NWN - Hordes of the Underdark in Stores

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NWN - Hordes of the Underdark in Stores

Posted by michael on Thursday December 4, 2003 @03:58PM from the holiday-game-season-now-underway dept.

morcego writes "BioWare has done it again. Another expansion pack for Neverwinter Nights has been released. This time, it's Hordes of the Underdark, in case you haven't been following. Reviews are already available, including it being rated 4.5/5 on GamesDomain. Atari (the publisher) also have a press release about it."

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Playing it now! by katpurz · 2003-12-04 16:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

More camera control...finally Small level compared to previous expansion or original module, but still fun... Mostly a developers/builders set of tiles/creatures.. One of the funnest games (NWN) I've played in years...
yes! by machine+of+god · 2003-12-04 16:05 · Score: 1, Interesting

I absolutely love this game. I think it's the whole D&D type genre that does it for me (I've never actually played with a pencil and paper though). The thing that does kind of get me down is the camera angles. I much prefer the way morrowind was done. The graphics in NWN have better resolution, but morrowind was just stunning. It's too bad they can't mix the two.

What I really wish is that someone would make an ungodly beautiful game that's made with multiprocessor machines.

*drools*
Anyone disappointed at NWN by Brian_Ellenberger · 2003-12-04 16:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

Was anyone else disappointed at NWN? I haven't played any of the expansions, but I found the original game lacking in many ways to BG and Torment. You can definitely tell that Black Isle's story telling abilities are sorely missed. It never seemed to draw you in or give you any "cool" story experiences.

Secondly, the henchmen were utterly lacking. Part of the fun of the Infinite Engine games were the companions. I loved the companion interactions and definitely made the store much more enjoyable and meaningful. It wasn't just that you beat some badguy, but you had a journey. NWN henchmen seemed like a hack. Something bolted on as to not make it Diablo

Third, the tile engine was way too obvious. In many ways the Infinity Engines looked better. How many random identical looking caves can someone go through?

Lastly, the fights sucked. Mostly slashing weak monsters and an occasional boss. Of course, with only two companions there is only so much you can do.

I do think Bioware redeemed themselves with Knights of the Old Republic. While still a bit contrived, they have improved in their story telling and the combat and companion systems are greatly improved.
Brian Ellenberger
1. Re:Anyone disappointed at NWN by darxyde · 2003-12-04 20:47 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  It just seemed like a typical D&D game (read: FedEx Sim) to me. Suped up, of course with a snazzy 3D engine and the all powerful 3rd Edition Rules. Fundamentally it wasn't any different from *any* other Forgotten Realms game released on PC (or on the tabletop for that matter). I got more enjoyment out of the goldbox sets of the 90's like Pools of Radiance, Savage Frontier and (Dragonlance) Dark Queen of Krynn. The linear nature of the story lines and the primary target audience (13 year olds ;) doesn't really make me say 'wow i'm excited about this game' anymore...
  
  Times have changed. D&D has not.
  
  Baldurs Gate was an epic story and and exceptional game, with weeks worth of gameplay. Tactically, the battles were far superior to NWN and really gave you a sense of ownership of the characters; Even though 83% of the party were just NPC's.
  It kept me hooked for months, through all the expansion packs, and the supreme smugness I felt when my character chose godhood and was reviled by the universe is something I have never felt in any other D&D game.
  NWN seemed more aimed to multiplay than the dismal SP (single player) experience (which I still haven't bothered completing). Rather than doing a poor job on the SP game in the first iteration, more time should have been spent on adding feature sets to the scripting language and world development tools. Get people hooked on the interface, get them modding like crazy, then show them how it's done properly and wow them with the expansions.
  
  Just some thoughts, but yeah, i agree... NWN sucked arse.
  
  --
  Hey relax fella, you need a rest, guy.
2. Re:Anyone disappointed at NWN by Jugalator · 2003-12-04 22:08 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  You can definitely tell that Black Isle's story telling abilities are sorely missed. It never seemed to draw you in or give you any "cool" story experiences.
  
  Agree. The BG1/2 (+ Throne of Bhaal) were beautifully told and had an excellent story to tell as well.
  
  NWN henchmen seemed like a hack. Something bolted on as to not make it Diablo
  
  Agree that NWN henchmen, even in HotU, isn't as interactive as before. They still feel a bit too much like AI drones you can talk to and give orders to. There *is* one option to say "I want to talk with you" (doh!), so there was some effort spent in making them more human, but I don't feel it's enough. It still feels too much like "oh, we can't just let these be like bots following you around, we need something more... lets give them a choice to speak with them".
  
  Third, the tile engine was way too obvious. In many ways the Infinity Engines looked better. How many random identical looking caves can someone go through?
  
  Agree, but I'm afraid that's necessary to not have players need to *draw* entire, huge, 4096x4096 images for their campaigns. This was actually how the Infinity Engine games worked, but it would make campaign building a bit too annoying for NWN. Of course, that makes comparing a BG2 map to an NWN map like comparing an oil painting to a construction with Lego blocks. I guess it's a trade off they made in order to make campaign creation quicker.
  
  Lastly, the fights sucked. Mostly slashing weak monsters and an occasional boss. Of course, with only two companions there is only so much you can do.
  
