Slashdot Mirror
Novell, RedHat and Sun Commit to a Linux Desktop
DeckerEgo writes "InfoWorld reports on the Linux desktop and how Novell, Sun and RedHat (wha?) are working on making 2004 the year corporations start adopting open desktops. But which desktop? Most interesting to note is how Novell is planning to beef up the number of Ximian, Gnome, Mozilla and OpenOffice developers after its SuSE aquisition is complete. Does this mean that SuSE will stop being one of the best KDE distros out there and follow the way of the Gnome?"
RH seemed like they were well on their way in RH 8/9, then suddenly pulled the plug.
I love SuSE, and I love Gnome. I know many people out there may disagree, but having SuSE actually provide better Gnome support is wonderful news to me.
Regardless of that fact, having some big companies work together to create a unified front, a unified showing for Linux on the desktop, whether they use KDE, Gnome, or whatever, is good news as well.
Looks like some fun and interesting things are coming.
Jason Lotito
"Red Hat, for its part, is taking steps toward a widespread desktop offering.
I thought the official line from Red Hat was the Linux Desktop is Dying
More spin here than a Microsoft developers conference. Looks like the Linux 'community' is on the ebb, people are getting sweaty palms. Kerching! Kerching! Kerching!
I am wondering if they are going to put alot into user interface design like Apple did with OS X, and if they will be selling it preinstalled on computers like Windows does, that should deffinately bring up the market for it, also a unified desktop would be great for it too, people seem to think different on the subject though.
Sig: I stole this sig.
Yes, God forbid that a company that produces classy software like Qt should ever make any money whatsoever from it. However, when you compare Gnome to Qt you realise just how bloody awful free software can be. Gnome is the best advert for Qt there is. I`ve used both but would always choose Qt over Gnome if I had to develop an application. Kicking Trolltech in the teeth casts a bad light on some of the companies involved with Linux.
Dropline Gnome is quite good too...
Dunno -- I could swear I've read the same article ("2004 will be the year of the Linux desktop! Red Hat...SuSE...IBM...Sun...HP...GNOME...KDE, also...cheaper...Microsoft...virus...finally...") every year since 1998. The year just changes. Also, for a while they'd fawn over Eazel but then it disappeared.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I firmly believe that the only way Linux will make it's way to the masses that would normally use Windows or Mac is for the desktop to be unified. They need an interface that everyone else will know when they need help, not one that looks different.
A $2000 one time is nothing in software development costs. However, $2000 per developer adds up very quickly in a large company. Also keep in mind, if you want support, you have to pay that fee yearly. No big company is going to consider something like Qt without having support.
Also, the Qt licensing completely kills the potential for shareware apps for KDE. It's not really an issue now, but it would be if Linux were more mainstream.
For that reason, my money is on Novell making it on the desktop because they have a good understanding of deploying desktop/corporate systems. Sun and RH are more server folks. Maybe they can collaborate in some way?
IMHO.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I am curious about Sun's motivation. Cost effective Dell and IBM servers running *nix variants seem to have pulled the rug out from under Sun's market strategy. Sun's only strong product is Java, and they dont distribute it in a way that is conducive to acquiring revenue. If their strategy does center around Java, it would make sense for them to support an open desktop *nix system, because it would provide an effective way of promoting Java use. Personally, my respect for Sun was vastly diminished when Bill Joy was elbowed out. I think he was their best resource, and I think he could have provided them with a new product capable of keeping them in the market.
Yes, God forbid that a company that produces classy software like Qt should ever make any money whatsoever from it.
God, Allah and the easter bunny bless you sir. This was the post of the month for me. I'm so sick of people bitching for paying for ANYTHING....I mean seriously there are people out there bitching about apple's $1 a song fee.
Besides which Qt has free options. I suggest people take a peek at http://www.trolltech.com
My Network Admin got a LONG call from a Novell rep... We are a K-12 school district, about 13 Novell servers and mostly Win2K on desktops...
