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Universities Dispute with Red Hat over 'Fedora'
Carl Lagoze points out that a pre-existing software project is already using the Fedora name, dating back to 1998. They're unhappy with Red Hat's claim to the name, and have objected.
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Founded December 2002 by University of Hawaii Computer Science student Warren Togami, the previous Fedora Linux Project is an international team of volunteer software developers united for the development of high quality 3rd party RPM packages for the Red Hat Linux platform.
Did Darl McBride take over Red Hat when we weren't looking?
"Fedora is now a trademark of Red Hat, Inc. Red Hat will defend this trademark in order to protect the integrity of The Fedora Project"
Looks like Red Hat needs to find another name.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
Then apparently Fedora needs to change hats...
seems www.fedora.info is using a hat that looks similar to redhats doesnt it? im sure everyone will throw stones for a while...till the glass house falls down.
Should we point out to the university that Amazon is the name of a rainforest, and that the online store should change their name?
There are many instances where names overlap in different products, companies and places. It's just something that you have to accept and deal with in a free market economy, and especially OSS.
Kind of like http://freshmeat.net/projects/gentoo/ and http://www.gentoo.org.
Blue BabyBonnet Linux
Raspberry Beret Linux
I mean really. The attempt at "fedora" from "red hat" was cute.....but it isn't exactly necessary.....
Pink Sunglasses Linux.....
Green Visor Linux
fedora is a "cute" inside joke that most people won't even get. [how many PHB's or joe-sixpacks or even college students do you really expect know what the hell a Fedora is anyway]
-b
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
Matt Drudge has issued an objection, as he has a program that dates back to '98; a content management tool that auto-publishes sexual innuendo the second it is uttered by obscure, unnamed sources.
-Laz
Or they could call it Fez
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
A simple Google search on "Fedora" shows the project as the third result (behind two Fedora Linux results.) If you were going to name your project something, don't you think you'd at least take the ten seconds it takes to do a Google search and make sure you're not taking an already-used name? Fedora (Flexible Extensible Digital Object Repository Architecture) is even trademarked, for crying out loud.
Somebody at Red Hat needs their ass kicked over this, methinks.
I have no dispute with the university's prior claim.
But I have to wonder if they have been living under a rock... what took them so long to get vocal about this? RH's Fedora has been on the public radar for a long, long time now.
Just call it Firebird!
IANAL, but AFAIK you cannot trademark common English words. The example I've always seen is that you cannot trademark the word "orange", but you could trademark a unique phrase containing the word "orange". The Fedora Project homepage linked from the parent article seems to have the *word* "Fedora" trademarked, which I can't see would be possible (and in fact, it's not listed as a registered trademark, just a trademark - so there's no government sanctioning of their trademark).
I'm not sure I blame Red Hat for this one. A fedora is a fedora, just like an orange is an orange. You can't trademark it. If two companies are using the same word for their software projects, too bad. Protest those who put the word in the Oxford dictionary, maybe... but I don't think there's any real legal claim here.
And I'll close by reminding you again, IANAL.
1. Bowler
2. Beanie
3. Tinfoil
4. Fez
5. Toque
6. Skullcap
7. Helmet
8. Cowboy Neal's AssHat
Awsome name. Then RPM's should be called mini-carts.
Who wouldn't want that ?
Well, can't use "Pink Tie" if I recall correctly, as that's what cheapbytes used to sell what would have otherwise been a Red Hat distro.
How about calling it "The Distro Formerly Known as Red Hat Linux for Consumers?" -- or "|" for short? Instant recognition from avid *nix users...yet geeky enough to separate the "in-crowd" from the strictly-windows folks.
The ironic thing about this is that Fedora is supposed to be the community edition of Red Hat Linux (so the PR wants us to imagine as opposed to bluntly being beta testers of RHE) -- it really isn't good press to be creating negative buzz in the community.
That said, I'm running a downloaded version of RH9 and wondering how things will go from there.
Click here to view the status of Red Hat's Trademark filing.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
They may have just gone public, but their site says "The Cornell and Virginia teams have taken a number of steps to try to work with Red Hat regarding use of the name Fedora(TM). At this date, Red Hat has refused our request...." My guess is that they started waving their hands as soon as it became public knowledge, but as usual it took a while for everybody to hear about everybody else -- by which time it's a little late to get the toothpaste back into the tube.
-- We all have enough strength to endure the misfortunes of other people. La Rochefoucauld
Just a thought...
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
The ought to name it after the cowboy hat, our President (in the U.S.), and after Cowboy Neal!
A search at the US patent and trademark office lists 4 registered trademarks with the word fedora in them.
. 73467748 Feb 28 1984 Fedora Cafe and Bar
. 78296509 Sept 5 2003 Red Hat
. 78268874 June 30 2003 cosmetics
. 78312293 Oct 10 2003 Chemical Data Software
The fedora.info site of the complaining fedora project is using a tm symbol next to thier name on the site, but they have not registered it with the US trademark office.
It is not exclusively trademarked for software by fedora.info.
This could be forgiven of a small independent group, but this group is a co sponsored project, part of Cornell University and University of Virginia both of which I am sure have strict policies about things like Trademark, copyright and patents. And both have the legal staff to handle it.
Sorry but they won't get any sympathy from me, and no support from the law.
Trademark is not like copyright law, you must register to get exclusive control for a product in a market.
The university isn't making a trademark claim. Redhat is, which is going to prevent them from using a name that they've been using for quite some time. The Fedora Info project appears to be ok with Redhat using the name "Fedora", but they're not ok with Redhat trademarking it, as that would interfere with their continued use of the name Fedora. All clear?
The name of the (F)orgin (E)xchange (S)tudent on "That Secenties Show" is FES. Or rather, thats his nickname; his real name has never been disclosed.
That's probably why Cornell's Fedora Project uses a hat as a logo and why Redhat chose Fedora as a project name.
I've used Fedora on my home system and I thik it's pretty slick. It's definately a step up from RedHat 8 or 9. Did you read a review on slashddot to base your opinion? Try it for yourself, then decide. Doesn't Fedora allow you to roll out your own up2date repository, so as long as you can build your own RPMs and put them in there, you could have all your desktops update to the same software without having to rely on RedHat's very short product life cycle to keep support for your OS. Basically Fedora makes it more Your OS then RedHat ever did. This is especially attractive to the network admins who are running many linux desktops and want to roll out their own packages. I got to say that I love it.
Before you send off those interview questions to Matthew Szulik, I think there may be one or two new ones that would be appropriate...
I'm always shocked at these types of naming farces. It is so easy to run a search on any name and determine prior uses. Besides a search engine, other good sources of prior uses of name include any online yellow pages, whois, and the USPTO Trademark Search. A bit of searching before deciding on a name can help prevent these types of trademark infringement problems.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
I suggested this a long time ago - Head Rat Linux.
Chris
The problem is that all the best names are already taken. Some are taken by real companies selling real products, others are taken by obscure one-man-shop programmers. RedHat wanted a cool name for this new product, and realized they'd have better odds picking a fight with a ragtag bunch of students than with a real company with real resources to invest in a legal battle.
I think they're right. Seriously, all the best names are taken. If you're going to create a new product, the best you can hope for is that whoever has already created a product with that name didn't really do much with it, and will be willing to sell you the name (or not put up a fight when you take it anyway).
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Being strong, reliable, and slightly bloated myself, I feel my name would be a wonderful alternative to "Fedora".
Just thinking ahead.
(By the way, stop sucking, Red Hat. Seriously.)
Bowie J. Poag
Indiana Jones is reportedly suing Red Hat, Inc. for casting his trademark headgear in a bad light. Doctor Jones's lawyer says that the term "Red Hat" could also be subject to trademark, as one of Indy's seldom worn spring outfits featured a red fedora.
In other news, Darl McBride was seen running amuck in the downtown area, stealing any hats he could get his hands on while screaming 'They're ALL MINE! MINE!!!'
When have trademark cases actually been won by the big guys? When has a major company had to rename a product, after it had shipped? I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of any.
-twb