  I agree that the whole thing about leaving behind the party system is the most fatal flaw in NWN. :-( I simply can not understand why it was done. Of course BioWare could restrict multiplayer games to one controlled character, but think about single player gameplay! Not only this, but there are extreme restrictions to the amount of summons too. Why!? The D&D rules were *balanced* for these facts (party and summons). Just removing all this will either a) put severe limits on what campaigns you can do, b) force changes to the rules, or c) make it necessary to give players uber items in order to survive. I think this was apparent especially in the official campaign in NWN.
  
  --
  Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
3. Re:Anyone disappointed at NWN by arth1 · 2003-12-05 02:01 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Was anyone else disappointed at NWN? I haven't played any of the expansions, but I found the original game lacking in many ways to BG and Torment. You can definitely tell that Black Isle's story telling abilities are sorely missed. It never seemed to draw you in or give you any "cool" story experiences.
  
  I agree. One thing that's sorely missing is to be immersed in dialogs. Sure, there's dialogs, of sorts, but it's a "click all choices in turn" interface, and not something where every choice limits what choices you get later on.
  Something that drew you even more into BG (and to smaller extent, BGII) was the audible speech that often occurred. All the way from the first "Hi, I'm Imoen!" and "Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!" to how people in your party would randomly talk to each other -- bantering, trading insults, or even flirting.
  It all lent credibility to the NPCs and the overall athmosphere. BGII didn't do as well as the original, but was still WAY better than NWN.
  
  Third, the tile engine was way too obvious. In many ways the Infinity Engines looked better. How many random identical looking caves can someone go through?
  
  It also suffers from the Quake frame rate improvisation syndrome -- darkness. By turning everything darker, you have to render less, and can make the game halfway playable with a mere $500 CPU and $300 graphics card upgrade. Then skew the midtones in the final result towards blindingly white and yellow, to give the impression that it's not really that dark.
  Well, it is. This is one game that doesn't look a bit better in 32-bit than 16-bit colour, due to the lack of tones and high and harsh contrast.
  
  Temple of Elemental Evil is something in-between, where the developers at least have TRIED getting some of the athmosphere from Baldur's Gate in, while still allowing much of the 3D and advanced features of Neverwinter Nights. Unfortunately, it's just as buggy as their other D&D flop -- Pools of Radiance. Even patched. To the point that it crashes instantly every time I try to have my party cast more than two spells at a time.
  
  It's back to nethack and moria for me, unless I give BGII SoA a second try. It was quite frankly boring compared to the original BG, but compared to the latest offerings, at least it has *some* depth to it.
  
  Regards,
  --
  *Art
Does anyone else find these games a bit linear? by God+Hates+Liberals · 2003-12-04 16:34 · Score: 5, Interesting

I really enjoyed Neverwinter's game engine, and found it expounded upon all others, but storyline still hasn't evolved beyond 'pick the response which you think will lead to another exchange between this character'

They throw Alignment in there, and then give you 'good' and 'evil' roles to play, which consist basically of:

Good? Offer to do everything for free, see most of the game.

Evil? Push for a bit of profit in every encounter, get shut out about a third of the time. Miss that much of the game.

You'll find me buying the expansion pack where player's choices are the axial decision in gameplay, not the plot-designer's.
Why still no DVD? by inteller · 2003-12-04 16:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

I have Baldur's gate on DVD......what a fucking relief to never have to change the CDs! How come they haven't done that since then? If they packed all the expansions onto one DVD I'd buy it....till then I'll pass.
1. Re:Why still no DVD? by m1chael · 2003-12-04 17:08 · Score: 0, Interesting
  
  because i dont have a dvd drive. im sorry, im the only one who doesnt have one so they thought "put it on cd so everyone can play it". but i dont play it either, im very very sorry.
  
  --
  I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
I have commented on NWN earlier... by Jugalator · 2003-12-04 21:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

... and that was some negative remarks that quickly became considered as flames by NWN zealots. :-)

So I'd just like to say that HotU seems to be great! In the end, after these two (?) years, BioWare has produced a VERY feature rich system for creating campaigns. I haven't played it for long, but already noticed lots of new major features in the Toolset:

- Skies depending on tileset
- Robes realistically flowing as the character wearing them walks around
- Beholders, mindflayers, dracoliches, even OOZE :-D (with a beautiful model with skeleton parts floating inside its body)
- Weapon and armor crafting, potion brewing, oh my...
- Support for epic levels, with epic feats and all
- Lots of new prestige classes
- Attachable demon/angel/dragon/butterfly/bird wings to characters, attachable tails of several variations as well. Making cool celestial, demonic and draconic humanoids just became so much easier.

--
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Source Control by haystor · 2003-12-05 03:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

What I'm looking for is something that would help me work with multiple people on the same project. I'm accustomed to using CVS or similar all the time, is there anything similar for NWN?

I lost a lot of interest when I was told the solution was basically a design by contract and people essentially worked on zones separate from each other. This gives each person a vertical slice of the world. I'd like a horizontal slice where I could do coding someone else do mapping, someone else do dialog...etc.

This is the one aspect of the development that fell short, and that I'd like to see in some future game. Make the tools assuming that several people will be working on it at once and using source control.

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t