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IronPort Arms Both Sides In Spam War
securitas writes "We all know about IronPort's recent acquisition of SpamCop. What may not be common knowledge is that IronPort's Senderbase has 'the reputation as the fastest way to send millions of junk e-mail messages' and is popular with spam factories. Founded by two former Microsoft executives - Hotmail's Scott Weiss and ListBot founder Scott Banister - IronPort claims its customers are not spammers but legitimate marketers. Critics say that this is a clear conflict of interest. Playing spam from both sides might be likened to a pharmaceutical company enabling the spread of a disease in order to sell the cure. SpamCop founder Julian Haight - who had to sell the company in order to remain solvent - is quoted as saying of IronPort's anti-spam measures: "I am not sure all its standards are tough enough." The story was originally reported by the New York Times' Saul Hansell. Abbreviated mirror at IHT."
The analogy needs to be furthered a bit: this would be like a pharmaceutical company not only spreading that which they themselves sell the cure for, but above it all, that cure being phony, so that the market for the cure is maintained. Think, do you think IronPort's spam protection measures will stop their own supported spam? This reminds me of a bond-type plot where evil villains pay an evil company to let them continue ravaging the world. Even though this obviously would only last so long in the pharmaceutical industry, I'd call it a feasible, profitable, and despicable practice for the e-mail industry, with all the sources of spam floating around.
Since IronPort has access to SpamCop's filters now, they could hypothetically engineer a method around them or just kill the product entirely - or make it so that only they could bypass it, and any other spams sent from elsewhere would be blocked.
Arming the wolf with the shepherd's crook? More like giving him an M-249.
Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
This practice (of selling "pro" and "anti" products) is accepted in other markets. Not saying it's right, just saying it happens:
1)The telephone companies sell Caller ID *and* CallerID-block.
2) Supermarkets sell SlimFast AND chocolate doughnuts. Mmmmmm. Doughnuts.
More examples, anyone?
I said this before and I'll say it again...
There is a huge incentive for IronPort to stay on the legitimate side of things. Spamcop rocks (thanks Julian!) - but only because of the constant vigilance of the many users who report instances of spam. This is a human-based review system of millions of junk messages... without the users, there is no Spamcop, and Ironport bought nothing. They can't afford to risk being the bad guy here or they risk losing the reviewers !
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
I see this as a single-minded business. SPAMcop wants to remove spammers by hunting down the true origins of mail it is told are illegitimate, or through filters. OTOH, it is owned by a company that teaches and sells mass-marketing schemes. This mass-marketer has competition, and thats exactly what SPAMcop will be going after. Bingo! You have a great model to improve your scores by showing actual tallies of improved responses from people using your lists or methods.
However, there will be an easy way to detect this: If the companies that are sending the spam are ignored by SPAMcop and also part of their enterprise, we have the feared result. At the moment, I haven't seen any evidence of this posted anywhere. But I'm only one person.
mug
I think big business is starting to learn what step 2 is, and it's kind of frightening.
- Create inconvinience/problems.
- Sell products which eleminate the problem.
- Profit!
What a shame the tech industry is becomming.CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
"IronPort claims its customers are not spammers but legitimate marketers."
To me, any marketing related mail is spam. Another user may want to be marketed things that he is interested in, but not me, and I suspect the same of most users of any type of anti-spam solution.
Don't Tread on Me
The reason oil companies do research on non-oil fuel is to get a patent on those things and prevent anyone else from using them.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
When it's something like file sharing, everybody's keen to jump on the "don't blame the technology" bandwagon. After all, file sharing can be used legitimately, right?
How is this any different? There are legitimate needs to send bulk mail aren't there? It's not only used by spammers is it?
The only difference I can see is that spam is something techies collectively hate, and copyright is something a lot of people are ambivelant about. Let's be fair and apply the same standards! Arguments don't stand or fall based upon whether we like the people involved.
IronPort isn't "buying", they bought SpamCop back in June.
Bonded Sender is a product totally distinct from SpamCop.
The poster's comments (which could be you AC), doesn't make it clear that Mr. Haight's comments are specifically and only about the separate Bonded Sender concept/product. The comment was not about SpamCop.
That's why I posted. The comment isn't directed towards SpamCop. Julian Haight still runs it. The registry is still fed by regular users. I'm try to help clear up the FUD towards SpamCop being lumped in with Bonded Sender, like you're trying to do in your reply to my post.
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Have you read the Moderation Guidelines Addendum
Specially at M$ where its not enough to M$ to win but YOU have to lose.
The only thing I'm happy about is that even Bill Gates will eventually die, just like the poorest Afghani. There is some comfort in that. Nobody lasts for ever.
But if there is an after-life, I hope he has to use his own products to run a support-site for his own products for the rest of eternity.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Nonsense. The reason they do research is because they are actually "energy" companies. They're not particularly emotionally attached to black goo, and couldn't care less what they sell you to collect their dollars. They just want to be sure they're the one selling it to you.
If one of them came up with a way to supply that really was cheaper and more effective than hauling around black goo, they'd be more than happy to blow the "oil" companies right off the stock exchange by selling their new product.
File the parent with the "oil companies suppress the 200 mpg carbuetor" urban legends over at Snopes.
Yes, because only spammers send high volume email in a short period of time.
Senderbase.org is an invaluable site for fighting spam, not a way to send junk email; it is a scourge for spam factories.
Larry
It's a database that identifies high-volume email sources. So you could say Senderbase is pretty much neutral.
These are also the people who came up with Bonded Sender - a whitelist with an economic incentive to keep senders honest. So they're hardly new to the anti-spam world.
The controversy seems to be over IronPort's hardware: they sell mail servers. Big friggin' whoop.
Ironport's website mentions transaction confirmations as one of the uses, and that is certainly legit... when I order stuff online, I like to get an email confirming it, telling me it's been shipped, ect.
There are legitimate advertising emails. I buy alot of electronics, so I regularly get emails from companies I've bought stuff from in the past, and I'm glad I have - they have alerted me to some good sales.
To me, there is a huge difference from me getting an email from Compgeeks, TigerDirect, eCost, or another company that I've bought stuff from (and could opt out of if I want to) and getting emails to BUY DISCOUNT VIAGRA, or MEET CHRISTIAN SINGLES, or the like. If IronPort is doing the former, then that's fine by me. If the companies are using their stuff to do the latter, then there is a problem
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