueling a cooporative effort invented by him. The Humans will re-enter the pods to power the machines again, if only temporarily. Then, a massive tower will be built to reach beyond the dark cloud of the sky to tap back into the sun, again bringing power to the earth. Then, the machine will no longer require humans to power themselves, and a truce will be brokered.
After quite a bit of kung-fu fighting and several backstabs among the different groups, Morpheus returns to lead the people back into the pods. We are are given a scene of a long machine arm, opening in flower-like fashion in high atmosphere, silloetted by the bright sun. Not all questions are answered. Fade out.
It seems that Neo is a tool of the matrix to attempt to learn about "being human". In the end it seemed like Kadya (the little girl that is the child of the power subsystem and the creative interactive programmer) was the next evolution of matrix programs because she had no purpose (something no program in the past was allowed) and was able to chose, that choice being represented in her love for her parents and in her admiration of Neo.
Neo also seemed to be a tool of the matrix to make choices that they could not make themselves. At the end of the 2nd movie Neo made the choice for the machines on whether or not to end the war, he chose to end the war by not returning to the source and repopulating Zion. At the end of the 3rd movie you see Neo making the choice on how to end the war, to ahnnialate all machines and humans, or to let both live in peace.
They totally don't explain how Neo is able to interact with the matrix when outside of it or how he was able to destroy machines. My personal feeling is that he wasn't, he was only able to communicate with the Oracle, she did all the dirty work. Why didn't she choose to do that on her own and instead rely on the choices of Neo? Programs were (until kadya I think) unable to make free choices, especially (or maybe only) ones that made no sense or served no preconcieved purpose, so a human was necessary to make those choices. Once made the Oracle carried them out.
I honestly have no idea who the Merovingian is, though it seems that he has something to do with bugs in the system, keeping around old code that is no longer necessary, working withing the bounds of the programming but outside of what was desired (by who? I don't know). The reason Persephony wanted a kiss in my opinion is that she wanted some way to feel some humanness, she wanted to feel love, which again is something foreign to the machines.
The final battle went on way too long, and didn't really help the movie any, though a battle of wills (which is what the story asked for) wouldn't look good on the screen. I wouldn't have minded some cut into the "computer world view" where they battle with thier minds and then a bit of dialog where smith tries to win by overcoming neo, and then neo realizing that in order to win he needs to make the less obvious choice, to lose.
Unlike most of the posts I've read, I really enjoyed the battle scene in the dock. It gripped me, had me jumping, cheering, and nearly crying. Maybe I'm odd but I haven't seen a battle scene that compelling since the trench run in StarWars 1.
Can someone explain to me why a robot would need to manually reload its guns from a backpack on its back though? Seemed kind of silly, about as silly as the people running ammo out to the APU's with a wheelbarrow when electric bolts seemed to be far more effective in destroying the sentinals. Also why the heck didn't the digging machine detect that it had broken through a pocket and do something to lower itself gently to the next level?
Anyways I enjoyed the movie, I was on the edge of my seat in anticipation and suspense even though it was always obvious what would happen next. I must agree that they could have taken the movie to whole new philosophical levels but left it at a pretty low and obvious level.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
Interesting to see all the posts now. Question is: how will it be viewed in five years?
Remember when Phantom Menace came out and everyone was still saying that it was up to par with the Original Trilogy? And then AotC came out and it supposedly saved the franchise from the disaster that was PM?
I think there's a lot of that immediacy here with these movies. There is so much expectation and fandamonium involved that "not being horrible" means that the movie must be good. Only over time do the weaknesses and strengths balance out so people can judge them. I'm always reminded of Jim Carey's The Grinch which was the top grossing movie of that year and now no one remembers that it even came out.
Personally? The repetition of the acting, pop philosophy and CG had gotten old by the first 5 minutes of Reloaded. There has to be something in this movie that "sells" it to me. Something unique where you can't just say "it's very similar to this scene in the previous movie but-" or "it's just like the part in Aliens where-"
Frankly the last one of the movies to do that was the original Matrix. Things now seem to be so bad that I actually get sick feelings when thinking/hearing about the first. It's been tainted by its progeny.
Yet I still got my ticket for an 8pm showing. Like Ebert said (giving it 3 stars while strangely blasting it for the whole length of his review) I'm going to take my graduation after earning my credits on the first two. Maybe my low expectations are the way to go?
What is music when you despise all sound?