:)
The rep called to BS about how Novell wondered if we had thought about Linux on our desktops... (we use 2 as small web servers, mandrake, but nothing that fancy...)
The boss seemed to indicate that they wanted to push linux and open office... Not really a problem for me and the boss, but when I think of the everyday problems my users (Teachers/students) have with the microsoft products, I cringe when I think of turning them loose on Linux and Open Office...
It may be "OK" for me to play with, and for server use, but it doesn't seem to be right for the "average" (read as DUMB) users... And you can make things look SIMILAR to windows, but it's not windows... Our only final argument was that they had to convince Buisnesses to go to Linux and Open Office first... We are an educational environment, so we have to prepare them for what they use when they grow up... The kids that are into the networking and the future admins, find Linux in the networking class... the future secretaries find MSWord & Excell with Win2k...
Sad fact, but true... WE cannot expect to force our users to use something that they MAY not get to see in the real world, regardless of cost or how we may feel about a company.
Now, if you own or have power in a company, then THAT is where you start. Put linux in the front office on the computer of the 55 year old grandma secretary, and make it easy as pie to learn & use. Then you have a chance of changing the OS that is prefered when that same grandma goes home at night and wants get email pics of the grandkids...
Simple enough, right?
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
*cough* HP *cough*
Hey, they already have a deal with Mandrake for putting the distro on laptops in Asia as well as you can get a Mandrake CD set with some of their lower-cost pc offerings. They are still shilling RH-EL for the servers, but a deal with Mandrake could replace that with MDK Corp Server.
As someone who has been there since 8.1, I love the distro and see its potential. Come on HP, go for it!
Flash is the Herpes of the Internet.
your.opinion >
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Qt has been available on Windows, MacOSX, and Linux for years. Unlike gtk, it has highly polished Windows and OSX interfaces. Gtk is pretty much a joke on OSX, and until recently (with WIMP), was a joke on Windows.
If you think abiword or gimp for Windows is "great" software, you really need to be slapped around. GTK for Windows sucks and makes for bad applications.
When Novell makes their presentation on Linux at my work in two weeks, one question I will ask is whether they will offer a 'Live CD' for their corporate users to take home and boot into Linux on their home PC's, thereby allowing workers to connect to the company network with a STANDARD CORPORATE DESKTOP from their home PC. Not only will this be convenient for workers and more secure for corporations, but it will also put Linux on home PC's faster than any other initiative. What do you think?
C'mon, you've been here for ages. Remember all those Eazel/Ximian [Helix Code]/Red Hat press releases we used to get? Ximian is partnering with Compaq! Eazel is partnering with Compaq! What struck me was precisely seeing the same list of companies making the same proclamation for the first time in a while.
Not that I wouldn't welcome it, but it's clear by now that the HP guys aren't rushing back to Palo Alto to start cranking out consumer Linux preloads.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Sun just scored a 1M+ desktop agreement with China, which wants Gnome/Linux, not Windows or Solaris/CDE. Novell's got Ximian's Evolution, which offers a low retraining barrier-to-exit for Windows/Outlook users. Gnome's got the initiative right now. It's in RedHat's interest to make the Gnome/KDE interoperation barriers disappear, bringing together a unified desktop strategy for the growing Linux platform. Therefore, it's in Sun's interest to work on that convergence; likewise Novell. In fact, everybody is best served by converging to one basic desktop, perhaps with addon features specific to KDE, Gnome or others. Sun would be the last holdout, but that China contract might have finally convinced them that people prefer Linux on their desktop to Solaris, at least for now. By going along, Sun gets to sell them on Solaris for the server, which much better supports enterprises, especially distributed ones.
--
make install -not war
You know, when we're talking on Slashdot, it's easy to be evenhanded. That may sound absurd, what with Slashdot trolls and flamebait everywhere you look, but the point is, it usually doesn't have an impact (much to the disappointment of the more political among us). So I can love KDE but say I see merit to Gnome, and it's no skin off my back.
