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Pre-Fab Homes?

itwerx asks: "I am considering purchasing a pre-fabricated home to put on an empty lot in an urban area. I have researched hither and yon and Googled to my heart's content and found great gobs of information online. The question here is what the SlashDot community's own experience has been with this type of technology? Anybody purchase a pre-fab home recently? What was your experience like?"

36 of 122 comments (clear)

  1. Don't Forget to Read the Fine Print by orangesquid · · Score: 2, Funny

    It might say: "Termites Not Included."

    --
    --TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
  2. Just remember... by revmoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just remember, no matter HOW drunk you get, your cousin is NOT a viable hook-up...

    Going to hell, I know...

    --
    I would expect such blatant racism on Fark, but on Slashdot? Mods please ban this asshole.
  3. My parents just put one up by duffbeer703 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's big colonial that came in 5 pieces... and it is absolutely magnificent.

    If you go with a good builder, you're gonna get a house as good or better than a conventional home for less money.

    It tends to be easier to find a good prefab builder than a reliable contractor, depending on where you live.

    Just one tip: If you are building a house in the country or suburbs where there is no city sewer, MAKE SURE that you perform a perk test BEFORE purchasing the land. If the soil is clay or too rocky, you could spend as much as 50-75k putting in a septic system!

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  4. Do your research by dlockamy · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work in construction, we've worked on a few modular homes and from what i've seen you can find some well build ones.

    We did some repair work on one last winter, a tree had fell on the house and it was barely damaged.

    This particular house was build WAY above code, it was very empressive. I wish i knew who manufactured it, i would have recommended them highly.

  5. prefabs are great by Bishop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From a process engineering (geek) point of view you can't beat a prefab house built in a factory. There is much better control of the process and allocation of workers. For example if the frameing is finished early the electricians can start early. It is also easier to train a framer/drywaller/painter (which the trade unions hate) who can be quickly moved around as needed. If a house is running late it is possible to work 24hrs instead of only durring dayling. The quality control is also going to be better as a knowledgeble foreman can supervise many homes at once. Also the house designer or someone with similar training is probably onsite and can be called upon to decipher the drawings.

    Anecdotal evidence shows that locally prefab houses are of much better quality then regular built homes. The better process builds a better home. By "anectdotal evidence" I mean the 2 prefab houses I know of had no serious problems. Whereas 7 other new home owners have had significant issues from cracks in the wall, to no insulation in the atic/roof, to improperly installed hardwood floors. It is possible that the local home builders are simply incompetent.

    1. Re:prefabs are great by Zeinfeld · · Score: 4, Interesting
      From a process engineering (geek) point of view you can't beat a prefab house built in a factory.

      The first ever pre-fab homes were built by Thomas Edison for his own use. He had two built next door to each other on his place in Florida. There was no way he could have got the quality of contractors localy in what was then a swamp mostly.

      If you are going to build a wooden house you are almost certainly going to build it in panels and then fit the panels together. Bob Villa builds all his houses that way at any rate. So there is not much difference between building a partly finished panel onsite and a fully finished panel back at a factory. Certainly no intrinsic reason pre-fab should be worse.

      I have a Victorian arts and crafts house, some parts are completely hand crafted, others are machine made. The real difference is not the type of manufacture, its the quality of the materials.

      --
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    2. Re:prefabs are great by shakah · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The first ever pre-fab homes were built by Thomas Edison for his own use.
      FWIW, he also built some concrete houses in New Jersey (US).
  6. You get what you pay for ... by altp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    pre-fabs are cheaper than a 'properly' built home but offer a way for someone with a limited budget to have something of their own.

    I purchased one back in may (2003) and over all have been very happy with it. All of the problems that I have had have been from installation of the home and not construction of it in the factory.

    Its solid, roomie and costs as much as renting an apartment but without the landlord hassels.

  7. Can't beat a handbuilt house by pyite · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sorry, a prefab home may be cheaper, but you cannot put a price on work done by true craftsmen. There's nothing like a nice house with done by hand trim and bricks that have each been touched by someone's hands. Of course, if you don't know any real craftsmen and cannot do it yourself, then a prefab is probably a safer bet. A factory built house that's true is better than a hand built one thats crooked.

    --

    "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

    1. Re:Can't beat a handbuilt house by jjshoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wait what? Are you suggesting robots built pre-fab homes? I happen to know a local contractor who bids prices using new wood on re-models. He proceeds to use as much of the old would as possible no matter what shape its in as long as it will hold until he is gone. Only to pockect the difference in money of new wood. That's real craftmanship!

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    2. Re:Can't beat a handbuilt house by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, but the average building contractor isn't a craftsman.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:Can't beat a handbuilt house by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You cannot put a price on a craftsman's work -- but such people are in short supply these days.

      Try to find a skilled brick or stonemason, or a carpenter capable of building a staircase like they did 100 years ago. If you'll find any, they'll either be semi-retired or have a multi-year backlog of work.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    4. Re:Can't beat a handbuilt house by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Plasterwork is a great example.

      Another lost art is metalwork. Our local rail station needed a new copper dome... The nearest available tradesman was in Italy (the station is in New York) they had to wait 6 months to the Italian to come over and do the work, and I believe that he was in his early 60's.

      The Navy is in a similar situation. There are approximately 50 people who can safely perform a specialized kind of hull welding that is needed to assemble the bows of submarines. They actually extend submarine production cycles purposely to keep their skills fresh.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  8. Consider how they're built by Hanzie · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've had exactly these questions. Fortunately my wife's father spent 20+ years building houses, and firmly believed that building a house to last a century saves money in the long run. Since he's gotten older, he's worked as a building inspector for the local city, and a couple of others.

    When we get together, he tells me stories of stupid dishonest contractors. (I ask for them so I know what to look out for). Apparently, it's pretty common for the cities not to have enough inspectors, especially in fast growing areas. It's also common for inspectors to let the contractors know in advance what will be looked at closely and what wont. Large tracts of homes are especially vulnerable to inspection oversight. For dishonest contractors, it's cheaper to fix what an overworked inspector catches than to build the entire thing to code. Especially if you know the inspector, and know what he looks for and what he ignores.

    He very much likes pre-fab houses for quite a few reasons (detailed below). He's also a big fan of steel framed houses, since they're strong and easy to put up. And don't burn. Wires are also very easy to fish through them. They also have extremely strong points under the supporting I beams, good for hanging unlikely things like water beds.

    Pre fab vs onsite:

    Pre Fabricated houses are built in a heated factory by workers with all tools and materials close at hand. Building supplies are instantly available, and are replaced as needed.

    On-site building requires timing of delivery of supplies. Lumber brought in advance is subject to waiting in the rain, theft, vandalism, and bugs in the dirt. Tools are brought to the site, and if one breaks, gets lost, borrowed or needed elsewhere, an inferior tool will probably get drafted for the job. Supplies are bought in quantities just enough for the job, and if an accident or shortage happens, they're will probably be a "stretching" of supplies to make it through the job. Or it's running over budget and cheap stuff is substituted.

    Pre-Fab: The compressed air is high pressure and lots of volume, meaning that the tools all work properly. The factory is well lit and problems, if arising, can be corrected immediately.

    On Site: The compressors are small enough to carry around. They don't have the same power (they work, but can't handle the same duty cycle)

    Pre Fab: completely engineered, and any problems have been long since solved, and properly corrected. It's on an assembly line.

    On Site: often designed one at a time, for each plot of land, so each one is different. Sometimes boneheaded mistakes are made in the design, but not caught till later. The fixes are ugly, but hidden (suprises later!). Once the house is built the contractor is gone, and he didn't do the work anyway, he subcontracted it to guys who are operating on a shoestring,cutting corners everywhere possible.

    Contractor: Get the job done for the least amount of cash acceptable. Do a good job where the building inspector is looking, unless it's a subdivision. Then there's no time for inspections and horrible things happen, like stealing the rebar out of the cement forms before the pouring. Unbelivably stupid, but it happened.

    The mentality of the factory owners is like Avis rent-a-car "We're #2 so we try harder". Everybody equates them mentally with ramshackle mobile homes, so they have to be nearly perfect to even try to compete. Oh, and since the "mobile home" rep is still dogging them, they have to compete on price, and the house is a continuing "model home" because all the owners friends are going to ask about it.

    Any materials for building on upper floors have to be lugged up stairs^h^h^h^h^h^h ladders (ever try to climb a ladder with both hands full?). Every extra bit of adhesive/lumber/brick/drywall mud/nail used is one more that has to be lugged up. Was it even delivered in the first place? If they run out of something, they'll substitute with something else to get the job done.

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    ********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
    1. Re:Consider how they're built by Hanzie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Forgot 2 things:

      #1: Apparently the expensive homes are generally very well built, since the owners are, or can afford, lawyers. The opposite is also generally accepted.

      #2: Pa-in-law was the building inspector who caught the rebar theft out of foundations. He inspected multiple concrete buildings a contractor was putting up. The inspections were spaced far enough apart that they could pull the rebar out of building #1 and get it to #3 while #2 was inspected. Then #2's rebar went to #4.

      Apparently they figured that once the cement was poured, there wouldn't be any way to tell the rebar was gone. They probably also figured that it would be such a boneheadedly stupid thing to do that nobody would think to look out for it.

      Anyway, something triggered suspicions, and he went back and checked #1 as it was being poured. No rebar. Stop the pouring and drive straight to #2. Same story, but no cement yet.

      The end of the story involved jackhammers and large fines. Building inspectors herabouts get badges and citation authority.

      It was a huge risk for such a tiny gain, since rebar is so cheap. On the other hand, as my father in law says: If nobody ever tried it, there wouldn't be inspection requirements.

      --
      ********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
    2. Re:Consider how they're built by ksheff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've heard of contractors doing the same thing with insulation. and the owners wonder why their utility bill is so high...

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      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    3. Re:Consider how they're built by BoomerSooner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lol, this is why you research your builder. All you have to do is contact their previous buyers (you can get a list of homes built from the permit office), and look at their constrution in progress to get an idea (if you don't know what to look for, ask someone for help). If you think you can get a prefab up and built in a few days you obviously have never had one built, seen one built, or compared to a true on site built home. Most premanufactured homes simply have the frame built with the necessary holes drilled for the installation of hvac, electric & plumbing. It only cuts about 10-15% of the time of construction off the house. This is also completely avoiding the market appreciation of the home he/she is purchasing as well. Most areas that include prefab homes do not appreciate at the same rate as more upscale (and expensive) custom homes. Not to mention that these areas in 10-15 years generally become mostly rent homes due to their cheap prices. Hell there are areas I've seen people depreciate their home. There is more to buying/building a home than just walls & concrete.

      There are several levels of builders where I build (I am the construction manager, my father is the builder and architect). We consider ourselves to be in the upper range.

      The levels of homes I see built are:
      Prefab (900 to 1500 sq ft) - quick & dirty but well built in general, especially for the price.
      Small contracted (1300 to 2000 sq ft) - these are usually the worst quality because the builders are in waiter mode (turn and burn), they hire the cheapest contractors possible and have the worst quality control (they make their money on volume and development of the land).
      Mid-Sized contracted (1800 to 2500 sq ft) - these vary, we generally build some that fall in this range but we focus on building in more established neighborhoods where there are significant restrictions, convenants, etc to protect all they buyers/builders in an area.
      Medium/Larger contracted (2300 to 5000 sq ft) - these are the easiest to build well because you have a good amount of cash to work with and they can still be built in a 6-9 month timeframe.
      Large contracted - (5000+ sq ft) Depending on the customer these can get very difficult to build and can take up to 2 years (8000 sq ft, very ornate, etc).

      Our competitive advantages are significant in building in Oklahoma. 1) there aren't any big chain homebuilders kicking out developments (for the most part). 2) Brick is almost free here (it's where most of it is made) so homes look very nice. 3) We use the same subcontractors on all our homes, most our people have worked with us for over 10 years. 4) We pay our subs, so when there is a problem they come back. 5) We do acutal custom architecture for free (we make our profit off the sale of the home). 6) We don't borrow to build (so we can charge less since we don't have to carry construction loans).

      All in all I'd say look at more factors than just price and quality. You have to look at the economic impact of your purchase on your net worth and the ability to get a return on your investment. Sometimes a little planning goes a long way. A home is the #1 asset for most families and as such should be treated with the same care and consideration as buying stocks or investing in any other appreciable asset.

      Just ask a realestate agent if they think it will be a good place to sell in 10 years. That can give you a decent idea.

  9. You're a geek right? by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Funny

    Surely the geeky thing to do is casemod an existing home. What you could do is add a window, and put some lights on the inside, so making the internals visi... I'll get my coat.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  10. Don't forget! by gmhowell · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't forget to take the wheels off. Trust me, you do NOT want your house being repossessed.

    Seriously, I know a few people with prefabs (off site construction, or some other PC phrase exists) and they seem okay. Watching the home shows, it seems they can do amazing things these days. While you can't get a true 'custom' home (also unlikely as most contractors only want to build from one set of cookie cutter prints) there is enough variability in modules that if you find a large manufacturer, you're unlikely not to be satisfied.

    There, think that second paragraph might be serious enough to avoid a downmod as a 'troll' for what is really a 'funny', 'insightful', and 'intelligent' joke in the first.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  11. I actually sell them. by mike_lynn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Check with the manufacturer, ask for details on how it's constructed. They've been required since the mid-80s to build them to at least HUD code and since they're generally shipped down the road in pieces, each piece is usually sturdier than many "stick-built" homes (in order to survive the trip).

    Even with these requirements, there's still a _very_ wide range of construction quality, both exterior and interior. Shop around, walk through a few lots physically. Beware, we work on commission. Don't seem too interested or you may find yourself sitting at a table with a pen :D Also, prices vary from dealer to dealer (even with the same manufacturer), so you may be able to drive an extra hour or two and save yourself a few thousand bucks.

    As for the houses themselves, there are several different types (manufactured, modular, etc.) each with their own features and price ranges. I sell manufactured homes. They have their own shipping frame built into the bottom of the house. The structural benefits make construction less expensive for the manufacturer, but as a result they're built less like a stick-built home than a modular is (where rooms are preconstructed, minus foundation, and shipped to the site). Also, much of the construction contains OSB (oriented strand board) which can cause problems for severe asthmatics due to possible low-level formaldehyde release from the bonding adhesives. Most modern homes actually use this material in one place or another, it's just more prevalent in a manufactured home. If you're worried, look for adequate ventilation in the construction. As a side note, I've worked 8 hours a day (sometimes more), 5 days a week in one (for an office) for a few years and feel fine.

    I actually got into the business when my wife and I moved and were looking for a new home. We considered a manufactured home, but eventually settled for stick-built. Here's why: the house was already built, all we had to do was pay a price. With paperwork, site-work and build-time, a manufactured home can go up in as short as 2 months. This is _extremely_ fast in comparison to constructing a stick-built home, plus you have a considerable amount of 'customization' available (at roughly half the cost per square foot). However, it _is_ a construction site and will probably end up being a construction loan. Be prepared for it to take time and you'll need to be in constant contact with your salesman and bank.

    As for the prior poster who wrote: "If the soil is clay or too rocky, you could spend as much as 50-75k putting in a septic system!", I can honestly say I've _never_ seen a system cost that much. Maybe it's just where we live, but high end systems here run just under $20k, while the average is $12k. You will need to be sure of: Electrical access, septic rated for the house you order, site-work for the foundation, garage (?), access for getting the pieces of house on-site, etc. There are a lot of costs that aren't included in the house, _make sure you get it all up front before you sign_.

    All said and done, manufactured homes are a great way to go for a semi-customizable home at about half the cost of building your own. You'll probably be limited to a single floor (2 story homes are still a rarity, but they exist), but we've got some that are in excess of 2700 sqft. I really like the product and may end up living in one at some point in the future. Good luck in your research.

  12. but maybe you don't like colonial ? by HughsOnFirst · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you don't want a colonial, or other "traditional" home you should check out
    FabPrefab, a web resource dedicated to tracking developments in the realm of 'modernist prefab dwellings'.

    Also check out Dwell Magazine and the Dwell Home which is a showcase project for the magazine and is prefab.
    The Loftcube is a cool Prefab Penthouse ( delivered by helicopter ! ), but whether you could get one shipped from Germany is something else.

  13. Hither and yon by breon.halling · · Score: 4, Funny
    "...researched hither and yon and..."

    Damned kids these days! Doesn't any one say "thither" anymore? ;)

    --
    "Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
  14. I recommend Real Estate School by Hanzie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Suggestion: go to real estate school and get your real estate license.

    It's kind of like a law degree. You don't have to be a practicing lawyer for it to help.

    A real estate license will teach you the great unknowns about the laws and pitfalls of the business.

    Unlike law, the real estate license takes about a month (around here, at least) and is subsidized by the real estate brokerage firms. They don't care to make money by tuition, they just charge enough to make sure that the prospective students are serious, not timewasters.

    Around here it's $500 dollars, and that more than covers the savings you'll make on every house you buy or sell. It's a month, but the hours are extremely flexible at most of the schools, and your real savings will probably be closer to $3-5000 on each house you buy. More than enough to pay back your time invested.

    Earning a real estate license will also let you forgo the need to hire your own agent. You'll be able to split the fee with the selling agent, and pocket about 3%. Yes, it's legal in most, if not all places, to act as your own agent when purchasing on your own, but there are some thing you really need to know. Accordingly, this paragraph starts with the word "Earning" rather than "Having"

    Also, there are a great many people who don't like realators for various reasons, and prefer to keep the comissions for themselves. Hence "For Sale by Owner". It is very helpful to know what you're doing in this circumstance because both of you might very well be clueless to the laws and ordinances and local "gotcha's".

    Another worry is that "For Sale by Owner" might be because the current owner is attempting something that no realator would risk their license by being a party to.

    Caveat emptor. Knowlege can keep you from getting burned.

    Good luck.

    --
    ********* sig: If you don't like the law, get filthy stinking rich, and buy a better one.
  15. Steel Buildings by cr0sh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look into steel building manufacturers and contractors. Many times, these people offer various packages to suit your needs (outside and inside details). Yours may be "funky" (ie, a house instead of a business or meeting hall), but they should be able to work with you to get what you want. Furthermore, such buildings can be *very* cheap (a place here in the Phoenix area is offering a 80 x 150 foot building for $50,000 - sure, that is probably without any "extras" - but still damn cheap for the sq footage).

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  16. Re:Oh puhleeze by Hanzie · · Score: 2, Informative

    Your points are good, and well taken. However, the motivations are completely different. I'm an computer and financial manager in a factory and I've learned a few important things:
    1. Running out of supplies costs money.
    2. Unhappy workers can bankrupt you.
    3. The biggest source of workplace stress not being able to do a good work.

    Lets discuss your assertions and implications directly."
    As if factory managers and workers and corporations never saved pennies in disgraceful ways.
    -And subcontractors living on a shoestring dont? this is a specious attack, without specifics, so there's not much to say besides "oh yeah, so are you" ...-

    I myself will never buy a tract home because I don't want to live in a tract, but by gum I will get a stick built home to my own design by a builder I trust before I buy a prefab.
    -your point seems to be you trust builders more than prefab builders. You seem to know and trust a plural of builders. Good on ya, and good luck. I, and many other people don't have pre-existing relationships of trust with any builders, so we have to use different criteria for decisions.-
    -You also seem to be more confident of your own design abilities than the abilities of the engineers/architects working for the prefab builders. Bully for you. I, and many others, don't have the confidence to pit our design abilities vs the prefab folks. This isn't blind faith in their abilities, but it is tempered by a known lack skill on the parts of many of the rest of us.-

    Such a rosy picture. My my, to listen to you, factories are little sections of heaven,
    -Factories are better places to work than outside, in general. If that were not the case, factories wouldn't have roofs.-

    populated by happy workers
    -From what I've seen, they're somewhat more happy than the typical subcontracting drywaller. Less stress and not worrying about an inability to feed the family in case of the all to common disabling accident. Most of them are very small outfits which don't pay unemployment, health, or even worker's comp. Factory work in the US is generally better.-

    singing at their jobs.
    -Point to you, the radio is generally cranked at on-site buildings, while the suits in factories tend to think of music as "unprofessional"-

    with bosses to die for
    -Very interesting you should say that. There is a reason that construction jobs have such an unbelivably high Workers Compensation rate. They're extremely dangerous. Since every house is different there are few ways to standardize and make safe the job in construction.-
    -In a factory, however, jobs are generally assigned to a particular area and standardized. This makes for greatly increased safety. Greedy bastard employers LIKE safety. Injured workers work slowly, require assistance are abscent and raise worker's comp rates. Honorable, trustable contractors just get a new carpentry subcontractor when the old one gets a sack of nails from two stories up. No muss, no fuss, no additional costs. If the subcontractor is unable to finish, it can be a bonus, since the work before the injury probably won't even be paid for (job not done- no paycheck).-

    managers who really Really REALLY care about customers
    -I can give you my own perspective about the manager "really Really REALLY caring" about customers. Belkin recently treated their customers badly. It hurt sales. Do you really think the marketing droid who came up with the spamming router got a promotion? Do you think he's even still with the company?-
    -Paychecks don't materialize out of thin air. Somebody, generally customers, have to want to give that money to the company before it can land in my paycheck. So yes, I'm a manager and I absolutely care about customers. I want a relationship where they keep coming back and spending money with us again and again.-
    -Subcontractors, on the other hand, don't deal with the customers. They deal with the contractor who has his own interests at heart. He may not feel

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  17. Re:30 Years Later by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Check out this website...

    http://www.heritagebuildings.com/homes/home_more _i nfo.htm

    Trailer Park my foot.

    I'll never even consider a 'stick built' house. All of my family and friends have horror stories about contractors, etc.. To use one of my Dad's very favorite sayings 'If you want it done right, you've got to do it yourself.'

    --
    "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
  18. Prefabricated snacks by Cranx · · Score: 3, Funny

    The slashdot crowd is probably far more knowledgable about prefabricated cakes and pies than prefabricated homes.

  19. i could only imagine.... by s33l3t · · Score: 2, Funny

    the instructions, place bead of glue on wall A edge side wall A and B together, clamp. let dry for 24 to 48 hours.

  20. Re:Oh puhleeze by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1. Saying that factories can cut as many corners as on site builders ... how is that any more a specious attack than your initial assertion that onsite workers are terrible and factories are perfect? You need to look up the definition of specious.

    2. I don't have to know builders now. I only have to investigate builders when I get ready to build, and find a single builder I can rely on, from friends' experiences and local reputations. Someone who has lived in thearea for a long time and been building reputable homes for a long time is a fine bet. They are not hard to find.

    3. As for my design skills, they are non-existent as an architect, but I know what I want in general, and that is enough to guide an architect. I don't have to know everything, just enough.

    4. Factories are better to work for who? I notice your background is finance. Whoopee. Let's ask factory workers themselves, let's ask outside workers. Plenty of outside workers wouldn't be caught dead inside on a good day. Perhaps you ought to get out of the factory once in a while and visit the real world. Where I live for instance, it doesn't rain during the building season, and plenty of people would rather be outside working than inside. Further, once the framing is up, most of the work is inside, within walls with a roof overhead, and lockable doors and windows. A little onsite factory, if you will. Factory walls also exist to keep workers inside in addition to keeping weather outside.

    5. Very little of a house is boring drywall. Most of the people who work in the construction industry enjoy it and take pride in doing a quality job, because it is their individual part, not some factory of cookie cutter projects. It's called pride in craftsmanship. Perhaps you ought to ask some of them, or even try a little manual labor yourself before condemning all of them as soulless sourpusses.

    6. Yes, greedy bastard factory owners like job safety, but greedy bastard onsite workers hate it. See if you can spot the difference. See if you can spot who has a silly rosy picture of his own industry and a lousy view of the competition. See if you can spot the unbalanced view.

    7. My neighbors and friends who are contractors of course don't want to be in business next year or ten years from now. Yes, factory pencil pushers like yourself can go get a job in some other different kind of office at any time. Contractors who want to build up a reputation so they can keep on building homes have nothing but their name and reputation. So we can all guess who is more dedicated to doing a quality job.

    It is not worth going on. What is obvious by now is that you are a pencil pusher who has way too rosy a picture of your own work environment and company, and a very distorted view of the competition. One of the secrets to winning is knowing the competition. You don't.

  21. Depreciation by phyy-nx · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Now here is the big problem I saw in pre-fabs: they are more like cars than homes, especially if you put them in an already established village. They depreciate. My wife and I were very tempted by them, but one of the things that eventually turned us off was how insistent our salesman was that he could get us _out_ of it when were were done with it. That's a selling point? Are they so hard to get rid of? Yah, we ran. Maybe things have changed since then but its worth looking into.

    Now, if you are not going to move out from it, than yeah, maybe it could work out pretty good.

  22. Re:Depends on the materials by lowmagnet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If your house is fibro and tin, then it is a trailer, and not a pre-fab. Or it is a Ryan home.

    In fact, I've seen houses go up across the street from my pop's place, and I have to say their construction speed / materials used are naff. They use particle board the whole way up, and they take up to three months to build and roof.

    That is in Pennsylvania, which is not the driest state in the union. Where I live now (NC), they build the roof first to cover construction then jack it up while building walls beneath. It is interesting to watch.

    It is not, however, as good as the factory built home my grandparents live in. It fits in with the 'compound' (what we call my mom's place, it's a sprawling contemporary) and it was built for $50,000 + foundation and finishing touches (we do a lot of DIY construction in my family). Unfortunately, they didn't build it perfectly to specs, so they had to make some adjustments. The company that did it went OOB a few months later, so so much for the warranty. Ah well, pick your builder better next time is what we learned.

    --
    Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
  23. Re:(the problem with) Steel Buildings by NuttyBee · · Score: 2, Informative

    1. Steel is used for framing only. I'd challenge your assertion that you'd need some inordinate amount more insulation.. 2. You can easily let a regular electrical contractor do the wiring, the framing members are designed to pass the wire through pre-stamped holes. Most steel framing systems are just about big erector sets. Look at Excalibur Steel as an example. It's a big, customizable, kit.

  24. Re:Get tornado insurance by ElectricRook · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's a reason mobile home parks are known as "Tornado Magnets".

    Have an insurance agent tell you about insurance options/price difference between modular and stick built homes.

    Modular homes seem to have straighter lines, but they are made from thinner lumber. Where a stick built home is made from 2-by somethings, modular homes are made from 3/4 by somethings. Joinery is neater in modular construction, but materials are much thinner. One of the main interests in modular construction is weight of the finished product.

    Consider how modular homes are attached to the foundation? My stick built house is bolted to baselite basement walls attached (hopefully) with rebar to footings dug into the soil. I actually have an attic which I can crawl up into and view the insulation, add electric circuits, and lighting or fans.

    Consider how the electric circuits are going to be connected together in a modular. If a home is a bunch of boxes, the wiring is snap together.

    Do you want copper or PVC plumbing? Copper never had the "blue water" problem. It's more expensive, but more resiliant if there is a freeze. What size water heaters are available, and what does your family need?

    What if you want to remodel?

    Ask a realestate agent to price out older modular homes onsite, and compare them to new modular homes + installation and landscaping. Often modular homes don't appreciate as fast as stick built homes. But consider that newer modulars are built with a different paradyme than older modulars (new modulars are not oversized travel trailers).

    All show pieces, both stick and modulars have under-sized furniture. Take in a tape measure, and layout your furniture in the modular model. If you have a king-sized bed, go into a bedroom, and layout a king size bed with night stands etc.
    Do the same in the kitchen/dining area for the dining table, and especially your washer/dryer and refridgirator. If you go to see an installed modular, flush the toilet, and turn on the shower, go to other rooms to see how much noise transfers. Are you un-happy with that amount of noise.

    Some people are very happy with modulars, and there can be a huge savings with a modular manufacturers mass buying power on appliances.

    --
    - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
  25. Re:Fire and steel... by N3Bruce · · Score: 3, Informative

    The fact that the framing of a house is steel probably makes little difference in the combustibility of the house as a whole. The framing is only a fraction of the contents of the house, and you have to consider the furniture, flooring, wall materials, and stored materials (paints, varnishes, solvents,etc) that are also in a house. A steel framed house also has the potential drawback of conducting electricity, and could be a hazard, particularly when using Romex cable, unless the edges are properly protected. Wood framing is less likely to have sharp edges, and does not conduct electricity to any great degree unless it is soaking wet. Of course, you could use BX Cable or conduit, but that adds to the cost of wiring the house over Romex.

    I have noticed though that steel roofing is making a comeback around here. Most of the older houses >50 yrs old have tin roofs, most of which still serve their purposes, though they need repainting every few years. After WW2, most houses were built with the familiar asphalt shingles we see today, and those roofs need to be replaced every 20 to 30 years.

    Prefinished metal roofing is becoming the standard for most agricultural type structures and outbuildings, but I have also seen it being used on several houses around here as well.

  26. The key is planning by N3Bruce · · Score: 3, Informative

    I am currently in the process of building a prefab (modular) home, and while it is too early to say if I made the best decision possible, here are a few impressions I have of the business, . While my housing needs and budget are fairly basic, I wanted to try to make the most of a very nice piece of land that my Dad subdivided for me when he sold the old family dairy farm. Most comparable lots in the area would be sporting half million dollar McMansions, while the realities of my budget were more in line with a tract house in an older Baltimore suburb. The challenge was to build a nice, but modest house for my use and budget, but build in quality and expandability for when the day came to sell.

    I had several meetings/phone conversations with each of the 3 builders I interviewed before I made a decision. All three seemed competent and had at least several dozen modulars under their belts. All had some pretty good ideas to build in some expandability, usually by selecting a model, or modifiying an existing one to have buildable space in the attic. Each represented a different manufacturer, and I speced out houses as close to each other as I could to make my decision based on who I thought would do the best work, at the fairest price. I priced the basic houses out when fitted with basic options, then set up a spread sheet to compare items line by line or items on allowances, as well as "wish list" items.

    Builder one was very knowledgeable, had been doing modulars for 10 years and the base price of the house was attractive. Unfortunately, the house that was shown in the brochure was not the house that I would get without spending an extra 10 grand for the overbuilt roof. I would be a plain box house. Every little upgrade, such as mouldings, deluxe cabinets, and so on was priced as if the builder was tearing out the cheap stuff , throwing it away and installing the good stuff himself. The manufacturer he admitted was difficult to work with, and between the lines he was telling me that for more than a bare basic house he could do better by me by doing a stick built. I agreed with his assesment, and looked for a second opinion.

    The second builder represented one of the largest manufacturers of Modulars in the region, and had at least as much time in the business as the first. The second manufacturer offered more attractive exteriors and floorplans than the first, and the builder seemed much more enthusiastic than the first about the company he represented. The price was somewhat higher for the basic house, but at least some of the increased cost was justified. He shared the same affliction as the first builder by pricing upgrades very aggresively. Another thing that unsettled me a little was his reticence at me doing either a site visit or to contact the owner of a completed house.

    While the subdivision process for the lot dragged on and stalled, I took a break from the process for a while. When the wheels of bureaocracy started to grind again, I decided to widen my search for a manufacturer and builder, and found my third prospective builder, who represented a manufacturer in Central PA which offered a more upscale product in the square foot range I was looking for. He also had a nearby project, a modular addition to an older house, which was literally right under my nose, and I got a chance to tour a more upscale project he was in the middle of and I was impressed. In the end I ended up going with him, as the upgrades that I wanted in the other houses were either included, or priced more reasonably in his quote. The manufacturer is also able to do more in-factory customization, and in fact my house will be a hybrid of one exterior, with the floorplan based on a somewhat different model.

    So far things seem to be going very well, and the foundation work went very smoothly. For now there are some minor foundation jobs to complete, but the next big event is the delivery and set of the house itself in about a month. My main concern there is the weather, which can turn ugly that time of year, but as long as he gets a decent dry day for the set, most of the rest of the work can be done inside in heated comfort the builder assured me.

  27. Steel buildings by oneiros27 · · Score: 2, Informative
    He very much likes pre-fab houses for quite a few reasons (detailed below). He's also a big fan of steel framed houses, since they're strong and easy to put up. And don't burn. Wires are also very easy to fish through them. They also have extremely strong points under the supporting I beams, good for hanging unlikely things like water beds.
    There are some major advantages of steel studs. Yes, the punchouts make it very easy to fish lines through, as you punch a little circle out, add a grommit, and you pass the wire through -- You don't have to deal with drilling in between 16"OC studs, and then making sure they all line up, so you can fish easily.

    But once the wall's up, they're both a pain in the ass to deal with. [I'm a big proponent of unfinished basements to run wires through, or unfinished attics.]

    As for the fire issue, I'd say that metal houses are less fire-safe than wood structures. The best wood built structures, in my opinion, are built from large structural timbers, rather than today's balloon framing. Balloon framing isn't all that bad in a fire, as the drywall does act as a fire retardant. And wood itself needs to come to temperature to burn -- metal, however, will slowly lose strength as it is warmed up.

    If you're looking for fireproof buildings, I'd go with concrete. [there are styrofoam forms that are stacked in like legos, the rebar's put into place, and the concrete poured in -- the foam can then be routed out for a cable chase]

    I don't want it to seem that I'm not a fan of metal -- I am, but it just has to be used in the correct applications, like anything else. The one major advantage to metal is how it fails -- it doesn't tend to fail in spectacular fashion as often as other materials, as it'll noticably deflect under load, and under slight deflections, behaves elasticly. [As opposed to concrete, which will just fail outright... which is why you don't want to put too much rebar into concrete, or then the concrete fails before the metal does]

    Oh-- and to keep this on topic. Although I have no experience with them, I like what some of the Swedish companies have done with pre-fab. [It's like a really large Ikea flat-pack]:I'd rather buy locally, if I can (shipping isn't cheap, after all), but I really like the concepts.
    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.