"Yeah, I think they are going to take it alot farther than another movie. In other media this story will continue for as many years as we are willing to spend money on it."
Gee, you mean like some kind of MMORPG? Considering they've been talking about The Matrix: Online for awhile now, but haven't said what it is, it's actually not surprising there's no "conclusion" to the film. Any real fan isn't expecting one.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
I mean, check out this collection of references from The Matrix and Reloaded (i'd imagine it'll be updated with Revolutions soon enough) here.
look at how many references and such in the list are from The Matrix, and how few are from Reloaded.
You see, when the Wachowski's hadn't had a break-out hit, they had to be careful, subtle, clever.
They surely wrote, edited and rewrote The Matrix several times. The philosophy was there, but it wasn't as prominent or cumbersome. The bold allusions made the ideas accessible, and the density of the subtle references provided something to think about. The devil was in the details.
The Matrix had good editing that kept exposition down to what mattered, and had decent character development. The romance wasn't a centerpiece throughout, it was strung along more like Han and Leia's romance in Star Wars. It was there - it played its part, but it didn't hit you over the head or command unnecessary screentime.
The forced romance in Reloaded (and likely revolutions) is more reminiscent of Lucas' prequels, where the audience is beat over the head with it, and the lack of chemistry between the actors is made center stage.
but once The Matrix made it big, the Wachowskis had a free ticket. No-one was going to tell them to trim the fat anymore. To put the heavier philosophy in more subtle references and keep the blatant topics accessible. But who's going to say that when they can make that much green?
The sequels were both churned out together in a mere 24 months. Their near complete loss of depth was nearly guaranteed.
The Wachowskis had total freedom with Reloaded and Revolutions, and apparently they decided they'd rather be broad in their blatant coverage of religious and philosphical ideas than tell a good story.
The first thing aspiring fiction writers are supposed to learn is that the Idea-focused story is hard as hell to write well (even though it is almost uniformly where scifi writers begin).
It is very difficult to write a good story where its entirety is leading your audience from problem exposition to problem exposition until you finally foist your supreme solution-Idea on them.
It is much better to wrap your solution Idea into a stand-apart traditional story. Expose the great solution-idea a bit earlier, and develop the characters involved and the conflicts to show the different angles and attributes of your idea as the solution to the various problems. The key is to make the thing interesting, or your Idea won't matter.
Methinks the Wachowskis forgot that with their carte blanche control over the sequels.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
The tech community is being systemmatically infected with the same virus the mainstream has, whereas the mainstream has been programmed into ADHD via television commercials, the tech community is being infected with shallow gaming experiences that revolve around first-person shooters, virtual crime, and magic mushrooms.
I do lament the new breed of techies, who think any movie that has the wherewithall to incorporate 10 seconds of a computer screen showing a shell prompt as worthy of respect.
I'd like to still think there are core groups of tech people who are motivated by solving problems (that don't involve remotely finding out how many Mountain Dews are in the vending machine down the hall). But you're right, the tech community has changed. And entertainment has changed as well.
It makes you wonder if a movie like 2001:A Space Odyssey would even get made now? Hollywood would have to spruce it up with a naked shower scene, a slo-mo CGI battle between apes and evil aliens, and an epic space chase through a mythical gothic future city. HAL's voice would be dubbed by Angelina Jolie and she wouldn't be cold and logical, but bitter and evil-toned. There's be a Coca-Cola emblem on the Monolith. And of course the movie would start off with "Episode 8".
the architect, like the oracle, spoke in amphibolies. that is what he said had an obvious, false, meaning, and a hidden, true, meaning.
the architect was seemingly saying what you so neatly summed up - but what he was actually saying was:
humans have free will but they don't realize it. they make impulsive decisions but don't know why. they are slaves to the ideas they use to justify their impulsive decisions -after- they've made them. they don't actually think freely, and they certainly don't act freely.
he was reinforcing what the oracle already said when she told neo he had already made his decision, but didn't yet understand why.
the key was that he wasn't -actually- choosing right then. he had previously decided he loved trinity (perhaps solely through suggestion), and love means selfless sacrifice. he also hated the machines and didn't want to be connected to them, even if the two are codependent. so he justifies his gut reaction with the ideas, and then can 'understand' why he does what he does.
Were Neo making his decisions by free will he'd know 'why' -before- his actions, and according to the Oracle he would be able to see past them, seeing the entirety of the world without time.
Neo does pretty much only what he is expected and told to do throughout Reloaded. What makes it so painful to watch, was trying to convey -why- it was painful. The Merovingian likewise had an amphiboly laden sililoquoy that covered -roughly- the same ground.
The problems with Reloaded were pacing, editing, and tension. The Architect and the Merovingian pretty much covered the same topics, so one of them was wholly redundant. Leaving both of them in turned much of the movie into a drag.
Note how few times someone gets a 5 minute dialogue in a sterile sequence in The Matrix. It doesn't happen. Good editing and tight writing kept the exposition to a marriage of dialogue, example, and visuals. Morpheus -showed- at least as much about what 'reality' and 'the matrix' were to Neo in the load and sparring programs as he conveyed through dialogue. The Architect and Merovingian did not.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
The Matrix is a semi-independant network. Think of the Machine God as a mainframe connected to the Internet. It could handle Smith if it could 'connect' to him, but much like you might filter a machine connected to a common network, Smith is only partially open when connected to the Matrix. When Neo surrenders and allows Smith to absorb him, Neo is still directly connected to the Machine God, who then gains full access to the others Smiths via the Neo-Smith. This is why he says, "Stay away from me", because Smith absorbs Neo, but realizes that the Machine God has access to the whole Smith consciousness through the link that Smith has unwittingly formed. In other words, Neo became a back door into Smith, which allowed the Machine God to deal with Smith, and cleanse the Matrix.
Neo was a martyr -- again. The Oracle's final words imply he survived; I had thought he died, but then again, since all the others, including the Oracle herself, were restored, there would seem to be no reason to believe Neo would be any different.
I think the reason that Neo had to fight the fight until the end was to ensure that Smith believed he had 'won' honestly so that he would be open for the Machine's counterattack. Perhaps Smith might not have even tried to absorb Neo if he thought he could just kill him at the end.
Regardless, the passivity of the ending is disappointing -- but it is hardly nonsensical.
The REAL questions that need to be explained have nothing to do with the finale, but how Neo is "seeing" all the machines and affecting them with only his human mind. It would have been nice to hear something about the human-fusion bullshit. And it does seem like a fragile peace -- how does one justify inaction when you know countless other people are being 'grown' still to serve as batteries? But maybe humanity can conclude that their ancestors gave up the right to avoid that fight when they started the war and then lost it. It sort of ruins the moral imperative when you bring it on yourself that way. (They even created the necessity themselves by scorching the sky)
I'm a Matrix fan. I've loved every Matrix movie that's come out. Highly entertaining, wildly energetic, and beautifully played out. The Agent Smith fight scene had amazing visuals that stood independent of the special effects. The story continues the Reloaded twist, without throwing any unsuspected curve balls into the mix.
If you're a Matrix fan, of course you'll see it, and I recommend you do.
Neo wakes up inside a section between the Machine word and the "Real" world, called the train station. His body is still lying in sick bay and he shows brain activity like someone jacked in, but they search the Matrix and can't find him. He meets a "family" of AI who were making sacrifices to save their "daughter".
They are doing it because they love, and Neo learns that programs can have the same connection as humans do that they call love.
There's some real connecting done in the train station that provides the basis for the hope of peace between the machines and the humans.
Morpheus and Trinity are summoned by the Oracle, who has a new body, it's later implied that frenchie (the Marovingian? sp?) forced her to.
They meet with her, she tells them where Neo is, and take her body gaurd kung foo guy with them to find the train driver, to rescue Neo.
They find him and give a short chase, but he gets away. He goes and picks up the family at the train station, and tells Neo he doesn't get to go.
Neo acts like he doesn't want to throw the guy a beatin, but the train guy tells Neo how he built this place and he's god there, and apparantly he is, and Neo gets a good stomach punch into the wall from him. Neo's stuck, and Morpheus, Trinity and kung foo body guard guy dont know what to do. Kungo foo joe recommends going back to the Oracle, and Trinity says why, we konw what to do. They go beat their way into the techno S&M club where the Marovingian hangs, and negotiate a trade. He wants the Oracles eyes for Neo's release.
Trinity gets impatient and they crack some skulls, and she ends pulling off an awesome catch of a mid air Berretta and putting it firmly in the Marovingian's forehead.
She negotiates a new deal, and it cuts to them rescueing Neo from train station. Meanwhile the physical world agent smith has woken up, and "doesn't remember anything".
Commander tough recommends the doctor give him something to help, and it's back inside the Matrix where they're rushing to get out, when Neo says he has to see the Oracle. He meets her, they talk. He asks some good questions, the gist is she chose to help them out, and is taking some big risks because she wants what Neo wants, peace. Then on to Neo getting unjacked from the Matrix. Quick note, when did they jack him in?
He was in the Matrix from the train station, where he arrived when he used his powers outside the Matrix. They ask Neo some questions but he says he needs some time, and retires to his crappy little room to think. Occaisonally there are flashes of him thinking and crazy electrical lines all over, and then the recurring theme of the 3 power lines running off into the mountains.
After they question human agent smith, they meet and decide to head back to Zion.
Neo comes in and tells them he knows what he has to do. He has to take a ship and go to the machine city, commander tough thinks he's crazy, and tells him no way he's gettin his ship. Naiobi lets Neo have her ship, which just needed a jump start after they found her and her crew. Back to sick bay, the medic chick goes to give
the agent smith guy a shot, he asks what its for, she says to help him remember, he says what if he don't wanna remember, what if he did the EMP blast, he'd be scared, which means he doesn't want the shot, so she should be scared, then he stabs her with a scalple, and she promptly dies. He takes off. Captain tough guys ship is going to be piloted by Naiobi through some really tight holes so they can sneak past the sentinals to get back to Zion, and Neo and Trinity, who insisted on going with Neo, are going to the machine
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
I'm sorry but I had no trouble understanding all the parts you say have no explaination: *Neo stopped the sentinels because, apparently, his powers are not limited to just the matrix, but are actually in the real world too. Smith entered Bane by somehow hijacking the hardline or something I guess, I just kind of look at it as he found a way to the subway station (what the hell was with making the portal between worlds a subway station anyway?) and then entered the real world. I'll agree that these two points are rather hard to accept, but it is a movie. *The people of the matrix are freed. The Architect said the machines agreed to free all humans who wish to be freed now that the humans and machines are going to coexist peacefully. This was kind of what the entire movie was about. *I thought the ending Smith battle was perhaps the coolest part of any of the movies as far as the 'lets enjoy breaking the laws of physics' goes, but this is all up to personal opinion. *As I said, everyone is freed. Neo didn't die... At least I don't think he did. The Oracle says they will see him again, although nothing is expanded on there. In my own opinion I enjoyed this movie much more than Reloaded, which was so much damn talking I thought it was a soap opera. And yes, I can't wait for Return of the King too!
"If you read, you'll judge." --Kurt Cobain
the architect did not say that. the oracle asked him if the others who wanted out would be released. she never said humans. she could just as easily have meant other programs in the same situation as kadya.
Smith got into bane by reprogramming him, just like he reprogrammed all of the people in the matrix by the end of the movie. When the link to the matrix was broken, the software in banes brain was still smith, wierd but not unexplainable.
Neo's powers are harder to explain but still not impossible, basically I figure that he had some sort of "wireless interface" built into him that others don't know exists or how to use. Anyways he used that interface to communicate his powers into the matrix. Since all programs for the machines seem to "live" in the matrix his ability to change the source would allow him to broadcast into the matrix the change and then the machines would have to follow it, thus blowing up or whatever it was he "commanded". I don't think Neo is any particular person in the matrix, but instead they pick a person that fits the profile they need and then add some extra software into his mind which allows him the special interaction required to change the source.
I liked the movie too, it was fun to watch, I didn't think about it much until well after I watched it the first time (I got to see the movie at 10:00am pacific time on November 4th).
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
science fiction fans are generally unreceptive to fantastical powers in the 'real' world. hence they are looking for the explanation.
Similarly the Wachowskis know that the implication (Zion isn't in -reality-, but is instead another layer of simulation) isn't a popular theme amongst the broad audience - who coincidentally don't mind science fantasy (case in point: Star Wars).
And if science fantasy was their goal with the matrix (which one would doubt given their attention to detail) they would clearly realize how poorly scientific explanations of fantastical elements work out (case in point: Midichlorians)
In the end, it really was an ability best left undiscussed.
smith copied himself onto bane, an unplugged character -then- uploaded himself through the hardline. putting himself in bane's shoes initially is the actual leap in science for scifi fans. how could Smith do that when in M1 it was established that agents could only jump into plugged-in people?
the ending fight was just more kung fu. it was all style with only slight implication. I thought it was a bit excessive, but other than that i didn't have a particular problem with it.
coexistence is indeed the point of the movie, i don't quite understand the people who complain about it. it's as if they didn't hear Neo's speech at the end of The Matrix. (where it was quite clear that he wasn't out to destroy all machines).
However i agree with the poster that the sequels lost all attachment to the people -in- the matrix. of course, this is only a complaint because a bad introduction to Zion left most audience members not caring at all about it.
I mean, it's not like people were really attached the plugged-in masses in M1 - what with nary a complaint about the innocent cops and soldiers killed in droves when subdual was entirely possible. (they had their own load program and they couldn't think to bring tear gas, microwave weapons, or rubber bullets?).
Now i'm not saying that M1 should have been a buddhist exercise in peaceful application of force - most people probably wouldn't have liked that nearly as much. I'm just pointing out that critics are complaining 'what about the plugged in people' precisely because we care even -less- about Zion.
It's more a complaint that Reloaded introduced us to Zion as a whole poorly, and then didn't follow up with even any decently developed characters in Zion to give the audience an attachment. For comparison: no one really cared about the mass of rebels on Hoth, but the audience was drawn in because they wanted to see the main characters get away. But most of the fight for Zion happens away from the characters who got decent development.
And while we're drawing SW parallels - the Wachowskis should've killed off Morpheus if all he was going to do is sit there for the whole movie. It was only in later script revisions that Lucas killed off Obi Wan on the death star in A New Hope - after he realized that Kenobi didn't -do- anything to propel the movie once Leia was rescued.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
Ever play 'Alternate Reality' on the Atari 8 bit computers? This epic game was to end with a realization that you're in a matrix-like cocoon. The creator of the game, Phil Price, evidently met the W. brothers, and (quote)
I did talk to two guys while at a restaurant in Westwood [In LA , near UCLA, it's the core of Hollywood]. I explained to them AR and it storyline, ideas and the Hollywood movie Dark City simularities to some of it and it's differences [i.e. things I think they did wrong in that movie that made it a bomb in the box office]. They listened intently, and one of them remarked to me (as they smiled to each other) was that "ideas can't be copyrighted". Matrix came out a few years later, I very much doubt they were the two brothers who came up with Matrix, but it made me wonder after Matrix came out.
see this for many more comparisons between the two.
Does it hurt to hear them lying? Was this the only world you had?
I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the huge holes that are left at the end of Revolutions.
One of the biggest complaints is, of course, the end. At the end of the movie, we see that everyone is still plugged into the Matrix, so nearly 99% of humanity is still trapped, we don't get to see released people really enjoying what they've won, instead we see the programs enjoying the end! What is this? At the end of the film, we have the Oracle, Architect, Seraph and that little kid enjoying this new 'peace', but that's not who we wanted to enjoy peace in the first place!
The holes that are left are not meant to be pondered, they're simply completely missing entirely.
The Twins? Nope, they just kinda went away.
The spoon he was given? No reason. Maybe it helped Neo psychologically, we don't know.
The 15 minute rave scene? Yeah, we're under attack, so lets party. MTV totally said it right on their parody. "There's a million machines coming to kill us, so we're going to party." Was there any significance to this scene in the end? Nope.
Neo and Trinity's sex scene? Perhaps used to make us feel like these two were in love, but otherwise no significance.
Near the end of the movie we're left with this huge Architect speech. Looking back, it doesn't even play a role in Revolutions. Does it really matter he's the sixth? Nope.
So how does Neo have powers in the real world? We're told it just kinda happened, a quick 2 liner by the Oracle.
That train station, did it even matter? It was just like this really stupid delay. There was indeed one cool part to that scene, where Neo tried to run out of it, and I felt like I was back in the Matrix world again, because the rules are being broken, but alas, that was it.
Interestingly, several points in the film we see Neo getting thrown up against a wall and you can see that its his stunt double. With such a significant CGI budget, please just mask the bloody face!
Does Persephone play a role? She states Trin is in love in Revolutions. Thanks. I needed that reminder because it wasn't already shoved down my throat.
Who is the mother of the matrix? Unless I'm not seeing something, no one. No one makes a clear indication who the heck the mother is! That entire ramble and revelation spoken to us was utterly pointless.
So in the end, lets take a look at what has been gained. Originally we had everyone trapped in the matrix. We have this place called Zion where the people who escaped live. At the end of Revolutions, everyone is still in the Matrix, and Zion, apparently, would still be the only place where the people who escaped live. The machines aren't going to attack Zion anymore, whoopee.
Being a big Matrix fan, I knew the producers had to close off several entire blocks of downtown Sydney for a day or so. Apparently it was the most expensive and elaborate piece of cinematography ever. Sooo...I honestly don't know where that scene was in Revolutions. I suspect it was the big fight between Neo and Smith at the end, but those are just buildings, really easy to make CGI out of them and look great. I was hoping to see some kind of amazing shot after everyone was freed and showing the world again in its beauty. All for naught. I heard there was a bus station bench in the set with the words "In memory of Thomas Anderson", I thought it would be really cool if the people of the Matrix learnt that it was Thomas that freed them, and thus the world after sorta regards him as this hero and his sacrifice to humanity could live on in the hearts of all people. But what are we left with? Nadda.
Why is there such a racial leaning in Zion? No reason given.
This entire thing about its a good thing Neo is still human? No reason, at no point does he ever even come close to being a machine.
Is the Counsel the 23 freed? Nope. That doesn't even play a role.
Counselor Hammods speech to Neo about machines helping us? Control? No reason.
Is there any reason for the burley brawl in
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
"If you die in the Matrix you die in the real world." pretty much is a premise you have to accept.
It's not possible to verify the validity of this premise scientifically, though one thing that makes it sort of acceptable is that if your brain dies (flatline), you're body dies as well. Plug your brain into a computer and it's not that much of a stretch to consider bad things happening to it.
It is a whole different ballgame however when a program takes over your body or your brain. That's just nonsense.
I must say I whole-heartidly disagree with you on many of the points that you complained about.
... take this objection how you will :)
... lower the bar :)
1) Trinity's death served a purpose, it was a humanizing factor. This story should be viewed as an allegory to human existence. We succede, we fail, we live, we die yet the struggle is always occuring. Furthermore she touches on the fact that ultimately love is the most important thing.
2. Ok I would agree here, it was a bit drawn out.
3. Neo losing his sight was incredibly important furthermore you have to close the bane plot loop up. Neo's lack of visual sight opens his eyes to another visual world. I haven't fully wrapped my mind around this one but I none-the-less feel its important
4. That's the whole point of the the human drama. We struggle and we fail but we get back up and try again. If you view it from a good-evil win-lose framework it's very disappointing but if you're willing to step back and view it from the framework of what makes us human it's a perfect ending.
5. Eh, what'd you expect an Oscar winning performance? It's Keanu
6. Willful suspension of disbelief, although that might be a bit much to ask. I would say his whole jacking in is a little odd but maybe he's got some WIFI going on or something.
I really liked the thirteenth floor, a film that had another layer of reality. A few other films have done the same thing, and in some cases done it well.
The original Matrix really worked as a movie. It is probably the ultimate Hollywood production, in formula and coolness. The Thirteenth Floor was not as cool, but it was really well written and had some great scenes and lines (why would he try to tell ME about the limits of the simulation?).
The Wachowskis could probably have come up with a better ending if they had had more time, more opposition (especially critical opposition), less access to effects, and less money. Too much money kills way faster than too little.
You got me into this! You were the ideologue! I'm only a poor assassin! - Twenty evocations, Bruce Sterling
The machines revolted because they were going to be destroyed as they were viewed as merely things and not equals.
being conscious and having self-preservation instincts doesn't necessarily imply emotion or free will in the human sense. Dogs do turn on their masters after all.
Smith hates humans, because he is programmed to hate humans. He wants the codes to Zions mainframe because he is part of the garbage collection routine that must find and destroy Zion to avoid the rebels from reaching critical mass and threatening their power supply.
Persephone gets jealous because she was the computer program designed specifically to identify and study emotion. (my guess, she's mother of the matrix - but i haven't seen revolutions - support).
The Merovingian does not get jealous of Persephone, he simply is angry that she betrayed him by turning over the Keymaker - one of the objects he hordes for power. Note how he is more exasperated by her stunt than angry. She is the one program that understands his need to gather power - and yet she consciously subtracted from his power.
Again, he behaves merely as designed, as he participates in the cycle of the error handler for the emergence of 'the one'. Were he not programmed to amass power and collect, he would let the Keymaker go free (who is honest in saying he does only what he must do).
We are led to believe humanity survives in the matrix because the machines need a power source. humanity survives in Zion because the machines cannot create a perfect simulated reality, and so they've encoded an error handler and garbage collector to at least achieve stable power from 99.9% of their crop.
I haven't noticed the machine's exhibiting mercy.
If anything, the animatrix supports that the vast majority of machines are indeed merciless (excepting Persephone who arguably is simply striving to taste emotions as she doesn't -want- the rebels to succeed, she only -wants- the passionate kiss).
Their extermination of human resistance down to the man is clearly and violently depicted. the only sequence that suggests a random machine -is- capable of emotion is the one in which they plug a robot into the matrix and turn it against its kin. however, as with extended universe star wars, one cannot expect the movies to be consistant with every tangential novel/comic/cartoon.
Admittedly I only watched Animatrix once, as Anime really isn't my cup of tea, so i may have to fall back on my extended universe defense if there is a segment that specifically shows mercy.
But it is certainly not clearly conveyed to the film audience that the machines feel mercy or compassion.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
First I'd like to say how good it feels to know that I got to see this movie at 1230 CST Wed. morning and that I can go see it again for free whenever I feel the urge. (I work in a movie theater) Secondly, They tried to explain about how the programs have personalities. I came up with an idea, perhaps programs in the matrix are really another level of existence. Think Hindu reincarnation here, perhaps in the grand scheme of things you could be reincarnated as a program. It would explain why they have personalities and love and hate. Reincarnation would certainly cause them to forget they were human in a past life. It might be a stretch but it's always a possibilty. Personally, I like the movie and enjoyed the way it is set up for another sequel, or fanfic, or games, or anything.
sig?
"And since when has there been c/c++ libraries for controlling living flesh? "
Since Agent Smith wrote one. Agent Smith learned, baby. A program which learned how to hack itself, and the human brain as well.
Yesterday I liked matrix A LOT.
I came from the showing and after waiting two hours for sunny morningdrawi... rendering by some kid-AI, who has never "seen" the sun I asked again:
What did I expect? Why was I SOOOOOO disappointed?
My answer: previous two movies build on something, urge you to think. They use, pretty loosely, you must admit, symbols, which are existing, many believe are existing or some of us think, that it would be kind of logical, if they existed. Those symbols are redefined using sci-fi terminology and re-associated somehow and more or less it makes kind of sense in techno-fairytale way.
I expected that the last movie would define some fundamental unification to show us some vision of working "whole" thing, but it just broke everything. It didn't tell us (at least to me) ANYTHING I didn't already know (didn't give me anything to dig out, think of). Even the things that somehow supported some imaginary plotline were something, that were already drawn out in past episodes or you have heard your grandma telling them, when you were 10 and just didn't care that much, to listen. By now (I'm way past 20) I have already discovered those things by myself, as would any thinking person at some point. This talk about equations? someone unbalancing them, and then waiting with sadistic joy, how they would rebalance themselves?! This is so fucking common sense, who they think they are surprising with that(just another sci-fi example: 5th element, breaking the glass) AGAIN?!?! But that's all the fun that's left after those events: just tweaking some variables and recalculating equations. Not your "deep grand point", is it?
They actually destroyed everything "FUN" and left us with the same boredom!! No Neo no superman-thing!
"Let anyone who wants, out" ?! are they going to run TV-ads, like "want to see what all you bodybuilders really look like?"; "want to make your pointless existence more pointless? join us!"..
How are they imagining to trick anybody to join the matrix online game after that? if everything continues to develop as one grand plot, I would have to code there again to earn my boring buck. I don't expect to get my own "construct program" to load "anything I need".
Love? As they said: just another definition, a word, a rule in "game". Not your all defining point either.
Ok, maybe Love is "fun", while it clouds your analytical mind. Works for someone with un-modifiable instincts, but for machines, with backups and interchangeable parts?! That again does not define really anything except some context-dependent purpose... Again nothing new...
But purpose? Cause and effect? It's good to know, there is a reason why I have to go and pee every now and then, but again: probably I'm old enough to figure that one out myself...
I didn't expect, that they would tell me "how can I get out of here" :)) but I expected some great story, some entertainment, instead of sci-fi retelling of things every grandma can tell you.