Having said that, I can't be so balanced here. If the Gnome crowd is calling the shots, then in my opinion, this is an unmitigated travesty. I want to be courteous, but seriously, if my desktop is at risk, I need to speak plainly: I think the goals of Gnome, the look & feel of Gnome, even some of the people behind Gnome, are completely at odds with everything I like. I dislike Miguel's MS cheerleading, and I love at least one of the KDE developers for saying bluntly in a Slashdot comment 2 years ago that he/she wants KDE to stay the hell away from that kind of thinking. I think Gnome's widgets are still terribly legacy-driven, and the ideas they have behind uber-simplified preferences flies in the face of everything I ever wanted.
In summary, I've always wanted to be a diplomat with the Gnome/KDE issue, because you catch more flies with honey and all that. But if KDE is going to get quietly redirected, my only response can be "do not go gently." I'm showing my cards. I don't think Gnome has any merit beyond their choice of licensing. KDE is superior in my opinion, and if KDE developers will not be leading Gnome, then at the very least I hope they retain autonomy.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
No.
We don't respond to foreign inquiries.
Seriously, though, why do languages take on any nuances? Spit is just as acceptable as spat, although there's a future perfect implied, as in, "I would have spit" versus the standard perfect "I almost spat".
Americans typically like to talk present tense so it would sound odd to use a present tense form of a verb in the past tense, completed sense.
As for petting vs. patting, petting connotes a caring, loving manner (http://m-w.com) while patting connotes merely showing approval. Again, cultural interpretations put a broader sense on these nuances, however slight.
Do return the favor and tell me why you use the form 'USians'. US is not a geographical area, nor is it a regional declaration. It is a political delineation, however, its principle stands on the unification of distinct and disparate elements. (Remember, the US was and is conceived of nations forgoing sovereignty to better guarantee their liberties.)
Personally, I find the term a show of ignorance and derision, but I'm sure you have better reasoning you could provide.
Thanks.
The opposite of progress is congress
How is this possible? The QT libraries are GPL. The KDE libraries link against them. Therefore if they aren't GPL'd also (they are indeed LGPL), they are in violation of the GPL. Is this not so?
My take as a sysadmin/user.
;-)
I think the KDE desktop is more easily configurable, but Gnome (GTK-2) apps are nicer.
Certain KDE components-- like Kate, Konqueror (as file manager and browser), Kasbar and Konsole are more elegant and utilitarian than their Gnome counterparts. That said, many utilities written for Gnome, but not necessarily part of Gnome are nicer than the Equivalent KDE third party apps--by this I mean Things like Gaim, Pan, and (this is a stretch) GTKed Firebird. Gimp's superiority goes without saying.
I was a long time KDE user but the need for speed and elegance caught me. Now I use Fluxbox because all is available from the right mouse button, and any app can be "tabbed" with any other. I find myself using the aforementioned Gnome/GTK2 apps, konqueror and quick show for occasional file browsing/image viewing, and aterm.
I just wish some how Exposity would work with Flux...
Acquiescence leads to obliteration
Thing is, if Gnome really becomes "the real thing" in the business arena, all the cool people will just stop using it, because it will then be like Windows -- so passe! KDE has survived so far without corporate help, and may do even better if Gnome gets hijacked.
Anyways, the big problem with KDE/Linux isn't KDE, it's Linux! If the Desktop Overlords help out with hardware drivers, software installation, and library API/ABI stability, then I will end up doing quite nicely out of all this ta' very much.
-- Demonic
They refuse to realise that targeting all aspects of PC usage is necessary to unseat the giant in Redmond.
I think the vendors could care less in the long run about unseating MS. Unseating MS is an idealist's goal not a business one. As long as they make enough money to justify what they're putting into Linux then they'll be happy. Taking a few percent of MS' markets would be serious money to all of these companies and MS could still claim victory. I don't see MS going away anytime soon. I'd love to see it happen but it won't.