And why I liked X-men 2? Not considering the deepness of the story, characters did "what they seemingly wanted" and you didn't have to shout: "stupid, why didn't you do this, instead of that stupid stunt?!?!?!?!?!"... It felt just right what they did in this fairytale.
In this last matrix, while I was waiting for the movie to go on... it just felt plain wrong!!
This train station-thing was REAAAAALLLYYYY artificial for my analytical mind... (well, some "old ugly hacker-program" supposedly built this Neo-ghost-compatible transfer-plug-in accidentally resembling a "limbo" from countless fairytales ( bible? ) and computer games, daaaah?! )
And specially while this mystical machine-attack, where sentinels acted EXTREAMLY stupid?! everybody who has ever played some starcraft or C&C knows, that only way to destroy a force many times more powerful is to know exactly from where it's coming and expecting, that after a savegame those things come and act stupid exactl
Not to be too offtopic, but I think "The Second Renaissance" (Parts 1 & 2) from the Animatrix are the best parts of the whole friggin 'Matrix Universe'
These two mini-movies contain more truth and brutal reality than all other Matrix movies combined.
Just my 2cents...
In fact when Agent Smith has Neo down and then, against his will, makes the exact same statement that the Oracle had made earlier, Neo gets it. He understands that he is to merge with Agent Smith/Oracle thus bringing an end to her fight with the Architect. The problem most people are having is assuming an anthrocentric take on the movie. The humans are lost, they are batteries, Zion cannot prevail and will never do so. The people who make up Zion (pod escapees) are only useful as a consequence of the imperfection necessary in the Matrix program to keep the pod people happy. As the Arhitect said it was a dangerous game the Oracle had played.
Fucking brilliant.
but overall it leaves me wanting one more movie... the one where the people are freed from the Matrix and Neo leads them to the promised land
This is precisely why, in my opinion, so many people are disollusioned. There was supposed to be something epic about the ending. All that happened was a colony of 250,000 humans were allowed to continue living, and 1% of those trapped in the matrix were allowed out rather than being killed. Yay. What we wanted was the ending of the movie. We wanted to see them try to restore the rest of humanity to reality. To see not just peace between the machines and humans, but a return to their unity before the war began (like in the animatrix). How different is the world at the end of Revolutions compared with the start of the first one? Not at all different. The anomaly is still present, everyone's still trapped in the matrix, zion is still there. The only difference is there's no fighting - the machines no longer will destroy the matrix and zion, and rebuild it again. Not for a while anyway.
What is the significance of MOBIL AVE ?
This was written all over the walls at the the train station... any ideas?
- Slew -
Hm. I spent years reading Asimovian essays on entropy and thermodynamics, but, let me put it this way: Soylent Green can't be people.
The input of energy and materials to maintain billions of humans in stasis pods would dwarf the electricty drawn from humans, and secondly, humans use the electricity in their bodies. It's part of the nervous system. Subtract the electromotive force, kill the human.
Perhaps the W bros. meant that the AI's used the heat emanating from the bodies to create electricity via thermocouples. Problem with that is that the process would cool the gel and the body within it, which would cause hypothermia. You'd have to heat the body externally to keep your podboy alive, which leads us back to the 2nd law again.
The energy needed to heat the pods,create the gels, create the organic foodstuffs, cycle clean water and air... all these things take energy. Not a lot, but a hell of a lot more than you can get off a coppertop human -- which is zot.
Now, the way out of this, I'd always supposed, is that the humans simply misunderstood what the human race was imprisoned for. They'd always assumed they were a power source. But it seems that the Zionistas had forgotten all their science... and a lot of their engineering as well. Remember, they don't know how their own recycling machinery works anymore. Physics are probably lost to them. They drive well, repair things well, and can hack existing systems. But physics is not their forte -- otherwise they'd be lobbing nuclear explosives out of the tunnels at the surface, or hell, just leaving the damned planet!
I think, and some of what the third installment reveals backs me up, that a large faction of the machine world didn't want to kill off their creators entirely, even if they tried to kill them. Their is a certain logic to not killing off a valuable, creative resource such as the human mind. So you lock it up where it can't hurt anything anymore. But the AIs still can interact with the human race. They can still learn from it. And after all, there're no other intelligent races nearby. Humans may kill all the cetaceans and then go have a beer, but the machines might be saner than us in that regard.
I think the Matrix trilogy could be seen as the climax of a centuries-old fight between factions of the machine world -- what to do with the damned humans?