The worst case scenario for MS is diversification from Office/Windows. In the long run, it's better for their corporate survival anyway. They'll still be around 10 or 20 years from now. They probably won't be the company everyone loves to hate either.
Also, Mandrake's configuration tools are all GTK+, not Qt.
I had been (still am on other machines) a long time RedHat user, but was asked by my boss to check out other distros, due to RedHat's licensing changes. So I chose to try both Mandrake and SuSE. I should also mention that I too am a Gnome user. For all intents and purposes I've gone completely SuSE on my desktop and laptop (with no plans to switch). Gnome is quite polished in this distro. Quite happy with it. Fedora's nice in that it continues RH's Bluecurve, but the whole licensing thing has left a sour taste for all of us.
Someone earlier said, ... "make the Gnome/KDE interoperation barriers disappear" ...
This is very, very true. In my case, I am presently using both Gnome and KDE apps - and the XFCE WM. If Gnome & KDE would stabilize on a common underlying data model (be it XML or whatever), then I could keep the same address book in both. I could use whichever calendar I wanted at the moment. And, because these two dominate the Linux desktop now, sooner or later all the other WM and desktop environments would probably migrate there too.
Perhaps these desktop groups could actually meet online or in San Diego, or wherever, and decide to agree on data formats and communications / object protocols!!
Even groups who went their own way could develop a mapping from their way to the common lingua franca.
One of the big advantages of open source software is that proprietary considerations take a back door to improving the breed. And all it takes is agreement at the bottom level.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Since the QT issue might be a factor in standardization attempts, I'm curious as to what kind or gross revenue TT realizes from licensing sales?
I've never actually come across a QT/W32 app. Wondering if anyone else has.
I think getting a standard desktop is a good thing. Not only will it bring more development to the standard platform (ability to write more code, revise it, analyze it for security issues, etc..) but perhaps a lot of duplication effort will be reduced and those developers can focus on innovative features, new areas of development, etc.
As a KDE user, I am slightly sad to see these corporations favor Gnome, but I would have to imagine that the features that I really like in KDE would find their way into the standard Gnome desktop (if that ends up being what happens) becuase lets face it -- the FOSS that is developed generally mimics the users of that particular FOSS.
It will be very interesting to see what type of inroads will be made in 2004.
While all residents of North and South America could conceivably be called Americans, it would not be accurate in many contexts. When someone is referred to as African, Asian, or European, it's often in regards to ethnicity, not political citizenship. There are people who are ethnically American, usually called Native Americans, or the unfortunate name American Indians (a misleading name that stuck since some early explorers thought they'd reached India).
However, the only country with America in its name is the USA. People from Canada are Canadians, and people from Mexico are Mexican; so people from the United States of America are American.
Every week, Slashdot has a compulsory article about companies who are going to push Linux on the desktop... great... but, once again, the whole IDEA of Linux on the desktop is malformed. Why? Simple! Repeat after me as many times as it takes to understand the concept... IT'S NOT THE DESKTOP THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE, IT'S THE SOFTWARE. KDE, GNome, or even XFCE are great, user-friendly, nice-looking, eye-candy-stuffed environments. Breautiful. Now what? At the end of the day, people want to work. It's not the OS, it's what you do with it. What makes Windows so popular... it's not the OS itself, it's the tons of professional programs that run on it. Unless companies like Adobe, Macromedia etc start porting their apps under Linux, there won't be any wide adoption. Databases, 3d design, word processors (StarOffice IS the most significant thing that happened to Linux in the last 2 years), financial soft, etc - those are the only things that will make Linux a success Just my 2C
http://www.automatiq.se
This year's pronouncement may not turn out to be the one, maybe not next year. But it's only a matter of time before the castle falls. The problem with being on the top of the hill is you only have one direction to go.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage